Written by Angelic Storm on 26.01.2011 at 23:19

Written by Guest on 26.01.2011 at 23:13
People in the inner city are more tolerant, for want of a better word, when it comes to the mavericks of society, well they gotta be, you can lose your job for having opinions these days :p

In my personal experience at least, that is not true. Also, most of the random attacks on "alternative people" seem to be in areas with a rife yob/chav/hoodie culture. I seem to recall a couple of years ago, a girl was killed purely because she was dressed in goth style clothes. (her boyfriend was also attacked, but he survived)

Ah that's quite shocking to me surprisingly, only reason I know the prejudice exists is because when I'm on the bus or train or whatever and I've got my music blazing I get weird stares from people

But that's understandable, how often does a built black guy stand there headbanging to some metal? lmfao.

If you are headbanging on the train, that is likely drawing the stares. i'm average size, white, short-hair, and in "regular" clothes most of the time. were i to headbang on a bus/train, i can guarantee i would draw stares.

i must admit i find it funny that people who dress in a manner that is couter to normal complain about drawing reactions from norms for their style. the entire point of it is "look at me! i'm different."

and i say this as someone who did dress up to the punk/metal/crossever stylee through the mid-90s.

Written by BitterCOld on 26.01.2011 at 23:47

If you are headbanging on the train, that is likely drawing the stares. i'm average size, white, short-hair, and in "regular" clothes most of the time. were i to headbang on a bus/train, i can guarantee i would draw stares.

i must admit i find it funny that people who dress in a manner that is couter to normal complain about drawing reactions from norms for their style. the entire point of it is "look at me! i'm different."

and i say this as someone who did dress up to the punk/metal/crossever stylee through the mid-90s.

I wouldnt headbang on a train, Im very reserved.

Although what you are saying is partly true, nobody deserves to be abused, physically attacked, or murdered just for dressing in a way that isnt considered "normal" to most people. The only thing that I ever wear that could be considered "not normal" is a metal shirt. But even just that, is likely to draw dirty looks from some people. People should be able to listen to whatever music they like, and dress how they like without being harassed for it.

Written by Angelic Storm on 26.01.2011 at 23:54


I wouldnt headbang on a train, Im very reserved.

Although what you are saying is partly true, nobody deserves to be abused, physically attacked, or murdered just for dressing in a way that isnt considered "normal" to most people. The only thing that I ever wear that could be considered "not normal" is a metal shirt. But even just that, is likely to draw dirty looks from some people. People should be able to listen to whatever music they like, and dress how they like without being harassed for it.

not sure where i advocated violence at folks for dressing differently. and i wonder at what point the victims of such attacks - be they verbal or physical - don't play a role in it. some are probably truly innocent, others might very well have helped escalate raised eyebrows to raised voices by copping attitude back.

and for fun, next time going to a gig, wear a shirt that is decidedly unmetal just to see how it goes.

i was a regular staple at the bar portion of the local "goth/rave/alternative" club in the 90s. enough of a staple that between the time i was getting my id check by the bouncer at the bar entry (bar was it's own wing of the dance club) and actually got to the bar, my beer was waiting for me.

for a lark, rather than the usual Ministry or punk shirt and black garb, or the occasional Rude Boy snapper, i wore a Hawaiin shirt and cargo shorts. needless to say the barfly crowd thought it funny, but the little gothbunnies and fat bob wanna-bes out in hte underage portion of the club gave me the same looks that metalheads here complain about.

just it's just a "one time at bandcamp" story, but it's true of anywhere. dress in a manner that is counter to the environment you are entering and you will draw looks, comments, and perhaps worse.

Written by BitterCOld on 27.01.2011 at 00:06
not sure where i advocated violence at folks for dressing differently. and i wonder at what point the victims of such attacks - be they verbal or physical - don't play a role in it. some are probably truly innocent, others might very well have helped escalate raised eyebrows to raised voices by copping attitude back.

I didnt say you did advocate it, I was just drawing a parallel between "people staring", and people who will react in more extreme ways to those who look different from themselves. Actually, over here there is quite a big problem with people just being randomly attacked. But definitely, if you are in any way different, whether that be how you dress, if you're disabled, or whatever else that could make you stand out, then you are more likely to be the victim of harassment. Certainly in the case I mentioned a couple of posts above, the only motive, was the way they were dressed.

Quote:
for a lark, rather than the usual Ministry or punk shirt and black garb, or the occasional Rude Boy snapper, i wore a Hawaiin shirt and cargo shorts. needless to say the barfly crowd thought it funny, but the little gothbunnies and fat bob wanna-bes out in hte underage portion of the club gave me the same looks that metalheads here complain about.

just it's just a "one time at bandcamp" story, but it's true of anywhere. dress in a manner that is counter to the environment you are entering and you will draw looks, comments, and perhaps worse.

