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Timo Tolkki's Avalon - Announce 'The Enigma Birth' Album


Coming June 18, 2021, the new studio album from Timo Tolkki's Avalon, entitled The Enigma Birth. First single coming out on April 13th. Stay tuned. Cover art and tracklist available below.


Tracklist:

01. The Enigma Birth (feat. PelleK)
02. I Just Collapse (feat. Caterina Nix and Chaos Magic)
03. Memories (feat. Caterina Nix, Brittney Slayes)
04. Master Of Hell (feat. Raphael Mendes)
05. Beautiful Lie (feat. James LaBrie)
06. Truth (feat. Jake E)
07. Another Day (feat. Marina La Torraca)
08. Beauty And War (feat. Raphael Mendes
09. Dreaming (feat. Fabio Lione)
10. The Fire And The Sinner (feat. Jake E, Brittney Slayes)
11. Time (feat. Marina La Torraca)
12. Without Fear (feat. Fabio Lione)




Source: facebook.com
Band profile: Timo Tolkki's Avalon
Posted: 29.03.2021 by Abattoir


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Comments: 19   Visited by: 108 users
29.03.2021 - 20:44
DarkWingedSoul

Well, lets wait and see, hope its good.
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29.03.2021 - 23:22
skelator

Was it ever?
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30.03.2021 - 10:06
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Wow now he has money to pay guest artists whit out our donations, did he sold hos car or house something?
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
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30.03.2021 - 12:13
RaphaelThorne

Written by skelator on 29.03.2021 at 23:22

Was it ever?

Depends on your taste.
Sorry man, just saw the opportunity and I was afraid you'd think less of me if I didn't took it. But it really is a matter of opinion, though. However, in this case, we're on the same page. For me, this project only saw a couple of good songs and I'm pretty sure, in one of those two, my brain is tricking me into thinking that because of Elyse Reid's clip.

Written by Bad English on 30.03.2021 at 10:06

Wow now he has money to pay guest artists whit out our donations, did he sold hos car or house something?


Now, this is a completely new conversation.
Unfortunately, Timo Tolki's career is packed full with this kind of shady crap (do you still remember his version of Fight Club?) It really is weird how someone without money to create a multi-vocalist project is forced to abandon the idea, and suddenly appears with a multi-vocalist project fully recorded (and with the likes of James Labrie, Fabio Leone or Brittney Slayes, no less). It really does smell like he was trying to pull on something.
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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30.03.2021 - 22:55
skelator

Written by RaphaelThorne on 30.03.2021 at 12:13

Written by skelator on 29.03.2021 at 23:22

Was it ever?

Depends on your taste.
Sorry man, just saw the opportunity and I was afraid you'd think less of me if I didn't took it. But it really is a matter of opinion, though. However, in this case, we're on the same page. For me, this project only saw a couple of good songs and I'm pretty sure, in one of those two, my brain is tricking me into thinking that because of Elyse Reid's clip.

Eh, Gustavo....imagine my artistic interlocutor, that I fully realise that someone in the world will buy it. There is a huge market for "pop-metal" or whatever you call it, for me its just pop/rock. Timo has wasted his talent long ago, which is shame but thats they way he choose. It doesnt mean I will listen his products, but other will. Show-business, man.
----
Best Metal Albums of 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jaZJRBeBw

Best Metal Demos: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtsgSQjV44
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31.03.2021 - 12:45
RaphaelThorne

Written by skelator on 30.03.2021 at 22:55


Eh, Gustavo....imagine my artistic interlocutor, that I fully realise that someone in the world will buy it. There is a huge market for "pop-metal" or whatever you call it, for me its just pop/rock. Timo has wasted his talent long ago, which is shame but thats they way he choose. It doesnt mean I will listen his products, but other will. Show-business, man.


Ok, now I'll be the one saying something a little controversial, but it's a personal opinion so bear with me.

