I've always been slightly confused with the term "progressive". I understand its basic meaning (epic song structures, generally long songs), but people seem to the slap the label "progressive" on any band with long songs. Also I see bands considered progressive that don't sound progressive to me at all. Can someone please clear up this misconception?

Does my reply have to be lengthy to answer your question?

No.

Well that's not a very progressive answer fabs.

But no, length does not equal progressive. At least not always. I mean you've got 20-minute noise/drone tracks that certainly don't qualify as progressive, and you've got 3- or 4-minute tracks that qualify as progressive.

I think what makes something progressive is complex song structures, instrumental interplay, and time signature changes. Usually songs need to be long in order to portray all of those qualities, but it's not always the case.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.12.2011 at 06:10

I think what makes something progressive is complex song structures, instrumental interplay, and time signature changes. Usually songs need to be long in order to portray all of those qualities, but it's not always the case.

see now that confuses me, if you look at a band such as born of osiris, it is very simple music?? its not long, its slow and its not really that good?

am i missing something?



ill stick to my tech death.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.12.2011 at 06:14
see now that confuses me, if you look at a band such as born of osiris, it is very simple music?? its not long, its slow and its not really that good?

I don't understand your question, in spite of all the question marks in your post.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.12.2011 at 06:15

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.12.2011 at 06:14
see now that confuses me, if you look at a band such as born of osiris, it is very simple music?? its not long, its slow and its not really that good?

I don't understand your question, in spite of all the question marks in your post.

im not even sure I do






BOO is labelled as progressive, but it is not technical, long , there is not an tempo changes, so how is it progressive.


again, sticking with ma tech death

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.12.2011 at 06:21
BOO is labelled as progressive, but it is not technical, long , there is not an tempo changes, so how is it progressive.

Oh I understand now. Honestly I didn't bother with BOO so I can't say what about it people refer to as progressive, but I'm assuming the progressive tag is thrown in there as a result of it being a more "advanced" form of deathcore.

Not every progressive sub-tag is accurate. Oftentimes it seems to be attributed to anything that's seen as "complex" for its genre.

I agree with Troy with what constitutes Prog metal. A good example of a band pulling off short prog songs is Queensryche.

Progressive is a weird-ass term for music regardless. It suggests it's moving towards something, pushing the boundaries.
Some bands actually do that, but nowadays it seems it's a tag slapped onto any music that is just a little complex or whatever.
A lot of bands were progressive at some point, which makes the term even more stupid when it comes to music - you
sure as hell wouldn't call Black sabbath progressive, but at some point, they were doing things nobody did before them.

IMO progressive is used for songwritting. long loops, aditions of new elements throughout the song. The song seems to go really far and always return the the original riff. something like that. Nothing to do with breaking boudaries. For that we have Avant-Guarde

No. Examples: Myrath, Protest The Hero, just to name bands who released albums this year.

I think there was a similar thread about this somewhere too.

Progressive is sort of an umbrella term, I'm not even sure most musicians that play it would come to the specific terms on what progressive is and isn't.

About the song length, I have a major problem with bands making long songs just for the sake of them being long! This may be difficult to follow, but try. You know, if you're gonna make the song over ten minutes, sure, but don't drag same old riffs and lyrics throughout it.

Written by king_matt on 04.12.2011 at 05:37

Also I see bands considered progressive that don't sound progressive to me at all.

I was just thinking about this a few days ago.

I think that some bands may want to give some complexity (such as tempo changes or bizarre structures, not virtuoso riffs/solos) to their music just to add some flavor to it... and since that is one of the main features of prog music, one may label them as prog just for that when the band didn't have any real intention to sound proggy.

And yeah, I don't think the length of the song determines whether it is prog or not. It is more like a genre signature

Oh, another common feature in prog is that they don't follow the chorus-based song structure. This was present in old prog-rock mostly I think.

I say no..I mean have you heard Det Som Engang Var by Burzum? 14 min of black metal...

Written by Dechef on 04.12.2011 at 14:18
Progressive is a weird-ass term for music regardless. It suggests it's moving towards something, pushing the boundaries.
Some bands actually do that, but nowadays it seems it's a tag slapped onto any music that is just a little complex or whatever.
A lot of bands were progressive at some point, which makes the term even more stupid when it comes to music - you
sure as hell wouldn't call Black sabbath progressive, but at some point, they were doing things nobody did before them.

