US-CHINA TENSIONS

Google - China denies being behind an alleged cyber attack on the US search engine
Taiwan - a US sale of $6.4bn (£4bn) of defensive arms to Taiwan has angered Beijing
Tibet - China says Obama meeting with the Dalai Lama "seriously undermines" relations"
Trade - rows over imports and exports of meat, media, car tyres and raw materials
Iran - the US fears China will not back tougher sanctions against Tehran over its nuclear programme
Climate - the US is disappointed at China's tough position at the Copenhagen Summit

This is a recent list of happenings b/t these two superpowers. Discuss anything you want about the relations b/t these countries, and other countries who would have a direct effect on their relationship (such as Israel or Iran).

I think it is shame, that every "democratic and moral values" is forgotten, when politics of the world talk to China...everyone is so so afraid of them

It's quite a perplexing relationship. We hate China for the fact that it is a communist country, but we need China for their toys and their native cuisine. This is also due to the fact that we borrow a lot of their money.

Written by Guest on 20.02.2010 at 17:30

We hate China for the fact that it is a communist country

China is not a communist country, actually : )

Speaking of socialism/communism, if you wish to see some of that, you should search for it from Norway and Sweden...

Well... China has always been doing what they like to do... not caring much about others, also they are interested in maintaining a stable situation for them and anything they are suspicious of is surely slowed down by them...

And well... nobody... neither US nor Russia will never tell China how to do or how not to do because China can own both your territories in short time...
China already owns the world by the means of their products... Even Swedish furniture company Ikea has their products made in South-East Asia, if not in China... well... it might be like that... Ikea is based in Sweden, main work is done by China and the dirty work is done in South-Asia...

Fortunately China's bubble will go flat in couple of years...their current strength is in very very cheap workforce...but as their economics grow, more and more people will live better and better and will be less and less willing to work for a bowl of rice pro day...it is the very same effect, that currently causing US and Europe are behind

Written by Ernis on 20.02.2010 at 17:46

Written by Guest on 20.02.2010 at 17:30

We hate China for the fact that it is a communist country

China is not a communist country, actually : )

Speaking of socialism/communism, if you wish to see some of that, you should search for it from Norway and Sweden...

Well... China has always been doing what they like to do... not caring much about others, also they are interested in maintaining a stable situation for them and anything they are suspicious of is surely slowed down by them...

And well... nobody... neither US nor Russia will never tell China how to do or how not to do because China can own both your territories in short time...
China already owns the world by the means of their products... Even Swedish furniture company Ikea has their products made in South-East Asia, if not in China... well... it might be like that... Ikea is based in Sweden, main work is done by China and the dirty work is done in South-Asia...

If that's the case, then I welcome our oriental overlords.

The US and China have something in common, they both execute the mentally ill. No matter how superior the US makes itself feel, there are still shared injustices existent in both countries. The British man that was executed in China supports the outsider view of the country as a seemingly illogical enigma, only adding to the already tense situation.

But capital punishment aside, I think arming Taiwan was a bad move. It sends a clear "Fuck You" message, but at least neither country could afford to go to war with the other. Capitalism, no matter what many hippies will say, can actually create peace through trade interdependence.

Written by Guest on 20.02.2010 at 18:41

If that's the case, then I welcome our oriental overlords.

now you have reminded me Kent Brockman and Deep Space Homer Simpsons episode

Written by Introspekrieg on 20.02.2010 at 19:07

The US and China have something in common, they both execute the mentally ill.

Isn't it only Texas that does that? I thought that in other states, they lock up the mentally ill in asylums.

Written by Ernis on 20.02.2010 at 17:46

Written by Guest on 20.02.2010 at 17:30

We hate China for the fact that it is a communist country

China is not a communist country, actually : )

Speaking of socialism/communism, if you wish to see some of that, you should search for it from Norway and Sweden...

Well... China has always been doing what they like to do... not caring much about others, also they are interested in maintaining a stable situation for them and anything they are suspicious of is surely slowed down by them...