That is of course true. I think why in general it is worse for metalheads/goths, is that in many communities they are a minority. (I myself, have never seen anyone dressed in metal/goth, or any type of "alternative" clothing where I live) If you are a minority in any society, there is a risk that you will have negative attention directed towards you. More so if you dress in a specific way, because it's an outward sign that you're different.

Written by Angelic Storm on 26.01.2011 at 23:00

In the UK at least, there definitely is still prejudice surrounding issues like clothing and metal. Especially if you happen to live in an area infested with chavs. (or neds where I live) Which if you happen to live in an urban/inner city area, the chances of that are being the case are high. Its certainly not unheard of for people in this country to be beaten up (or even worse) just for liking goth/metal and dressing in an "alternative" way. The prejudice might not be government sanctioned, like it is in some middle eastern countries, but there is still prejudice in our general society regarding those things.

Somebody got murdered for dressing in a gothic style by a group of chavs near where I live not that long ago. I've even been beaten up just for the way I dress in the past.

Edit: Just read a later post you made about the disgusting crime.

Written by Until the End on 27.01.2011 at 00:42
Somebody got murdered for dressing in a gothic style by a group of chavs near where I live not that long ago. I've even been beaten up just for the way I dress in the past.

Was that the murder I mentioned a few posts up? (Sophie Lancaster) Or was this a different incident? I haven't been beaten up, but I have been seen as "weird" and a figure of amusement by local neds/chavs. And have had verbal insults directed at me just because of how I look.

Yeah, the town where it happened's only about 10 miles away from where I live.

It's only chavs that seem to be the problem though. That being said, chavs have a problem with anyone, even their own kind!

I've been verbally insulted on several occasions. The usuals are "goff" and "mosher" although every now and then there'll be some unsavoury expletives thrown in for good measure. I can safely say I don't go around shouting "chav" at every one I see. If I did I'd be shouting a lot... a hell of a lot!

Written by Until the End on 27.01.2011 at 01:08

Yeah, the town where it happened's only about 10 miles away from where I live.

It's only chavs that seem to be the problem though. That being said, chavs have a problem with anyone, even their own kind!

I've been verbally insulted on several occasions. The usuals are "goff" and "mosher" although every now and then there'll be some unsavoury expletives thrown in for good measure. I can safely say I don't go around shouting "chav" at every one I see. If I did I'd be shouting a lot... a hell of a lot!

Yep, Ive never had any problem from anyone other than chavs. They are generally horrible beings anyway, but certainly if you look in any way different, they will be more likely to have a go at you. Or if you seem vulnerable. Apparently "moshers" was the exact term used to describe the victims by their attackers when they bragged about the incident later on to friends. You'd also probably just be asking to get a beating if you went around shouting "chav" at them. So you definitely have your head screwed on right by not going about doing that. lol

I remember one time when I was down in London, I was stood on the train station and I looked up at the clock to check the time. There was this chav type male stood in between me and the clock and after about 2 seconds of me looking up I got an earful of, "What is you lookin' at?". I replied simply with, "The time." and he quickly shut his trap.

Everything that you described above can be explained as "sticking out from crowd" syndrome

I'm pretty sure the guy was just trying to provoke a reaction. If I'd have said something like "what?" or "pardon?" then he'd more than likely have had a go at me.

Written by Until the End on 27.01.2011 at 02:34

I'm pretty sure the guy was just trying to provoke a reaction. If I'd have said something like "what?" or "pardon?" then he'd more than likely have had a go at me.

But that is also what comes with "sticking out of the crowd"....
anyway you played smart on that one...

Written by Until the End on 27.01.2011 at 01:46

I remember one time when I was down in London, I was stood on the train station and I looked up at the clock to check the time. There was this chav type male stood in between me and the clock and after about 2 seconds of me looking up I got an earful of, "What is you lookin' at?". I replied simply with, "The time." and he quickly shut his trap.

Well, you used the term "chav male" in the singular, so it's not really surprising that he did no more than say that to you. Most chavs are cowards at heart, which is why they almost always attack in gangs. Most of them would be nothing, and would do nothing, if they didnt have a load of their chav mates to back them up.

Written by Angelic Storm on 27.01.2011 at 04:16

Well, you used the term "chav male" in the singular, so it's not really surprising that he did no more than say that to you. Most chavs are cowards at heart, which is why they almost always attack in gangs. Most of them would be nothing, and would do nothing, if they didnt have a load of their chav mates to back them up.