Like you, most of the metal audience that heard Stratovarius in the 90's - and I was part of that audience - still talks about Tolkki's talent as if Stratovarius's quality was solely thanks to him. Granted, he was part of the equation, but it is easier to write something when the guys around you are called Kotipelto or Johansson. He was the main songwriter but, in a band, every idea is adapted and rearranged to fit everyone's taste, way of playing and general feeling. And yeah, I still remember that shit hit the fan around Elements I & II and fans thinking those albums weren't good (I actually liked them). Then there was the Fight Club episode, he is kicked out and the band releases the album Stratovarius (this one I hated). The thing is, after his departure Tolkki never did anything worth mentioning, but very single Stratovarius album - starting on Polaris - was actually pretty good. Hell, Nemesis is easily right there with Visions or Destiny.

My point is, when you're good you'll prove it every time, regardless of peoples taste (and I can point lots of bands where I acknowledge talent but cannot listen to). Stratovarius proved they were good, Tolkki didn't.

Again, this is my opinion and you are welcome to disagree.

Cheers mate
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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31.03.2021 - 20:28
skelator

Written by RaphaelThorne on 31.03.2021 at 12:45

Written by skelator on 30.03.2021 at 22:55


Eh, Gustavo....imagine my artistic interlocutor, that I fully realise that someone in the world will buy it. There is a huge market for "pop-metal" or whatever you call it, for me its just pop/rock. Timo has wasted his talent long ago, which is shame but thats they way he choose. It doesnt mean I will listen his products, but other will. Show-business, man.


Ok, now I'll be the one saying something a little controversial, but it's a personal opinion so bear with me....


Thats fine, thats fine, no conflict in here...
I am not agree with your praising post-Tolkki Stratovarius times, but three albums with him (dull Element 1, barely average Elements 2 and terrible self-titled) proofed at that time there was something rotten inside the band. Was it Kotipelto ego, Tolkki mental problems or the band just burned out, I dont care. What I'm saying is that when you compare Avalon to quite good solo album from 1994, its like an abyss, everything he recorded since there like Saana (yuk), Avalon or Chaos Magic is just pop/rock. If you like it, fine, but its not for me...
Revolution Renaissance? Acceptable as pale copy of Stratovarius glorious years.

Cheers
----
Best Metal Albums of 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jaZJRBeBw

Best Metal Demos: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtsgSQjV44
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31.03.2021 - 20:31
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by RaphaelThorne on 30.03.2021 at 12:13



Now, this is a completely new conversation.
Unfortunately, Timo Tolki's career is packed full with this kind of shady crap (do you still remember his version of Fight Club?) It really is weird how someone without money to create a multi-vocalist project is forced to abandon the idea, and suddenly appears with a multi-vocalist project fully recorded (and with the likes of James Labrie, Fabio Leone or Brittney Slayes, no less). It really does smell like he was trying to pull on something.


I am talking about this
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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01.04.2021 - 10:45
RaphaelThorne

Written by Bad English on 31.03.2021 at 20:31

I am talking about this


Yeah, I remember that. I was agreeing with you. It looks like he has a tendency to pull on that kind of crap.

Written by skelator on 31.03.2021 at 20:28

Thats fine, thats fine, no conflict in here...
I am not agree with your praising post-Tolkki Stratovarius times, but three albums with him (dull Element 1, barely average Elements 2 and terrible self-titled) proofed at that time there was something rotten inside the band. Was it Kotipelto ego, Tolkki mental problems or the band just burned out, I dont care. What I'm saying is that when you compare Avalon to quite good solo album from 1994, its like an abyss, everything he recorded since there like Saana (yuk), Avalon or Chaos Magic is just pop/rock. If you like it, fine, but its not for me...
Revolution Renaissance? Acceptable as pale copy of Stratovarius glorious years.


I actually agree with you on pretty much everything - the post-Tolkki era being the exception. And yeah, the reasons for his downfall don't really matter. My point was if there was ever that much talent to begin with. I don't believe you can go from hero to zero and remain a zero for 20 years and a shit-ton of records. He spent more time releasing crap then he ever did writing good albums. That's why I think the good ones were a fluke. And here the musical gender doesn't matter, as I like some pop things, some rock things and some pop-rock things, but I really cannot listen to what he does.

Now, again, this is our opinion and I'm pretty sure the guy has a steady group of fans that actually like what he does and that is totally valid. More power to them, you know.

