@Ridden Disease
I really didn't want to do this because this thread is not about you but as we're talking about silenting critizism by blaming anti-semitism I guess you're a fine example of that so allow me.. Here are your direct comments about the critizism towards gov of Israel and towards ANY other but pro-Israel and zionist sources:

"It dosent matter what you state, its what you speak.
You can be a racict without even knowing, by discrimination.
If dont ahve to wear nazi symbols to be one."

"Yeah we saw taht one in the UN 'anti-Racict' rally...
and at the last war in Lebanon.
Your 'Reasearch', Il say again why does Pro-Israeli and Pro-Truth activists Disscover the truth while people like you just dont care for it?"

"Just open a fucking History book and get out of your little LSD left-wing trip hole.
I have friends in the army, and they dont see half of the shit you talk about.
I bet you when I go to the army I wont see a 1\10 from your propaganda."

"I think Israel should do the same, use propaganda ,shock value, faking of information and faking pictuers, the problem we dont wanna go down to your level.
Tell me why dont you search for the truth?
Your just pure-anti Israeli."

"Only pro-Israelis and pro-turth activiats disscover lies."

"Why dont you use your brain for once, insted of watchign Left-wing propaganda movies?
Do you know how to read? I know it takes more effort. but try it."

"The only fanatic people that are protesting the actions of the governemen (Considred left wing) is about 0.01% and half of them are punk head, anarchists, socialists,Anti-globalization freaks, and Hippies that try to fufill there ideologys via the conflict.
They dont only past criticism over the goverment, they dont even belive in the idear of a goverment.
Most of the Ultra left wing demonstrations are held by "anarchist agasint the fence", because they dont belive in borders, there a bunch of nut heads."

"So no you dont have top shout and a racict or I hate jews, its in your opinions or opinions influenced by others."

"Again left wing anti-semite opinions? never know."

"Stop watching and eading and watching Propaganda - bulild up your own opinions and try to read some real history."

"Human rights groups that dont care about human but more about politics
They use there job as poiting anti-Israeli politics.
whats does Human rights got to do wiht politics now days?
Its just a cynical use of it to be anti-Israeli."

"These actions you can see on left wing propaganda movies, demonstrations all over europe, and in opinions in Metalstorm and around the world."

"people like you are dissgusting."

"You keep on reapiting the word 'jew' not so fond of them are you?"


To be honest your attitude sucks, you act like a little child when having to listen something unpleasant, close your eyes, yell and shout, throw a fit and tantrum, accuse everyone to be the bullies because that way it's easier to have your way.
You don't have to agree with me (or any other left wing LSD-hippie in that matter) but you should learn how to debate in civilized way. Your behaviour is a fine example of silenting the critizism by simply accusing everyone who disagees your views anti-semite and anti-Israel.

Also you have judged me as well as other european who has taken part of the discussion based on European Union, European press or United Nations when it's criminal to judge jews based on State of Israel's acts.. double standard? I would very much say so.

Written by Angelique on 27.08.2006 at 02:08

@Ridden Disease
I really didn't want to do this because this thread is not about you but as we're talking about silenting critizism by blaming anti-semitism I guess you're a fine example of that so allow me.. Here are your direct comments about the critizism towards gov of Israel and towards ANY other but pro-Israel and zionist sources:

[i]"It dosent matter what you state, its what you speak.
You can be a racict without even knowing, by discrimination.
If dont ahve to wear nazi symbols to be one."

"Yeah we saw taht one in the UN 'anti-Racict' rally...
and at the last war in Lebanon.
Your 'Reasearch', Il say again why does Pro-Israeli and Pro-Truth activists Disscover the truth while people like you just dont care for it?"

"Just open a fucking History book and get out of your little LSD left-wing trip hole.
I have friends in the army, and they dont see half of the shit you talk about.
I bet you when I go to the army I wont see a 1\10 from your propaganda."

