Prog rock or progressive hard rock is probably the only kind of commercial music I really enjoy. I never listen to radio or musical TV chains like Muchmusic.

In fact, I listen almost exclusively to metal music since two decades for the simple reason that no other kind of music gives me the same feeling as metal does.

Written by Lord_Regnier on 21.04.2009 at 06:02

Prog rock or progressive hard rock is probably the only kind of commercial music I really enjoy. I never listen to radio or musical TV chains like Muchmusic.

In fact, I listen almost exclusively to metal music since two decades for the simple reason that no other kind of music gives me the same feeling as metal does.

Metal is just as, if not more, commercial than Prog Rock ever has been.

By 'commercial music', I meant music that is soft enough to play on radio at every hour of the day.

Written by Lord_Regnier on 21.04.2009 at 13:54

By 'commercial music', I meant music that is soft enough to play on radio at every hour of the day.

Would you give example of the kind of music you're mentioning; prog-rock is for me one of least commercial music.

Written by Guest on 21.04.2009 at 17:05

Written by Lord_Regnier on 21.04.2009 at 13:54

By 'commercial music', I meant music that is soft enough to play on radio at every hour of the day.

Would you give example of the kind of music you're mentioning; prog-rock is for me one of least commercial music.

I agree. I hear Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Soundgarden, Def Lepard, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, etc. on the radio far more than ELP or Yes.

Gentle giant is the greatest prog rock band ever!!! imo

octopus and in a glass house ftw

Rush?

Sort of obvious, but porcupine tree, gentle giant, king crimson, Anekdoten, Änglagård, Landberk and Pär Lindh Project, Planet X, The Mars Volta, MAUDLIN OF THE WELL DEFINITELY!!!!! (although more avant garde metal), kayo dot, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Ulva, Mr Bungle, No-Man, Pineapple Thief, Karnivool.
Go any of those, some may not be what you're looking fo, but check them out nonetheless.

If you liked Cynic, Masdoval is involved with progressive rock band Aeon Spoke.

Shameless self promotion here...

Enochian Theory
:-)
(New album is out 12th March.)

Also,

Jurojin - 'The Dreaming' being a particularly good track from their debut record.
Animals As Leaders - maybe a bit too heavy for 'prog rock'...but still excellent.

I could go on...But here's something to discuss.

What defines 'prog' music?
Is it long songs about rabbits and fairies...or is it the overwhelming technical complexity of a song?
Or is it something from a myriad of subjective ideas?
I'm always interested in finding out what people class as 'prog' music.

I was discussing Soundgarden with a friend and we agreed that they were quite 'proggy' from the musical aspect...yet straddled that 'big time rock' fence well.
And so this discussion started...
Carry on...
:-)

Written by Ethereal Tantrum on 15.02.2012 at 17:28

What defines 'prog' music?

I think of long songs, time changes and very technical structure. Intelligent music.

Written by tea[m]ster on 20.02.2012 at 07:28

Written by Ethereal Tantrum on 15.02.2012 at 17:28

What defines 'prog' music?

I think of long songs, time changes and very technical structure. Intelligent music.

long songs is not always necessary or the very technical structure; it's supposed to be experimental, polirhythmic, unusual structures (disobeying the verse-chorus-verse-bridge-chorus structure). IMO.

Written by tea[m]ster on 20.02.2012 at 07:28

Written by Ethereal Tantrum on 15.02.2012 at 17:28

What defines 'prog' music?

Intelligent music.

Don't know if this was intentional or just a bad choice of words but that part of your comment sounds so elitist it's laughable. Like if other genres are less intelligent just because they play another style.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 20.02.2012 at 22:41

Don't know if this was intentional or just a bad choice of words but that part of your comment sounds so elitist it's laughable. Like if other genres are less intelligent just because they play another style.

Probably the latter. But let's be honest, their's no denying prog music is much more complex than other genres and if I'm going into a "let's write complex music" battle my team will have Neil Peart, Jim Matheos, Steve Wilson, Arno Menses and Mike Akerfeldt. Not saying other genre's aren't intelligent or don't have well-written songs.

