Written by MetallicA on 11.12.2009 at 23:21

@Konrad-I totally see what you're saying. Yeah I know it was chaotic over there before we went in but since we went in, we can't just leave at a moments notice. Yeah we should not have went into Iraq to begin with but since we did, we have to look at what we can do to fix a problem that was created. Hussein's dictatorship was aweful but by going in there before we finished with Afghanistan we spread ourselves too thin and now we're pretty stuck.

I feel you on this...it's hard..I just refuse to believe that there's anything that we can fix. The biased and manipulative media, and grossly misinformed politicians are going to continue to tell us that there's hope, we can fix things, etc. etc. I really don't know how it is over there...but I believe that millions of people died in Vietnam in vain. I believe the same thing is happening, and if "fixing" the situation means having some sort of illusionary democracy over there as we have here, and also having access to McDonald's and Baskin Robins and all this other Corporate nonsense that's now available in Vietnam, isn't that why they fucking hate us in the first place? I just think the American goal of "fixing it" isn't really entirely fixing it. But you're right...the situation is fucked up, and regardless of the outcome I'm sure someone will have something to complain about. It sucks...and it makes me really sad.

Anarchys the only way!!

Isn't Obama just a pawn to take the blame for all the shit that happened in office before him? He probably doesn't have as much power as you all think he does...

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Isn't Obama just a pawn to take the blame for all the shit that happened in office before him? He probably doesn't have as much power as you all think he does.../quote]



I know, Obama is just the posterboy for the US, it isnt REALLY his fault, but we just say its him

I just love the fact that the one who gets Nobel's peace award sends more troops to Afghanistan...

Written by Warman on 14.12.2009 at 16:58

I just love the fact that the one who gets Nobel's peace award sends more troops to Afghanistan...

I thought that was strange too.

Honestly, he's only been in office for almost a year and IMO hasn't really accomplished much. I know he's trying but it takes time to get things done and really, not much has been done as of yet.

And for the record I don't blame him for the cesspool the US has become... Like I said he hasn't been in office for very long and these problems were there already. I just hope it gets better (the economy, the wars, our immense debt etc) Im just not a big fan of some of his spending tactics (cash for clunkers, bailouts etc)

Written by Warman on 14.12.2009 at 16:58

I just love the fact that the one who gets Nobel's peace award sends more troops to Afghanistan...

Well I do think he got the Nobel price because they somehow "know" that he will accomplish something in the future to bring peace to the world. Or atleast that's what I've heard.

They're doing an exit-strategy, to complete the mission faster he sends more troops. Though, alot doubt this will do any good - but nonetheless it is his intentions.

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I just love the fact that the one who gets Nobel's peace award sends more troops to Afghanistan.../quote]




I think its best summed up as:
Dropping Bombs for Peace is like Fuckin for Virginity

I have a question: if and when all troops are pulled from the Middle East, what will happen?

Written by Clintagräm on 17.12.2009 at 06:37

I have a question: if and when all troops are pulled from the Middle East, what will happen?

I assume the goal there would be to leave with some sort of political and social "stability" established but I'm pretty sure by that they mean turn the country into a puppet state.

What will happen? Iraqi official government will fall and some fanatic rebel leader will be enthroned...Iraq people who was with America will be pursed and punished...and other terrorist will learn, that everyone can mess with Americans, if he is annoying enough

Written by Ellrohir on 18.12.2009 at 17:55

What will happen? Iraqi official government will fall and some fanatic rebel leader will be enthroned...Iraq people who was with America will be pursed and punished...and other terrorist will learn, that everyone can mess with Americans, if he is annoying enough

That's assuming that there's immediate withdrawl or withdrawl before the 'proper' measures are placed. But if it's mission accomplished, well, I really think that an equivilent to my last post will be the case.

Written by Konrad on 10.12.2009 at 21:29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods (Kennedy rejected the plan to paint planes like those of Cuba, and attack our own country in order to receive public support as an excuse to invade Cuba)

my blood turned to ice when i read that. i don't think there is any doubt in any rational mind as to what caused the 9/11 incident.

Written by Valentin B on 19.12.2009 at 10:00

Written by Konrad on 10.12.2009 at 21:29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods (Kennedy rejected the plan to paint planes like those of Cuba, and attack our own country in order to receive public support as an excuse to invade Cuba)

my blood turned to ice when i read that. i don't think there is any doubt in any rational mind as to what caused the 9/11 incident.

Please use something beyond wikipedia for sources. I'm not doubting it, but wikipedia is not a reputable source. As for the actual plan, obviously it was rejected. I doubt this was the first or last idea of this nature by our wonderful politicians. As for the quote above, I don't think you can call people irrational for believing the "zeitgeist", but that's just me. If you let yourself be manipulated then you're going to believe in something no matter what; this statement goes for everyone.

Anyone who thinks the US Gov't was responsible for 9-11 is a fucking idiot.

the current president, in regards to afghanistan and this thread is a fucking idiot. gives a lame speech in front of the US Military Academy (when the military pretty much realizes Obama despises them... see his plans to deprive those soldiers wounded in combat of gov't health care, but to provide it to non-taxpaying illegal aliens) stating we are sending 30,000 more troops to afghanistan.

sets a date for withdrawal, conveniently as the political machines start revving up for the 2012 elections... but doesn't mention victory once.

Zerobama has no plan. Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage.

