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The original post

Posted by Black Winter on 11.03.2008 at 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .



Page 48 of 48

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  13.02.2015 at 02:00
Written by Bad English on 13.02.2015 at 01:20


I agree about EU, specially Greece, that's why I am in Turkish side, Turks don't make friendship whit my origin country enemies



So you support the Turkey with all of it's current and historic human rights violations and support of terrorism (both Hamas and Islamic State) over Greece, just because Greece and Russia are on friendly terms?
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 39679

Age: 30
From: Sweden

  13.02.2015 at 02:33
Written by deadone on 13.02.2015 at 02:00

Written by Bad English on 13.02.2015 at 01:20


I agree about EU, specially Greece, that's why I am in Turkish side, Turks don't make friendship whit my origin country enemies



So you support the Turkey with all of it's current and historic human rights violations and support of terrorism (both Hamas and Islamic State) over Greece, just because Greece and Russia are on friendly terms?


negative , it was ironic to piss of greeks specially football fans
but we need stabil situation in Turkey, its border, they have best army after US in NATO, they can be used in war against Rus or against isis and islamist groups in mid east( before Erdogan ) ... peace there, stability there is peace in Europe
BTW any military conflict in Europe and US ... 1th aid kids to Palestinians anti ebola medicine, what so ever to Africa, asia wherever it goes... it wont , we 95% US and EU gives it its not enough, but if we're in crisis, world will be specially Africa, Asia and so on ... so Turkey is valuable player
humen rights ... I am whit Mubarak, who cares if he torture terrorist and I have been Guntanamo supporter. Because of it all kuweiti was found, and SEAL team 6 get it glory

But ataturk make Turkey more accept European values, Erdogan brings back Islamic. Turkey is huge potential be Europised faster from other islam states, even be atheistic in next 30 years but to it happen it must be whit out Erdogan
Turkey is more potential be Europlized if we speak from religion as Ukraine and Greece , modern Turks might not follow islam, but orthox Christianity is part of youth movement.
----
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  13.02.2015 at 03:17
Erdogan and his AKP party were democratically elected. They have managed to grow number of votes they get in each election 34% in 2002, 47% in 2007 and nearly 50% in 2011.

So it's clear that anywhere up to 50% of the voting population of Turkey supports the increasing Islamification and/or Neo-Ottoman revivalism (and both are linked anyhow). Getting rid of Erdogan doesn't mean the voting public won't elect another equaly conservative Islamist or even more radical one.


Indeed the yellowy orange areas indicate all the seats where AKP won in 2011 (province and district):



As you can see, whilst the Kemalists (secular nationalists) still rule the "European side" of Turkey, the AKP won most of seats in the hinterland. The green seats are mainly Kurdish Peace and Democracy Party. Red blob in the right middle is mainly Tunceli province which is the only province with an Alevi majority - I don't know if that has anything to do with voting habits. But Kemalism would probably appeal more to minorities as it's inclusive, unlike Sunni Islamism.
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 39679

Age: 30
From: Sweden

  13.02.2015 at 11:48
Turkey has tradition when militarists tale over , I don't see why it can not happen now. It would be best IMO.
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  15.02.2015 at 23:48
Written by Bad English on 13.02.2015 at 11:48

Turkey has tradition when militarists tale over , I don't see why it can not happen now. It would be best IMO.


I thought you were all for democracy etc etc? If the people want Islamism or Neo-Ottomanism, then why should they not have that right? It's a bit hypocritical especially when you sledge the Russians for doing the same thing (Putin is essentially a dictator).

A military coup in Turkey would actually not be well accepted globally - even the Americans would struggle to stomach it just like they've struggled to accept military coup in Egypt. The Europeans would simply ostracise Turkey even more.

Anyhow the Turkish military has been purged of known likely agitators. Ergdogan has been in power for a long time now and I suspect most higher level military appointments will be friendly to his views.
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 39679

Age: 30
From: Sweden

  15.02.2015 at 23:54
Written by deadone on 15.02.2015 at 23:48

Written by Bad English on 13.02.2015 at 11:48

Turkey has tradition when militarists tale over , I don't see why it can not happen now. It would be best IMO.


