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The original post

Posted by Silent Jay on 20.04.2011 at 15:23
I was wondering, there's the Big 4 of U.S. Thrash Metal, so what would be the U.K. equivalent?

My first thought is Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motörhead and Saxon. But some of these emerged much earlier than others and the Thrash Big 4, so what other bands emerged a bit later (80's as opposed to 70's) that could be considered part of the Big 4 of British Heavy Metal?

Maybe we can make a definitive MetalStorm decision?

*Sorry if something like this has been posted before, it probably has, but I tried the search function and couldn't find anything.



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RavenEffect

Posts: 534

Age: 29
From: Portugal

  19.02.2015 at 16:04
Overkill signed with a small label first and latter went into Megaforce. At this time Megadeth was already with Combat so you're incorrect. Plus, Megadeth was forced to be a poster boy due to the Metallica vendetta.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  19.02.2015 at 16:09
Written by RavenEffect on 19.02.2015 at 16:04

Overkill signed with a small label first and latter went into Megaforce. At this time Megadeth was already with Combat so you're incorrect.


Overkill wasn't on a label before they signed to Megaforce and Megadeth wasn't on a label before they signed to Combat. And Overkill signed to Megaforce before Megadeth signed to Combat. Overkill was already playing thrash before Megadeth started, had already released two demo's before signing to Megaforce, Megadeth had one demo before signing to Combat.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  19.02.2015 at 16:13
RavenEffect, I don't know what your sources are, but they are extremely incorrect.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  19.02.2015 at 16:15
Okay I frogot about the Overkill e.p. which was released before Feel The Fire and that was on Azra, but the fact remains Overkill signed to Megaforce before Megadeth signed to Combat
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

RavenEffect

Posts: 534

Age: 29
From: Portugal

  19.02.2015 at 16:19
Power in Black and Feel the Fire weren't self-released, they were the result of a small deal with Azra in 84. Megaforce picked them in 85. At this time, Megadeth was already working on the debut for Combat, that got delayed due to all the complications between studio staff and band.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  19.02.2015 at 16:27
The Power In Black and Feel The Fire demo's were never released by Azra, they purely self-releasewd cassettes. Only the Overkill e.p. from 1984 was released by Azra, Megaforce picked them up at the end of 1984. And btw Megaforce was a bigger label at the time than Combat and have always remained a bigger label.

But that is besides the point. The point still being that The Big Four Of Thrash referred to sales, popularity etc. at the time it was coined. But it seems that people who weren't around back then seem to know how it was unlike the people who were around and experienced it first-hand. Aaaah the joys of faulty info on the net.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

RavenEffect

Posts: 534

Age: 29
From: Portugal

  19.02.2015 at 16:27
I'm not bumping heads with you Marcel but I feel you're being really stuborn with this case. I wasn't around at that time, obviously, my sources are a gathering of documentaries, books and articles like Louder Than Hell, Murder in the Front Row, etc.. etc...

I don't know, they may or not be correct, but I'll choose to believe they are, some of them being wrote and contributed by the greats of music jornalism and artists themselves.

But yeah, completely irrelevant discussion.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  20.02.2015 at 10:54
Overkill only started playing thrash after Metallica had a demo out. Before that they were a cover band.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

BitterCOld
Hop Bomba

Posts: 13636

Age: 43
From: Paraguay

  20.02.2015 at 15:24
I don't know how big or small Island was, but I saw Anthrax records and cassettes in every Wherehouse, Sam Goody, etc I went to back in the mid-late 80s.
----
get the fuck off my lawn.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  20.02.2015 at 15:38
Written by BitterCOld on 20.02.2015 at 15:24

I don't know how big or small Island was, but I saw Anthrax records and cassettes in every Wherehouse, Sam Goody, etc I went to back in the mid-late 80s.



Island Records was/is a subdivision of Universal Music Group.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  23.02.2015 at 01:07
Written by deadone on 23.02.2015 at 00:51

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 20.02.2015 at 15:38

Written by BitterCOld on 20.02.2015 at 15:24

I don't know how big or small Island was, but I saw Anthrax records and cassettes in every Wherehouse, Sam Goody, etc I went to back in the mid-late 80s.



Island Records was/is a subdivision of Universal Music Group.



Island was only acquired by UMG in 1999. Between 1989 and 1999 it was part of PolyGram. Before that they were an independent but a large one, having had such bands as U2, Bob Marley, Robert Palmer and the B-52s on their roster. With that kind of lineup they probably had some quite lucrative distribution deals which would've helped Anthrax get their music into shops.