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.02.2012 at 01:08

Written by X-Ray Rod on 20.02.2012 at 22:41

Don't know if this was intentional or just a bad choice of words but that part of your comment sounds so elitist it's laughable. Like if other genres are less intelligent just because they play another style.

Probably the latter. But let's be honest, their's no denying prog music is much more complex than other genres and if I'm going into a "let's write complex music" battle my team will have Neil Peart, Jim Matheos, Steve Wilson, Arno Menses and Mike Akerfeldt. Not saying other genre's aren't intelligent or don't have well-written songs.

Something being complex doesn't make it intelligent.

Ah this old argument Inevitable in a prog thread I suppose.
Prog for me is more about creativity than intelligence. I would say prog is more creative (my own opinion of course) not more intelligent. There is some pretty unintelligent music out there in the world, prog is no exception.

Prog doesn't raise your IQ but it does raise your attention span, attention to detail and it requires a bit of bravado to stick with a piece of music which may prove an utter waste of time in the hope of getting something worthwhile out of it. While the whole 'grow on you' factor is at play in many other genres, in prog it's more usually a clear division between whether it's going to get better after repeated listens or it's still going to sound like a load of complex yet uninteresting music.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's generally the case that prog doesn't really 'grab you' from the get go as often as you might get with other genres.

Written by R'Vannith on 21.02.2012 at 15:15

Ah this old argument Inevitable in a prog thread I suppose.
Prog for me is more about creativity than intelligence. I would say prog is more creative (my own opinion of course) not more intelligent. There is some pretty unintelligent music out there in the world, prog is no exception.

Prog doesn't raise your IQ but it does raise your attention span, attention to detail and it requires a bit of bravado to stick with a piece of music which may prove an utter waste of time in the hope of getting something worthwhile out of it. While the whole 'grow on you' factor is at play in many other genres, in prog it's more usually a clear division between whether it's going to get better after repeated listens or it's still going to sound like a load of complex yet uninteresting music.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's generally the case that prog doesn't really 'grab you' from the get go as often as you might get with other genres.

I agree with most of your points here. A lot of genres get away with their elitists, but if a progster is an elitist, that suddenly reaffirms the age old stereotypes that we all are; in the mean time, I don't remember crossing paths with a lot of them on prog threads. Teamster isn't an elitist, but because he chose to describe prog music as intelligent, that translates to other people as "PROG IS SURPREME INTELLIGENT MUSIC FOR INTELLIGENT PEOPLE, PROG POWAAAAA". I think that's an adjective just like any other.

The thing I love the most about prog is that it's conventional enough to follow (some of) its own guidelines at all times, so I know the kind of thing I'm about to get (just like you said, I know good prog from bad prog pretty much 10 minutes into the album); but yet its base was designed to be unconventional. And I like that predictable unpredictability. It is a fine balance that you don't get while going full-on avant, for example.

I think the "hard to get into" facet of prog is vastly overrated. Maybe my brain is naturally wired to derive pleasure from odd time signatures and similar, so I don't get people who say it's pointless or whatever. When you listen to a prog album for the first time, you're being taken places, and it is meant for you to be excited about the ride. The second time, you already know approximately how it was going, the dynamic pieces give you adrenaline, the soft give you bliss, you dig into the combo a bit more and you're just a bit more familiar with the groove. That's all it takes. A couple of listens. Just with any other album. The only difference is that (stereotypically), because of the (assumed) complexity of the music, you have more nuggets to uncover with each listen.

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.02.2012 at 01:08
But let's be honest, their's no denying prog music is much more complex than other genres

So what? That is completely irrelevant to the subject. Music being complex doesn't mean it's intelligent and the other way around is true too.

Written by Milena on 21.02.2012 at 15:53

Written by R'Vannith on 21.02.2012 at 15:15

Ah this old argument Inevitable in a prog thread I suppose.
Prog for me is more about creativity than intelligence. I would say prog is more creative (my own opinion of course) not more intelligent. There is some pretty unintelligent music out there in the world, prog is no exception.

Prog doesn't raise your IQ but it does raise your attention span, attention to detail and it requires a bit of bravado to stick with a piece of music which may prove an utter waste of time in the hope of getting something worthwhile out of it. While the whole 'grow on you' factor is at play in many other genres, in prog it's more usually a clear division between whether it's going to get better after repeated listens or it's still going to sound like a load of complex yet uninteresting music.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's generally the case that prog doesn't really 'grab you' from the get go as often as you might get with other genres.