It sounds like you're mixing up progressive with avant-garde.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.12.2011 at 21:50

Written by Dechef on 04.12.2011 at 14:18
Progressive is a weird-ass term for music regardless. It suggests it's moving towards something, pushing the boundaries.
Some bands actually do that, but nowadays it seems it's a tag slapped onto any music that is just a little complex or whatever.
A lot of bands were progressive at some point, which makes the term even more stupid when it comes to music - you
sure as hell wouldn't call Black sabbath progressive, but at some point, they were doing things nobody did before them.

It sounds like you're mixing up progressive with avant-garde.

That may very well be true, which just goes to show how confusing those labels can be in the first place.
I was more talking about the dictionary definiton of progressive, though.

Progressive metal is a term you get when you cross progressive rock (which featured the stuff in Troy's first post) and the heaviness of metal. Sometimes a 'progressive' tag will be thrown in when a band has only a couple of those elements, or when it's a slightly more 'advanced' version of the original subgenre but not yet avantgarde.

People misuse the term a lot, so you'll have to decide what it means for you, but I think most people in this thread answered your question quite well

Of course they have to be long. "Progressive" is ancient Greek for "long".

Sarcasm aside, the simple answer is no. I'm pretty much completely anti-prog myself, but that is one question I know I can answer correctly about it.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.12.2011 at 06:21

BOO is labelled as progressive, but it is not technical, long , there is not an tempo changes, so how is it progressive.

I see enough technical passages and tempo changes to label it as progressive It doesn't even take more than the first two song of the latest album to see that it's technical.

Dont know but i always imagined that song is prog if it is somewhat "Pink floyid-ish "... tempo changes and high skill instrumental passages are stuff you call tech ,right?
Anyway it beats me ...i am not that into prog stuff...i find it boring so ...
EDIT: And than what the hell is avantgarde ? damn so many sub-genres sub definitions emerged lately...

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 05.12.2011 at 23:40
EDIT: And than what the hell is avantgarde ? damn so many sub-genres sub definitions emerged lately...

Avant-garde is, for all intents and purposes, something that can't really be defined. For instance, when Celtic Frost released To Mega Therion, people didn't know what to think. It was a mix of a lot of genres (some of which were still in the process of being defined) so it was simpler to call it avant-garde. Of course nowadays we know what folk, thrash, black, etc. are so we don't need to refer to them as avant-garde.

A good explanation would be to listen to something like Thy Catafalque.

Take into consideration Am I Evil by Diamond Head. Is this a progressive song because its long? I wouldnt think so. Like Troy said length has some part to it but not all.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.12.2011 at 23:46

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 05.12.2011 at 23:40
EDIT: And than what the hell is avantgarde ? damn so many sub-genres sub definitions emerged lately...

Avant-garde is, for all intents and purposes, something that can't really be defined. For instance, when Celtic Frost released To Mega Therion, people didn't know what to think. It was a mix of a lot of genres (some of which were still in the process of being defined) so it was simpler to call it avant-garde. Of course nowadays we know what folk, thrash, black, etc. are so we don't need to refer to them as avant-garde.

A good explanation would be to listen to something like Thy Catafalque.

well it makes sense when you put it that way...thanks for the info...

Written by X-Ray Rod on 05.12.2011 at 20:48

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.12.2011 at 06:21

BOO is labelled as progressive, but it is not technical, long , there is not an tempo changes, so how is it progressive.

I see enough technical passages and tempo changes to label it as progressive It doesn't even take more than the first two song of the latest album to see that it's technical.

tbh i only listened to bow down

Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.12.2011 at 23:46

Avant-garde is, for all intents and purposes, something that can't really be defined. For instance, when Celtic Frost released To Mega Therion, people didn't know what to think.

You mean "Into The Pandemonium" not "To Mega Therion" TMT is not a mix of styles really

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 06.12.2011 at 07:14
You mean "Into The Pandemonium" not "To Mega Therion" TMT is not a mix of styles really

Shit, I mix up names of things sometimes for bands I don't pay much attention to. I CAN ONLY HAVE SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE D:

Written by Troy Killjoy on 06.12.2011 at 07:16

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 06.12.2011 at 07:14
You mean "Into The Pandemonium" not "To Mega Therion" TMT is not a mix of styles really

Shit, I mix up names of things sometimes for bands I don't pay much attention to.

I hoped as much, because if you had been totally serious about I would certainly question your sanity