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Written by gid on 02.07.2012 at 23:01
Sorry, am I missing something here?
Whether security were doing their job properly or not is irrelevant. A kid died from injuries he got while being thrown off the stage. Sure, the guy was a dick for rushing up onto the stage three times. Sure, he shouldn't have been there. But whichever way you cut it, someone threw him off that stage and that ended up costing the kid his life. It's pretty harsh to say the kid had it coming to him. If people deserved to die for being a tool there'd be none of us left.
So yeah, the police are looking into whether Randy played a part in it. If he did, then he should bear that responsibility.
Well, Have you heard what Happened to Dimebag? i know everyone is bringing it up, but it has happened, So you can't really say the kid didn't have it coming (being thrown offstage)and if you watch the video, randy hardly touches the kid, it was all the security guard. |
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Written by gid on 02.07.2012 at 23:01
It's pretty harsh to say the kid had it coming to him.
Well, I don't mean he had death coming to him, that's just ludicrous! Nobody deserves that for jumping on stage to have a good time! It's tragic what happened to him, but there are risks when you choose to go someplace you aren't meant to be, especially if you had been warned 3 times. If he hadn't been pushed off, who knows if security or crew might've gotten violent with him, or if he accidentally knocks something over on himself or the band, etc. He had some form of harm coming to him, and unfortunately for him, that's exactly what he got. It's such a shame really. |
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| For the record, that video that Joe posted isn't of the actual incident being talked about. It was a fan throwing at the same show, but not the one that resulted in a death. It's just being shown to show the behavior of Randy and the security at the show. |
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Written by Void Eater on 03.07.2012 at 06:35
For the record, that video that Joe posted isn't of the actual incident being talked about. It was a fan throwing at the same show, but not the one that resulted in a death. It's just being shown to show the behavior of Randy and the security at the show.
...
well then... |
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 gid - 03.07.2012 at 10:40
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Written by BoxCar Willy on 03.07.2012 at 03:17
Well, Have you heard what Happened to Dimebag? i know everyone is bringing it up, but it has happened, So you can't really say the kid didn't have it coming (being thrown offstage)and if you watch the video, randy hardly touches the kid, it was all the security guard.
You know how many times fans have rushed up on stage without the intention of shooting a band member? A million times more than the times someone's gone up and shot someone. That's like saying it's okay for me to maul people in the street, just in case they're a gunman.
Written by Loathera on 03.07.2012 at 02:13
It's kind of like if there's somebody on your property, you're allowed to throw them off. Or if someone hops your fence when there is a "beware of dog" sign, and gets mauled by dogs. There has to be a certain personal responsibilty with your own health. Not only that but it's not like he was just up there to headbang a bit, then stagedive. Look at the video, he was behind the drumkit. Who knows what he was doing. I'd rather security didn't take that risk. It's not like it would be hard to bring in a weapon into a venue, it's happened before.
Security's job is to keep the band members, crew members, and yes, the fans, safe. It's their responsibility to keep fans off the stage and get them off the stage. Not only for the bands safety, but for the fans as well. In this instance, the safest thing for the band and crew was to get the fan off the stage. Do you think they should've just let him carry on? What if he stumbled into Mark and bumped him offstage? What if he had a weapon? Why not let every fan go up there and hang around? I think anyone who's gone to a few concerts has seen some instance of a fan being tossed off the stage, or forcefully stopped from going onto the stage.
Absolutely I agree that security weren't doing their job. Absolutely you have the right to defend yourself. But you also need to bear the responsibility for your actions. If you beat someone up for being on your property, and they end up dying, the fact that they were on your property doesn't absolve you of responsibility. Sure a jury might decide in your favour in the end, but you still need to go through that legal process first.
Let's remember: the slowed down video that was shown isn't of the incident, it's just an example of how people were getting thrown off stage at that concert. If the eye witness accounts are to be believed, Randy tackled the kid down, held him to the floor, beat him up a bit, and then threw him off the stage. If that's true, then I don't care how frustrated or threatened Randy felt. What he did to the kid caused the kid's death. That's called manslaughter. |
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Written by gid on 03.07.2012 at 10:40
If you beat someone up for being on your property, and they end up dying, the fact that they were on your property doesn't absolve you of responsibility.
There are actually quite a few provinces and states that would disagree with you here. |
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gid - 03.07.2012 at 16:43
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.07.2012 at 16:31
Written by gid on 03.07.2012 at 10:40
If you beat someone up for being on your property, and they end up dying, the fact that they were on your property doesn't absolve you of responsibility.
There are actually quite a few provinces and states that would disagree with you here.
