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The original post
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Posted by on 28.08.2006 at 01:36
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Over the course of the last two weeks i have seen a lot of references to communism, unanimously either dismissive of it's possibility or simply against it because of the whole Soviet experiment in the 20th century.
This thread is one for educating the mass of metalstormers just what communism is about, why communists believe it is a viable economic model, and the history of communism, and hopefully there are some commies here apart from me who can contribute to discussion about the finer and undecided points (what form should the revolution take, where/when, etc).
Here's a few starting points that i want to make quite clear:
1) There has never been a communist society existing on a national level. None have ever claimed to be communist. Of the very few that call themselves socialist, hardly any are truly socialist in the actual literal definition of the word. Referring to china, north korea or russia in this thread is pointless, as none of those are connected in any meaningful manner to Communism.
2) Communism is the STATELESS society achieved after an international proletarian revolution, which abolishes the oppressive capitalist system in all it's forms, and to it's deepest roots. I'm talking total and complete wiping of the board and remaking it all. No more money, no more companies, no more countries, no more employment, no more religion (negotiable according to some communists), an entire life change. This comes to be after a lengthy and natural transition period known as socialism, where an organization of workers coordinates the activities the proletariat for it's own benefit.
3) Communism means revolution, and not some wussy social revolution. It cannot be achieved through the political system, the political system must be overthrown and destroyed, as it (like all institutions of our society) exists solely to concentrate power (and therefore money) in the hands of a few. The scale and conduct of the revolution is a matter of debate amongst communists.
4) Anarchism (in it's pure form) is exactly as above, except that anarchists believe that we will be able to, and must, slip straight into communism after the revolution, so i count anarchists as communists. Henceforth then people adhering to the principles stated above will be referred to as marxists.
Question, comment, challenge or even flame, but please oh please at least have read this post before writing "COMMIES FVKK3D UP RUSSKIELAND!!11", or even a coherent and valid post raging against the PRK, PRC or (former)USSR. And any other MS commies lend a hand please!
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Page 17 of 17
 Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Posts: 8072
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic
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28.08.2012 at 12:43
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The problem is people dont believe they have equal position...they believe they are destined to be exploited and desperately seek for someone who will salve them...even if the salvation means slavery under different masters...
another problem is jealousy - the problem isnt i have bad life, problem is someone else has better life...
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The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind
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theFIST
Posts: 587
Age: 20
From: Austria
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29.08.2012 at 00:49
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Written by Ellrohir on 28.08.2012 at 12:43
The problem is people dont believe they have equal position...they believe they are destined to be exploited and desperately seek for someone who will salve them...even if the salvation means slavery under different masters...
another problem is jealousy - the problem isnt i have bad life, problem is someone else has better life...
If people think they should be someone"s servant, why shouldn"t they be?
It"s their free decision, not a problem
Just like everyone is free to convince them that they can have it better
Also, jealousy is fueled by the idea that everyone should have a right to get the same
Without that idea it could not exist enough for being a strong political force
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http://illdeletethis.bandcamp.com/
http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com/
฿ ___________ 18GEYVGqKmywNV8qefvstZYNBcERP4sZzj
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Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Posts: 8072
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic
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29.08.2012 at 00:57
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Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 00:49
If people think they should be someone"s servant, why shouldn"t they be?
It"s their free decision, not a problem
the problem is one - they wanna take me with them...and this isnt really my free decision
otherwise i agree - let anyone make their own communism in a closed community of ppl...anyone free to enter...but thank you, ima out of it
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The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind
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theFIST
Posts: 587
Age: 20
From: Austria
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29.08.2012 at 01:14
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Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 00:57
Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 00:49
If people think they should be someone"s servant, why shouldn"t they be?
It"s their free decision, not a problem
the problem is one - they wanna take me with them...and this isnt really my free decision
otherwise i agree - let anyone make their own communism in a closed community of ppl...anyone free to enter...but thank you, ima out of it
They can want to take you with them, but not force you to come with them
Closed community and anyone free to enter sounds contradictory.....