I agree with most of your points here. A lot of genres get away with their elitists, but if a progster is an elitist, that suddenly reaffirms the age old stereotypes that we all are; in the mean time, I don't remember crossing paths with a lot of them on prog threads. Teamster isn't an elitist, but because he chose to describe prog music as intelligent, that translates to other people as "PROG IS SURPREME INTELLIGENT MUSIC FOR INTELLIGENT PEOPLE, PROG POWAAAAA". I think that's an adjective just like any other.

The thing I love the most about prog is that it's conventional enough to follow (some of) its own guidelines at all times, so I know the kind of thing I'm about to get (just like you said, I know good prog from bad prog pretty much 10 minutes into the album); but yet its base was designed to be unconventional. And I like that predictable unpredictability. It is a fine balance that you don't get while going full-on avant, for example.

I think the "hard to get into" facet of prog is vastly overrated. Maybe my brain is naturally wired to derive pleasure from odd time signatures and similar, so I don't get people who say it's pointless or whatever. When you listen to a prog album for the first time, you're being taken places, and it is meant for you to be excited about the ride. The second time, you already know approximately how it was going, the dynamic pieces give you adrenaline, the soft give you bliss, you dig into the combo a bit more and you're just a bit more familiar with the groove. That's all it takes. A couple of listens. Just with any other album. The only difference is that (stereotypically), because of the (assumed) complexity of the music, you have more nuggets to uncover with each listen.

The whole "hard to get into" thing is warranted, I think, given the inclusion of unconventional elements. Prog does follow conventions, part of which is to throw in stuff which is new and 'different'. But I think you're right, it is fairly exaggerated. It isn't, however, something I'd abandon altogether. There are quite a few genres which, I think, generally stick to a more rigid pattern. Unconventional and original stuff might appear in said genres but generally as it is not part of their conventions to place as much emphasis on the unconventional as prog does this gives the impression that it isn't as straightforward as other genres.

In genres that follow these more rigid patterns familiarity with the music may come easier for some as it's similarity is, generally, more obvious than in prog. But you are right again, even within genres which seem to follow these more stable structures you get music which still requires some time to appreciate fully, just as in prog. So perhaps it is all an illusion some proggers afford themselves. I'm guilty of this, yet I still stand by my opinion that prog isn't as easy to appreciate as other genres, simply because of so many unconventional things going on.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.02.2012 at 15:59

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.02.2012 at 01:08
But let's be honest, their's no denying prog music is much more complex than other genres

So what? That is completely irrelevant to the subject. Music being complex doesn't mean it's intelligent and the other way around is true too.

I'm not so sure about this, complexity would involve a fair amount of intelligence I would think, or at least a lot of 'know how'. So perhaps musical proficiency would be more at play than intelligence? But I guess that would imply that the complexity of prog is always a musically proficient thing, often it's not, just a heap of uninteresting stuff.

Is complexity any indication at all of intelligence? And for that matter what does 'intelligence' in music mean?

Written by R'Vannith on 21.02.2012 at 16:38

prog isn't as easy to appreciate as other genres, simply because of so many unconventional things going on.

I have this feeling that, well, every genre has its own hurdles that may prevent people getting into them, but there's this whole myth built around the "strange and unusual and elitist" prog that it influences a lot of people's opinions when they start listening to it and promptly decide it's not for them yeah, prog is pretty unconventional, but it's a question of whether it is one of the toughest genres (in rock music) for people to get into or not, everyone can decide for themselves I guess. Maybe the unconventional elements in prog are equally as hard to get into as other elements of other stuff.

When people attack prog metal (I'm aware that this is a prog rock topic), they either say it's "pointless incoherent musical jackoff" or "stale and repetitive ripoff of DT/FW who are a stale and repetitive ripoff of 70's prog rock". The truth is, as always, in between. In between positives. It's somewhere in the middle between the magically unpredictable and the safe and comforting routine. If it is good of course.