Or a knife in their pocket. I agree about the gang thing, when I got attacked it was by several of them and not just one person. For a good while after that had happened I wasn't at ease with being outside on my own but as the time's passed I've regained my confidence. Still, I'll always be wary whenever I see groups of them.

Written by Until the End on 27.01.2011 at 05:01

Written by Angelic Storm on 27.01.2011 at 04:16

Well, you used the term "chav male" in the singular, so it's not really surprising that he did no more than say that to you. Most chavs are cowards at heart, which is why they almost always attack in gangs. Most of them would be nothing, and would do nothing, if they didnt have a load of their chav mates to back them up.

Or a knife in their pocket. I agree about the gang thing, when I got attacked it was by several of them and not just one person. For a good while after that had happened I wasn't at ease with being outside on my own but as the time's passed I've regained my confidence. Still, I'll always be wary whenever I see groups of them.

Or use a knife and cut their leader...as soon as he fall other will get scared and run away....
I don't recommend this in a cases when they are in truly large numbers,when they are well armed,and when you don't know how to fight with a knife in your hands
But this sort of tactics usually works on any "alpha male"based groups ...

It's strange that I live in London [North as well lol] and I've never had a problem with Chavs, wearing a metal shirt I may get some stares but they don't take it further than that.

Written by Guest on 27.01.2011 at 14:08

It's strange that I live in London [North as well lol] and I've never had a problem with Chavs, wearing a metal shirt I may get some stares but they don't take it further than that.

London is a big city. I dont think every street in London is going to have the exact same problem with chavs. Some areas are worse than others, that's just the way of it. But certainly, the poorer the area is, the higher chance of there is of directly experiencing yob culture. Its normally only run down estates that experience a lot of trouble with gangs, and intimidation by thugs. Obviously, there are exceptions to that rule, but generally, that is the way it goes. This makes it worse, because the run down areas are usually the ones that the authorities care least about, and they're just left to rot. I read a while back in my local paper about a woman in my street who suffered long term, systematic harassment from a gang of local youths. Although I have experienced harassment myself, it has never been on that level. But it is something that I have a lot of fear about happening. Because there is a definite problem here with yob culture, and gangs.

Written by Angelic Storm on 27.01.2011 at 14:23

Written by Guest on 27.01.2011 at 14:08

It's strange that I live in London [North as well lol] and I've never had a problem with Chavs, wearing a metal shirt I may get some stares but they don't take it further than that.

London is a big city. I dont think every street in London is going to have the exact same problem with chavs. Some areas are worse than others, that's just the way of it. But certainly, the poorer the area is, the higher chance of there is of directly experiencing yob culture. Its normally only run down estates that experience a lot of trouble with gangs, and intimidation by thugs. Obviously, there are exceptions to that rule, but generally, that is the way it goes. This makes it worse, because the run down areas are usually the ones that the authorities care least about, and they're just left to rot. I read a while back in my local paper about a woman in my street who suffered long term, systematic harassment from a gang of local youths. Although I have experienced harassment myself, it has never been on that level. But it is something that I have a lot of fear about happening. Because there is a definite problem here with yob culture, and gangs.

I guess there is

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 01:58
I guess there is

You wouldnt know.

Written by Angelic Storm on 28.01.2011 at 02:04

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 01:58
I guess there is

You wouldnt know.

Can't say I've ever experienced an incident for this particular matter concerning gangs/chavs, no, or any other matter really.

Written by Guest on 27.01.2011 at 14:08

It's strange that I live in London [North as well lol] and I've never had a problem with Chavs, wearing a metal shirt I may get some stares but they don't take it further than that.

What is Chavas?
IMO London you might get beet up if yoiu wear Millwall T shirt in Chelsea or have are Spurs t shirt when ICF are on streets
easyer get beet up because of football how dresses?

Is there any problems if men has a long hair and they dress metal? same whit it in bars, night clubs, streets?

Written by Bad English on 28.01.2011 at 02:13

Written by Guest on 27.01.2011 at 14:08

It's strange that I live in London [North as well lol] and I've never had a problem with Chavs, wearing a metal shirt I may get some stares but they don't take it further than that.

What is Chavas?
IMO London you might get beet up if yoiu wear Millwall T shirt in Chelsea or have are Spurs t shirt when ICF are on streets
easyer get beet up because of football how dresses?

Is there any problems if men has a long hair and they dress metal? same whit it in bars, night clubs, streets?

I don't actually have what an operational definition of what a Chav is to be honest, I just know them when I see them, Search 'Vicky Pollard' in google and you'll see

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 02:15

I don't actually have what an operational definition of what a Chav is to be honest, I just know them when I see them, Search 'Vicky Pollard' in google and you'll see

I've got the picture...