There probably are. However, the law that matters here is the law in the Czech Republic, where this incident took place. |
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Written by gid on 03.07.2012 at 10:40
Written by BoxCar Willy on 03.07.2012 at 03:17
Well, Have you heard what Happened to Dimebag? i know everyone is bringing it up, but it has happened, So you can't really say the kid didn't have it coming (being thrown offstage)and if you watch the video, randy hardly touches the kid, it was all the security guard.
You know how many times fans have rushed up on stage without the intention of shooting a band member? A million times more than the times someone's gone up and shot someone. That's like saying it's okay for me to maul people in the street, just in case they're a gunman.
You know how many times people have flown on a plane without the intention of hijacking it and flying it into a very tall and significant building (or buildings) and still I can't take my toothpaste in a carryon. Shit changes after shit happens. It only takes one nutjob to mess it up for everybody
Let's remember: the slowed down video that was shown isn't of the incident, it's just an example of how people were getting thrown off stage at that concert. If the eye witness accounts are to be believed, Randy tackled the kid down, held him to the floor, beat him up a bit, and then threw him off the stage. If that's true, then I don't care how frustrated or threatened Randy felt. What he did to the kid caused the kid's death. That's called manslaughter.
That video is one of the three times that fan went onto the stage (you can see the other times on metalinjection) and he never kicked or punched anybody. These false testimonies happen all the time. It's the same with every rumour. IF it was found true, I would be inclined to agree with you. |
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gid - 04.07.2012 at 00:50
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Written by Loathera on 03.07.2012 at 22:26
That video is one of the three times that fan went onto the stage (you can see the other times on metalinjection) and he never kicked or punched anybody. These false testimonies happen all the time. It's the same with every rumour. IF it was found true, I would be inclined to agree with you.
So let's wait to find out if it's true. I'm just going off what I've read on the matter, and I object to this attitude that the kid had it coming to him just because he was on stage. |
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Written by gid on 04.07.2012 at 00:50
I'm just going off what I've read on the matter, and I object to this attitude that the kid had it coming to him just because he was on stage.
All he had coming to him was being pushed off the stage, which is what happened. His death was purely accidental - and admittedly not deserved, even though I'm on Randy's side in all this. |
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Written by gid on 04.07.2012 at 00:50
Written by Loathera on 03.07.2012 at 22:26
That video is one of the three times that fan went onto the stage (you can see the other times on metalinjection) and he never kicked or punched anybody. These false testimonies happen all the time. It's the same with every rumour. IF it was found true, I would be inclined to agree with you.
So let's wait to find out if it's true. I'm just going off what I've read on the matter, and I object to this attitude that the kid had it coming to him just because he was on stage.
I don't think anybody holds any ill will to this kid. It's a tragedy. But it's hard to find fault in Randy. |
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gid - 04.07.2012 at 10:13
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Written by Loathera on 04.07.2012 at 08:41
I don't think anybody holds any ill will to this kid. It's a tragedy. But it's hard to find fault in Randy.
Not for me. If it turns out Randy was the one who threw him off stage, then Randy caused that kid's death. It's that simple.
Whatever right someone has to defend themselves, it doesn't mean they suddenly have no responsibility for their actions. This was a preventable death, whichever way you cut it. |
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Written by gid on 04.07.2012 at 10:13
Written by Loathera on 04.07.2012 at 08:41
I don't think anybody holds any ill will to this kid. It's a tragedy. But it's hard to find fault in Randy.
Not for me. If it turns out Randy was the one who threw him off stage, then Randy caused that kid's death. It's that simple.
Whatever right someone has to defend themselves, it doesn't mean they suddenly have no responsibility for their actions. This was a preventable death, whichever way you cut it.
Well we can argue until we are blue in the face, in my opinion, the "responsibility for their actions" is for everybody, including the fan. His death was preventable; by the security, by the fan, perhaps even by the venue. That is my opinion and ultimately holds no legal significance. But given the evidence that we are presented (maybe the court has other evidence, I do not know) I just don't see it. If he's found guilty, then he's guilty, he will have to serve his sentence in Prague, and grow even more bitter than he already is. And if he's found not guilty, then he'll probably write a song about it and grow more bitter anyways. |
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This stuff could happen to band... sometimes does.  |
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afu - 06.07.2012 at 11:46
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You know.... 'ere's another useless opinion:
I don't have any sympathy for the fan. I feel sorry for his family and the world at large, because he was likely to identify a cure for cancer. However, it's pretty much a given that spectators watch and the band owns the stage. Shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Since dumbass repeatedly rushed the stage and Randy's push resulted in his death, it's possible that he has some liability. I'm not sure if the Czech Republic recognizes self-defense as meeting a threat with equal or lesser force, but if someone comes at a person and gets close enough to violate their personal space with dubious intent, I say they get what is coming to them.
