BloodTears ANA-thema elitePosts: 11835 |
Enlightening.
It is not often that I read, at least oustide the theoretical and literary frame, texts that posit a different perspective on religion.
I find it interesting that you found analogies within the realm of metal and christianity, whereas most approches would tend to find and explore oppositions.
Actually when I was walking home, I saw a priest, a young priest, and he had a beard. He had the collar and normal jeans. And I thought "could he be a metalhead?". lol
Somehow I don't think it is incompatible.
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Bad English Tage Westerlund
Posts: 61009 |
Man how can I joun to your church?
Well I agree about ''you live in two worlds and both despise you'' its truth seems you're outlaw in botah side in front, but for me it dosnt metter I dont care what other says. Dont want me in concert fine, but even you're metalhead non will kick you out from church if you are believer
I agree about it why people dont fight against hip hop? IMO those anti staff people are narrow minded, who still lives at 19th century and are against anuthing new even running watter
We will see who's sinner after life because , many of those religiuss folks are more sinners how many metalheads
Sin we lost menaing of sin, just lost like meaning of all nowdays
but we all are mortals, die faster or leither and how we live and where we go we will see and I dont care what people say about me in boath sides , simply dont care, if they dont like me , fine whit me, but one day we all can open this discussion in afterlife. We will see where each of us go and who's living whit sin,
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.
Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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Bad English Tage Westerlund
Posts: 61009 |
Written by BloodTears on 07.07.2009 at 20:07
Actually when I was walking home, I saw a priest, a young priest, and he had a beard. He had the collar and normal jeans. And I thought "could he be a metalhead?". lol
LOL orthodox priests has berad n hair
Well might be, because priest can like music and some might like metal
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.
Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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RockeRoy
Posts: 641 |
I tell you another thing that is wrong with this world and that is religion. i have nothing against people who are christians, i have several friends who are, but the antidote ain't beliving in jesus, it is Accepting things for what it is, belive in your self, learn from your experiences and share your love.
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You found god? If nobody claims him in thirty days, he's yours
Walk with me in hell
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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck elitePosts: 40071 |
The following is a stereotype I totally disagree with:
Here is a culture that is almost entirely comprised of social outcasts and broken people
Maybe it's the metal circles I move in, but withing those circles it is actually the opposite.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal
Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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Doc G. Full Grown Hoser staffPosts: 9718 |
Doc G.Full Grown HoserstaffPosts: 9718
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.07.2009 at 03:20
The following is a stereotype I totally disagree with:
Here is a culture that is almost entirely comprised of social outcasts and broken people
Maybe it's the metal circles I move in, but withing those circles it is actually the opposite.
Might be different in Europe as well...As much as I hate stereotypes it really does apply to my group of friends at least. For a while I would have disagreed with it, but after I got to know a lot my friends better I noticed we've all got some serious problems, I don't think its a coincidence we all grouped together and listen to angry music
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.07.2009 at 03:20
The following is a stereotype I totally disagree with:
Here is a culture that is almost entirely comprised of social outcasts and broken people
Maybe it's the metal circles I move in, but withing those circles it is actually the opposite.
I don't like stereotypes either. But stereotypes exist because they are based upon true facts. That is why I used the word 'almost' because I know plenty of Metalheads who are not totally FUBAR. At the same time I know a great deal more who have medium to sever problems.
Then again, most of the world has issues. It is the fact that Metalheads understand that there is something wrong. I mean, just listen to old Metallica albums, their lyrics are filled with those observations. Heck, I even have some problems that I still wrestle with on a daily basis.
As a Christian my world view encompasses the aspect that we are all broken in someway. None of us is 100% and we all need work in some area or another. That is a gist of that statement.
Other than for that, what were your thought of the rest of the article?
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(space for rent)
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Darkside Momo Retired elitePosts: 9087 |
Written by Dane Train on 08.07.2009 at 06:49
Other than for that, what were your thought of the rest of the article?
