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Posted by Nimlot on 01.03.2008 at 12:51
OK, this is a very serious matter here! At first I was listening to Bathory - Valhalla and I heard this
"God of Thunder
Who crack the sky
Swing your Hammer
Way up high" - and I started thinking... "Where have I heard this before?" Soon I realised Manowar - Thor ...
"God of thunder, god of rain
Earth shaker who feels no pain
The powerhead of the Universe
Now send your never ending curse
Swing your hammer to crack the sky
Lift your cape so that you might fly
Back to Odin and the Gods on High
And leave this mortal world" - OMG... I looked it up and Hammerheart was released in 1990, 6 years after Sign Of The Hammer (1984) ... in Wikipedia it says that Bathory's Viking Metal was influenced by Manowar's Into Glory Ride and Sign Of The Hammer... OMG!!! is it really like that???



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Yasmine

Posts: 1485

Age: 29
From: USA

  01.05.2011 at 01:49
Written by Void Eater on 01.05.2011 at 01:44

I recall reading in an interview that Quarthon denied any Manowar influence.


I seriously doubt there was absolutely no influence at all.
----
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute." G B Stern
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum float u
IronAngel

Posts: 4365

Age: 25
From: Finland

  01.05.2011 at 20:26
The lyrical connection is pretty trivial. And it's lame to compare thrashy Bathory to cheese-era Manowar. But I think the similarities between the epic songs of Into Glory Ride and Hammerheart or similar epic Bathory are quite striking. It's nothing blatant, but notable anyway.
@gent_-_orange

Posts: 829

Age: 24
From: UK

  01.05.2011 at 20:59
Written by IronAngel on 01.05.2011 at 20:26

cheese-era Manowar.


Are you implying that Manowar had a time when they where not cheesey?
----
Alone he sits, A vanquished Lord upon an oaken throne, presiding o'er this conflict that chills him to the bone, for each tarnished blade that festers is a thorn thrust in his side and his pain alone bears witness to the folly of mankind.
IronAngel

Posts: 4365

Age: 25
From: Finland

  01.05.2011 at 22:46
I don't think there's anything particularly cheesy about their early albums, particularly Into Glory Ride and Sign Of The Hammer. Musically, anyway. Their image is another matter entirely.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36623

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  01.05.2011 at 22:48
Written by IronAngel on 01.05.2011 at 22:46

I don't think there's anything particularly cheesy about their early albums, particularly Into Glory Ride and Sign Of The Hammer. Musically, anyway. Their image is another matter entirely.


I gotta disagree there. Even though I quite like Into Glory Ride, Hail To England and Battle Hymns all are incredibly cheesy musically and lyrically etc etc. Althoguh they managed to become even more cheesy later on.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

IronAngel

Posts: 4365

Age: 25
From: Finland

  01.05.2011 at 23:09
Ok, in many ways they are. But still, I think especially Into Glory Ride and Sign Of The Hammer (with the exception of a few songs; actually more like 1/3 songs but let's be generous) are quite solemn in comparison to the rest of Manowar's discography. I don't know the first album very well so I can't say, but Hail To England certainly went the way of the cheese. I don't really know what should be the proper definition of cheesy, so maybe I should say "silly" instead.

In any case, I think it's pretty clear that Manowar are a relatively early representative of the kind of epic heavy metal that would later be taken into a different direction and another level by Bathory. I don't know if there was a direct causal influence, but I think they surely spring from the same tradition.

I'm talking about songs like Secrets of Steel, Gates of Valhalla, Thor (The Powerhead), Mountains and Guyana (Cult of the Damned), for the sake of reference. And I compare them to albums like Hammerheart and the Nordlands. We can't expect a very obvious resemblance because Bathory really did pioneer a very original sound, but I think some of the closest precursors can be found in Manowar's songs. Maybe it's just this delusion that's always haunted in the back of my head. I don't know if I was told so or if I came to the conclusion myself, but I've imagined/heard a link between the two for as long as I can remember.
Yasmine

Posts: 1485

Age: 29
From: USA

  02.05.2011 at 07:29
To men cheese seems to be like fat chicks, fun til your friend's catch you then you've to puff out the chest to hide what you were doing. lol
----
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute." G B Stern
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum float u
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9576

Age: 25
From: Canada

  02.05.2011 at 08:00
I enjoy cheese...Denying you enjoy cheesiness while listening to metal is a bit hypocritical. All metal is cheesy in it's own way.

