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Original post

Posted by Black Winter, 11.03.2008 - 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .
07.10.2015 - 19:56
Candlemass
Defaeco
Germany's police union and women's rights groups accused the authorities on Tuesday of playing down reports of harassment, sexual assault and even rape at refugee shelters because they feared a backlash against asylum seekers.

Censorship was never a part of democratic discourse and is most definitely not a part of the 'clean' narrative some people are trying to sell.

The Express reports Woman 'gang-raped in refugee camp ordered to stay SILENT by no-borders activists' which isn't the first time it happens in these groups.

Written by Rasputin on 07.10.2015 at 19:23

I didn't play that game.


Seriously? Not even one in the series? This might be the most interesting sentence you uttered on this thread Rasputin .

Written by Bad English on 07.10.2015 at 12:42

Just saw video.. ''immigrants, refugees in Germany ...if ppl would be able see simple things online there wont be such troubles and hatred


Always be vigilant. We live in the age of 'activism'.
After correcting people, I got several times the response: "there are no wrong tactics, only wrong targets". People don't mind out-right lying if they have a 'cause'.
Try and check everything as best as you can and adjust your level of belief.
The most interesting content in Wikipedia is turning out to be the articles 'version history'. Major NGOs are publishing edited videos to skew them, major newspapers are mistranslated languages.

We live in the age that critical thinking skills are needed probably more than ever but instead social justice warrior skills are more prevalent.
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10.10.2015 - 08:23
Rasputin

I hope Turkey would get blown apart, since they are continuing their genocide against the Kurds, aiding ISIS and helping the spread of terrorism.
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10.10.2015 - 13:45
Candlemass
Defaeco
Pretty sympathetic towards the Kurds by default. Besides the geopolitics, Kurdish Jews always speak in a fond manner about them and recall the positive experiences during Kurdish-Jewish celebrations (Saharana).

Turkey tho, is very powerful and is a major player in the region. Enough powerful to make American government not talk about the Armenian genocide. Which happened very much thanks to the oppression of Christians at the time, as dhimmi, which still continues to this today.

Christians are the most persecuted group of religion in the world today and are utterly ignored.

BTW, Why blow up a peace rally? Well, naive me buying into the BBC headlines. A "peace" rally or a left-wing oriented rally, which explains it better.
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10.10.2015 - 15:44
Candlemass
Defaeco
The Chief of German police union on German TV: Rape and slavery in German refugee camps. Mostly Christian victims like you can expect.
Christians are about 4-5% of Iraqi population but are 40% of Iraqi refugees. Actual refugees, not the ones that complain about weak wi-fi or mediocre food.

Der Spiegel also reported it. Migrants crafting weapons, security guards fleeing in fear, rape of children and women, prosecution of homosexuals. Says better migrants are spread around.

If the European left, which are usually well-off middle-class voters, put your money where your mouth is, and start living your ideals and miss-placed empathy and move to these neighborhoods. Exchange your homes for a few days and let Christian refugees live in them.


On the good side of things:

Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet were awarded the Nobel peace prize. Good luck to secularists in Tunisia, good luck to Tunisia.
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13.10.2015 - 01:42
Rasputin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=431&v=Ykb5sxTl1Rw
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13.10.2015 - 19:42
Candlemass
Defaeco
Maryam Namazie: Finally @guardian publishes my response to David Shariatmadari's apologetics for Islamism after surreal changes...
"In their "anti-colonialist" worldview, which unsurprisingly coincides with that of the ruling classes in the "Islamic world" or "Muslim community", dissenters are either "native informants" or contributing to the "demonisation of Muslims".
For those who have bought into the Islamist narrative, there are no social and political movements, class politics, dissenters, women's rights campaigners, socialists - just homogenised "Muslims" (read Islamists) who face "intimidation" and "discrimination" if an ex-Muslim woman speaks on a university campus.
...
Now is the time to reclaim the left and the values it represents for us all - irrespective of "community", beliefs and borders. In the age of Isis, this is an historical task and necessity."

So The Guardian would not publish it without making significant changes to the original. Can't win with them.

