Written by Doc G. on 29.10.2011 at 07:51

The feud comes from people too heavily identifying themselves with a form of music. There's just as much, if not more internal bickering between metal fans as there is for this metal vs punk thing. There's really no need to pick sides, as it really doesn't matter. As already discussed earlier in the thread - punk has many subgenres; some that have metal elements, or blur the lines between the two genres entirely, some sound completely incomparable to one another, metal works the same way. The petty fighting between metal and punk generally comes from 15 year olds who set their identity by their ipod playlist (yes, I was probably one of these), or infantile morons who get combative when you tell them the two genres were are very important to one another. Sure, ska and oi have little to do with metal, whereas hardcore and crust punk played a huge part in the development of certain metal genres. Power metal has little to do with punk, while listening to later career Exploited it's easy to see they take some bits from metal. In some aspects the two genres are brethren, in others they're as different as comparing country to rap.

So, friend or foe? Neither. Picking sides like that is pretty moronic either way.

+1

Both genres feed off one another and have many mutual influences. It's not about a confontation between 2 genres, but a complimentarity between them.

Metalheads and Punks are basically "cousins", not necessarily in terms of the music/sound, but definately in terms of the mindset. Metal tends to combat the church (mostly the extreme sub-genres), Punk combats the state (again, mostly the more extreme sub-genres haha) .......Both contain fanbases of rebellious and/or freethinking individuals. I've already stated before that Metal require alot of intelligence to listen to (like Classical music) just because of it's structure.....I think Punk would also require more intellect, not because of the structure (as it's simplistic), but maybe because of the content. So both sides are kindred spirits, any scrap the two sides have with each other would mostly be for petty/stupid reasons I imagine.

The only way I can see the two sides having bitter hatred for each other is if it's say.....Anarcho-Punk or Street Punk VS National Socialist Black Metal.

Written by Guest on 13.10.2012 at 23:36

The only way I can see the two sides having bitter hatred for each other is if it's say.....Anarcho-Punk or Street Punk VS National Socialist Black Metal.

Very true scenario.

I have also seen where Anarcho/Hardcore punks get pissy with death metalers because they think their art form is "pointless and silly." But usually these same punks love the Misfits...which always makes me laugh haha.

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 00:15

Written by Guest on 13.10.2012 at 23:36

The only way I can see the two sides having bitter hatred for each other is if it's say.....Anarcho-Punk or Street Punk VS National Socialist Black Metal.

Very true scenario.

I have also seen where Anarcho/Hardcore punks get pissy with death metalers because they think their art form is "pointless and silly." But usually these same punks love the Misfits...which always makes me laugh haha.

Ahhh, I also think gorey death metal is extremely foolish and pointless But what about bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, Behemoth, Angelcorpse, God Dethroned.... The content is something real punks should be able to appreciate as it antagonises things that they also don't care for...... Not all DM is gorey/serial killer/horror movie nonsense. Do they not know that?

Written by Guest on 14.10.2012 at 00:31

Ahhh, I also think gorey death metal is extremely foolish and pointless But what about bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, Behemoth, Angelcorpse, God Dethroned.... The content is something real punks should be able to appreciate as it antagonises things that they also don't care for...... Not all DM is gorey/serial killer/horror movie nonsense. Do they not know that?

Have you met any Anarcho punks? I have a couple who are very close friends (I started out in the hardcore/crust scene before I got into metal), I love them to death and share a ton of political views with them. Unfortunately, they are some of the most extremely close minded individuals I have ever met when it comes to music haha. They are aware that it isn't all blood gore and skull fucking, but they won't be bothered to take the time to really listen to it or care about it...so they just classify it all together as a bunch of useless garbled and silly mess haha.

Plus a lot of punks feel that DM lacks the energy or urgency that hardcore punk packs. Most are much more interested in BM, Grind, and Thrash.

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 00:43

Written by Guest on 14.10.2012 at 00:31

Ahhh, I also think gorey death metal is extremely foolish and pointless But what about bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, Behemoth, Angelcorpse, God Dethroned.... The content is something real punks should be able to appreciate as it antagonises things that they also don't care for...... Not all DM is gorey/serial killer/horror movie nonsense. Do they not know that?

Have you met any Anarcho punks? I have a couple who are very close friends (I started out in the hardcore/crust scene before I got into metal), I love them to death and share a ton of political views with them. Unfortunately, they are some of the most extremely close minded individuals I have ever met when it comes to music haha. They are aware that it isn't all blood gore and skull fucking, but they won't be bothered to take the time to really listen to it or care about it...so they just classify it all together as a bunch of useless garbled and silly mess haha.

Plus a lot of punks feel that DM lacks the energy or urgency that hardcore punk packs. Most are much more interested in BM, Grind, and Thrash.

No actually, I live in The Bahamas dude

The only sort of real Punk I've met, is one German skinhead in high school, him and I weren't all that close.
I suspect he drifted from me because of how I trolled him (I taunted him with sieg heil salutes bcuz he's German.....and apparently his grandfather was in the Hitler Youth.......I was an immature young man).
It sounds to me like your friends are sort of possessed by the scene.