As for the fat chicks part...Well, some folks are into that I s'pose.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
Yasmine

Posts: 1485

Age: 29
From: USA

  02.05.2011 at 08:06
Written by Doc Godin on 02.05.2011 at 08:00

I enjoy cheese...Denying you enjoy cheesiness while listening to metal is a bit hypocritical. All metal is cheesy in it's own way.

As for the fat chicks part...Well, some folks are into that I s'pose.


I get neither one of em personally. lol I guess I fail to detect cheese.
----
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute." G B Stern
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum float u
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9576

Age: 25
From: Canada

  02.05.2011 at 08:14
Written by Yasmine on 02.05.2011 at 08:06

Written by Doc Godin on 02.05.2011 at 08:00

I enjoy cheese...Denying you enjoy cheesiness while listening to metal is a bit hypocritical. All metal is cheesy in it's own way.

As for the fat chicks part...Well, some folks are into that I s'pose.


I get neither one of em personally. lol I guess I fail to detect cheese.

I guess it all depends on the definition of cheese. I think pretty much all metal is cheesy in one way or another, part of the reason it attracts the crowd it does. It's rarely a subtle form of music, so it tends to attract people with a flair for the dramatic. That dramatic aspect is part of what makes metal simultaneously awesome and cheesy.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
Yasmine

Posts: 1485

Age: 29
From: USA

  02.05.2011 at 08:18
Now dramatic I get and personally love!
----
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute." G B Stern
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum float u
Cuca Beludo
Account deleted
  18.09.2012 at 20:00
First two bathory albums are heavily influenced by the Motörhead dirt sound, the Sabbath's Atmosphere and the speed of Charged G.B.H, Discharge and The Exploited, as quorthon were punk in his early days and strongly disliked Hard Rock and Heavy Metal from the time (Van Halen, Maiden and so on...). Bathory also had a temporarily line-up, and the Drummer in the Third album, "Under the sign of the black mark" was a big Manowar fan boy I think his name was Pet, or something like this.... but whatever. He wasn't into satanism and these shit from early Bathory. He came with Manowar drum technique and showed Quorthon in the recording of the third album. Quorthon liked that technique and thought it were good for Bathory new music (Bathory was envolving.... UTSOTBM had not satanism, inverted crosses and Satan My Master shit). "Enter The Infernal Fire", from their third album, is obviously a bridge between the raw, punk influenced sound from debut and the bombastic, epic sound from Blood Fire Death/Hammerheart.

About the lyrics, well: As I said, Quorthon wasn't into metal, except for some Sabbath, Kiss and Motorhead. He did not took influences on manowar lyrics. He didn't wanted to write about satan his whole life, and he couldn't write lyrics that were famous at the time (Glam). So he started writting music based on what he knew.... first the satanism and later about the nordic mitology. And later about comtemporany and social problems, murder, violence and even hockey.

Sepultura can be compared here: First they started with evil and dark shit, later about comtemporany problems and later about the Brazilian bloody roots. They wrote what they were familiar with.




As quorthon once said: "If I were Japanese, I'd probably write about Ninjas and Feudalism".
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36623

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  18.09.2012 at 20:16
Written by Guest on 18.09.2012 at 20:00

First two bathory albums are heavily influenced by the Motörhead dirt sound, the Sabbath's Atmosphere and the speed of Charged G.B.H, Discharge and The Exploited, as quorthon were punk in his early days ".


I would say the first two songs he ever wrote and are featured on Scnadinavian Metal Attack and the first two albus are almost pure Venom rip offs (especially the first two songs on SMA) It is clear QUorthon was extremely influenced by Venom although he denied having heard the band at the time. Which imo is almost impossible since he did listen to metal and, like you said, punk. And Venom were extremely well known in those circles.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Dinruth

Posts: 228
From: Austria
  18.09.2012 at 21:12
Written by Yasmine on 02.05.2011 at 07:29

To men cheese seems to be like fat chicks, fun til your friend's catch you then you've to puff out the chest to hide what you were doing. lol


wise words .. I personally don't have a problem with a bit of cheesieness.. can be fun in music ..
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3721