She published this later on her blog:
Clearly, the problem is not just David Shariatmadari's but the Guardian's editorial line in favour of the Islamists.
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14.10.2015 - 11:07
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by deadone on 14.10.2015 at 01:34

Excellent stuff from Maryam, even if sanitised by the Guardian.

The amazing thing she talks about in all this is the left wing's support of what is essentially an extreme right-wing ideology (Islam is only part religion, most of it is an extremely detailed authoritarian guide on how to rule every element of society).


They are not left, people should kinda stop calling them left. They are post-left/regressives.
Left use t signify individual rights, trust in reason, universalism, cosmopolitanism, the ability of one to free himself of social and prejudicial restrains using reason and asserted the value of a person as an individual.

Basically Kant's Answering the Question: What is Enlightenment?

That ended ages ago.
Multiculturalism is group rights oriented, reason is a relative faculty, particularism, multiculturalism, the confinement of a person to a group and the lack of individual value as separate from his group.

Basically Foucault's answer to What is Enlightenment?

It's a culture war, parallel to the Science wars. It explains post-left authoritarianism, ad-hominum attacks ("You're privileged!" ), the methodological idealism ("racism is about how people sense it"), the obsession with 'diversity' that does not matter (the more the faculties that shout 'we want diversity! Please bring in more 'sex', 'race' and ethnic diversity' the less political diversity they have), etc.
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16.10.2015 - 10:10
Candlemass
Defaeco
I don't think Maryam Namazie is going to get another column on The Guardian, they really managed to piss her off with thier editing of her article and the way they treated her (very lately published) response:

"There are a lot of comments on how the Guardian is burying my article against Islamism and deleting many comments. It shouldn't be surprising. Getting the Guardian to acknowledge Islamism's crimes is like getting David Irving to recognise the holocaust - it's just not going to happen."
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16.10.2015 - 21:38
Candlemass
Defaeco
Helping Secularists and Atheists in the Middle East.
Any of you reading this can help with the skills he has. Audio and video production, law counseling, any skill you have.

https://www.movements.org/

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24.10.2015 - 00:14
Candlemass
Defaeco
What I hatred about series like "Generation Kill", is that Iraqis had no agency in that film. The people making all the calls, thinking and planning were all 'white' people and it got to me. I have family literally from the East and the West and that presentation is simply false.

Lately reading about the terrible murders in Sweden yet again the asymmetry between white and non-white according to European left.

Anton Lundin Pettersson is a moral agent. That's pretty clear from the article.
He is not presented as someone moved by external causes without any self-control beyond that. It's not mentioned that he was 'oppressed' by the left-wing pro-immigrant government policies, by mainstream media which gave him no voice, a 'native' seeing the schools he grew-up in become the worst in the country because of mass-immigration and political grievances. That all these 'pushed' him to far-right ideologies and eventually murder.
Take responsibility stop mass-immigration policies and that will stop far-right violence is not called upon.

No, that form of presentation does not fit the narrative of "white man vs. noble savage".

Faisal Al-Mutar presents one of few people, Like Maajid Nawaz, that don't buy into progressive narratives - and no they are not white nationalists.
Watching the Faisal Al-Mutar debating CJ Werleman at Apostacon 2014.
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14.11.2015 - 18:35
Maco
Pvt Funderground
I thought this place would be full of posts related to what happened in Paris, but it's very quiet.
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14.11.2015 - 18:47
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
People already posted their thoughts on the SB it seems

Someone should do a "memorable shoutbox conversations" thread and post the SB posts there
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14.11.2015 - 18:47
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Maco on 14.11.2015 at 18:35

I thought this place would be full of posts related to what happened in Paris, but it's very quiet.


call Rasputin and this place has nothing to do ...
not all pp, who live in Europe are Christians, not all ppl who loive in muslim areas are muslims, and not all muslims are terrorists, but they failt is they believe in wrong God, and let religuin dictate their life
if Vatican never would exist we would have I net and HD TV in 1911
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
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I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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14.11.2015 - 18:56
Vombatus
Potorro
Well, only the same 2-3 guys post overhere and they've been quiet lately
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14.11.2015 - 21:41
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by Vombatus on 14.11.2015 at 18:56

Well, only the same 2-3 guys post overhere and they've been quiet lately


The writing was on the wall and everyone who had something remotely to say on the topic habitually did. It's a tragedy, more details will come to light the next few days.
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14.11.2015 - 21:52
no one
Account deleted
Written by Vombatus on 14.11.2015 at 18:56

Well, only the same 2-3 guys post overhere and they've been quiet lately


And thank lord fuck for that
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14.11.2015 - 23:15
FOOCK Nam

French Foreign Legion will show IS what they should be scared of.

