Kosovo is main subject curently in whole world, they r independent country now, last one that become from ex yugoslavia
most of the EU accepted kosovo as new country, but some r again (russia, and serbia, maybe there some more)
so watts ur opinion about this


In my opinion EU and west countrys makin huge mistake with this, if they accept kosovo then they shoul give independence to Basks, cataluny, Scotland, North part of cyprus(turkish part) south osetia, chehcnya, etc.......
come i jsut wanna see your thought s

I agree with you about how the EU has these ridiculous double standards when it comes to national recognition. If Kosovo is recognized as an independent nation, then why not Northern Cyprus or Chechnya?

i reckon that the only reason the other countries haven't become independent (although i don't really know) is that they don't care about not being independent. so now we have a new country who's culture can reconised individually, and they can make there own desissions. so i think if they really want to be independent they should kick up a fuss (not with war mind you).

Sorry for my ignorance here, but isn't Scotland independent??

Written by DreamWeaver on 19.02.2008 at 04:47

Sorry for my ignorance here, but isn't Scotland independent??

They have a parliament or something along those lines - so perhaps they're semi-autonomous - but Scotland is still a part of the UK.

Written by Ernis on 19.02.2008 at 12:11

....why should we give a Christian land to church burners who'll defile art, cultural heritage and who defile sanctuaries and people's graves.....
period

Do you have any references that the EU would do such a thing? I'm curious, don't know too much about internal european politics.

My country is participated to reconice Kosovo some time around March, I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. Granted, they have every right to misstrust serbian goverment with prevoius vilation against the Cosovo autonomy and discrimantion against Cosovoalbanians. However, during the Cosovowar, Cosovo have been responsible for several terrorist acts, so by reconicising this country, you are in a way defending terrorism. Also, I fear that the serbian minority will be at risk and will suffer the same treatment cosovoalbanians have endured earlier.

I have a questions to dose living in Serbia: How does the serbian proposal for Kosovo's autonomy look like(in detail)?

Written by Sunioj on 19.02.2008 at 12:37

Written by Ernis on 19.02.2008 at 12:11

....why should we give a Christian land to church burners who'll defile art, cultural heritage and who defile sanctuaries and people's graves.....
period

Do you have any references that the EU would do such a thing? I'm curious, don't know too much about internal european politics.

Man, where have you been...? Its happening already, past 9 years... They destroyed countless churches and monasteries, most of which were more than 500 years old... I dont know fellow MSers wont care much about some church, but hey, thats lot older than USA!! And it is destroyed just because its Serbian... And monasteries were burned with monks inside, yeah.... So where is your EU?

But my biggest concern is that this isnt end of a sitaution, but beginning. Yeah, they got their independance, but you know what? There are more of them living near, outside the borders of Kosovo, in southern Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro... You think they wont try to do the same thing there??? Wait a few years.

And another thing is, it is quite funny, or sad to me, to see how whole world is drawing parallels between Kosovo and lets say, Northern Ireland. Well, how did Irish people came to Northern Ireland?? They kicked out English people, burned their hoes and settled there?? I dont think so...

And, yeah, how come Albanians are 90% on Kosovo?? Did you see explanation for that on BBC, CNN, or whatever?? Of course you didnt.
Well, I will tell you that EVERY Albanian family has at least 5 children, many of them even more than 10 children, that is one reason for their numbers... But, all that people must live somewhere, right?? OK, than we will kill some Serbs, and live in their houses, why not?? But of course, you cannot kill 1000000 people that no body knows. Thats where the best part is:
You have 2 ways:
1. You sell us your house and get the hell out of here
2. We burn your house
Well, I hope you can imagine the rest of the story, since Serbian army and police are banned since 1999, no body was there to protect them, and that is your 90%. Fine country we've got, yeah.

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 13:20

Written by Sunioj on 19.02.2008 at 12:37

Written by Ernis on 19.02.2008 at 12:11

....why should we give a Christian land to church burners who'll defile art, cultural heritage and who defile sanctuaries and people's graves.....
period

Do you have any references that the EU would do such a thing? I'm curious, don't know too much about internal european politics.

Man, where have you been...? Its happening already, past 9 years... They destroyed countless churches and monasteries, most of which were more than 500 years old... I dont know fellow MSers wont care much about some church, but hey, thats lot older than USA!! And it is destroyed just because its Serbian... And monasteries were burned with monks inside, yeah.... So where is your EU?