Bush at least HAD a plan. take down the Taliban. given prior history (see WW2), when the Allies removed a hostile and oppressive regime from power (Nazi Germany, Japan, Mussolini's Italy) and dumped a ton of US dollars into helping rebuild those countries, the people rallied around and developed an effective gov't capable of running that country for the betterment of their respective peoples. Look at those places now. they seem to be doing well. well, ok given today's global economy... but generally well over the last 65 years.

flash forward to afghanistan and the taliban (and iraq for that matter) - the oppressive regime is decimated quicker than anyone expects... but partisans scurry like roaches when you turn the lights on.

instead of co-operation and rebuilding, we are met with resistance.

Western Europe and Japan are not US Slave States ... and neither would Afghanistan or Iraq have been. instead, well, the areas are rife with conflict.

frankly, if we are not willing to commit to victory, and the locals would rather bomb the other side because they follow the gourd instead of the shoe (yes, comparing Islamic extremists to MOnty Python's Life of Brian...) well, fuck them. they are not worth dying (or killing) for.

just leave and let them blow each other up.

they were given a chance for something better than authoritarian regimes which burned schools down (with little girls inside) or rounded up roughly 4% of the population over a 30 year span under the previous despot and either imprisoned or flat out executed them for daring to maybe question the methodology of the gov't, and seemingly rejected it.

too bad so sad.

let them suffer. more decapitations at soccer fields and olympic athletes tortured for getting silver instead of gold...

and just do what that world-popular President Clinton did. when they get uppity (or you want to cover up an affair with some skank intern) lob a few cruise missiles at them. and outsource all yer torture and interrogations to the 3rd World so we can say we're clean... even if waterboarding (a practice we put our own military through) is far nicer than other countries that have no qualms about hooking a guy's nuts up to a car battery.

get our troops out of there and let them kill one another while the UN does absolutely nothing but pass useless referendums and scathing letters (see also: Darfur, where slaughter continues unabated... but at least America isn't involved, right?) telling them to stop or they'll pass sanctions which won't impact the ruling despots any, but only make life harder on the poor honest bastards trying to eek out a living in that hell hole.

Written by Clintagräm on 17.12.2009 at 06:37

I have a question: if and when all troops are pulled from the Middle East, what will happen?

Since when is Afghanistan the Middle East

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.12.2009 at 11:36

Written by Clintagräm on 17.12.2009 at 06:37

I have a question: if and when all troops are pulled from the Middle East, what will happen?

Since when is Afghanistan the Middle East

Please excuse my ignorance of specific semantics. I was attempting to discern the larger area of discussion from the Far East and the West. Maybe it's an American thing, but seeing as Afghanistan borders Iraq this is what I was getting at. Perhaps "...when all troops are pulled from the Middle East and Asia" would be more proper. Geographical boundaries seem often vague to me and most likely extend to reasons beyond my knowledge. It's like when I assume Finland to be a part of Scandinavia.

Written by Clintagräm on 19.12.2009 at 11:47


...but seeing as Afghanistan borders Iraq this is what I was getting at. ...

Maybe you should take a closer look at a map
Afghanistan does not border Iraq.
To be totally precise Afghanistan borders IraN, Pakistan, a tiny bit China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.12.2009 at 11:55

Written by Clintagräm on 19.12.2009 at 11:47


...but seeing as Afghanistan borders Iraq this is what I was getting at. ...

Maybe you should take a closer look at a map
Afghanistan does not border Iraq.
To be totally precise Afghanistan borders IraN, Pakistan, a tiny bit China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan

Sorry, I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. I honestly meant Iran, but seeing as it's nearly 4:00 am here, I hope you can forgive my mistake. Thank you for your geographical precision nonetheless.

Written by Clintagräm on 19.12.2009 at 11:57

Thank you for your geographical precision nonetheless.

Well, I couldn't have done that without the aid of a map to be honest
All I was sure of were Iran and Pakistan hahahaha

Well, I never said the US government caused 9/11...I only was suggesting that elements of the government could have possibly known about it. And...why does it make someone a "fucking idiot" to not believe the news now days? I could say that anyone is a fucking idiot for believing that building 7 collapsed when it wasn't hit by anything. All I said was that the U.S. never fully investigated the matter, because they pinned it on the people they wanted to start a war with.

Zeitgeist is a piece of shit documentary that is the dumbed down version of many good ones. Try doing some research before you assume the role of calling anyone who thinks outside the box a "conspiracy nut". You sound like fucking Bill O'Reilly...at least try and be like bittercold and provide a little bit of factual evidence to state your claim.

Either way, you are missing the point. My post was not about 9/11...that's in the past and is pointless to argue over...

And wikipedia btw provides outside sources to all of their information...or they should anyway in most cases.

Well, this thread wasn't going smoothly since inception and now it gotten fucking worse.

Obama contributed nil for the military.

Donald Trump leaped over and met Taliban to make it worse.

Joe Biden in slumber watching Taliban and ISIS-K wreaking havoc in Afghanistan.

Deja-vu of post-Soviet era when Taliban stormed through the walls and took over country whose GDP dependent on leading foreign countries. Future looks absolute precedent inscribing the circumstances that prevailed pre-Middle East blown up.

I feel Afghanistan will become the next Syria.

Afgan folk must have internet in defending the land. Much better armed national army troops did gave up and run. They could fight more and talies won't win so fast. Nato can not fight to usuceful nation if they don't want to fight for them selves.
Taking out t troops was mistake, but going in will cost our lifes. We have military capabilities to destroy Afghanistan, Iran, but civilian casualties. Same in Afghanistan... Takeban are most pusyun speaking, so civil war is option, but west should close an eye for some methods using crushing enemies