Age: 27
From: USA

  18.09.2012 at 23:19


Meh, don't see it.
----
REPUBLICAN CAR!
BestMetalstormer

Posts: 3305

Age: 26
From: Vietnam

  19.09.2012 at 00:02
Manowar has the song Today Is Good Day To Die. As far as I know Bathory has a song A Fine Day To Die... could be coincidental or just theme idea copy or generalization ? : )
Vasil de Shumen
tolerant

Posts: 283

Age: 40
From: Bulgaria

  19.09.2012 at 21:10
Classic example : Manowar - Bridge Of Death (1984) -------->>> Bathory - A Fine Day To Die (1988)
Aristarchos

Posts: 763

Age: 30
From: Sweden
  19.09.2012 at 22:24
Written by Valentin B on 26.02.2009 at 17:41

Written by Introspekrieg on 02.03.2008 at 04:13

Written by ThunderAxe1989 on 02.03.2008 at 03:32

I can believe that. Manowar were pretty much the first band to address Viking Themes in their music.


Led Zeppelin - Immigrant Song (1970)

Quoted from Wiki:
One of the lines from the song became part of Led Zeppelin lore. The line, "The hammer of the gods/will drive our ships to new lands" prompted many to start referring to Led Zeppelin's sound as the "Hammer of the Gods." The phrase was used as the title of Stephen Davis' famous biography of the band, Hammer of the Gods: The Led Zeppelin Saga. The lyrics also did much to inspire the classic Heavy Metal myth, of mighty Viking-esque figures on an adventure, themes which have been adopted in the look and music of bands from Iron Maiden to Manowar.

i instantly thought about that song when i saw that comment, but extensive usage of viking mythology and stuff was something which Manowar did first as far as i know.

Have you heard the band Legend? They used viking lyrics already in 1979 on their album "Fröm The Fjörds". I don't know if Bathory was influenced by them, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least Manowar was influenced by them, since Legend also was from USA and played epic heavy metal. I don't know how big Legend was in the underground metal world back then. By the way, Legend's album is still great.
Cuca Beludo
Account deleted
  23.09.2012 at 00:52
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.09.2012 at 20:16

Written by Guest on 18.09.2012 at 20:00

First two bathory albums are heavily influenced by the Motörhead dirt sound, the Sabbath's Atmosphere and the speed of Charged G.B.H, Discharge and The Exploited, as quorthon were punk in his early days ".


I would say the first two songs he ever wrote and are featured on Scnadinavian Metal Attack and the first two albus are almost pure Venom rip offs (especially the first two songs on SMA) It is clear QUorthon was extremely influenced by Venom although he denied having heard the band at the time. Which imo is almost impossible since he did listen to metal and, like you said, punk. And Venom were extremely well known in those circles.


Bathory had at least 7 or 8 songs before Scandinavian Metal Attack... and some were already recorded on 4 track. About quorthon and venom stuff: Metal wasn't something too mainstream at the time in Scandinavia.... Except for some classics at the time, like Sabbath, Motörhead, Maiden and Van Halen. Venom were still young in 1983.... I think even the term "Black Metal" wasn't invented at the time, but I wasn't even born at the time, so it's just my thoughts. I don't know why Quorthon would lie about his influences, anyway, so I think I trust him.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36623

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  23.09.2012 at 01:02
Hahaha Bathory had n ever recorded anything before the Scandinavian Metal Attack album. Those two tracks were the very first Quorthon wrote and recorded. His dad even got him a place on the album.

Venom were at their biggest and most famous in 1983. They were featured in all the metal magazines at the time. Also in big publications such as Kerrang. Trust me, if one was into metal at the time one had heard Venom.

I was around back then and absolutely everyone listening to metal knew Venom
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Dentura
Shadow King

Posts: 1158

Age: 20
From: USA

  02.10.2012 at 17:54
They both have like viking/warrior themes sure, but I think Bathory was way more badass than Manowar (who always felt sort of silly to me personally).
----
...And so death to the falsity of thy former rulers. Thy kingdom of "heaven" burns in a field of fire, and Dentura is the one true God thou must yield thy hearts and souls to in absolute submission. It is his ultimate decree and will unto thee..

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