The fact that anything exists at all is an idea that just blows my mind, almost as much as the concept of nothing existing at all. If I spend too much time thinking about the full implications of either one my brain just falls off the tracks...

As for what phoenix is pointing at, I think a lot of what we speculate about the universe, even the mathematical theories, are most likely pretty displaced and useless propositions, for now anyway. And the idea of angels, ghosts, faeries, etc., I think of more as countless generations of creative people jumping at shadows and changes in the wind. The universe is a pretty dull and empty place, even earth. Most of earth is just blank space, look at the construction of an atom, just a few specks of dust and 99.999999% emptiness.

What I find most confusing about the universe are these particles. The universe is made up most exclusively of quarks, leptons, photons, conceptually things like gravitons, etc... Why do these elementary particles behave and interact the way that they do? Just why does existence perform this way? (obviously, I don't know much about them) There is absolutely nothing about any of this in any religion that I have ever heard of (pretty much assuring me that religion is just man's way of explaining things when nothing else will suffice). At this stage of man's history, I look at the universe and just see an endless list of unanswered questions, and they are questions that I don't think religion can answer anymore. Unfortunately, our science is a little blurry in this area as well.

Written by bard on 08.05.2009 at 00:08

The fact that anything exists at all is an idea that just blows my mind, almost as much as the concept of nothing existing at all. If I spend too much time thinking about the full implications of either one my brain just falls off the tracks...

As for what phoenix is pointing at, I think a lot of what we speculate about the universe, even the mathematical theories, are most likely pretty displaced and useless propositions, for now anyway. And the idea of angels, ghosts, faeries, etc., I think of more as countless generations of creative people jumping at shadows and changes in the wind. The universe is a pretty dull and empty place, even earth. Most of earth is just blank space, look at the construction of an atom, just a few specks of dust and 99.999999% emptiness.

What I find most confusing about the universe are these particles. The universe is made up most exclusively of quarks, leptons, photons, conceptually things like gravitons, etc... Why do these elementary particles behave and interact the way that they do? Just why does existence perform this way? (obviously, I don't know much about them) There is absolutely nothing about any of this in any religion that I have ever heard of (pretty much assuring me that religion is just man's way of explaining things when nothing else will suffice). At this stage of man's history, I look at the universe and just see an endless list of unanswered questions, and they are questions that I don't think religion can answer anymore. Unfortunately, our science is a little blurry in this area as well.

For me it's more of a matter of "It's all possible". Why if one things exists (Aliens) why does that take the place of the existance of something else (Angels, God, Goddess, etc.)? Like why can't it be both of them showing up at varrying times throughout the bible and then stuff comming up and through from there?

Generally religion doesn't exactly answer that stuff, spiritual practices can but not in the general sorta way science does. The problem with science is that it won't take into account things that you can't physically record/see. It just says "there's no proof" leading one to conclude it's not in existance. Sometimes when it come it comes to answers they find us. It's also something that happens in life as well. When we're ready it comes to us.

The particles illustrate that we're all compose of smaller parts that make a whole, and in turn we all are smaller parts creating a larger whole. The particles themselves offer structure and put things into structure... That end's gonna take up a ton of space if I keep going.

Oh, and just so I'm clear.... I don't believe in a singular universe, I believe in a multiverse. It encompases everything that we can and can't see. It's all real and it's all there. That's the thing. It's just a matter of it can't all interact with everything on the same level due to where it is placed.

Written by Ph0eNiX on 08.05.2009 at 03:38

Oh, and just so I'm clear.... I don't believe in a singular universe, I believe in a multiverse. It encompases everything that we can and can't see. It's all real and it's all there. That's the thing. It's just a matter of it can't all interact with everything on the same level due to where it is placed.

There is significant evidence suggesting the existence of multiple universes. Or rather, a large number, perhaps even infinite, collection of "spaces" (therefore "times" as well).

Written by wormdrink414 on 10.08.2009 at 01:03

Written by Ph0eNiX on 08.05.2009 at 03:38

Oh, and just so I'm clear.... I don't believe in a singular universe, I believe in a multiverse. It encompases everything that we can and can't see. It's all real and it's all there. That's the thing. It's just a matter of it can't all interact with everything on the same level due to where it is placed.

There is significant evidence suggesting the existence of multiple universes. Or rather, a large number, perhaps even infinite, collection of "spaces" (therefore "times" as well).

God damn it, Walter! What the fuck does this have to do with Vietnam, man?! You mean the existence of multiverses as stated above, not multiple universes. Uni is the implies one, man.