Cheers
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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02.04.2021 - 14:56
skelator

Written by RaphaelThorne on 01.04.2021 at 10:45

Written by Bad English on 31.03.2021 at 20:31

I am talking about this


Yeah, I remember that. I was agreeing with you. It looks like he has a tendency to pull on that kind of crap.

Written by skelator on 31.03.2021 at 20:28

Thats fine, thats fine, no conflict in here...
I am not agree with your praising post-Tolkki Stratovarius times, but three albums with him (dull Element 1, barely average Elements 2 and terrible self-titled) proofed at that time there was something rotten inside the band. Was it Kotipelto ego, Tolkki mental problems or the band just burned out, I dont care. What I'm saying is that when you compare Avalon to quite good solo album from 1994, its like an abyss, everything he recorded since there like Saana (yuk), Avalon or Chaos Magic is just pop/rock. If you like it, fine, but its not for me...
Revolution Renaissance? Acceptable as pale copy of Stratovarius glorious years.


[...]I don't believe you can go from hero to zero and remain a zero for 20 years[...]

Kiske? Di'Anno? Tate? DeFeis? even Matthew Barlow
----
Best Metal Albums of 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jaZJRBeBw

Best Metal Demos: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtsgSQjV44
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03.04.2021 - 14:36
RaphaelThorne

Written by skelator on 02.04.2021 at 14:56

Kiske? Di'Anno? Tate? DeFeis? even Matthew Barlow


Bah, of those, only David DeFeis is actually known as the mastermind behind a band and, for the topics of this conversation, the only one I can maybe agree with you - and even then, only on the composition part of it, because he still is a hell of a singer.

As for the other ones, they were recognized as singers and in their own fields they still are on top.
If not let's see; Kiske, in his first passage through Helloween only actively wrote for Chameleon and Pink Bubbles Go Ape with the result we all know. However, as a singer, he never sang objectively bad. His appearances in Avantasia are usually top notch - the quality of the songs is a different matter -, his performance on Helloween's latest dvd his nothing short of irreprehensible, and even in the bands latest single you can point out whatever you want, but not that Kiske Lost his mojo. So, one down.

Di'Anno was one I never really cared for, as I'm not a fan of his voice. However, he was a good singer in Maiden but he barely recorded anything in the last 20 years, so none of us can actually say he lost qualities. He's just out of the scene.

Geoff Tate is probably the one that'll raise more discordance. I saw the guy live some 10 years-or-so ago, singing Operation Mindcrime I & II from top to bottom, and trust me when I tell you the guy is a beast. It was almost 3 hours of live songs performed on stage and he never showed any signs of weackness. Now, he was part of the team that wrote OM, Empire and Promised Land so, in a way, some of the composition that put Queensrÿche on the map was also his and he is also responsible for the bands downfall. However, and in this case this is what I'll defend regarding Geoff, he was known as a singer and as a singer the guy can still sing is lungs out. And again, in Avantasia, he still performs as if he is on top of the world. Summarizing, I agree with the composition part of it, not with the singing part.

David DeFeis, for me, is a guy that lives in shadows of the House of Artreus and The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, however I don't find Visions of Eden or The Black Light Bacchanalia as bad as anything Tolkki have done in the past 20 years. They're ok albums from a composition stand point, but David can still sing and, in that regard, I'm sad that he seems to have hit a roadblock but, as a singer myself, I cannot point him out as an has-been.

Matt Barlow is basically a guy that sings other peoples songs. He wrote some lyrics throughout his career but, like pretty much everyone that worked with Jon Schaffer, he sang what was given to him. He still is a great singer, though. I was never into his type of register, but he sang in Pyramaze's last album and did an awesome job. So I completely disagree on this one.

I think the main point here is that you're mixing a bands successes or failures with their singers' loss of qualities. The last part never happened and the first part must be divided by all the members of their respective bands. So in a failure, as much as in a success, the responsible are the band as a whole. Unless you're Nightwish, Ayreon or Therion, that have one single guy that writes all and is mainly a composer instead of a part-of-team-instrument-player. In those cases it's harder to come back on top when you go down because there's hardly a team to help you write. Nightwish's case, for exemple, is in my opinion the most flagrant one, where Thuomas not only seems to be uninspired for almost 15 years but also seems to have lost the capability to adapt his own songs to the singer he has - which, in this case, is probably the best and most versatile one the metal scene has to offer.