Problem of the West now not because they are fought with IS. Problem is the question fight or not. Navy Seals SAS and French Legion n Nato can sweep all those isil terriorists in middle east in just few months, if they choose to fight. Until now, the West have been gone doing lots of war, Obama doesnt want more troops died, they just train middle east, not fighting by their own. So if Obama decides to use troops then Isil will have no chance to longer exist.
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16.11.2015 - 05:07
FOOCK Nam

Written by Bad English on 14.11.2015 at 23:23

Written by FOOCK Nam on 14.11.2015 at 23:15

French Foreign Legion will show IS what they should be scared of.

Problem of the West now not because they are fought with IS. Problem is the question fight or not. Navy Seals SAS and French Legion n Nato can sweep all those isil terriorists in middle east in just few months, if they choose to fight. Until now, the West have been gone doing lots of war, Obama doesnt want more troops died, they just train middle east, not fighting by their own. So if Obama decides to use troops then Isil will have no chance to longer exist.


I dint think so, best is use Article 5 just show world NATO is solidary (and I am ashamed of Sweden we are not in this great organization) , I don't think ground troops ever be there, it will be intenisive bombing and maybe balstic missiles (and Rus also should answer to isis for plane. maybe nuke and to be honest if they do I doubt world would care since its not strike to us)

Ground troops will kill all of IS, in just few months, its my assumption. Remember ground troops have defeated both saddam troops and taliban debunked. Until now, USA are tired cuz of two wars before. Obama chose diplomatic rather army action.

Thing is that now America still stuck in afghan, and because the formation of IS so America congress fear of ground troops fight can generates more problem. Obama considers Iraq war is wrong, thats the thing why America fears that if interfere in Syria by troops or action can generate problems. The strategy is let the ground fight by natives, the air strike is for support. Which is currently situation.

Yes, Bad English, missiles rocket,bomb, b52 any air fight from high drop down, all are being done. I just mean French Legion, or Navy Seals join the war then just few months.. Though America no longer want troops fatals anymore. In Iraq war, America lost few thousands of troops, afghan i dont know but still defeat..though like mentioned above, interfering by ground troops and reconstrucing a country risks a lot, which is vaguely why IS formed after Iraq war.
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16.11.2015 - 05:55
Slayer666

So, the thread about the Paris attacks, committed my Muslims, was nuked by a certain someone. Shall we keep the discussion alive?
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16.11.2015 - 11:36
mz

Written by Slayer666 on 16.11.2015 at 05:55

So, the thread about the Paris attacks, committed my Muslims, was nuked by a certain someone. Shall we keep the discussion alive?


What happened there? I had four people quoting me in that page.
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16.11.2015 - 20:15
mz

Ok, let's carry it here:
I had stated that instead of mass deportation and discrimination, the way to fight Islamic terror is to basically fight Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Seemingly, during her time as US secretary of state, Hilary Clinton had considered donors in Saudi Arabia as the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide .
I also posted something about EU countries buying cheap oil from ISIS last year, hence funding its terrorism in some way.
And yeah, before going on, I must repeat that extremist Muslims are to be blamed for these all, and that terrorism is justified by some schools of Islamic believes. In no way I am saying that the the east is not to be blamed here, but the actions of western countires are really stupic, and sketchy it seems.
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16.11.2015 - 22:13
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by mz on 16.11.2015 at 20:15

Ok, let's carry it here:
I had stated that instead of mass deportation and discrimination, the way to fight Islamic terror is to basically fight Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Seemingly, during her time as US secretary of state, Hilary Clinton had considered donors in Saudi Arabia as the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide .


I agree this should be essential but ain't gonna happen. The economic cost would be too big, and probably the beginning of new problems. That's that.

Then you haver other issues like the foreign policy the US has been conducting in the region for the last 50 years that is excellent to stir up shit in order to cripple the rest of the world for their personal benefit but that later backfires on them. I'm afraid that won't change either. I think they almost enjoy repeating the same mistakes. Rest of the "international alliance" are pretty good at being incompetent too, letting ISIS grow for 3 years was a masterful move.

The western countries not doing anything from the start would have been pretty nice (I mean, better than now) but they just can't help to blow things out of proportion. Now that they intervened, they'd better go all the way. Again, I'm quite sceptic of this happening considering the interest and somewhat paradoxical relation between the players. If anything, there will be more crap and failed states for a while.

And while I'm at it, I doubt that having restrictive immigration laws is going to help. Most of the problem related to security is already inside, having to go back to colonismism to mend it, but I have a feeling it's too late for that. People should rather focus on why this issue appeared so virulently only now and not before. Also, this does not mean open boarders is a solution or even good. Rather than fighting over yes or no to "Welcome Refugeeeees!", how the actual fuck are you going to take care of a million, two million or three million human beings that pop up at your door? I don't see much debate about this, and I think it should be a central issue considering how unprepared and clueless the EU is acting.

So, meh.
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17.11.2015 - 00:22
mz

Written by Vombatus on 16.11.2015 at 22:13


I agree this should be essential but ain't gonna happen. The economic cost would be too big, and probably the beginning of new problems. That's that.

Then you haver other issues like the foreign policy the US has been conducting in the region for the last 50 years that is excellent to stir up shit in order to cripple the rest of the world for their personal benefit but that later backfires on them. I'm afraid that won't change either. I think they almost enjoy repeating the same mistakes. Rest of the "international alliance" are pretty good at being incompetent too, letting ISIS grow for 3 years was a masterful move.

The western countries not doing anything from the start would have been pretty nice (I mean, better than now) but they just can't help to blow things out of proportion. Now that they intervened, they'd better go all the way. Again, I'm quite sceptic of this happening considering the interest and somewhat paradoxical relation between the players. If anything, there will be more crap and failed states for a while.

And while I'm at it, I doubt that having restrictive immigration laws is going to help. Most of the problem related to security is already inside, having to go back to colonismism to mend it, but I have a feeling it's too late for that. People should rather focus on why this issue appeared so virulently only now and not before. Also, this does not mean open boarders is a solution or even good. Rather than fighting over yes or no to "Welcome Refugeeeees!", how the actual fuck are you going to take care of a million, two million or three million human beings that pop up at your door? I don't see much debate about this, and I think it should be a central issue considering how unprepared and clueless the EU is acting.

So, meh.


These all go eventually back to the problem of lack of energy independence for EU. European countries are too afraid of having a firm and meaningful action against the true origin of the problem, because, as you said, that is too costly. I could imagine social unrest in Europe following energy cut out, and this is not just a problem with oil coming from Persian Guld by Arabic counties. Russia cut the gas line a few years ago on the beginning of a very cold winter, and that actually can happen again, causing sever problem. I really see no short term solution for this problem.
And I totally agree on what you said about problem being already inside the EU. Many Muslims are now integrated into France because of the colonizing action of France decades ago. I imagine many of the guys born and grown up in EU by parents coming from a colonized country are now pissed off about the filthy history of the continent.
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17.11.2015 - 01:12
mz

Written by deadone on 17.11.2015 at 00:59

This is not a problem for West to solve. EU/USA can't do anything, even if they weren't politicially and culturally crippled.

The problem is Islam and in particular the Islamic Revival/Reformation. Only Muslims can solve that.


Oh and whilst I agree with nuking those that support terrorism, all it will do is push more Muslims towards terrorism. Al Qaeda got lots of support simply from US having stationed troops in Saudi Arabia (ie Holy Land).

Imagine what bombing the Saudi regime would do.


The problem is the islamic extremism, but it is intended on US/EU for now, hence a western problem.