"I think Israel should do the same, use propaganda ,shock value, faking of information and faking pictuers, the problem we dont wanna go down to your level.
Tell me why dont you search for the truth?
Your just pure-anti Israeli."

"Only pro-Israelis and pro-turth activiats disscover lies."

"Why dont you use your brain for once, insted of watchign Left-wing propaganda movies?
Do you know how to read? I know it takes more effort. but try it."

You do archive those kinda stuff?

So I didnt call evrybody anti-smeite now did I?

I have every right to disslike teh left wing, and mock them.

Infact the left wing is the most facict movment in our days.

You fund terror (by the way yourl nearly blown up by your own money in the UK), people like galloway that represent the leftwing, supprot the Hizbullah and Hamas, you say things like "Why should Israel have nukes and not Iran"?
Supports governments and system that put down human rights woman and man as one.
Yo usay nothing about rian shouting "Destroy Israel" "the Holocust never was" Making cartoons that mook the Holocust in exhibitions for the wide public.
Yeah its ok to blow up women and children because your 'poor' ? would a normal humen say that?
Il take poor Israelis that suffer from the poor economy becuse ofw ar and send them to blow up , is that ok?

Hell yeah the left wing did NOTHING for discovering the truth, and you see many of there true faces with time.
I think there pathetic and spineless.
Whos gonna act against Iran? the left wing?


So whos the facict here? I mean really, whos the facict here?

1) holocaust denial is restricted to the far right of politics. Anti-semtic leftism died a century ago.

2) Not very many leftists say "why should israel have nukes and not iran", it's "why should anyone have nukes?"- I and pretty much all other leftists are strongly opposed to the idea of the bourgeiosie controlling weapons of mass destruction. I don't care which god they worship or what flag they ask people to die under, they're all bad and none of them should have access to that kind of weaponry

3) I have yet to see a leftist mock the holocaust. Communists were killed in the camps alongside Gypsies, Homosexuals, Disabled People, Poles, Russians and Jews. Thats no laughing matter for me or for any other true leftist.

4) Leftists do NOT support Hizb'Allah, which is a far-right organization that comes under the umbrella of Islamo-FASCISM. We support the Lebanese workers, not organized religion.

5) The left wing is the only group willing to do what it takes to eradicate terrorism, which is adress the causes. The theo-cons in washington are having far too much fun getting bribed for big "defence" contracts, skimming off profits from arms deals, getting free banquets courtesy of the Israeli Lobby, and indulging in their wargames that make them feel all big and powerful to even think of wanting to get rid of terrorism. On the other hand us communists just want the people of the world to be equal, and everyone to live in peace. To that end we are willing to remove the conditions that keeps the middle east in poverty, and allow the middle eastern nations to develop into socialist democracies (at the same time as we try to turn europe and america into democracies to begin with).

6) Who is the fascist here: You. A fascist is someone who, playing on irrational hatred, supports a militaristic non-democratic government which bases it's governing policies on the subjugation of an underclass, glamourizing and building up the military, heavy use of and low accountability for the secret police, propagandizing against the left wing, and finding excuses for military action. Sounds familiar anyone?

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

Written by Guest on 27.08.2006 at 13:54



6) Who is the fascist here: You. A fascist is someone who, playing on irrational hatred, supports a militaristic non-democratic government which bases it's governing policies on the subjugation of an underclass, glamourizing and building up the military, heavy use of and low accountability for the secret police, propagandizing against the left wing, and finding excuses for military action. Sounds familiar anyone?

No I dont raelly get it.
When did I say I hate someone?
Like what?... are you gonna be specific about everything you said?

Written by SETHULHU on 27.08.2006 at 14:14

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

Yeah..thats what you learn in Arab countrys...and thats why thel never be peace...
Myn kamp is one of the best sellers...