Well, I liked the fact that your viewpoint is pretty unorthodox for sure!!! Especially now that Hellfest once again has problems with stupid christian extremists...
However, I didn't really like the second half, because it sounded a bit like preaching. Well, at least to my ears.
Anyway I'm glad this article exist, just for the principle of expressing a different and interesting viewpoint on metal and religion.
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My Author's Blog (in French)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"
"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
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Powerslavex Alexskywalker
Posts: 777 |
Written by Bad English on 07.07.2009 at 21:05
Written by BloodTears on 07.07.2009 at 20:07
Actually when I was walking home, I saw a priest, a young priest, and he had a beard. He had the collar and normal jeans. And I thought "could he be a metalhead?". lol
LOL orthodox priests has berad n hair
Well might be, because priest can like music and some might like metal
Watch Heavy Metal Monk video on daily motion cool stuff
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Darkside Momo on 08.07.2009 at 12:26
Written by Dane Train on 08.07.2009 at 06:49
Other than for that, what were your thought of the rest of the article?
Well, I liked the fact that your viewpoint is pretty unorthodox for sure!!! Especially now that Hellfest once again has problems with stupid christian extremists...
However, I didn't really like the second half, because it sounded a bit like preaching. Well, at least to my ears.
Anyway I'm glad this article exist, just for the principle of expressing a different and interesting viewpoint on metal and religion.
I am just curious about you statement about my viewpoint being unorthodox. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I am just interested to hear more of your perspective on this manner.
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(space for rent)
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Darkside Momo Retired elitePosts: 9087 |
Written by Dane Train on 08.07.2009 at 18:02
I am just curious about you statement about my viewpoint being unorthodox. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I am just interested to hear more of your perspective on this manner.
Simply, unorthodox because, as you said, Christianity and metal aren't really supposed to fit well together. Just look at the reactions concerning Christian bands, or to the contrary just look at the christian fanatics trying to ban bands from playing and stuff.
So, a viewpoint that combines both is unorthodox, moreso if you take the root of the word (orthodoxy = the normal, 'right' way of the church).
This wasn't a critic of your idea(l)s, on the contrary as an ex-Christian I rather think your viewpoint is sound (in my miscreant way of thinking).
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My Author's Blog (in French)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"
"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Darkside Momo on 08.07.2009 at 21:09
Simply, unorthodox because, as you said, Christianity and metal aren't really supposed to fit well together. Just look at the reactions concerning Christian bands, or to the contrary just look at the christian fanatics trying to ban bands from playing and stuff.
So, a viewpoint that combines both is unorthodox, moreso if you take the root of the word (orthodoxy = the normal, 'right' way of the church).
This wasn't a critic of your idea(l)s, on the contrary as an ex-Christian I rather think your viewpoint is sound (in my miscreant way of thinking).
AH, got it. Thanks for the comment, I jusy wanted to see where you were coming from because several people on this site have said that I am unorthodox because of this. Maybe it is correct to say that I am conservative in my theology and liberal in my political/social thoughts (or as liberal as an anachist can get).
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(space for rent)
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Darkside Momo Retired elitePosts: 9087 |
Written by Dane Train on 08.07.2009 at 21:25
AH, got it. Thanks for the comment, I jusy wanted to see where you were coming from because several people on this site have said that I am unorthodox because of this. Maybe it is correct to say that I am conservative in my theology and liberal in my political/social thoughts (or as liberal as an anachist can get).
I wouldn't say conservative in any way, unless you consider that following a religion is conservative...
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My Author's Blog (in French)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"
"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Darkside Momo on 08.07.2009 at 21:28
I wouldn't say conservative in any way, unless you consider that following a religion is conservative...
What I mean by conservative theology is that I hold to the traditional doctrines that have been apart of Christianity from the begining. There is a good deal of liberal theology out there that says things like the Tinity can mean what ever you want it to mean. I've even met some people who call themselves "Christians" but don't believe that Jesus is Devine. Stuff like that.