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 02:10
Can't say I've ever experienced an incident for this particular matter concerning gangs/chavs, no, or any other matter really.

I guess it's just one of those things that if you've never experienced, you can't know what it's like. Which is why I think politicians don't treat the issue with the seriousness it deserves. And although I myself have experienced it, I know others have experienced it far worse than what I have. Nothing seems as bad when you dont have to live with it yourself.

I was also wondering what a chav was...I looked it up. They look kinda similar to the people here who hop trains. We call those crusties. They are literally crusty and fucking disgusting!

It seems like chav females dress like sluts and that chav males dress like wiggers (look that up if you don't know what that is) and that they all like to get drunk and fuck with the public.

Here are some jokes I found about chavs:
For protection during sex chavs usually use a bus shelter.

A chav in a white shell suit is probably the bride.

A chav in a suit is called the accused.

A Chav in a nice house is known as a burglar.

Two Chavs in a car without any music usually means the police are driving.



In the US, I think the main problem sub-culture we have are ghetto hoodrats. They're normally african american and are always involved in some sort of crime. Of course, there are others who also commit crimes.

Written by MetallicA on 29.01.2011 at 04:05

I was also wondering what a chav was...I looked it up. They look kinda similar to the people here who hop trains. We call those crusties. They are literally crusty and fucking disgusting!

It seems like chav females dress like sluts and that chav males dress like wiggers (look that up if you don't know what that is) and that they all like to get drunk and fuck with the public.

Here are some jokes I found about chavs:
For protection during sex chavs usually use a bus shelter.

A chav in a white shell suit is probably the bride.

A chav in a suit is called the accused.

A Chav in a nice house is known as a burglar.

Two Chavs in a car without any music usually means the police are driving.



In the US, I think the main problem sub-culture we have are ghetto hoodrats. They're normally african american and are always involved in some sort of crime. Of course, there are others who also commit crimes.

If that's your main problem, the US is doing pretty damn good!

Written by Guest on 29.01.2011 at 04:13

If that's your main problem, the US is doing pretty damn good!

I guess I should have wrote it like 'our main-problem-subculture' lol

Well, it is a pretty big problem. They're the ones who are always robbing banks, stealing cars (even from eachother), mugging people, often killing people & eachother (we had one recently who killed some innocent teenager by slitting his throat in a crowded train station over a CELL PHONE! ridiculous!), dealing drugs...they create alot of problems.

If you couldn't tell from my post above, my boyfriend is a cop and his jurisdiction covers a large area...it has some nice parts and some horrible parts. As would be expected, most of the crimes he reports are caused by these people and they're usually located in the bad parts of town. They just need to kill eachother off! Same goes for the chavs and any other lawless asshole whose main desire is to create strife for others at another's expense. What a bunch of useless people. Ahhh!

I think the problem is worse in the UK mainly, because of the slack law system, and a police force who have no real powers to stop the gang/yob culture. Usually only once somone is killed, will they treat the issue with any real importance. Unlike the US, most chavs are white, not black. At least here in Glasgow, which is where I live (and they are called neds here instead of chavs) I only ever see young native Scots causing all the trouble. Just last night, there was about a 20 strong gang of them on the bicycle track across from my flat, and they were making an ungodly racket. Screaming and ranting at a very high volume. Its rare I get any peace living here, especially at night and the weekends.

Speaking of the physical assault by chavs on the goths which resulted in the death of one, I recall seeing a video (animation) of Glasgow neds murdering a goth. I dont think it was in anyway related to the actual incident, but it's still chilling to watch nonetheless.

Written by MetallicA on 29.01.2011 at 04:41

Written by Guest on 29.01.2011 at 04:13

If that's your main problem, the US is doing pretty damn good!

I guess I should have wrote it like 'our main-problem-subculture' lol

Well, it is a pretty big problem. They're the ones who are always robbing banks, stealing cars (even from eachother), mugging people, often killing people & eachother (we had one recently who killed some innocent teenager by slitting his throat in a crowded train station over a CELL PHONE! ridiculous!), dealing drugs...they create alot of problems.

If you couldn't tell from my post above, my boyfriend is a cop and his jurisdiction covers a large area...it has some nice parts and some horrible parts. As would be expected, most of the crimes he reports are caused by these people and they're usually located in the bad parts of town. They just need to kill eachother off! Same goes for the chavs and any other lawless asshole whose main desire is to create strife for others at another's expense. What a bunch of useless people. Ahhh!

All we need now is a dictator hell bent on 'cleansing' the planet and the cast is complete