Some say more then 7 million were killed, youl never know, because all of there families were killed as well. no one to remmebers them...The bodys turnd into ash.
No memorys. no names, of Huge numbers of those people that were murdered.
Just numbers of jews before and after, Nazi documents show all the numbers that were carried in trains, all the people murded in there camps...

Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood (also known as Richard Verrall). The Supreme Court of Canada found in 1992 that the book "misrepresented the work of historians, misquoted witnesses, fabricated evidence, and cited non-existent authorities."

Scholars credit the very first Holocaust deniers as the Nazis themselves. Historians have documented evidence that Heinrich Himmler instructed his camp commandants to destroy records, crematoria and other signs of mass extermination of human beings, as Germany's defeat became imminent and the Nazi leaders realized they would most likely be captured and brought to trial. Following the end of World War II, many of the former leaders of the SS left Germany and began using their propaganda skills to defend their actions (or, their critics contended, to rewrite history). Denial materials began to appear shortly after the war.


In France, Holocaust denial has become more prominent in the 1990s as "negationism," though the movement has existed in ultra-left French politics since at least the sixties, led by figures such as Pierre Guillaume (who was involved in the bookshop La Vieille Taupe during the 1960s). Recently, elements of the extreme far left and extreme far right in France have begun to build on each others' negationist arguments, which often span beyond the Holocaust to cover a range of anti-Semitic views, incorporating Marxist critiques of "Jewish capitalists," (and beforeJ "jewish Communists" they always find a reason...) attempts to tie the Holocaust to the Biblical massacre of the Canaanites, critiques of Zionism and other material fanning what has been called a "conspiratorial Judeo-phobia" designed to legitimize and "banalize" anti-Semitism.


No one can deny the Holocust happening, or the numbers of people that lsot there lifes, and to tell you the truth im not willing to talk about. wanna research it? do it, Im not taking part in such a debat.

i'm once again really sick and tired to try to get my point out to Mr. Ridden Disease like so many times before so I'm just going to ignore his ridiculous reply, but I found something interesting concidering human rights violations in Israel.. there's actually few Israeli human rights organizations that are concentrating only the situation in occupied territories so I just wanted to pass links to those who are interested, I personally find especially B'Tselem and Yesh Din very interesting and also useful when you want to find out the problems with the occupation, all these are all Israeli people, lawyers, doctors, teachers etc. etc. there are even people who works for the government.. not every Israeli person are brainwashed like our Mr. Ridden Disease.

http://www.btselem.org/English/
http://www.rhr.israel.net/
http://www.machsomwatch.org/
http://www.yesh-din.org/

ridden disease: I'm just going to pick one little piece of your post, because it attacks something i hold sacred.

Marx was not an anti-semite. Marxism is diametrically opposed to anti-semitism. Please stop referring to ideologies of which you are utterly ignorant as sources of racism. Do you actually know anything at all about marxism? Or have you merely heard from your "betters" that all marxists are anti-semites, along with all french people, arabs, muslims and are thus not worth even researching, getting to know, or talking to?

Marxism condemns ALL members of the bourgeiosie. As a marxist I will spit upon bourgeios jews just as readily as i will spit upon bourgeios christians, hindus, muslims or bhuddists. Does that suddenly make me anti-semitic? No.

Written by Angelique on 27.08.2006 at 18:07

i'm once again really sick and tired to try to get my point out to Mr. Ridden Disease like so many times before so I'm just going to ignore his ridiculous reply, but I found something interesting concidering human rights violations in Israel.. there's actually few Israeli human rights organizations that are concentrating only the situation in occupied territories so I just wanted to pass links to those who are interested, I personally find especially B'Tselem and Yesh Din very interesting and also useful when you want to find out the problems with the occupation, all these are all Israeli people, lawyers, doctors, teachers etc. etc. there are even people who works for the government.. not every Israeli person are brainwashed like our Mr. Ridden Disease.

http://www.btselem.org/English/
http://www.rhr.israel.net/
http://www.machsomwatch.org/
http://www.yesh-din.org/

Im brainwasht? I didnt fake any photos latlely..did your media?
Did I demonize Israel or your media?

yeah your right...its just the 0.1% that brainwasht and Im not a part of them.
Its more like 0.1% that are brainwasht and have the 'Messiah complex'.