And lunching war on Saudi Arabia is not the only thing that can be done. Why not trying some sanction? for example? Like what was done in the case of Iran. Of course this is not going to happen.
Why not putting sanctions on the countries buying oil from ISIS? Really, this must not be hard to do, but there is no intention for it.
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17.11.2015 - 16:43
Rasputin

More attacks to follow. This is just the beginning. As long as the USA continues to arm and train the "moderates" and buy oil from ISIS, ISIS will spread. It is up to the Muslim Countries to step up and defeat ISIS and "radical" Islam. However, I do not see this happening since Saudi Arabia is funding them as well, Yemen, Qatar and other places are doing the same. So far, the Russians are the only ones who are doing the right thing. The sad fact is that many of these terrorists could have been the good guys given the circumstance. You reduce the country to nothingness, you cannot expect peace and prosperity. ISIS members are mostly mercenaries, just like Putin said before. Some joined out of fear, some out of respect for the cause and others because of the money.

During the Democratic debate, MS. Clinton basically confirmed what I have been saying all along. Too bad no one asked her the question as to what methodology is being used to determine what a "moderate" Muslim is, before he gets the training and weapons.

Honestly, EU/NATO has it coming. You fuck around the world enough, and you bomb and kill relentlessly for 10 years, the devil will come for its own. The France had its hands dirty and now it is suffering the consequences. Now we are just going to sit back, and watch Europe burn.
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17.11.2015 - 22:16
mz

Written by deadone on 17.11.2015 at 01:54


The West can't change Islam. It's like Muslims changing Christianity in Latin America.


West cannot change Islam. It, however, can affect how different Islamic groups are funded and how certain Islamic believes are advertised. Terrorism needs huge money it seems, and that money could be traceable.

Written by deadone on 17.11.2015 at 01:54

1. Sanctions do not work. Iran had sanctions on it since 1979! And most analysts and politicians think the US in the end just gave up with that nuclear deal.

Anyone saying that sanctions on Iran did not work has no clue what he is talking about. Sanctions caused severe currency crisis and affected many aspects of life in Iran, going as far as making it impossible for some cancer patients to recieve treatements as the medicines were too rare and extensive due to sanctions. It can be said that those sanctions mostly, affected ordinary people, but they at the end caused the Iran government to agree with the deal. The oil export dropped into half due to them, and even if the government could somehow find a way to sell oil, it could end up having problems receiving the money.


Quote:

2. None of this solves the problem of cultural integration or the fact that many muslims in West want western living standards but not western way of life.

Not all those who do not like western life style are terrorists. The terrorism attacks will at least be reduced to some degree if you prevent the ordinary guys to get extremized.

Quote:

3. Putting sanctions on countries that buy oil from ISIS like Turkey (NATO member and close European ally) is impossible.

Why? Because these countries are Western themselves?

Quote:

4.ISIS is not the only game in town. Most Muslim terrorists in West aren't ISIS - they're lone wolves. And there's other groups ala Al Qaeda and its affiliates.


First of all, the most important one is ISIS for now. Maybe you could not get rid of all the extremists, but at least you could say that the number of people being killed by terrorists was much less before ISIS.
Also, at the end, these groups all have the same sort of believes more or less. If the extreme idealogy is not advertised, it will be less likely for people to turn into extremists.
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Giving my ears a rest from music.
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18.11.2015 - 01:15
mz

Could you please edit this and make it easier to actually understand? Because, I am lost there.
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18.11.2015 - 03:22
Rasputin

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18.11.2015 - 03:24
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Oooooh the braindeadones are at it again... please crawl back under your rocks.
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Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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18.11.2015 - 18:03
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Written by deadone on 18.11.2015 at 04:05

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.11.2015 at 03:24

Oooooh the braindeadones are at it again... please crawl back under your rocks.


Says the puppet whose only response is to hurl abuse cause he doesn't have an opinion of his own.


Lol.

Well, you're right. If a person doesn't have HIS OPINION on subject never interested in and then calling someone with "average" one-liners is itself a losing shining testicle.

Either you don't jump in or jump with formidable opinion that not only "replies" to posters but also attracts others to read upon.
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