It's like my Krav instructor used to say: "Always say 'I was in fear of my life'". |
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| Unfortunately, from what I can see, Randy is liable for this fan's death - you can argue all day about whether the fan should have been on stage, whether security should have dealt with him instead of Randy, etc. but the fact of the matter is that Randy shoved the fan off the stage, the fan hit his head, and died later from his injuries. Sounds like manslaughter to me. |
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| Given the facts that we have access to at this point, it is fairly obvious that Randy is liable for the fan's death. |
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| Exactly. It doesn't matter what moral reasoning everyone argues, law is law... The fact is that serious injury/death was a potentially foreseeable consequence of his actions. The whole thing is very unfortunate though, for the fan and for the possible consequences this will have on future metal shows. |
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Lit. - 06.07.2012 at 17:07
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Written by jupitreas on 06.07.2012 at 15:51
Given the facts that we have access to at this point, it is fairly obvious that Randy is liable for the fan's death.
Well I haven't seen the actually incident, so i can't really say for sure, but I'm thinking that security may have "helped" Randy out? The certainly did in the other video. |
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| I thought I might stay out of this but then again it seems that there is a high possibility that Blythe might get punishment for this act, but it's not just him. I do pity the kid and see it as an incredibly unlucky chain of events, and while I don't want to take anyone's side in this I see that this will most definitely have consequences on metal concerts at the very least in the Czech Republic and the surrounding countries, and for some people it will only further the stereotype that metalheads are brainless gorillas at concerts and festivals. thus, crowdsurfing, stage diving and the likes might get banned |
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| Wake me up when the lawyers sort it out. |
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LOL if anybody contributes money to his "legal fund".  |
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Written by BoxCar Willy on 06.07.2012 at 17:38
Written by jupitreas on 06.07.2012 at 15:51
Given the facts that we have access to at this point, it is fairly obvious that Randy is liable for the fan's death.
Well I haven't seen the actually incident, so i can't really say for sure, but I'm thinking that security may have "helped" Randy out? The certainly did in the other video.
It is certainly possible and this new information might change the case... I'm just saying that the information that we actually possess at this moment points to him being liable. |
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Written by Valentin B on 06.07.2012 at 18:15
... and for some people it will only further the stereotype that metalheads are brainless gorillas at concerts and festivals. thus, crowdsurfing, stage diving and the likes might get banned
Well, we are. How many times have you been injured at shows? I have been, even when I tried to stay away from moshpits. And all those things should be banned - Dimebag was shot on stage, and now this kid died. It's obvious that accidents happen when people leave their good manners/common sense at home and attend shows. A ban should at least curb the number of those incidents.
As for this particular incident, Randy is liable according to what evidence we have. He didn't have the attention of hurting the kid, and yes, the kid was stupid, but he's liable. |
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Population control starts with Randy Blythe.
Blythe 4 prez in 2016 |
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Written by Milena on 06.07.2012 at 23:05
A ban should at least curb the number of those incidents.
Really? Divide the amount of serious incidents by the amount of shows and that number equals not enough to ban simple traditions like stage diving and crowd surfing.
That's almost as much of an overreaction as the United States arresting random "Iraqi looking people" on suspicion of terrorism after 9/11. Not even .01% of a population commits a crime and all of a sudden 100% of people who look similar are being arrested for having a certain skin tone. |
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| F that stupid kid. Why are people weeping for one knucklehead when 1000's die in an instant due to natural and unnatural catastrophes? Come on. And justice? As Eastwood said in the Unforgiven "DESERVING's got nothing to do with it." |
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Maldoror - 07.07.2012 at 12:25
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| Why do you call that kid stupid? Do you know anything about him? Would you react the same way in case your brother or friend is killed in similar accident? Everybody knows that it wasn't Randy's intention to kill him but he is still responsible for his deeds. I can understand that members of Lamb of God don't like stage-divers at their gigs but as far as I know nobody informed the audience about that fact either before or during that concert. Concerning possible self-defense, all the guys climbing the stage were just normal metalheads who had paid to see their favorite band, nobody was threatening the musicians or carrying weapons. They probably expected that security would push them off the stage but they couldn't expect such a harsh treatment from Randy. The videos you can find on the Internet do not show everything that happened during that concert. There are several reports released few days after that gig which describe Randy's behavior including punching fans, kneeling on them, pulling their hair, etc. These reports were written mostly by people who actually like Lamb of God and nobody knew about Daniel's death at that time. I believe that in case that it is proven that Daniel's death was not caused by Randy, he will be released as soon as possible but I don't understand why so many people sign petitions to free Randy without any investigation or trial. What should be the reason for that? Do they think he should not be treated like any normal suspect just because he is a famous metal singer, American citizen or just because he is a really cool guy? |
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afu - 07.07.2012 at 14:54
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| What about the liability of the fan? Does him acting in an unsafe manner have any bearing on his death? This whole arrest uses the same kind of reasoning that enables a burglar (in certain jurisdictions) to sue for damages if they get injured stealing your shit. |
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Maldoror - 07.07.2012 at 15:22
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Written by afu on 07.07.2012 at 14:54
What about the liability of the fan? Does him acting in an unsafe manner have any bearing on his death? This whole arrest uses the same kind of reasoning that enables a burglar (in certain jurisdictions) to sue for damages if they get injured stealing your shit.