Written by Milena on 21.02.2012 at 16:57

I have this feeling that, well, every genre has its own hurdles that may prevent people getting into them, but there's this whole myth built around the "strange and unusual and elitist" prog that it influences a lot of people's opinions when they start listening to it and promptly decide it's not for them yeah, prog is pretty unconventional, but it's a question of whether it is one of the toughest genres (in rock music) for people to get into or not, everyone can decide for themselves I guess. Maybe the unconventional elements in prog are equally as hard to get into as other elements of other stuff.

When people attack prog metal (I'm aware that this is a prog rock topic), they either say it's "pointless incoherent musical jackoff" or "stale and repetitive ripoff of DT/FW who are a stale and repetitive ripoff of 70's prog rock". The truth is, as always, in between. In between positives. It's somewhere in the middle between the magically unpredictable and the safe and comforting routine. If it is good of course.

Yeah I guess that raises the question of what is 'unconventional' exactly? Maybe, in the case of prog, they are just differences within a convention that are given a special status in order to differentiate the genre from others.

In the end though, as you say, it all comes down to personal taste and individual opinion. Some people, regardless of what music they are familiar with/enjoy, might find prog more difficult to grasp than other genres or they may find other genres even more challenging. A personal example would be Black metal for me, I find it more of a task to appreciate than other genres.

Written by R'Vannith on 21.02.2012 at 17:27

Some people, regardless of what music they are familiar with/enjoy, might find prog more difficult to grasp than other genres or they may find other genres even more challenging. A personal example would be Black metal for me, I find it more of a task to appreciate than other genres.

A personal challenge in black metal for me is, even when I seek out the more melodious parts of the subgenre (nothing against extreme metal, I just find the marriage of melody and some extremity much more appealing, which is why I listen to metal in the first place) - can't judge a whole genre by 10 albums or so, but Troy recommended me a lot of stuff fit to my taste, so I guess that's one of the merits - is that I definitely feel the aesthetic appeal but it doesn't evoke a lot of emotion in me.

Written by R'Vannith on 21.02.2012 at 16:49

Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.02.2012 at 15:59

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.02.2012 at 01:08
But let's be honest, their's no denying prog music is much more complex than other genres

So what? That is completely irrelevant to the subject. Music being complex doesn't mean it's intelligent and the other way around is true too.

I'm not so sure about this, complexity would involve a fair amount of intelligence I would think, or at least a lot of 'know how'. So perhaps musical proficiency would be more at play than intelligence? But I guess that would imply that the complexity of prog is always a musically proficient thing, often it's not, just a heap of uninteresting stuff.

Is complexity any indication at all of intelligence? And for that matter what does 'intelligence' in music mean?

To me complexity means nothing in terms of inteligence, under tht thought all the technical death metal bands would be "highly inteligent" while doom metal would easily be the dumbest genre around.

So to answer your question easily:
Is complexity any indication at all of intelligence?
HELL NO.I just see it as a "know how" and nothing else.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.02.2012 at 22:29


To me complexity means nothing in terms of inteligence, under tht thought all the technical death metal bands would be "highly inteligent" while doom metal would easily be the dumbest genre around.

So to answer your question easily:
Is complexity any indication at all of intelligence?
HELL NO.I just see it as a "know how" and nothing else.

What are you doing in prog rock? Go away

Written by BloodTears on 21.02.2012 at 22:59
What are you doing in prog rock? Go away

Pffff, you don't want me to leave


Does Pink Floyd count? Otherwise I'm very useless here.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.02.2012 at 23:03


Pffff, you don't want me to leave


Does Pink Floyd count? Otherwise I'm very useless here.

lol If you don't know how to answer that question, clearly you don't know anything about it.

You need a crash course from Prog Babes. Me and Milena will take care of you (not in that way though).

Written by BloodTears on 21.02.2012 at 23:08
(not in that way though).

I take what I can

Yesyesyes. If I listened to Troy's stuff and had no objections (except for emotional attachment), you deserve a crash course in prog

Like mister Doc says complexity has nothing to do with intelligence.

tbh I would even dar say that less complex music is more iintelligent than complex music becuase it actually makes you think and it tries and usually does invoke more emotions than so called intelligent music,