DM lacks the energy? haha (unless they mean most of it isn't as politically driven, then okay.) Have they heard of Napalm Death? (their more recent stuff takes on more DM influences kind of) and Punks are into BM and aware of real BM? Interesting.

Written by Guest on 14.10.2012 at 00:57

It sounds to me like your friends are sort of possessed by the scene.

DM lacks the energy? haha (unless they mean most of it isn't as politically driven, then okay.) Have they heard of Napalm Death? (their more recent stuff takes on more DM influences kind of) and Punks are into BM and aware of real BM? Interesting.

If you called Napalm Death DM to a punk or grind head, you are liable to get punched in the face hahahah, they are and always will be grind to punkers.

I'm not saying that I think DM lacks energy. I am a fan for sure. But it's hard to explain the "kind" of energy that you get at a hardcore show or a grind show. I guess it is just the urgency and the message...it just amps everything up to 11. Plus it is usually a smaller venue, so the show is just that much more intimate.

I have seen Cannibal, Deicide, Possessed, Marduk, Exhummed, Gwar, 3 Inches of Blood, Danzig, and about a million more bands...all the shows were great, but few matched the energy I've experienced seeing some local crust, grind, hardcore acts.

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 01:32
If you called Napalm Death DM to a punk or grind head, you are liable to get punched in the face hahahah, they are and always will be grind to punkers.

Hahahahaha how silly, so to them Harmony Corruption never happened or what?

Cancer Bats, Savannah Sludge... I'd say we get along pretty well.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 14.10.2012 at 03:56

Cancer Bats, Savannah Sludge... I'd say we get along pretty well.

But Cancer Bats aren't punk...

Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.10.2012 at 02:52

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 01:32
If you called Napalm Death DM to a punk or grind head, you are liable to get punched in the face hahahah, they are and always will be grind to punkers.

Hahahahaha how silly, so to them Harmony Corruption never happened or what?

I agree with them. Napalm Death isn't DM. I feel that grind has evolved into a more "brutal" or perhaps "modern" form, but they are still grindcore.

It's not only the tone and riffs, its the mentality, lyrics, and song structure

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 05:23

Written by Boxcar Willy on 14.10.2012 at 03:56

Cancer Bats, Savannah Sludge... I'd say we get along pretty well.

But Cancer Bats aren't punk...

They have strong elements of punk in their music.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 14.10.2012 at 05:35

They have strong elements of punk in their music.

Nah!

Oh gawd!!! We had this argument months ago!

And everyone agreed that I was right and you were wrong, if I remember correctly

Napalm Death made pure death metal with Harmony Corruption nothing grind about that at all. It's about the music not the mentality and even the mentality wasn't grind because ND started playing death metal when they saw it was popular so they jumped the bandwagon.

Written by Branzig on 14.10.2012 at 05:25
I agree with them. Napalm Death isn't DM. I feel that grind has evolved into a more "brutal" or perhaps "modern" form, but they are still grindcore.

It's not only the tone and riffs, its the mentality, lyrics, and song structure

Their current albums aren't DM but you have to be deaf to hear Harmony Corruption and think it's not DM. I also must say I take with a pinch of salt the whole "it's about the mentality dude!" considering so many people claim which bands are of certain genre or not just based on lyrics, woah... BM is full of such bullshit for example... Like when I heard The Devil's Blood was a BM band or when people say that Dissection's third album was BM.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I'm not going to start a genre war here

While Harmony definitely was heavier, had more DM styled riffs...the lyrics and attitude was there. Also the album did more for the American grindcore scene than many may realize because it had a broader (DM community) audience. It got more metal heads and people into grind.

And for what it's worth, I think Harmony is their worse album haha.

Napalm Death are always at their worse when they play Death Metal becuase they tend to play totally generic death metal.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.10.2012 at 16:51

Napalm Death are always at their worse when they play Death Metal becuase they tend to play totally generic death metal.

I've always thought Fear Emptiness Despair was a great album, if you consider it death metal... which i don't see why you wouldn't

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.10.2012 at 16:51

Napalm Death are always at their worse when they play Death Metal becuase they tend to play totally generic death metal.

I've always thought Fear Emptiness Despair was a great album, if you consider it death metal... which i don't see why you wouldn't

Written by Alex F on 14.10.2012 at 17:52

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.10.2012 at 16:51

Napalm Death are always at their worse when they play Death Metal becuase they tend to play totally generic death metal.

I've always thought Fear Emptiness Despair was a great album, if you consider it death metal... which i don't see why you wouldn't

Found it totally generic and not good. Imo ND playing grindcore is where it's at.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.10.2012 at 17:56
Found it totally generic and not good. Imo ND playing grindcore is where it's at.

Which albums would that cover? I haven't heard their entire discography so I can only guess their grindcore period covers the first 2 albums... Then I get a big gap of stuff after Harmony Corruption which I haven't heard yet so I won't comment, I heard Order Of The Leech and from that point it felt grindcore to me since.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.10.2012 at 17:56

Imo ND playing grindcore is where it's at.