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(space for rent)
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Darkside Momo Retired elitePosts: 9087 |
Written by Dane Train on 08.07.2009 at 21:50
What I mean by conservative theology is that I hold to the traditional doctrines that have been apart of Christianity from the begining. There is a good deal of liberal theology out there that says things like the Tinity can mean what ever you want it to mean. I've even met some people who call themselves "Christians" but don't believe that Jesus is Devine. Stuff like that.
OK, understood!
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My Author's Blog (in French)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"
"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
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Derwood
Posts: 511 |
Interesting article Dane. Something tells me there would be a lot less backlash against Christianity if more Christians shared some of your cultural perspectives. I've been down that road and found its not my calling, but I can respect that it is yours.
It's my experience that metalheads, at least the ones I know, are for the most part social misfits. I know I am, though I probably wouldn't strike you that way if you met me where I work (I manage a retail store). I have a wife and kids, coming up on our thirteenth anniversary. Actually, for my generation, being married that long (and both of us only married the once!) proves I'm a social outcast.
Your take on the crossover significance between metal and Christianity of the notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with the world is an interesting one, though of course I draw a different conclusion as to what it is.
I'm glad I took the time to read this.
I hate to nitpick, but you might want to get to know the difference between "alter" (change) and "altar" (a table used for religious rites). I'm not generally a grammar nazi, but that one's a major pet peeve
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You can't fight evil with a macaroni duck!
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Derwood on 11.07.2009 at 07:40
Interesting article Dane. Something tells me there would be a lot less backlash against Christianity if more Christians shared some of your cultural perspectives. I've been down that road and found its not my calling, but I can respect that it is yours.
Thanks for that comment. I can totally understand this statement. While there are so many "Christians" out there who seem to do more harm then good there are also many who are truly stiving to fullfill the message of Christ. I've found that so much of it has to do with the media, as the love to portray Christians and arrogant, dumb and judgemental. There is no denying that there are people like that with Christianity. It just amazes me how most people think of folk like Pat Robertson and not Mother Theresa.
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(space for rent)
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Darkside Momo Retired elitePosts: 9087 |
Written by Dane Train on 12.07.2009 at 20:52
It just amazes me how most people think of folk like Pat Robertson and not Mother Theresa.
Who's this guy? A televangelist?
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My Author's Blog (in French)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"
"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
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Derwood
Posts: 511 |
Written by Dane Train on 12.07.2009 at 20:52
Thanks for that comment. I can totally understand this statement. While there are so many "Christians" out there who seem to do more harm then good there are also many who are truly stiving to fullfill the message of Christ. I've found that so much of it has to do with the media, as the love to portray Christians and arrogant, dumb and judgemental. There is no denying that there are people like that with Christianity. It just amazes me how most people think of folk like Pat Robertson and not Mother Theresa.
Even more amazing to me are the number of fundamentalist Evangelicals (SBC, for example) who will tell you that Mother Theresa wasn't even a Christian because she was Catholic and will then laude the likes of Pat Robertson as an outstanding example of a modern Christian.
You are right about the media bias, though. Mainstream media does like to pick out the most vocal and least tolerant types of Christians and portray them as the face of modern Christianity. You know, the ones who are the reason "Jesus, save me from your followers" has become a rather popular bumper sticker.
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You can't fight evil with a macaroni duck!
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Valentin B Iconoclast
Posts: 10084 |
Written by BloodTears on 07.07.2009 at 20:07
Enlightening.
It is not often that I read, at least oustide the theoretical and literary frame, texts that posit a different perspective on religion.
I find it interesting that you found analogies within the realm of metal and christianity, whereas most approches would tend to find and explore oppositions.
Actually when I was walking home, I saw a priest, a young priest, and he had a beard. He had the collar and normal jeans. And I thought "could he be a metalhead?". lol
yeah like Bad English said, some orthodox priests have beards and long hair(and they wear it in a pony tail) aaaaand they can get married before becoming priests, and are even encouraged to do so to act as council to married couples, plus when they see the altar boy, they don't think "it's been 40 years now, and i'm sure he won't mind, hell, he might even like it!" and begin to do ....inappropriate things.... with them.
cool huh?