I know all those sites and its not something new to me...
They have there own political agenda.
and I support human rights, without the politicas into it and leftwing ideology's.
and by the way...there fund come from Eourpen goverment money, not Israeli.

I think the checkpints are there for a reason, and that Palestinians should be treated with more care, not more then that.

and your way out of the topic any ways...why dont you warn yourself?

Written by Guest on 28.08.2006 at 01:03

ridden disease: I'm just going to pick one little piece of your post, because it attacks something i hold sacred.

Marx was not an anti-semite. Marxism is diametrically opposed to anti-semitism. Please stop referring to ideologies of which you are utterly ignorant as sources of racism. Do you actually know anything at all about marxism? Or have you merely heard from your "betters" that all marxists are anti-semites, along with all french people, arabs, muslims and are thus not worth even researching, getting to know, or talking to?

Marxism condemns ALL members of the bourgeiosie. As a marxist I will spit upon bourgeios jews just as readily as i will spit upon bourgeios christians, hindus, muslims or bhuddists. Does that suddenly make me anti-semitic? No.

Yeah but you still get anti-semites that belive in Marxism. and you laso get self hating jews...and self hating blacks that are neo-nazis...how fuckt up is that...
Karl Marx himself was jewish...

Its not a racict ideology...didnt say it is.
We can talk about Marxism in a different thread.

by the way ridden, even though iam lebanese, i have not studied in an ARAB school or ARAB univesity, on the contrary, i studied in American based schools and Universities. and they did teach us that 6 miilion known dead,and they did have that all over our text books and history books.

thus i was brought up to believe in this 6 million figure and 5 more million (or so) gays, jehovas witness, crippled and so forth.

wiki has something i didnt know till now: "Japan is a safe and flourishing sanctuary for Holocaust deniers. A number of groups and distinguished persons deny the Holocaust and publicly present their studies without any hesitation." interesting, guess our ARAB influence reached them as well.

@Sethulu,
Well, Japan can be pretty anti semite, theyve written a few books on nonsense, because some are still facist militaristic people who think that hitler is still alive (jk). I happen to be half japanese and I can tell you that Japan has alot of work to do in terms of how they view the world, its called island mentality.

@Ridden,
You are completely right, after the wall was built 90% of terrorrist attack went down, need I say more? They want their country, they can have it...
Its not like Israelis dont get checked...there is a bloody checkpoint every entrance to Jerusalem that checks EVERYONE! Not to mention that every cafe, restaurant, store, shop, bank, hospital, building, etc. are required to check everyone entering the building, INCLUDING ISRAELIS! So I dont know why the whole world makes a big deal of checkpoints...pansies.

lets keep the discussion out of the political side and into the reliion it self as much as possible.

regarding the mentality of these Anti-semite japanese as you call them, since i do not belive or trust that 6 million jews died in the crematories and gaz chambers and so forth,but i do belive that a certain umber have died including the other races/disabled and so forth.

how is it that none jews can convert to judaism?

in christianity we have a couple of things we do:
1) baptism
2) first communion
3) first confession

even though you are a christian once you are baptised, but doing the other 2 makes you into the religion more if you knwo what i mean. if you have never been baptosed you are NOT christian and thus you need to do so.

what about judaism.. what do you do and kindly explain those traditions more if possible so i get more ideas on them

Written by SETHULHU on 31.08.2006 at 12:36



what about judaism.. what do you do and kindly explain those traditions more if possible so i get more ideas on them

I dont understand waht your asking ,what you want, and whats your point.

how is it that none jews can convert to judaism?