Agreed 100%

The funny thing is really like one of their "generic" DM albums - Harmony Corruption. partially probably because it was my first DM album and partially because i really do like the sound of the album. back in '91 i thought of it like a sonic typhoon.

I don't know if I'm the only one feeling that way, but it seems that when I go to fests and shows... where they mix both metal and punk, when there's crap between them, its always a punk who starts the shit O.o. I don't mind punks at all... but it seems they don't like us metalheads very much for a reason that I still don't fully comprehend. I think that we're friends essentially since we support the same events, like pretty much the same kind of music (well im a thrash and crossover fan so yeah...) Its just I think they can't stand us lolll Idk

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 06:46

I don't know if I'm the only one feeling that way, but it seems that when I go to fests and shows... where they mix both metal and punk, when there's crap between them, its always a punk who starts the shit O.o. I don't mind punks at all... but it seems they don't like us metalheads very much for a reason that I still don't fully comprehend. I think that we're friends essentially since we support the same events, like pretty much the same kind of music (well im a thrash and crossover fan so yeah...) Its just I think they can't stand us lolll Idk

Thrash and crossover are my favorite genres as well, and last time i saw Municipal Waste and GWAR there were alot of metalheads and punks at the show. There didnt seem to be any conflict whatsoever. Except for maybe in the pit but thats just the pit. Im going to see DRI this month too and they used to be hardcore punk back in the day then crossed over with their "Crossover" album so itll be interesting to see what happens there as well.

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:45

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 06:46

I don't know if I'm the only one feeling that way, but it seems that when I go to fests and shows... where they mix both metal and punk, when there's crap between them, its always a punk who starts the shit O.o. I don't mind punks at all... but it seems they don't like us metalheads very much for a reason that I still don't fully comprehend. I think that we're friends essentially since we support the same events, like pretty much the same kind of music (well im a thrash and crossover fan so yeah...) Its just I think they can't stand us lolll Idk

Thrash and crossover are my favorite genres as well, and last time i saw Municipal Waste and GWAR there were alot of metalheads and punks at the show. There didnt seem to be any conflict whatsoever. Except for maybe in the pit but thats just the pit. Im going to see DRI this month too and they used to be hardcore punk back in the day then crossed over with their "Crossover" album so itll be interesting to see what happens there as well.

Yeah DRI's great. But Idk man I saw a guy one time at ''Rockfest'' in montebello (where I come from basically) got into some trouble with a punk for no apparent reason and the punk was insane at best. lol

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 07:48

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:45

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 06:46

I don't know if I'm the only one feeling that way, but it seems that when I go to fests and shows... where they mix both metal and punk, when there's crap between them, its always a punk who starts the shit O.o. I don't mind punks at all... but it seems they don't like us metalheads very much for a reason that I still don't fully comprehend. I think that we're friends essentially since we support the same events, like pretty much the same kind of music (well im a thrash and crossover fan so yeah...) Its just I think they can't stand us lolll Idk

Thrash and crossover are my favorite genres as well, and last time i saw Municipal Waste and GWAR there were alot of metalheads and punks at the show. There didnt seem to be any conflict whatsoever. Except for maybe in the pit but thats just the pit. Im going to see DRI this month too and they used to be hardcore punk back in the day then crossed over with their "Crossover" album so itll be interesting to see what happens there as well.

Yeah DRI's great. But Idk man I saw a guy one time at ''Rockfest'' in montebello (where I come from basically) got into some trouble with a punk for no apparent reason and the punk was insane at best. lol

Punks are some crazy dudes. I asked my friend's dad what he thought of the movie SLC Punk one time if youve ever heard of that, because he was a punk skater back in the 80s and he said that movie was nothing compared to the shit him and his punk friends did.

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:53

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 07:48

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:45

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 06:46

Punks are some crazy dudes. I asked my friend's dad what he thought of the movie SLC Punk one time if youve ever heard of that, because he was a punk skater back in the 80s and he said that movie was nothing compared to the shit him and his punk friends did.

No I didn't see that movie but I'll probly check it out now. But yeah I know punks can sometimes be very extreme... But alot of them are pretty nice guys.

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 08:20

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:53

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 07:48

Written by Guest on 03.11.2012 at 07:45

Written by Guib on 03.11.2012 at 06:46

Punks are some crazy dudes. I asked my friend's dad what he thought of the movie SLC Punk one time if youve ever heard of that, because he was a punk skater back in the 80s and he said that movie was nothing compared to the shit him and his punk friends did.

No I didn't see that movie but I'll probly check it out now. But yeah I know punks can sometimes be very extreme... But alot of them are pretty nice guys.

Oh yeah for sure, that dude is one of the nicest guys ever, but you should definitely check out that movie. One of my favorites.

Love this idea or hate it, the best explanation of the two is "shitty metal is usually punk and good punk is usually metal."