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thesabbathfan
Posts: 410 |
Great article, I myself am non-religious (I do believe in a creator of some form, whether it be energy, a God, Goddess, etc etc), though I find the idea of an after life and that we're being watched by the creator to be a bit... impossible. I fucking hate mainstream religion, I hate the holier-than-thou-art followers of it, but of course, I haven't a problem with the open-minded ones.
To be honest though, I know little to nothing about Jesus's actual life. I know that he wasn't actually born on Christmas but rather around October, but not much other than that... and I extremely doubt that much of what the Bible says about Jesus is true.
Even still, here's my view on God/Satan: I doubt that a God would've even created hell, or even an evil counterpart, if he really wanted people to follow him. Having, said that, take a look a todays America, not at all what it seems on the surface. The people are blind, they think they're free, though they follow the most tyrannical of rulers (Wal-Mart, wall street, Disney [lulz], and I'm starting to think Obama's an illuminati douche too) and many will follow without question the word of their "God".
The whole idea of that entire situation seems very... evil, doesn't it? Then think, hmm, maybe the deity that's been on top for thousands of years is nothing but a FRAUD, and the actual savior is the one who's hated and cast out *coughsatancough*, the one who claims to bring freedom to an oppressed land...
Funny, how America is, ruled by a possibly-imaginary tyrant who controls them by misleading them....
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DayFly
Posts: 383 |
Regarding album burnings I'd have to say, best thing that can happen to a band. To burn the albums one has to buy them first as Rob Halford pointed out (or was it Ozzy? Can't remember) and it also gives great publicity.
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BitterCOld The Ancient One adminPosts: 15250 |
Written by thesabbathfan on 14.07.2009 at 22:13
Funny, how America is, ruled by a possibly-imaginary tyrant who controls them by misleading them....
no. sadly Obama is real enough.
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Smurfophagist
Posts: 1069 |
Written by Valentin B on 13.07.2009 at 08:46
Written by BloodTears on 07.07.2009 at 20:07
Enlightening.
It is not often that I read, at least oustide the theoretical and literary frame, texts that posit a different perspective on religion.
I find it interesting that you found analogies within the realm of metal and christianity, whereas most approches would tend to find and explore oppositions.
Actually when I was walking home, I saw a priest, a young priest, and he had a beard. He had the collar and normal jeans. And I thought "could he be a metalhead?". lol
yeah like Bad English said, some orthodox priests have beards and long hair(and they wear it in a pony tail) aaaaand they can get married before becoming priests, and are even encouraged to do so to act as council to married couples, plus when they see the altar boy, they don't think "it's been 40 years now, and i'm sure he won't mind, hell, he might even like it!" and begin to do ....inappropriate things.... with them.
cool huh?
yup, but the majority of these orthodox priests in serbia blessed the rifles and knives of chetnik soldiers and encouraged them to slaughter them damn catholics. yes, mostly civilians. photos of these acts leaked in public some time ago.
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Having a signature is an absolute must.
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Torelli
Posts: 1280 |
"For most people in American churches the story went like this: There is this magic hippie in the sky and if you have a really good nervous breakdown at the front of the church you'll be saved (but we don't have time to explain what that means) then you can join the youth group and something about some great new friends and a t-shirt?..sound familiar?"
Reminded me of this... Consequensly, I happens to own one, as it was a present from a friend.
Anyway, it's quite clear that metal not only attracts agnostics or athiests, but also theists. Your church or the book Heavy Metal Islam is an example of that. Speaking of that book, do you know any book that takes up christanity and metal in a simular fashion?
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bloodwrage Pagan Angel
Posts: 444
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Written by BitterCOld on 16.07.2009 at 23:42
Written by thesabbathfan on 14.07.2009 at 22:13
Funny, how America is, ruled by a possibly-imaginary tyrant who controls them by misleading them....
no. sadly Obama is real enough.
