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The original post

Posted by Black Winter on 11.03.2008 at 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .



Page 32 of 32

Tcan

Posts: 8
From: Turkey
  29.04.2013 at 00:32
Nice thought that opening topic like this , i hope we can be helpful for whom interested , i would read previous posts later but anyone has questions about Islam ? i want to try to answer them
Tcan

Posts: 8
From: Turkey
  29.04.2013 at 00:39
Written by Rasputin on 15.04.2013 at 23:36

Written by Sinnercist on 15.04.2013 at 17:51

Written by Rasputin on 14.04.2013 at 02:22

I agree with you to an extent, however, the reason why Islam has exploded is because they are funded by various organizations to do so. The Catholic Church, CIA, MI5, Corporations...there is a lot of money to be made from wars, conflicts and reorganization of the Middle East. However, radical Islam is a big problem, and it is a problem that the West (USA, EU) does not want resovled, because they are making money.
I am anti all religions, but in the war like situation, I would back the Xtians, because they are lesser evil.


Not disagreeing, but only pointing out that Islam isn't exactly a favorable religion to have if one is striving to achieve peace and human rights. They seem to be the disproportionately bigger violators. Not a fan of organized religions as a whole, but often enough I can ignore the others; this one, not so much. I much rather deal with whiny Christians threatening to boycott rather than whiny Muslims threatening to kill, harm or maim.

No arguments there. I think a lot of Islam is allowed to slide because of the lobby, but that is just my reasoning, because I am still trying to fathom why the hell does USA and EU defend the Islam so much. They say that they aren't but they are.


what is disturbing you about defending Islam , do you see them as terrorists , i really try to understand i hope u dont understand that wrong . İs that so in every organization there are some peoples which seems like member but dont act as their organization leads. That is true that majority of terrorists in the world calls them Muslim but Islam doesnt include them in its borders. Killing people without reason is one of the (maybe the big ) crime in Islam , killing innocent ones is bigger . So please divide those forgers from real Muslims .
Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 522
From: Israel

  29.04.2013 at 16:45
Written by Tcan on 29.04.2013 at 00:39

what is disturbing you about defending Islam , do you see them as terrorists , i really try to understand i hope u dont understand that wrong . İs that so in every organization there are some peoples which seems like member but dont act as their organization leads. That is true that majority of terrorists in the world calls them Muslim but Islam doesnt include them in its borders. Killing people without reason is one of the (maybe the big ) crime in Islam , killing innocent ones is bigger . So please divide those forgers from real Muslims .


He's just using categories that are overly broad. It's pretty apparent that not all Muslims are terrorists, neither supporters of terrorists.
On the other hand you are too using overly broad categories (I doubt that Muslims has just a few religious authorities/leaders).
Some Muslim leaders tend to give different interpretations to what "innocent" refers to. Like [ur=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4] him[/url] or him, as if punishment for religious apostasy and heresy were not bad enough.
Some Muslims are terrorists just like some Muslims are traffic violators. It doesn't make them 'fake Muslims'.
It's not special for Islam to dismissed "western" morality, you will find religious leaders in Judaism and Christianity that say and to the same thing. The question is how they immediate and wider surroundings react.
----
‎"If you can't change your mind - are you sure you still have one?" - Twelve Virtues of Rationality
Rasputin

Posts: 142
From: USA
  29.04.2013 at 18:31
Written by Tcan on 29.04.2013 at 00:39

Written by Rasputin on 15.04.2013 at 23:36

Written by Sinnercist on 15.04.2013 at 17:51

Written by Rasputin on 14.04.2013 at 02:22

I agree with you to an extent, however, the reason why Islam has exploded is because they are funded by various organizations to do so. The Catholic Church, CIA, MI5, Corporations...there is a lot of money to be made from wars, conflicts and reorganization of the Middle East. However, radical Islam is a big problem, and it is a problem that the West (USA, EU) does not want resovled, because they are making money.
I am anti all religions, but in the war like situation, I would back the Xtians, because they are lesser evil.