In some other cases, though, you have guys that simply fucked up their voices (Bon Jovi is an obvious one) and others that died of old age on the top of their games (Leonard Cohen being my favorite, as I've watched him live a couple of years prior to his death and there I learned how a single man can reach eternity - as corny as that sounds).

And after this long testament that no one will read, I need to point out that this is all opinions. It's my take on things. The tldr of it all being that you say they didn't do anything good in 20 years, and I say their vocal performances were awesome but the songs, in some cases, weren't that well composed. Although I wouldn't go as far as put any of those guys in the same plane as Tolkki.

Cheers
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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05.04.2021 - 17:37
skelator

Written by RaphaelThorne on 03.04.2021 at 14:36

Written by skelator on 02.04.2021 at 14:56

Kiske? Di'Anno? Tate? DeFeis? even Matthew Barlow


And after this long testament that no one will read...


Agree! But its only my honest opinion hehe
----
Best Metal Albums of 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jaZJRBeBw

Best Metal Demos: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtsgSQjV44
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06.04.2021 - 08:40
RaphaelThorne

Written by skelator on 05.04.2021 at 17:37

Agree! But its only my honest opinion hehe


No worries there. I wrote it for you and we both know you read it. It served its purpose.
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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06.05.2021 - 14:59
aeonnumb

Written by RaphaelThorne on 31.03.2021 at 12:45



Hell, Nemesis is easily right there with Visions or Destiny.



I understand that everything is down to personal taste but the above quote needs to be criminalized.. Stratovarius really started declining after Infinite (some people say Elements) and Timo's post Stratovarius stuff were meh and pretty much a reshuffle of his old stuff, but Stratovarius post Tolkki are the most plain Jane band ever. Nemesis in particular did not even manage to reach number 1 in the charts in Finland (yeah I know charts in the last decade mean nothing, but still). And this evident when you see their popularity these days. Stratovarius of 93-00 pretty much defined the european power/melodic metal. And honestly, as a strato fan form the early days, i m sad to see both Timo's and Stratovarius producing very generic music for the last 15-20 years.
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09.05.2021 - 12:52
RaphaelThorne

Written by aeonnumb on 06.05.2021 at 14:59

I understand that everything is down to personal taste but the above quote needs to be criminalized.. Stratovarius really started declining after Infinite (some people say Elements) and Timo's post Stratovarius stuff were meh and pretty much a reshuffle of his old stuff, but Stratovarius post Tolkki are the most plain Jane band ever. Nemesis in particular did not even manage to reach number 1 in the charts in Finland (yeah I know charts in the last decade mean nothing, but still). And this evident when you see their popularity these days. Stratovarius of 93-00 pretty much defined the european power/melodic metal. And honestly, as a strato fan form the early days, i m sad to see both Timo's and Stratovarius producing very generic music for the last 15-20 years.


Yeah, you are right, it is a matter of taste, so it can't ever be criminalized.

Now, you talk about charts - which has nothing to do with quality but number of albums bought - and lack of popularity, which is the main reason for the previous charts mention. So, let's be honest here, if the metal scene in general was dependent of charts and popularity it would be extinct long ago and we wouldn't be here discussing the sex of the angels.

With that said, my position is that the Elements weren't that bad. It's not consensual, I know, but that's where I stand. The self-titled one, however, was a joke of an album and Timo's Hulk-Hogan impersonation was one of the lowest points a band has reached in the still very short power metal history. These are the main reasons their popularity went down the hole. I still remember, in the beginnings of online metal forums, people in shock and swearing never to hear them again. Back then the internet world was a completely different thing but it was already walking towards our direction. Unfortunately that new status quo didn't help the bands popularity and they really were an example of what not to do. One could say the stars aligned to screw them over but they really positioned themselves quite well to take on the full impact of the blow.