But my biggest concern is that this isnt end of a sitaution, but beginning. Yeah, they got their independance, but you know what? There are more of them living near, outside the borders of Kosovo, in southern Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro... You think they wont try to do the same thing there??? Wait a few years.

And another thing is, it is quite funny, or sad to me, to see how whole world is drawing parallels between Kosovo and lets say, Northern Ireland. Well, how did Irish people came to Northern Ireland?? They kicked out English people, burned their hoes and settled there?? I dont think so...

And, yeah, how come Albanians are 90% on Kosovo?? Did you see explanation for that on BBC, CNN, or whatever?? Of course you didnt.
Well, I will tell you that EVERY Albanian family has at least 5 children, many of them even more than 10 children, that is one reason for their numbers... But, all that people must live somewhere, right?? OK, than we will kill some Serbs, and live in their houses, why not?? But of course, you cannot kill 1000000 people that no body knows. Thats where the best part is:
You have 2 ways:
1. You sell us your house and get the hell out of here
2. We burn your house
Well, I hope you can imagine the rest of the story, since Serbian army and police are banned since 1999, no body was there to protect them, and that is your 90%. Fine country we've got, yeah.

I am aware of the ethnic turmoil that is present in Kosovo, I just wasn't sure who Viggo was talking about when he was referring to 'they', I thought it was rhetorical or something towards the EU, but now it makes more sense...

i lold when i heard that Spain and Romania do not recognize Kosovo. and i bet other countries which have bigger minorities will do the same. lame.

and i totally support Kosovo. every minority deserves at least an autonomy if not total independence.

Written by Damnated on 19.02.2008 at 13:41

i lold when i heard that Spain and Romania do not recognize Kosovo. and i bet other countries which have bigger minorities will do the same. lame.

and i totally support Kosovo. every minority deserves at least an autonomy if not total independence.

Ahm... I think you dont have idea what are you talking about. If that would be like you say, than every village in Vojvodina should be divided to at least 4 parts and recognized as independent state. That makes sense?? If you're gonna discuss about politics from what youve heard on TV, better dont.

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 13:48

Ahm... I think you dont have idea what are you talking about. If that would be like you say, than every village in Vojvodina should be divided to at least 4 parts and recognized as independent state. That makes sense?? If you're gonna discuss about politics from what youve heard on TV, better dont.

it's ironic how you bitch for the independence of Kosovo now, but back then in the 1900s you serbs were the ones who were asking for independence. ehm.. rebelling. ask your elders how it is to live as a minority. you forgot all about that for now. not having a national identity and stuff like that.
i personally don't give a damn, but many have committed suicide or simply left the country because of this. it is hard to deal with the fact that you don't belong anywhere.

so yeah. everyone has the right to live in a national state. it's natural to you that you live in one, isn't it? why is it so hard to imagine that the albanians from Serbia want the same then?

@K7
no dude Kosovo ain't serbs, it's country of kosovo albanians, in most then comes serbs mostly in north of country and some parts too, therse also little of bosnians and others...


Serbia is guilt why they lost Kosovo, and serbia is only country which celbrates battle that has lost,anyway like i said serbia give kosovo away, like they wnated to do with slovenia, croatia,bosnia they wnated for them self, no way,
The death Of Yugoslavia started at Kosovo back in '89 and now everythign has to finish there,

@FourSuits
well u r wrong, all of those countrys i mentioned up in posts did asked for independecy , specialy Chehniya, and north cyprus, im sure basks did too, northern Irland but no england the world controlong country don't allows that

@Hobbit Viggo
Estonian is doing what most of the EU does, reconice Kosovo,


and Serbia can't do anything now, they need to accpet this kosovo situationa nd continue to wrok and progress to joinng EU nothing else is left for them
and if they break democratic relationship with every country that recognite kosovo, they will have to talk only with few, and biggest loser will be serbia, cause about 90% of kosovo import is from serbia who will lose there

hmm... i would like to argue here but i wont since i know some ppl who post here and im prety sure they will be mad at me so.... bye bye this thread