Anyways, that voluntary communism is only possible if it isn"t forced through government
Therefore, for any free communism to exist there"d have to be an anarcho capitalist country in which such communities could exist
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----
http://illdeletethis.bandcamp.com/
http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com/
฿ ___________ 18GEYVGqKmywNV8qefvstZYNBcERP4sZzj
Ł ___________ LfZ3eQNmwSCZTZstKgg1ojNp2eo4ptUyVq
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Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Posts: 8072
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic
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29.08.2012 at 01:30
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I would prefer the term "libertarian" over "anarcho-capitalist"  a state that just keeps an eye over very basic rights (no murder, no stealing, no forcing other ppl) and the rest is up to people - do, what you wanna do...even communism if you want...
the thing is, that most communists (or likely wanna-be-communists) want to install their system as a government for all inhabitants of the state...and there, the freedom is failing to a thing called democracy - because majority of ppl is potentially able to vote in something like that, despite the minority who doesnt want it and will be hardly affected...
i just hope it wont happen in my country, but it seems possible...old communist party overthrown in 1989 is having like 20% and with other left-winged party should be able to have majority in next election...thank you, i dont want your justice and new order :?
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----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind
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theFIST
Posts: 587
Age: 20
From: Austria
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29.08.2012 at 02:00
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Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 01:30
I would prefer the term "libertarian" over "anarcho-capitalist" a state that just keeps an eye over very basic rights (no murder, no stealing, no forcing other ppl) and the rest is up to people - do, what you wanna do...even communism if you want...
the thing is, that most communists (or likely wanna-be-communists) want to install their system as a government for all inhabitants of the state...and there, the freedom is failing to a thing called democracy - because majority of ppl is potentially able to vote in something like that, despite the minority who doesnt want it and will be hardly affected...
i just hope it wont happen in my country, but it seems possible...old communist party overthrown in 1989 is having like 20% and with other left-winged party should be able to have majority in next election...thank you, i dont want your justice and new order :?
Maybe you"d have a chance to change the results in your country by starting a free market party
You"d just have to convince enough people that it"s the right way for getting into parliament, then you could be the opposition party to inform people of the bad left wing legislation and gain popularity by slowing them down
A few elections later you"d have the people behind you
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----
http://illdeletethis.bandcamp.com/
http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com/
฿ ___________ 18GEYVGqKmywNV8qefvstZYNBcERP4sZzj
Ł ___________ LfZ3eQNmwSCZTZstKgg1ojNp2eo4ptUyVq
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Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Posts: 8072
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic
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29.08.2012 at 09:47
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Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 02:00
Maybe you"d have a chance to change the results in your country by starting a free market party
there already is such a party - http://www.svobodni.cz/3-kdo-jsme/51-english-page
and i am obviously a voter, i am considering membership and i am working on convincing ppl around me...but atm the party have estimated 3% of voters...maybe we'll get a few MPs in next election, but first our country will have to survive a couple of left-winged governments 
what sucks is, that currently we have a government made of "right-winged" parties, but their actions are maybe even more left-sided  but people believe it are the signs of capitalism, so they are going to vote for left-wing parties, some of them even for commies
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----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind
|
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|
theFIST
Posts: 587
Age: 20
From: Austria
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29.08.2012 at 11:43
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Written by Ellrohir on 29.08.2012 at 09:47
Written by theFIST on 29.08.2012 at 02:00
Maybe you"d have a chance to change the results in your country by starting a free market party
there already is such a party - http://www.svobodni.cz/3-kdo-jsme/51-english-page
and i am obviously a voter, i am considering membership and i am working on convincing ppl around me...but atm the party have estimated 3% of voters...maybe we'll get a few MPs in next election, but first our country will have to survive a couple of left-winged governments
what sucks is, that currently we have a government made of "right-winged" parties, but their actions are maybe even more left-sided but people believe it are the signs of capitalism, so they are going to vote for left-wing parties, some of them even for commies
The problem is that people believe that left right thing, yet the so called social market is economic fascism, so of course both sides want it, as it is clearly left and right and profitable for those in charge
Glad that there is such a party, sounds good what they have on that page, but it needs to more effectively teach people that there can"t be negative effects of capitalism when there is none
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----
http://illdeletethis.bandcamp.com/
http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com/
฿ ___________ 18GEYVGqKmywNV8qefvstZYNBcERP4sZzj
Ł ___________ LfZ3eQNmwSCZTZstKgg1ojNp2eo4ptUyVq
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Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Posts: 8072
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic
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29.08.2012 at 13:32
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Well i need two years at University of economics and to read a few books to be convinced, this is the way...but most ppl were tricked by ordinary politicians so many times, that many simply dont believe there is another way 
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----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind
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