Didn't know about them starting as an independent, or had forgotten about it. But even as an independent they were a lot bigger than the biggest player in the metal world, Roadrunner, at the time. So certainly bigger than Megaforce and Combat. I would say they were as big as Def Jam although Def Jam wasn't that big outside of rap.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  23.02.2015 at 01:42
Written by deadone on 23.02.2015 at 01:29

In other label related news, apparently Music For Nations is back.



yeah saw that a couple of days ago.

I still find it hilarious that Roadrunner had to be called Roadracer for a bit of time in the US due to the Roadrunner cartoon.
And somehow people think Roadrunner was an American record label.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  23.02.2015 at 02:04
Written by deadone on 23.02.2015 at 01:56


The Roadracer v Roadrunner thing used to confuse the crap out me when I was a teenager.


The funny thing was that Roadrunner was only called Roadracer in the US and Roadrunner everywhere, but US pressings also somehow ended up on the European market, so you'd get both Roadrunner and Roadracer pressings of the same album doing its rounds here.

Quote:

Ever since they had that massive downsizing a few years ago (including resignation of Cees Wessel), not much new metal stuff seems to be coming out of the Roadrunner camp. In fact they've lost a few big names ala Megadeth, Cradle of Filth, Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy.


Cees Wessels resigned when he sold Roadrunner to Warner late 2006 early 2007.

Megadeth was already way over its top when they signed to Roadrunner and didn't sell that well at all, so understandable that they would get dumped. Same for Soulfly and Cavalera Conspiracy, both bands didn't sell that much at all.
Weird thing is that Within Temptation was dumped, since they were by far ROadrunner's biggest seller together with SlipKnot and Nickelback.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  23.02.2015 at 02:46
Ah so Cees Wessels did stay on after he sold his share in Roadrunner. At the time some people said he did and others said he didn't.
No idea why he would stay on though. If I were him I would have gone and live on a tropical Island.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  23.02.2015 at 03:00
Written by deadone on 23.02.2015 at 02:53

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.02.2015 at 02:46

Ah so Cees Wessels did stay on after he sold his share in Roadrunner. At the time some people said he did and others said he didn't.
No idea why he would stay on though. If I were him I would have gone and live on a tropical Island.



It'd be hard for him to let go of something he spent nearly 30 years building up. Business owners tend to have a lot of themselves invested in their businesses - it's basically part of their identity.


I still find it hilarious that The Nylons was one of the first to release something on Roadrunner.

If I am not mistaken their first successful metal signing was Mercyful Fate who signed with them on June 25, 1983, the day they played Aardschokdag and they were the first ever band I saw live on that very same day.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Guib
Thrash Talker

Posts: 2371

Age: 25
From: Canada

  16.04.2015 at 22:56
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 20.02.2015 at 10:54

Overkill only started playing thrash after Metallica had a demo out. Before that they were a cover band.


Also eh... Just like that, Didn't ''Voivod'' release their demo ''Anachronism'' in 1983 way before Megadeth and then again they released ''War And Pain'' before ''Killing is my business''... and what about ''Suicidal Tendencies'' or ''Dr. Know'' unless Crossover
Doesn't count as part of the Thrash Movement which would hurt my feelings.

But yeah, gotta agree with Marcel on that one... It has nothing to do with who landed a contract first.
----
- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
vgmaster9

Posts: 100
From: USA
  01.09.2015 at 04:56
Personally, I feel that Saxon should be taken out and have Black Sabbath being in its place. Saxon could just be the honorable mention, just like Pantera for the American big four.
Guib
Thrash Talker

Posts: 2371

Age: 25
From: Canada

  07.09.2015 at 23:59
Written by vgmaster9 on 01.09.2015 at 04:56

Personally, I feel that Saxon should be taken out and have Black Sabbath being in its place. Saxon could just be the honorable mention, just like Pantera for the American big four.


I think you got it wrong, the Honorable mention would be either Testament, Overkill or Exodus... not Pantera XD
----
- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Ritual_Suicide
Account deleted
  13.09.2015 at 22:22
So I went through this thread and found rough estimates of album sales from bands who fit the OPs criteria that were mentioned;

Led Zeppelin: 200-300 million
Deep Purple: 100 million
Def Leppard: 100 million
Iron Maiden: 90 million
Black Sabbath: 70 million
Judas Priest: 45 million
Motorhead: 15 million
Saxon: 15 million
Diamond Head:
Venom:

So going by the criteria of the Big 4 of thrash (albums sales), Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Def Leppard and Iron Maiden would be the Big 4 of British Heavy Metal.
If you exclude bands who are debatably heavy metal then it would be Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest with Motorhead and Saxon tied for 4th.

Also the only thrash band who came close to the sales of the American Big 4 in the late 80's and early 90's was Testament. No other American thrash band came close.

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