They go to the Rabbi or whatever say they wanna be jewish, they pass the test of will to be jewish, they learn how to be jewish, read books, learn Jewish heritage, learn prays, nearly everything to be a religious jew.
and after you do all that you pass another test,
and then you have to prove with time that your still a religous jew, lets say months.
So it isnt jsut aa ritual, its an exhausting process to check if you really want to be jewish.

Judaism never has a command to convernt other people, or a history of jews converting other people to Judaism, all none-jews that want to become jewish should do it only from free will to be jewish.

Ze jews... (its from 'Snatch', God I love that movie)

Lets see...
From 2000 years ago they were forced to leave 'The land of Israel' and from since then they are pretty much persecuted.
By the Right wing, Left wing, Facicts, Communists, Nazis, capitalists and about nearly everyone, including other jews.


Jews currently make up approximately 0.25%of the world's population and 2% of the US population...

Jews won the noble prizes:

* 776 Nobel Prizes have been awarded (758 to individuals and 18 to organizations)

At least 171 Jews and persons of half-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2005.

* Jewish Recipients of the US National Medal of Science (158 recipients, 37% of total)
* Jewish Recipients of the Kyoto Prize (25% of recipients)


*Jews invented the jeans - Levi Strauss
*Robert Adler - remote control
*Herman Aron - invented the electric meter
*Sylvan Goldman - shopping cart
*Johann Philipp Reis - inventor of telephone (built the first working phones)
*Samuel Ruben - inventor of Duracell mercury batteries
*Reinhold Rudenberg - electron microscope
On and on...

Jews contributed much nearly in every field, and for 0.25% of the world, thats one hell of a achievement.


Yeah probably the Nazis were right, the Jews are uncreative, are leeches, all have long noses and create evil in the world.

Written by APOHAKC on 18.01.2007 at 03:55

I had jewish grlfriend and their parents forbid her to e with me, it is shit, but this doesn't have any relation with this post

Sorry bout that, it isnt surprising though, they ( jews ) can be really elitest and Ive known people that would refuse to go out with a Goi ( gentile ) it does piss me off though.

In Israel Im starting to hate Judaism more and more, especially the orthodox ones, they are all on welfare and are paid with tax money from secular Israelis so that they can worship God and study torah. They are all unemployed and are parasites, everytime I see an orthodox jew I feel like asking him for all the money that went towards them from my monthly paycheck for the last year.

.

Written by APOHAKC on 18.01.2007 at 18:46

Bah, there are not many jews here, so she will harldly find jewish boyfriend, what pissed me off is that she wanted to be with me and my parents completly accepted her, but hers are some kind of morrons, haha they even called my Incarnation of Satan or something like that. I see her every day on institute and I am always glad to speak with her, she also doesn't like religion very much, especially she is very isolated here. That is a shame, maybe when they die...

It might just be her particular parents. I'm Jewish and I've never dated a Jewish guy. My parents don;t mind. Then again my father isn't Jewish.

As I remember the term "Shomer Negiya" (refrain from touch) is commonly applied to adolescent females for religious communities, modern orthodox arent that extreme though, which is good.

Im sorry but I didnt read all the posts so Im sorry if I repeat on someone
I did saw some poeple that said that not too many people died at the holocaust, first I suspect it but I askes mine hystory teacher about it and she explain that-
- the nazis had destroy lot of the documents.
- and the nazis had killed entire community of jewish that had'nt written any one separately and still they are founding.

and that makes it so much people that have been murdered


by the way Im jew..

You don't know really how many people were killed, no matter what documents say, and btw, I don't belive to any of them, nor Nazis nor Jews. History is written by winners and opposite viewed by losers, documents are written by someone which we don't know. Holocaust is very sensitive matter, and I think it is inappropriate for this forum, but if mods give green light, I am here to discuss about that.

I'll admit that I have only read the third page of this thread, but I read every post extensively...and my question to all of you is:

...What does any of this have to do with JUDAISM?