Not disagreeing, but only pointing out that Islam isn't exactly a favorable religion to have if one is striving to achieve peace and human rights. They seem to be the disproportionately bigger violators. Not a fan of organized religions as a whole, but often enough I can ignore the others; this one, not so much. I much rather deal with whiny Christians threatening to boycott rather than whiny Muslims threatening to kill, harm or maim.

No arguments there. I think a lot of Islam is allowed to slide because of the lobby, but that is just my reasoning, because I am still trying to fathom why the hell does USA and EU defend the Islam so much. They say that they aren't but they are.


what is disturbing you about defending Islam , do you see them as terrorists , i really try to understand i hope u dont understand that wrong . İs that so in every organization there are some peoples which seems like member but dont act as their organization leads. That is true that majority of terrorists in the world calls them Muslim but Islam doesnt include them in its borders. Killing people without reason is one of the (maybe the big ) crime in Islam , killing innocent ones is bigger . So please divide those forgers from real Muslims .

I see Islam as the reason for another massive bloodshed in Europe, and most of the world. I do understand that in every culture/religion/organization bad people exist, that is true everywhere. My issue is that on the face value, Islam and Muslims are presented as these benevolent people, which a lot of them are, however, that only goes so far. Albanians for instance were the same way, nice at first, and then many years later engaged in ethnic cleansing and expulsion of all non Muslims. Same thing happened in Bosnia, and these were not radical Muslims, they were just Muslims. Islam is one of those religions, or ways of life, where in a snap of a finger you would go to war, regardless what you may believe. If your religious leader declares Jihad tomorrow, what would you do? Would you go to war? Or would you stay back and suffer the consequence of your actions?
Since you are from Turkey, I am certain you are familiar with the Ottoman Empire an its reach into Europe. Now, what is the difference between Islam then and Islam now? All of a sudden you are not conquering and destroying, now you are all of a sudden peaceful bunch? I don't buy it. I think that Islam has gotten smarter, and instead of an open assault and conquest, it is doing it in under the radar.
Islam is the fastest growing religion, and you cannot tell me that after the Muslims become a vast majority, they will care about other peoples beliefs or lack of them.
Tcan

Posts: 8
From: Turkey
  29.04.2013 at 20:57
Written by Candlemass on 29.04.2013 at 16:45

Written by Tcan on 29.04.2013 at 00:39

what is disturbing you about defending Islam , do you see them as terrorists , i really try to understand i hope u dont understand that wrong . İs that so in every organization there are some peoples which seems like member but dont act as their organization leads. That is true that majority of terrorists in the world calls them Muslim but Islam doesnt include them in its borders. Killing people without reason is one of the (maybe the big ) crime in Islam , killing innocent ones is bigger . So please divide those forgers from real Muslims .


He's just using categories that are overly broad. It's pretty apparent that not all Muslims are terrorists, neither supporters of terrorists.
On the other hand you are too using overly broad categories (I doubt that Muslims has just a few religious authorities/leaders).
Some Muslim leaders tend to give different interpretations to what "innocent" refers to. Like [ur=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4] him[/url] or him, as if punishment for religious apostasy and heresy were not bad enough.
Some Muslims are terrorists just like some Muslims are traffic violators. It doesn't make them 'fake Muslims'.
It's not special for Islam to dismissed "western" morality, you will find religious leaders in Judaism and Christianity that say and to the same thing. The question is how they immediate and wider surroundings react.


i looked at the video dont know that person but can say that in Islam there is something that in the way of spread Islam over the world which called 'Cihat' killing non muslim can be approachable but killing non muslims with other purpose are forbidden. we have to realize the difference carefully . also i mean from fake muslims that we cant see a person which just calls himself as Muslim and then be a terrorist , as a Muslim and blame other ones cause this. This is like this in every case,thing not only in Islam . But in the majority of world there is a thought that Muslims are terrorist or just the leader says in the video . We have to learn Islam's real rules and borders than speak about that .
Mikyz

Posts: 710

Age: 22
From: Lebanon

  30.04.2013 at 10:50
Before I start, I'd like to add for prosperity's sake, that I've a whole bunch of Islamic friends whom I love very much, so my problem is not with the people but only, and only with the religion's dictates, and that I'm writing this with the notion that I'm conversing with intellectual, tolerant, and humane beings. I'll start then.