Written by Damnated on 19.02.2008 at 15:48

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 13:48

Ahm... I think you dont have idea what are you talking about. If that would be like you say, than every village in Vojvodina should be divided to at least 4 parts and recognized as independent state. That makes sense?? If you're gonna discuss about politics from what youve heard on TV, better dont.

it's ironic how you bitch for the independence of Kosovo now, but back then in the 1900s you serbs were the ones who were asking for independence. ehm.. rebelling. ask your elders how it is to live as a minority. you forgot all about that for now. not having a national identity and stuff like that.
i personally don't give a damn, but many have committed suicide or simply left the country because of this. it is hard to deal with the fact that you don't belong anywhere.

so yeah. everyone has the right to live in a national state. it's natural to you that you live in one, isn't it? why is it so hard to imagine that the albanians from Serbia want the same then?

Well again you are talking about something you dont understand. You say Serbia was "rebelling" in 1900's. Well for your information, half of Europe was under Ottoman Empire, and isnt that normal for ocupied states to fight for freedom?! Serbia existed there already, and was occupied by Turks, and why not then to seek freedom? And Albanians on Kosovo arent the ones who were occupied, they occupied Serbian territory, and in the end, thanks to Western democratic world, they were portrayed as victims, and everyone is talking about Serbs killing Albanians, and who not other (which DID happen, but other nations crimes are easily forgotten it seems) Yeah, Im aware that its not popular being a Serb last 20 years....

And waht the fuck are you talking about minorities, they have everything they need, minorities in Serbia have more rights than in any other state I know, and I KNOW THAT, I didnt watch it in NEWS or on TV!
There is Slovakian village 3km form mine, they never complained about anything, they are good, hard working people, and they dont have problems with anyone, no one has problem with them. Dont preach me about minorities, I live in Vojvodina where are more than 20 different ethnic groups... And after all, if you dont like the place where you live, go to your nations country, whatever it is....

Written by Bad English on 19.02.2008 at 20:11

Written by buki of steel on 19.02.2008 at 20:05

hmm... i would like to argue here but i wont since i know some ppl who post here and im prety sure they will be mad at me so.... bye bye this thread

If you men one dude who likes cerno beli he isnt online here so feel free

@Ed N. Cyprus cant be independent country because its ocupation of Turky , but situation there isnt bad, turks and greeks live peacefully nowdays

i was refering to stalker,viggo,you and others... but nevermind...

Written by buki of steel on 19.02.2008 at 20:05

hmm... i would like to argue here but i wont since i know some ppl who post here and im prety sure they will be mad at me so.... bye bye this thread

Yes, I know perfectly how do you feel. And I hate myself for discussing about politics, because I HATE politics, and dont really know much about it. But it pisses me of to when I see some people arguing about something they dont know anything except they have seen on news somewhere on the other side of the world...

@K7
i now Cyprus ain't subject here, but if can't be independent north part should be united with greek part, and everything would be good

Written by Bad English on 19.02.2008 at 20:41


News, what news turn CCN, Sky news, Deutche velle, Greek news, Al Jazzzera english, France 24 english also russina news ewery tell diferent thinks,

I say news in general, since there are many people stupid enough to believe propaganda....

not sure about about new football team yet, Kosovo first need to become member of UN then they can ask for partnership in uEfa and FifA

@Stalker
yeah then i hope won't belive to serbian propaganda

Written by Bad English on 19.02.2008 at 21:21


I know about it but people usulay belive into it how much know true, its like video about americans and hungary

I know, propaganda war is worse than war with weapons.... Its shame how many things our modern "culture" inherited from Third Reich...

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 20:31


Yes, I know perfectly how do you feel. And I hate myself for discussing about politics, because I HATE politics, and dont really know much about it. But it pisses me of to when I see some people arguing about something they dont know anything except they have seen on news somewhere on the other side of the world...