And well... nobody... neither US nor Russia will never tell China how to do or how not to do because China can own both your territories in short time...
China already owns the world by the means of their products... Even Swedish furniture company Ikea has their products made in South-East Asia, if not in China... well... it might be like that... Ikea is based in Sweden, main work is done by China and the dirty work is done in South-Asia...

China is a communistic country whether you like it or not. But it also depends on your view if your a leftist socialist self.

I also don't know where the hell you got the idea that Norway and Sweden are communistic/socialist states. Yes you have Swedish Social Democratic Party but they surely aren't pure communists they blacklisted them during the cold war like everybody else. Also I wonder what your views of what a communist socialist government are is, calling countries with a real communist government not communistic but calling countries with a social left party communistic...

That raises an other question, why so pro and defensive of China Viggo? Judging from your previous posts I see your for human and animal rights, then why the like for the atrocious, vile and disgusting People's Republic of China?

Written by VPeter on 21.02.2010 at 18:49

China is a communistic country whether you like it or not. But it also depends on your view if your a leftist socialist self.

I also don't know where the hell you got the idea that Norway and Sweden are communistic/socialist states. Yes you have Swedish Social Democratic Party but they surely aren't pure communists they blacklisted them during the cold war like everybody else. Also I wonder what your views of what a communist socialist government are is, calling countries with a real communist government not communistic but calling countries with a social left party communistic...

That raises an other question, why so pro and defensive of China Viggo? Judging from your previous posts I see your for human and animal rights, then why the like for the atrocious, vile and disgusting People's Republic of China?

He has visited China and speaks Chinese, so there is an investment of his time in the place. It is interesting to hear from someone who has been there.

Written by VPeter on 21.02.2010 at 18:49

calling countries with a real communist government not communistic but calling countries with a social left party communistic...

That raises an other question, why so pro and defensive of China Viggo? Judging from your previous posts I see your for human and animal rights, then why the like for the atrocious, vile and disgusting People's Republic of China?

First of all, you most probably have not a single idea what communism is about. Secondly, I lived in that "atrocious, vile and disgusting" country among the "atrocious, vile and disgusting communist people"... And, to be honest, if possible I will surely go back to live and work there in the future...

Written by Ernis on 21.02.2010 at 19:47

Written by VPeter on 21.02.2010 at 18:49

calling countries with a real communist government not communistic but calling countries with a social left party communistic...

That raises an other question, why so pro and defensive of China Viggo? Judging from your previous posts I see your for human and animal rights, then why the like for the atrocious, vile and disgusting People's Republic of China?

First of all, you most probably have not a single idea what communism is about. Secondly, I lived in that "atrocious, vile and disgusting" country among the "atrocious, vile and disgusting communist people"... And, to be honest, if possible I will surely go back to live and work there in the future...

Actually I do have read about it, so please explain why China is not communistic and Norway and Sweden are.

Written by VPeter on 21.02.2010 at 20:20

do have read about it, so please explain why China is not communistic and Norway and Sweden are.

China - authoritarian capitalism

Welfare state - socialism

Socialism is when country manages and takes care of everything... creates jobs, takes care of all people etc... Communism is the goal of the development of a socialist state which would mean that there will be a society where all the people can share everything... you won't actually have to pay for most things because most things will all be shared and free for all... So far there has been no communist state on this earth... NEVER...

Some states that had Communist parties in the government were not necessarily socialist and certainly not communist (you can't have communism right away... it develops form socialism)...

We have Green Party here at the moment... yes they speak bout the "green way of life" and stuff but the fact is that they are not green at all... it's just a name...

China's communist party is not communist at all... it's just a name...

Finally... Communism is nothing evil... Compared to National Socialism it's an angelic theory... The fact that some Georgian dude had all his political opponents killed off and created a regime which allowed "stronger" and more selfish people to send people they didn't like to prison or to be executed does not imply that he did this in the name of communism...

French Revolution's goal was a constitutional monarchy and human rights... executing the king and his wife and slaughter of a large number of people plus terror regime had nothing to do with the idea of French Revolution...

Written by Ernis on 21.02.2010 at 20:55

The fact that some Georgian dude had all his political opponents killed off and created a regime which allowed "stronger" and more selfish people to send people they didn't like to prison or to be executed does not imply that he did this in the name of communism...

if Lenin wouldn't had died, he would turn to nearly as same beast as Stalin...