Time is a good healer though, and despite the fact that they never got the amount of fans they had in the 90's, the fact is that since Polaris the band is giving us better and better albums. And this is not just me or the press saying, you can go to metal-archives and check the scores the people are giving those albums. Nemesis being one of the bands best is not just me saying. I can relate with the want for purism and the longing for those better 90's times, but I'm still a defender that we should give a fair chance to new music without pre-conceived standards, otherwise a band that evolves into something else will always fail in our eyes.

And this is valid for the ones that complain that Edguy does not play power metal anymore, or Sonata Arctica, or Nightwish, or Blind Guardian, or etc.
Those bands evolved into something else and that's only as bad as you want it to be. If we get stuck in our own wants and needs we might lose some pretty cool albums. With this don't think I like everything or that I have endless tolerance. E.g. I love Angra but I can't stand Fabio Leone's tremolo, Edguy was my favorite band for years until they released Rocket Ride, Nightwish has the (most probably) best singer in the metal genre but Thuomas changed the band's music into something that does not agree with his lead singer.

This is my stand at least. We all have our things, tastes, quirks and shit, but we should never criminalize other people's takes on things. If we all agreed on everything the world would be boring as fuck. So instead I invite you to hear Halcion Days or Unbreakable from the Strato's album Nemesis again and at least try to understand why people like that album. You might rediscover a newfound appreciation for a band that went to hell and was able to overcome its issues to come out on top, playing with a very commendable positive energy.

Cheers mate.
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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10.05.2021 - 14:34
aeonnumb

Written by RaphaelThorne on 09.05.2021 at 12:52


Yeah, you are right, it is a matter of taste, so it can't ever be criminalized.

Now, you talk about charts - which has nothing to do with quality but number of albums bought - and lack of popularity, which is the main reason for the previous charts mention. So, let's be honest here, if the metal scene in general was dependent of charts and popularity it would be extinct long ago and we wouldn't be here discussing the sex of the angels.

With that said, my position is that the Elements weren't that bad. It's not consensual, I know, but that's where I stand. The self-titled one, however, was a joke of an album and Timo's Hulk-Hogan impersonation was one of the lowest points a band has reached in the still very short power metal history. These are the main reasons their popularity went down the hole. I still remember, in the beginnings of online metal forums, people in shock and swearing never to hear them again. Back then the internet world was a completely different thing but it was already walking towards our direction. Unfortunately that new status quo didn't help the bands popularity and they really were an example of what not to do. One could say the stars aligned to screw them over but they really positioned themselves quite well to take on the full impact of the blow.

Time is a good healer though, and despite the fact that they never got the amount of fans they had in the 90's, the fact is that since Polaris the band is giving us better and better albums. And this is not just me or the press saying, you can go to metal-archives and check the scores the people are giving those albums. Nemesis being one of the bands best is not just me saying. I can relate with the want for purism and the longing for those better 90's times, but I'm still a defender that we should give a fair chance to new music without pre-conceived standards, otherwise a band that evolves into something else will always fail in our eyes.

And this is valid for the ones that complain that Edguy does not play power metal anymore, or Sonata Arctica, or Nightwish, or Blind Guardian, or etc.
Those bands evolved into something else and that's only as bad as you want it to be. If we get stuck in our own wants and needs we might lose some pretty cool albums. With this don't think I like everything or that I have endless tolerance. E.g. I love Angra but I can't stand Fabio Leone's tremolo, Edguy was my favorite band for years until they released Rocket Ride, Nightwish has the (most probably) best singer in the metal genre but Thuomas changed the band's music into something that does not agree with his lead singer.

This is my stand at least. We all have our things, tastes, quirks and shit, but we should never criminalize other people's takes on things. If we all agreed on everything the world would be boring as fuck. So instead I invite you to hear Halcion Days or Unbreakable from the Strato's album Nemesis again and at least try to understand why people like that album. You might rediscover a newfound appreciation for a band that went to hell and was able to overcome its issues to come out on top, playing with a very commendable positive energy.