Naw, he's a robot. No one could be that cruel.
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Dane Train Beers & Kilts elitePosts: 8902 |
Written by Torelli on 19.07.2009 at 21:59
Reminded me of this... Consequensly, I happens to own one, as it was a present from a friend.
I've been waiting for the English translation of that to come out. I'm planning on getting one, and if I like it, I'll order several hundred. What can you tell me about it?
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(space for rent)
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treptolemus aphotic_zoning
Posts: 207 |
Well dear friend,
I read your article (quick scan to be honest!) and from that, i understand at a degree the "texture" of what you mean. I'd like to tell you that i'm also christian (and from strict denomination-Orthodoxy=Eastern christendom). So far so good... the "problem" with that kind of stuff is when someone is beginning to search the whole thing that is called "Religion"...And the bitterness begins.... we discover (here we cry all together!) that:
religion almost wiped out Europe (the unforgettable dark ages-suppression of science & logic-burning times-witchhunting) - our ancestors murdered (because of their pagan beliefs or not) on the stake for the sake of "religion" - the "happy times" of excursions to the eastern lands (crusades - let's slay the infidels & bathe in their blood!) - pogroms of the past (kill the infidels that prosper at countries (Jews) & the holocaust of 1940-more than 60 millions dead) - destruction of monuments of humanity (Athens-Parthenonas) from fanatic monks-priests - betrayals and alliances with dictators (this has left an awful mark to my country that still today we feel the immense pain that has left, believe me...)- the outrageous profits from "humble monks" at monasteries (off-shore companies, hotels, business of million euros!) - fundamentalists keep exploding in the middle-east - unbelievable exploitation of women (no big deal, all monotheistic "religions" like that)... and...and...and...and....
But what we do when we discover, that all this madness is just a fairy tale that symbolically served the purposes of societies of the bronze age??? Do we really need religion today (organized - by representatives, so-called priests, men of the clothe) - is it helpful to us? Will we keep fighting for beliefs of the past (2009 & the battle rages on!) will we (simple citizens of this beautiful blue planet) keep supporting and justifying this schizophrenia? (apparently in the name of god!)
Well don't get me wrong, as I told you I'm Christian. (Baptized when I was an infant, no chances at all! ) but when it comes in terms of religion & metal?sorry no compromise! (they've taken more than we've received - as M.Akerfeldt would say!)
P.S : All these in a completely friendly mood (I've seen people fighting ridiculously at forums for these matters, please not here at Metalstorm!)
P.S 2: All should watch the entertaining movie Religulous (2008). Trust me?:)
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\m/etalstor\m/
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Torelli
Posts: 1280 |
Written by Dane Train on 06.09.2009 at 02:12
Written by Torelli on 19.07.2009 at 21:59
Reminded me of this... Consequensly, I happens to own one, as it was a present from a friend.
I've been waiting for the English translation of that to come out. I'm planning on getting one, and if I like it, I'll order several hundred. What can you tell me about it?
Well, if you are searching for a great tealogical study, I'm afraid you are going to be disapointed. But if you are intrested to read testomonies of metal artists and their way from non-belivers to a beliver of Jesus Christ and God, it could be of intrest. Other then the testimonies, it contains the new testament. Personaly, I see it as only as a cheap marketing trick, I recomend you to go forth with the bible(s) you're currently using.
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Troy Killjoy perfunctionist staffPosts: 21306 |
I just stumbled upon this article and thought I'd say it's one of my favorite pieces featured on this site. I have a terrible relationship with religion (specifically Christianity/Islam) as a result of extremism, but your doctrine seems to be more understandable and it's something I can respect, if not admire. Many statements you made are true, from Christianity and metal's supposed inability to coexist, to most members of the metal community being more or less ostracized (sometimes by our own subconscious desire). Thanks for publishing this, it was enlightening and a joy to read.
Keep it metal Christian! haha
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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