Written by Tcan on 29.04.2013 at 20:57

i looked at the video dont know that person but can say that in Islam there is something that in the way of spread Islam over the world which called 'Cihat' killing non muslim can be approachable but killing non muslims with other purpose are forbidden. we have to realize the difference carefully . also i mean from fake muslims that we cant see a person which just calls himself as Muslim and then be a terrorist , as a Muslim and blame other ones cause this. This is like this in every case,thing not only in Islam . But in the majority of world there is a thought that Muslims are terrorist or just the leader says in the video . We have to learn Islam's real rules and borders than speak about that .


There's a name for that, it's Islamophobia, and if it exists then there is an incontrovertible reason for that.

If you look at the Islamic fundamentals, the lines that Islam draws are mostly irrelevant, and more than that in some instances are completely irreligious.
Let's start by the fact that according to the Qur'an and Ahadith that it's entirely permissible and even encouraged to slay non-Islamic individuals since they're looked upon as worth less than cattle, or at the fact that a man is allowed no less than four wives to satiate himself while the prophet himself was allowed, selflessly, a rambunctious nine, one of them ironically a child of nine, I'll add to that the (envious) notion that it's entirely acceptable to discard your wife every time a tiny wind makes a candle flame quiver. And if this wasn't proof enough let us not forget the prophet's eternal legacy of bloodied and gored battlefields, and lifetime achievement of spreading religion through violent force, simultaneously annulling hundreds of non-expansionary, private religions.

These are facts, no inventions, and they're but a few transgressions not of any other religion mind you, but of human decency. You can watch the Islam approved movie "The Message" for a vague but truthful account of the religion's nascence. I can find such transgressions in all religions, some are even worse in the Tora, and there are some though less drastic, in the Bible. Let's also all agree that all three religions have a different God, though a nonentity in all of them he remains the ultimate dictator all around.

I'm not an expert, and I might have exaggerated a couple of points but retrospectively (in my opinion) Islam doesn't seem a sound faith, and I'm ecstatic when I say that most Islamists are not True Islamists but mild ones which is why Islamophobia is mostly nonsense, and not because of the religious teachings themselves because if it were only up to the religious content Islamophobic would be the only logical thing to be, but all of use in the final reckoning are human, and human decency is inherent, and so it is with most Islamists, though why they choose not to ignore theological gobbledygook is a mystery.

I respect the religion from a distance as I do all, not substance-wise but rather because it holds the gravity of time and devotion, but I find it irreligious all the same as I should find all non-Christian religions irreligious.
I'm not critiquing the hierarchical theological trees, they hold no power over belief, even if they like to think that a flamboyant ensemble of hat and robe give them the gravitas of influence, it's rank illusion for the unbeliever, as it should be for the believer. And all of the religious treatise when disassembled will reveal pages of nonsense and discombobulation... up to a certain point only. Though I'm not trying to make any one person disbelieve anything he is not content believing in, I fail to understand the reason behind this blithe contentment. Who'd drink sand when there's water?
I digress, concerning the image Islam is getting globally, all of us should remember that propaganda is alive now more so than it was during WWII, and that there's a "Jihad" coming from all sides headed by oratorial, inveigling hierophants whose words should be as fascinating as sputum to all concerned. Which tells us that if you want to talk about Islam please read about them yourself and made educated conclusions based on sound inferences and proofed documentation.

Let's just say that in the finality of things, believing in oneself is the only reality, in analysis as in belief.

I don't like calling them Muslims, because it translates from the Arabic into giving oneself wholly to someone, in this instance God, which is true for all religions. Following that logic all Christians and Jews are muslims, but no Christian or Jew is an Islamist.