Well, I suppose that you can call stage-diving "acting in an unsafe manner" but as far as metal concerts go it can also be called "quite usual activity". Some bands and venues tolerate this activity, others don't. It still doesn't mean that security guys or band members should not be responsible for the consequences of their actions. Everyone should be aware of the fact that if you beat someone up and then throw him head first off the stage, you can hurt or even kill him. I think Randy should have left the responsibility to the security guys and in case the band members really felt threatened by the stage-divers (I don't think that was the case) they should have interrupt the concert. As far as I know stage-diving is usually tolerated in the club where the incident happened and nobody warned the audience that the band which performed that particular evening did not approve that. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 07.07.2012 at 07:06
Really? Divide the amount of serious incidents by the amount of shows and that number equals not enough to ban simple traditions like stage diving and crowd surfing.
That's almost as much of an overreaction as the United States arresting random "Iraqi looking people" on suspicion of terrorism after 9/11. Not even .01% of a population commits a crime and all of a sudden 100% of people who look similar are being arrested for having a certain skin tone.
Paranoia is one thing, and what I've proposed is an entirely different thing. Maybe not banning certain traditions entirely, but increasing the number of security people at each show and giving them more responsibility would prevent unfortunate incidents from happening. I mean, look at this. It's ridiculous. Sure, the number of people that wind up dead or badly injured is not "significant", but every life lost is important, and there are minor injuries happening at every other show. As it stands now, metal shows are not exactly a place where you can go and not expect anything bad to happen to you. Why should it be that way? |
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afu - 07.07.2012 at 15:47
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I grew up with moshing, crowd surfing, and stage diving. I've also pummeled people for being pricks about it. There's a certain point where someone just needs a chill pill and it's usually about the time when I get kicked in the head or the pit includes psychotic, gorilla, meat head motherfuckers who think fondling women and causing severe bodily injury are good pastimes.
Did I mis-read that his third attempt to make the stage was the successful one? What part of being pushed back the first two times didn't register as "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't do that?" |
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Maldoror - 07.07.2012 at 18:20
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| Maybe he shouldn't do that and maybe Randy shouldn't get involved and leave it to security. Maybe we all should wait with our opinions until the investigation is over and its results are published. Daniel's death could have been caused by himself, Randy, some of the security guys or no-one in particular (just some stupid accident nobody could prevent). I just don't like that almost everyone is saying that the guy was stupid, asking for it, or even deserving his death. I also don't like that the same people consider Randy innocent and falsely accused just because they like his band. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 07.07.2012 at 07:06
Written by Milena on 06.07.2012 at 23:05
A ban should at least curb the number of those incidents.
Really? Divide the amount of serious incidents by the amount of shows and that number equals not enough to ban simple traditions like stage diving and crowd surfing.
That's almost as much of an overreaction as the United States arresting random "Iraqi looking people" on suspicion of terrorism after 9/11. Not even .01% of a population commits a crime and all of a sudden 100% of people who look similar are being arrested for having a certain skin tone.
It was actually "Afghanistani looking people", remember Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11... and most werent arrested, but they were wiretapped and watched.
I kinda agree with what Mora is saying, Metal shows can be insane sometimes. it helps when there is both a seated section and a floor section(to divide the poeple who do and dont want to mosh) but this isnt always the case with venues. I went to a venue where moshing/crowdsurfing was banned and enforced and everyone was bummed on it but it was still one of the best concerts ive been too. but I just think these things are to deep-rooted into metal tradition to ban them from shows and its what everyone expects. |
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| Guess what fools... stage diving has broken plenty of necks... and Malodor, that kid was stupid for getting on the stage even though it is part of "metal", I've never jumped on stage and stage dived so I guess I'm missing out on all the joy of spending the rest of my days in a wheelchair. RANDY is INNOCENT! |
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afu - 07.07.2012 at 22:08
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| I'm not saying Randy has no liability at all. I just feel like weighing it against the liability of the victim's actions makes a little bit of a difference. People in general always want to lay blame for the poor decisions on another person and both of them made poor decisions. It's unfortunate, but at some point personal responsibility comes into play from both sides. |
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Written by Machiavelli on 07.07.2012 at 07:55
F that stupid kid. Why are people weeping for one knucklehead when 1000's die in an instant due to natural and unnatural catastrophes? Come on. And justice? As Eastwood said in the Unforgiven "DESERVING's got nothing to do with it."