I thought you were all for democracy etc etc? If the people want Islamism or Neo-Ottomanism, then why should they not have that right? It's a bit hypocritical especially when you sledge the Russians for doing the same thing (Putin is essentially a dictator).

A military coup in Turkey would actually not be well accepted globally - even the Americans would struggle to stomach it just like they've struggled to accept military coup in Egypt. The Europeans would simply ostracise Turkey even more.

Anyhow the Turkish military has been purged of known likely agitators. Ergdogan has been in power for a long time now and I suspect most higher level military appointments will be friendly to his views.


yes but I think more what is better for Europe and safety
All regimes in middle east had stability, now ...

and btw talking about gumen rights ... why non say how they are violated in Russia, Belarus, Rus skin heads (in Putin orders) beat up in front of cops corsuians c Asians
what happens in E Europe football stadions , ... and so on
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  16.02.2015 at 00:03
Written by Bad English on 15.02.2015 at 23:54

yes but I think more what is better for Europe and safety


Not really. Europe and Turkey started to separate long before Erdogan. Turkey wanted to join EU but issues with Turkish human rights violations and especially Kurds prevented this.

And secretly there are theories that EU was scared of allowing a large and powerful Muslim state join the EU (even though Western Europe is working hard at becoming a Muslim majority).


Quote:

All regimes in middle east had stability, now ...


They weren't stable. There was underlying tensions that the western media didn't report. Even Saudi Arabia has had problems with Shia uprisings but these get no press coverage. In the end the Arab Spring was the result of those tensions.

And it didn't help the USA had undermined Iraq and then Libya and Syria. It didn't help USA was letting Saudi, Emirate and Qatari support jihadis. It didn't help the US acted on behalf of the Sunnis to wage war on the Shias.

Basically the whole thing had to blow up some point. And I don't think it's finished blowing up.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  18.02.2015 at 06:55
Interesting article on ISIS and it's foundation in the original teachings of Mohammad:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
BestMetalstormer

Posts: 3452

Age: 27
From: Vietnam

  25.02.2015 at 00:37
Written by deadone on 18.02.2015 at 06:55

Interesting article on ISIS and it's foundation in the original teachings of Mohammad:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

excellent article. i wonder when they isis will distinct all apostales of the world, long road, probably i wont meet they isis, probably i wont live long to see them or they cant live long to see me as their finish sacrify.. but speaking frankly, if they meet communist namese haha only superman survive.. imagine why soviet, china, nam has more than 70 years to endure, being brainwashing both physical and mentally,..communist still toughest murders.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 5169
From: Australia

  26.02.2015 at 00:18
A recent poll conducted in Britain of 1,000 Muslims showed that 27% had " 'some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris" and 10% agreed with the attack. 20% believed that Islam is incompatible with Western democracy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2968192/A-quarter-British-Muslims-sympathy-motives-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-Paris-new-survey-reveals.html


Whilst these are not majorities, they're sizeable minorities. It puts into question the value of Islamic migration into Western society. In essence it further supports the notion of the West basically importing overseas problems.

And the it puts into question how respectful the majority of muslims are towards other key components of modern Western values - gender equality, freedom of sexuality, freedom of religion etc.

I would love to see results of questionairres asking these questions to Western muslims.

An interesting editorial regarding this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11434695/Over-a-quarter-of-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-the-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.-That-is-far-too-many.html#disqus_thread


I found this part particularly interesting:

Quote:
Two weeks ago I took part in a debate on free speech, hosted by the Islamic Education and Research Academy. It was a good discussion, well attended, with an almost exclusively Muslim audience. Near the end, one audience member began to defend the killing of apostates. I challenged him, as did the other non-Muslim panelists. None of the Muslim panelists challenged him. No members of the audience challenged him. Instead, when he'd finished defending the murder of apostates, a significant section of the audience applauded him.




Also people often talk about how if Muslims were more educated they would be less likely to become extremists. Though as the case below shows, even a University education can result in one becoming a homicidal fundamentalist:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26451016/is-executioner-jihadi-john-named-by-media/

Truth is education means nothing.

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