Just bare in mind that living near the problem, the judgement is clouded. Have you ever talked to a cosovoalbanian about this for example? Or do you refuse to speak with your "enemy"? I'm not trying to defend kosovo here, they surly not without quilt, but neiter is Serbia. I'm sure you have heard stories of cosovoalbanians unjustly beaten and raped several serbs. However, the Cosovoalbanians have simular stories that serbs just kill for fun, raped their women etc. Considering the hate between these to groups has escaleded in a matter of decades, the stories isn't that unlikely. The problem is that both sides refuses to take part of their own guilt, stating poor arguments like "the started it" or "they are mere animals". Your situation is alot like the palestina/Israel conflict, or even better, the issue of kurdistan. My point is: national media is never neutral when it comes to conflict, you never backslashes your own etnicity or nation. If one newsmedia is consider "neutral" in the country, I bet that they use the report that the majority of readers agree with. If they live in an albanian dominated resident, they choose to report an serbian raid against an albanian village, If it's in a serbian dominated area, you of course get the opposite, an albanian raid. All this to stir upp the emotions and to not lose readers/listeners etc. I hope you get my point.

But remember that I'm not either in favor of a Cosovo state, considering that the nation have over 90 % Cosovoalbinians and only about 5 % are serbs. Do to the mutual hate you seem to have to each other, I fear for the serbian minority's safety.

Written by Torelli on 19.02.2008 at 21:35


Just bare in mind that living near the problem, the judgement is clouded. Have you ever talked to a cosovoalbanian about this for example? Or do you refuse to speak with your "enemy"? I'm not trying to defend kosovo here, they surly not without quilt, but neiter is Serbia. I'm sure you have heard stories of cosovoalbanians unjustly beaten and raped several serbs. However, the Cosovoalbanians have simular stories that serbs just kill for fun, raped their women etc. Considering the hate between these to groups has escaleded in a matter of decades, the stories isn't that unlikely. The problem is that both sides refuses to take part of their own guilt, stating poor arguments like "the started it" or "they are mere animals". Your situation is alot like the palestina/Israel conflict, or even better, the issue of kurdistan. My point is: national media is never neutral when it comes to conflict, you never backslashes your own etnicity or nation. If one newsmedia is consider "neutral" in the country, I bet that they use the report that the majority of readers agree with. If they live in an albanian dominated resident, they choose to report an serbian raid against an albanian village, If it's in a serbian dominated area, you of course get the opposite, an albanian raid. All this to stir upp the emotions and to not lose readers/listeners etc. I hope you get my point.

But remember that I'm not either in favor of a Cosovo state, considering that the nation have over 90 % Cosovoalbinians and only about 5 % are serbs. Do to the mutual hate you seem to have to each other, I fear for the serbian minority's safety.

1st - Its Kosovo, not Cosovo, in either language.

2nd - If youve read all my posts you have seen that I said Serbs probably DID commit crimes there, as it is with Albanians. But honestly, go read news, internet is full of them these days, did any of those mention crimes about Serbian civilians in kosovo war?? All I see is mentioning how Serbian army "brutally crushed 10000 Albanian rebels" and so on...

No, I didnt talk to any Albanians form Kosovo, not because I dont want too, but because I dont know any.
And when talking about this, Im very sad to see some idiots here in Serbia, even here in Vojvodina smashing the property of Albanians who live here (they are few), but that is mandatory, whenver there is a conflict somewhere between Serbs and Albanians, you have some idiot who will destroy some poor guy's bakery, ice cream store (albanians are known for making best ice cream )
Those kind of people are the same who did crimes in war, just in uniforms.... and they were on both sides, you see, I dont divide people on nationality, but on the matter are they good or bad.

And media, yes of course, there are lies on media, but for instance, I didnt need to watch any news in 1999 to see what is NATO doing, I saw it with my eyes, but Im sure they didnt show that in America and UK....

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 20:11

isnt that normal for ocupied states to fight for freedom?! Serbia existed there already, and was occupied by Turks, and why not then to seek freedom?

as long as they are not oppressed, no it's normal. there can be a coalition between the occupied and the occupier. but as soon as one party is oppressed then yes, they have the right to fight for freedom. that is why albanians had the right to fight for freedom. and that is why they deserve their own state.

you still don't get it don't you.

Written by Damnated on 19.02.2008 at 21:59

as long as they are not oppressed, no it's normal. there can be a coalition between the occupied and the occupier. but as soon as one party is oppressed then yes, they have the right to fight for freedom. that is why albanians had the right to fight for freedom. and that is why they deserve their own state.

you still don't get it don't you.

Wait, you say that Ottoman Empire didnt oppress nations under their occupation?! Man, go find some history books, if you think burning and staking people isnt oppression you are case for psychologist...
OK, I will go to your home, burn you house say you oppressed me, and ask a state for me there... I can bett you didnt even read my first post here.... You dont know most common historical facts and you come here to discuss.... Im vasting my time it seems...