Guess how much quoting Eastwood will accomplish in a courtroom.
(nothing)
Also, most people seem to be weeping for Randy Blythe, not the kid who he supposedly killed. The band has continually issued updates so the public can spend their hard earned money on his legal fees. Not to mention some idiotic petition going to the white house.
And I'm seeing #freerandyblythe on the facebook pages of bands, banners of websites, etc.
Personally I couldn't care less what happens to him. |
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Written by AngelofDeth on 07.07.2012 at 20:22
It was actually "Afghanistani looking people", remember Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...
That was a jab at Bush not being able to differentiate between "all those Arabian countries". |
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Kamil - 08.07.2012 at 22:14
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Events with Randy Blythe - my top candidate for drama of the year  |
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Written by jupitreas on 06.07.2012 at 22:44
Written by BoxCar Willy on 06.07.2012 at 17:38
Written by jupitreas on 06.07.2012 at 15:51
Given the facts that we have access to at this point, it is fairly obvious that Randy is liable for the fan's death.
Well I haven't seen the actually incident, so i can't really say for sure, but I'm thinking that security may have "helped" Randy out? The certainly did in the other video.
It is certainly possible and this new information might change the case... I'm just saying that the information that we actually possess at this moment points to him being liable.
He is liable to a certain degree regardless of what the security should have been doing.
You'll notice he is being charged with manslaughter, not premeditated murder. So regardless of the circumstances, if he did in fact push the fan to the floor, causing his death, accident or not, it technically is still manslaughter. For this I think he deserves a lighter sentence, but a sentence regardless. |
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| Randy Blythe getting sentenced for this would be as wrong as those cases where a burglar sues the owners of a house he was trying to steal from because he got hurt in it. |
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Written by Bulldoggin33 on 11.07.2012 at 15:55
You don't want that kind of trouble.
Calm down cowboy - if you push a guy to his death you're liable. It just depends how liable they make him out to be that's worth paying attention to...
PS your country would never invade another one just to get a metal vocalist back. |
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He's fucking innocent. Get him out of there and back home. This is the most ignorant case I've ever heard of.
To Hell with the Cech Republic.
Don't make us come over there and free him our selves. You don't want that kind of trouble.
Oh and good job to the crowd for catching the guy. In America we hold our own, pick you up if you fall and catch you if your being thrown or diving off stage.
Idiots.:devil: |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 11.07.2012 at 15:57
Written by Bulldoggin33 on 11.07.2012 at 15:55
You don't want that kind of trouble.
Calm down cowboy - if you push a guy to his death you're liable. It just depends how liable they make him out to be that's worth paying attention to...
PS your country would never invade another one just to get a metal vocalist back.
Ha ha ha. "Maybe" the country won't but the people would and will.
Unless you and any other country haven't heard, the U.S. is constantly destroying countries and has been & will continue too for years to come. |
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Passivity is a weakness that will cause all to crumble.
SALUTE! |
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Fredd - 11.07.2012 at 22:30
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Written by Lit. on 06.07.2012 at 17:07
Legalstorm
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Written by Bulldoggin33 on 11.07.2012 at 16:14
Passivity is a weakness that will cause all to crumble.
SALUTE!
What does this guy think he's an Indian? What is he a god damn asshole, what the fuck is he doing? Not ever. No way. Now he's Johnny Hammersticks. Hammering away like he's, friggin, Tommy Noble. The hell's he doing? Thinks he's.... Thinks he's got it going bossa nova. No way, hahaha no way. What is this garbage. |
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Maldoror - 12.07.2012 at 13:00
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Written by Bulldoggin33 on 11.07.2012 at 16:03
To Hell with the Cech Republic.
Don't make us come over there and free him our selves. You don't want that kind of trouble.
Yeah, nuke them to the stone age!!! That will teach those Slavic bastards not to fuck with the most democratic country in the world. Who cares if Randy killed the guy or not. He is AMERICAN, he can do anything! 
Now seriously, I don't think that USA will invade Czech Republic anytime soon. There is no oil there.  |
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