I prattled a lot, I hope I didn't come of anti-anything, that wasn't my purpose at all. I'm merely a Christian.
----
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone.
Gurth Bennas

Posts: 297

Age: 19
From: Iran

  02.05.2013 at 13:47
Fucking ancient fight is the main subject of religious threads.someone loves religion and another hates and this diffrence begins a stupid fight among them and none of them talk wisely. stop the shit and try to live together as humankinds whether you're muslim or christian or jew or.... .talking here cures nothing. in the end I must say that was my opinion and it was in my mind for long and here i could share it
----
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul

(One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them)
Monolithic
♠♠♠

Posts: 606

Age: 20
From: UAE

  04.05.2013 at 10:39
Written by Gurth Bennas on 02.05.2013 at 13:47

Fucking ancient fight is the main subject of religious threads.someone loves religion and another hates and this diffrence begins a stupid fight among them and none of them talk wisely. stop the shit and try to live together as humankinds whether you're muslim or christian or jew or.... .talking here cures nothing. in the end I must say that was my opinion and it was in my mind for long and here i could share it

Agreed with your point of view. I can probably relate to the fact that you can't blame a person solely for his/her personal beliefs as long as you don't have of that person doing something wrong. The real monster, I'm afraid, is the people putting biased beliefs over basic values. A muslim and a christian CAN co-exist, even a muslim and an atheist can co-exist no matter what they believe in. religious intolerance is the other end of a confrontation between religious and irreligious; it makes no difference if people are looking to put religion behind and they have no choice but to choose a side, and that results in the very "stupid fight" you've mentioned.
Bulletdodger

Posts: 463

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  11.05.2013 at 17:02
Great until the 16th century, getting worse since.
----
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können.
David Hilbert
Rasputin

Posts: 142
From: USA
  14.05.2013 at 22:09
Written by Bulletdodger on 11.05.2013 at 17:02

Great until the 16th century, getting worse since.

You are correct my Serbian brother, you are correct.
Bulletdodger

Posts: 463

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  15.05.2013 at 08:25
Written by Rasputin on 14.05.2013 at 22:09

Written by Bulletdodger on 11.05.2013 at 17:02

Great until the 16th century, getting worse since.

You are correct my Serbian brother, you are correct.



Man I dislike those nuts who want shariah law in the west.
----
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können.
David Hilbert
Rasputin

Posts: 142
From: USA
  15.05.2013 at 20:14
Written by Bulletdodger on 15.05.2013 at 08:25

Written by Rasputin on 14.05.2013 at 22:09

Written by Bulletdodger on 11.05.2013 at 17:02

Great until the 16th century, getting worse since.

You are correct my Serbian brother, you are correct.



Man I dislike those nuts who want shariah law in the west.

It's not just the West, it will be the world.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 36658

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  08.06.2013 at 15:33
Written by Rasputin on 15.05.2013 at 20:14

Written by Bulletdodger on 15.05.2013 at 08:25

It's not just the West, it will be the world.


extreme islam ha sno future, they can try take over west, but they have no chance sin Russia and China
one suicide bomb in China, chinese would attack more brutally then nato did in afganistan

and besides many ppl in Europe are anti extreme islam , some anti islam generally
and media fead a hate, like solder death in UK and attack in France. media can mainuplate whit ppl and spread a hate
and in Europe NS power and more nacinalistic goverments are rising.,... one day it can be the end

I dont think islam will take over black africa, it will never go deeply and win in India, Pakistan-India war , both has nukes, and Kasmir is basicly border

China's power is rising, and islamist in Indonesia has no future

Europe and USA if USA would fix immigration and let metal bands play and europe wont let extremists in, there will not be such problems

same time secret services wanna arrest and give us life time for elegal downloads LOL
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Rasputin

Posts: 142
From: USA
  19.09.2013 at 00:58
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpM6QKaAgP0

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