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:06

Wait, you say that Ottoman Empire didnt oppress nations under their occupation?!

lol wtf are you talking about? when did i say this?

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:06

OK, I will go to your home, burn you house say you oppressed me, and ask a state for me there...

i know that the albanians are not innocent little rabbits. and i didn't say that. but since they are the minority, they are the weaker ones. also during Milosevic's government i don't know who suffered more, the serbs or the albanians.

and we should stop this discussion because you are bringing in your feelings towards the albanians here. and frankly i don't care for that.

Written by Damnated on 19.02.2008 at 22:19

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:06

Wait, you say that Ottoman Empire didnt oppress nations under their occupation?!

lol wtf are you talking about? when did i say this?

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:06

OK, I will go to your home, burn you house say you oppressed me, and ask a state for me there...

i know that the albanians are not innocent little rabbits. and i didn't say that. but since they are the minority, they are the weaker ones. also during Milosevic's government i don't know who suffered more, the serbs or the albanians.

and we should stop this discussion because you are bringing in your feelings towards the albanians here. and frankly i don't care for that.

Well no, they arent minority, they are majority.

So you say Im a racist, heh? OK, Ill kindly ask you to read my post where I quoted Torelli (its up there, on this page)
Maybe it will make you change you mind about my "feelings" towards Albanians.
Please note that I am of Serbian, Croatian, Hungarian and Slovakian descent, and Im proud of it, largely thanks to my mixed nationality Im well above all that racist crap you are acusing me for.... But its OK, Im not mad at you, just read my posts carefully...

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:27

Well no, they arent minority, they are majority.

So you say Im a racist, heh? OK, Ill kindly ask you to read my post where I quoted Torelli (its up there, on this page)
Maybe it will make you change you mind about my "feelings" towards Albanians.
Please note that I am of Serbian, Croatian, Hungarian and Slovakian descent, and Im proud of it, largely thanks to my mixed nationality Im well above all that racist crap you are acusing me for.... But its OK, Im not mad at you, just read my posts carefully...

albanians are the majority in Serbia oO.

racist? i called you a racist? lol. k, end of discussion.

In my opinion , a mistake , big mistake, this is the new pandora's box.
The best solution will be a huge autonomy for the Albanians (including police and education and finances) , or a huge autonomy for Serbs in Kosovo , this "independence" is a way for NATO to expand it's influence , if tomorrow Russia allows NATO to build it's rocket shield in eastern Europe , USA and EU will make the Albanians beg for a place in Serbia.
We all know why we(Serbs) are angry , Kosovo is the cradle of Serbia , for centuries Serbs were opresed both by the Ottomans and by the Albanians (as Muslims they were treated better then non-muslims) , the Albanians are pissed because for the last 50 years they were eating dirt because Tito lets them move in , but didn't give them any rights , nor education , peace is possible , but only through new leaders , current leaders at both sides are warmongers ( Kosovo's prime minister is a war criminal you know) , they all make promises of milk and honey.
Cut the "there is no peace" crap , my first neighbor is married with an Albanian woman. They lived in Kosovo , why did they leave?
Because she wasn't allowed to marry a Serb , but in here , the only Albanian in town , she is safe and has never suffered and discrimation. I'm not trying to say that all serbs are tolerant , but there is hope for recconsiliation.

Written by Damnated on 19.02.2008 at 22:38

Written by Stalker on 19.02.2008 at 22:27

Well no, they arent minority, they are majority.

So you say Im a racist, heh? OK, Ill kindly ask you to read my post where I quoted Torelli (its up there, on this page)
Maybe it will make you change you mind about my "feelings" towards Albanians.
Please note that I am of Serbian, Croatian, Hungarian and Slovakian descent, and Im proud of it, largely thanks to my mixed nationality Im well above all that racist crap you are acusing me for.... But its OK, Im not mad at you, just read my posts carefully...

albanians are the majority in Serbia oO.

racist? i called you a racist? lol. k, end of discussion.

No, I meant on Kosovo. Misunderstanding....
Well, you said im "expressing my feelings towards Albanians", if you meant something different by that, please explain me since I apparently didnt understand it right.