Hey guys, I appreciate the input but let's keep discussions like "what is communism/capitalism" in their designated threads.

Written by Ernis on 21.02.2010 at 20:55

Written by VPeter on 21.02.2010 at 20:20

do have read about it, so please explain why China is not communistic and Norway and Sweden are.

China - authoritarian capitalism

Welfare state - socialism

Socialism is when country manages and takes care of everything... creates jobs, takes care of all people etc... Communism is the goal of the development of a socialist state which would mean that there will be a society where all the people can share everything... you won't actually have to pay for most things because most things will all be shared and free for all... So far there has been no communist state on this earth... NEVER...

Some states that had Communist parties in the government were not necessarily socialist and certainly not communist (you can't have communism right away... it develops form socialism)...

We have Green Party here at the moment... yes they speak bout the "green way of life" and stuff but the fact is that they are not green at all... it's just a name...

China's communist party is not communist at all... it's just a name...

Finally... Communism is nothing evil... Compared to National Socialism it's an angelic theory... The fact that some Georgian dude had all his political opponents killed off and created a regime which allowed "stronger" and more selfish people to send people they didn't like to prison or to be executed does not imply that he did this in the name of communism...

French Revolution's goal was a constitutional monarchy and human rights... executing the king and his wife and slaughter of a large number of people plus terror regime had nothing to do with the idea of French Revolution...

Authoritarian yes and getting capitalistic for quite a couple years now, but there is still a communistic stamp on the whole thing - surely it is never as big as the era when Mao was alive. But it's still one of the few communistic states left.

However your right when you say there has been no communist state in the world. But it's also because communism in it's purest form is an utopia that can't be reached just like anarchism. There are/were countries that managed to follow the 10 point program of The Communist Manifesto to a certain degree so hence they were called communist countries.

heh, we have a Green left party to who claim to be green but are not even close...

Nationalism actually had a promising future if it weren't for Nazism to ruin it... I know very well that Communism has some very good things, like Yugoslavia was pretty comfortable to live in under Tito's rule but I'm more opposed to more extreme communism such as Stalinism and Maoism.
You know very well that Stalin wasn't the only one to kill people left and right to achieve his goals.. Lenin, Fidel Castro, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, Mao and even Tito was guilty of this...

It is not of Communism that I hate China, I hate them because of Tibet, killing massive amount of animals for their fur and even taking pleasure in it, destroying nature on massive scale, Tiananmen Square massacre, sexism and the list goes on.

I just can't stand it, the way the west and specially the USA go all out and attack Serbia for how evil they are and going as far and stealing land from them(Kosovo) but not China, because China is our whore who helps our economy... Then again the USA them selfs also look pretty hypocritical when they attack China for it's total lack of care for nature because USA doesn't care either.

To go back on topic again, all tough I really hate China I won't call for a war on them that would be a real disaster.. What I am for is the USA trying to make more ties and economic agreements with more friendly countries and trying to distance more from China.

The problem to me is very clear, you may disagree, but as we commies say, the history will prove us wrong or right.

Despite what many think, since the dead of Mao, China took a wrong turn and started developing a Capitalistic State, but as what happen with the Soviet Union, if they openly accepted that they were capitalistic countries, the local bourgeois would have inevitably fell to the vastly superior (economically speaking) western bourgeois (USA and western Europe), so they kept the flag of Socialism in order the give their local bourgeois the chance to grow to a similar level as the western bourgeois. In the case of the Soviet Union, when the local bourgeois was developed and It was able to compete with the western bourgeois without been crushed, that was the moment when the Soviet Union fell. You must think that this is a conspiracy theory, who's the 4th large economy in the world? Russia.

Well in the case of China, it's happening the same, but unlike the USSR, when China unmask itself as a capitalist State, it will take the throne of the current empire (USA), cuz it's market is bigger than the one available in the USA. So most of the problems that the USA have with China, is for the fear of loosing the first place. But unless USA destroy their means of production, there's nothing it can do, is fighting a futile battle, just like the fight against Latin America.