Cheers mate.


the use of the word criminalize was obviously a figure of speech. The point was that things are always subject to personal taste, but the kupiainen era albums are super generic and if they had the impact of, say, Visions that would have been obvious, where in reality Stratovarius are gone over the last 10 years. The charts point was in reference that in Finland they always score a number 1 but the Nemesis album was the first one not to, which again shows the decline of the band.
I don't know if you are a musician or you know about music but just to show you how generic and bad the music in the album is, the opener's chorus has tha infamous I, IV, V, IV chords progression (you might have heard of it as the same 4 chords in pop music) which is a disgrace in my opinion and shows the level of the music in the album.
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10.05.2021 - 17:24
RaphaelThorne

Written by aeonnumb on 10.05.2021 at 14:34

the use of the word criminalize was obviously a figure of speech. The point was that things are always subject to personal taste, but the kupiainen era albums are super generic and if they had the impact of, say, Visions that would have been obvious, where in reality Stratovarius are gone over the last 10 years. The charts point was in reference that in Finland they always score a number 1 but the Nemesis album was the first one not to, which again shows the decline of the band.
I don't know if you are a musician or you know about music but just to show you how generic and bad the music in the album is, the opener's chorus has tha infamous I, IV, V, IV chords progression (you might have heard of it as the same 4 chords in pop music) which is a disgrace in my opinion and shows the level of the music in the album.


Don't fret over the criminalize thing, I understood your point and was just busting your balls.

Now, you went far and I really don't agree with some of the things you said. First you can never expect from a new album of power metal to have the same impact as Visions did back then. It's a completely different time. The spasm of attention has decreased by a lot, the gender's no longer in its infancy, there are thousands of bands now playing power metal in direct opposition as it was in the mid 90's, etc. It's just not comparable. If I recall, they were the first band from Finland to play power metal, now every Finnish band plays what some people call Suomi metal, which was highly influenced by what Stratovarius did, so if we really think about it the only original ones nowadays are Strato. Even Nightwish when they appeared were Stratovarius with an operatic singer (Wishmaster is almost a copy\paste) and Sonata Arctica were Stratovarius but faster. So no, the new albums will never have the same impact Visions did. Hell, I go even further and ask you which power metal album in the last 10 years was a game changer like Visions, or Keeper of The Seven Keys, or Nightfall in the MiddleEarth, or the first Avantasia´s, fuck or even Sonic Firestorm. The big carriers of the power metal banner nowadays like Sabaton or Powerwolf never released a game changer. I heard their first albums when they came out, and despite their undeniable quality (Primo Victoria, for example, is quite awesome) they never made the impact Strato or the bands that came in that period of time did. They're just very consistent on the quality of their releases and have fine gimmicks.

As for the charts, again, it's related with sales figures and not album quality, otherwise Britney Spears would be the best musician in the world. Not appearing in nº1 doesn't mean shit. Well, scratch that, it does mean something, it means their popularity was\is very low. Still popularity is not the same as album quality otherwise Justin Bieber would be the best musician in the world. You say decline and I agree with you if you meant the decline of Strato's popularity.

As for me, yes, I'm a musician and I still don't agree that a band is generic because it uses a generic chord progressions. First because a generic chord progression doesn't make a generic chorus, just like the generic 4/4 doesn't make a generic song. Cadence, feeling, time signature, tempo, instruments, lyrics, the mix and mastering, those are the other elements that influence a song that you forgot to mention, not just the chord progression. Progressive, Jazz, Classical, avant-garde, etc, can have that same chord progression and still be quite fresh and innovative. You can add a 7th to one of the chords and a 9th to another and have that same chord progression with a twist. With that same line of thinking just because Iron Maiden composed pretty much all their songs using the natural minor pentatonic, every other band that uses it is a copy\cat or unoriginal.

I'm not trying to change your mind, just giving you a different point of view. If you think about it and still don't agree with me that's fine, we can disagree and still be friends, but really think about it.

Cheers mate
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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10.05.2021 - 21:26
aeonnumb

Written by RaphaelThorne on 10.05.2021 at 17:24


Don't fret over the criminalize thing, I understood your point and was just busting your balls.