Written by SETHULHU on 27.08.2006 at 14:14

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

Do you deny Armenian genocide?

Written by APOHAKC on 06.09.2007 at 03:19

Written by SETHULHU on 27.08.2006 at 14:14

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

Do you deny Armenian genocide?

nope, i believe it did happen.. and know it did.

Ok then. I am glad, cause it did happen.

Glory to my Armenian brothers and sisters!

Written by SETHULHU on 27.08.2006 at 14:14

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

I think that's a highly ignorant statement. My grandparents are survivors of the Holocaust and all of their families perished within it. I have a photo of my grandmother weighing 56 pounds when it was over. I think you must believe everything you are told because of what you just stated..I don't see how someone could deny it any other way.

Written by Konrad on 13.08.2007 at 12:46

I'll admit that I have only read the third page of this thread, but I read every post extensively...and my question to all of you is:

...What does any of this have to do with JUDAISM?

The Jews perished in the Holocaust.

Written by Guest on 09.11.2007 at 06:43

Written by SETHULHU on 27.08.2006 at 14:14

so here comes my next question?if i deny the holocaust, will i become an anti-semite?i dont want that label because i DO DENY the holocaust. well not all of it, but some DID die, just not as much as we were told. far fa far and much much much less than we were told.

how about when the people deny the Armenian Genocice/Holocaut, shouldnt they be called anti-armenian or whatever race they are called?

I think that's a highly ignorant statement. My grandparents are survivors of the Holocaust and all of their families perished within it. I have a photo of my grandmother weighing 56 pounds when it was over. I think you must believe everything you are told because of what you just stated..I don't see how someone could deny it any other way.

Could you please explain why you think we must believe everything we are told? (as I think I may have misinterpreted your statement's intention).

I myself don't deny that there were many Jews killed, but like Sethulhu, I believe that the figures were slightly exaggerated. I don't think my opinion towards the holocaust however should have anything to do with anti-semitism. They are solely my opinion about a historical event, hence I don't see why it should have anything to do with racialism.

I could understand why someone would question the holocaust myself, especially if they don't know anyone that has been in camps or lived during that time. But I don't the figures are that surprising, seeing as so many nations suffered huge losses ( like Russia i.e. 20 million, thats just staggering ) and even IMO the holocaust included the also, very large amount of gypsies, homosexuals, mentally disabled, were also killed in millions in camps etc.

I don't think its Anti-Semitism, question what you will, thats something we have to do with every historical/tragic event. There are even jews that deny the holocaust, but they support Judaism etc. But I have bias towards them in a negative way, so thats just my opinion.

Written by Sunioj on 09.11.2007 at 15:08

I could understand why someone would question the holocaust myself, especially if they don't know anyone that has been in camps or lived during that time. But I don't the figures are that surprising, seeing as so many nations suffered huge losses ( like Russia i.e. 20 million, thats just staggering ) and even IMO the holocaust included the also, very large amount of gypsies, homosexuals, mentally disabled, were also killed in millions in camps etc.

I don't think its Anti-Semitism, question what you will, thats something we have to do with every historical/tragic event. There are even jews that deny the holocaust, but they support Judaism etc. But I have bias towards them in a negative way, so thats just my opinion.

Well of course I account the homosexuals, gypsies, metally ill, exc. into accounts. The figures generally say 12 million and half of that were Jews. I think the reason why it gets denied so much is because people dont realize how many Jews there actually were in Europe before the war. Most people havent even been exposed to the huge number of Jewish towns that simply got wiped out. I mean of course there will be Jews that deny the Holocaust. Being Jewish is like a culture. No matter what you believe about anything; you will always be Jewish if your mother is. I dont practise the Jewish faith but my mother is Jewish so that makes me Jewish. I just think people need to be aware and educated on the Holocaust or else something like this can happen again. I dont even mean to the Jews but to any race, religion, exc. Its been a long time since WWII and there is still such little tolerance in the world.