Now, you went far and I really don't agree with some of the things you said. First you can never expect from a new album of power metal to have the same impact as Visions did back then. It's a completely different time. The spasm of attention has decreased by a lot, the gender's no longer in its infancy, there are thousands of bands now playing power metal in direct opposition as it was in the mid 90's, etc. It's just not comparable. If I recall, they were the first band from Finland to play power metal, now every Finnish band plays what some people call Suomi metal, which was highly influenced by what Stratovarius did, so if we really think about it the only original ones nowadays are Strato. Even Nightwish when they appeared were Stratovarius with an operatic singer (Wishmaster is almost a copy\paste) and Sonata Arctica were Stratovarius but faster. So no, the new albums will never have the same impact Visions did. Hell, I go even further and ask you which power metal album in the last 10 years was a game changer like Visions, or Keeper of The Seven Keys, or Nightfall in the MiddleEarth, or the first Avantasia´s, fuck or even Sonic Firestorm. The big carriers of the power metal banner nowadays like Sabaton or Powerwolf never released a game changer. I heard their first albums when they came out, and despite their undeniable quality (Primo Victoria, for example, is quite awesome) they never made the impact Strato or the bands that came in that period of time did. They're just very consistent on the quality of their releases and have fine gimmicks.

As for the charts, again, it's related with sales figures and not album quality, otherwise Britney Spears would be the best musician in the world. Not appearing in nº1 doesn't mean shit. Well, scratch that, it does mean something, it means their popularity was\is very low. Still popularity is not the same as album quality otherwise Justin Bieber would be the best musician in the world. You say decline and I agree with you if you meant the decline of Strato's popularity.

As for me, yes, I'm a musician and I still don't agree that a band is generic because it uses a generic chord progressions. First because a generic chord progression doesn't make a generic chorus, just like the generic 4/4 doesn't make a generic song. Cadence, feeling, time signature, tempo, instruments, lyrics, the mix and mastering, those are the other elements that influence a song that you forgot to mention, not just the chord progression. Progressive, Jazz, Classical, avant-garde, etc, can have that same chord progression and still be quite fresh and innovative. You can add a 7th to one of the chords and a 9th to another and have that same chord progression with a twist. With that same line of thinking just because Iron Maiden composed pretty much all their songs using the natural minor pentatonic, every other band that uses it is a copy\cat or unoriginal.

I'm not trying to change your mind, just giving you a different point of view. If you think about it and still don't agree with me that's fine, we can disagree and still be friends, but really think about it.

Cheers mate


You don't need to change my mind and neither m i trying to do so. That is why these forums exist, for people to exchange opinions in a civilized manner like we do.
The charts point again was not in reference to absolute sales, i agree with what you say. Was in reference to their own previous albums that always managed to reach no1 in Finland but that album was the first not to, so it shows something doesn't it?
Also i m not advocating them to play like dream theater or start playing jazzy 7ths and 9ths but damn, not the 4 chords, that is just lazy.
In any case i ve been really disappointed by both stratovarius and tolkki for the almost 20 years now so i guess i ll stick to their 90-00 stuff which still sound killer today.
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11.05.2021 - 00:25
RaphaelThorne

Written by aeonnumb on 10.05.2021 at 21:26

You don't need to change my mind and neither m i trying to do so. That is why these forums exist, for people to exchange opinions in a civilized manner like we do.
The charts point again was not in reference to absolute sales, i agree with what you say. Was in reference to their own previous albums that always managed to reach no1 in Finland but that album was the first not to, so it shows something doesn't it?
Also i m not advocating them to play like dream theater or start playing jazzy 7ths and 9ths but damn, not the 4 chords, that is just lazy.
In any case i ve been really disappointed by both stratovarius and tolkki for the almost 20 years now so i guess i ll stick to their 90-00 stuff which still sound killer today.


And that's completely fair. Most of the times, if I want some Strato in my life I also recur to those same albums...and Nemesis.
But I see what you're saying about the chord change, however, sometimes the music asks for a very (let's call it) pragmatic approach with that sugary chorus and, lazy or not, that chord progression is extremely effective. I can even give you my example (and I'm sure it already happened to you) when I have a very catchy melody stuck in my mind and I figure out it follows that same chord progression I just don't fight it and try to change it just because. If I feel that's what the music asks for then fuck it, that's what I'll write. But that's my approach, I'm sure that if we all liked yellow the world would be ten different kinds of ugly.

Cheers
----
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke, naked of understanding.
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