It would certainly be intriguing if that point could be proven.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 21.01.2010 at 13:45

Written by wormdrink414 on 10.08.2009 at 01:03

Written by Ph0eNiX on 08.05.2009 at 03:38

Oh, and just so I'm clear.... I don't believe in a singular universe, I believe in a multiverse. It encompases everything that we can and can't see. It's all real and it's all there. That's the thing. It's just a matter of it can't all interact with everything on the same level due to where it is placed.

There is significant evidence suggesting the existence of multiple universes. Or rather, a large number, perhaps even infinite, collection of "spaces" (therefore "times" as well).

God damn it, Walter! What the fuck does this have to do with Vietnam, man?! You mean the existence of multiverses as stated above, not multiple universes. Uni is the implies one, man.

It would certainly be intriguing if that point could be proven.

Apparently physicists will be able to state definitively that the word universe is a misnomer once enough data is collected with the Large Hadron Collider. So my English might suffer the flaw for two different reasons.

My favorite Walter quote: "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."

A friend of mine who has never studied anything like Physics, but is only intrigued by it, stated that the existence of a multiverse is impossible. He rambled for about two minutes and I think most of what he said made no sense whatsoever.

In other words, what in god's (un)holy name was he blathering about? But yeah, I need to look more into this shit myself.

Wow, speaking of shit...gotta go, lol

Okay, so planetary systems are also crap?

It is different worlds revolving around a gravity center (a star) so in that same idea why would the idea of the multiverse not make sense? Not literallty the same thing but a like sembelance type of construction.

Also if a macrocosm and a microcosm exist in some way then why would it be impossible?

When it comes to my thoughts on this then it doesn't seem impossible, more to the idea of "not proven in a physical way/scientific way that can be explained to everyone based on where we are at with science so far".

HAHA! I love these topics! I personally have no real theory on how it started, but I think that the Universe is not one of a kind. Think about it, It has to end somewhere, and when it does end something else has to start. So maybe there are universes similar or completely opposite of ours. For instance, antimatter. There could very well be another iniverse made entirely out of antimatter, meaning that if OUr universe met with that universe, then instant doom on us.

Written by Ph0eNiX on 15.02.2010 at 19:04

Okay, so planetary systems are also crap?

It is different worlds revolving around a gravity center (a star) so in that same idea why would the idea of the multiverse not make sense? Not literallty the same thing but a like sembelance type of construction.
........

I watched recently a tv documentary about the moon -and how it was formed (various theories), how it affects life on earth (tides) and all the gravity relevant issues... It was quite interesting.

Many years ago i read the Hawking's classic A brief history of time-illustrated - unique & mindcapturing book that explains many things in simple words. I think the human quest for the grand unified theories is nothing but a race against ourselves. To understand our existence thoroughly. The recent years tons of university ph.d's are conducted, small steps to make the difference. All lead to theories that hope to give some tools and help in advance the mind.

Universe is so endless & vast; according to our perception, but also beautiful and a fascinating subject to discuss. If you have clear sky (especially in the summer) take a walk away from the city lights and watch the night sky...

You are going to be surprised of how many things you'll understand!

Ah, love this one.
I think there is no use to try to force our minds to describe something such as Universe. I believe, everyone of us is a part of it, and knows it all, we just forgot and must remind ourselves.
I know this may sound crazy, but if you can twist inside out every human beign, this energy, you will get the Universe.

Written by Alphafemale on 25.03.2010 at 15:22

Ah, love this one.
I think there is no use to try to force our minds to describe something such as Universe. I believe, everyone of us is a part of it, and knows it all, we just forgot and must remind ourselves.
I know this may sound crazy, but if you can twist inside out every human being, this energy, you will get the Universe.

What are you smoking, Dude?

There is definitely a rhyme and reason to understanding the Universe and it's mysteries. It has a lot to do with our origins and it's very fascinating to find out what will happen next. People who really don't understand the Universe always lean towards abstract definitions.

Here are a few things science can tell you about the universe.
-The Universe began 13,72 Billion years ago. Well, the Astrophysicists are at least certain enough to say the Universe is neither 14 Billion years old or 13,5.
-Nothing is no longer nothing. There is no part in the known Universe with nothing.
-& Dark Matter...way too complex...way...way...way....
-They can tell you what happened within the first few thousand years of the Universe
-Quantum fluctuations could have literally created a Universe from scratch.
-It's safe to say that the Universe is nearly flat. Seriously.

Are there more universes outside of ours? What happened right before the Big Bang? How will the Universe end, etc., etc. those are the big questions posed today.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 27.03.2010 at 12:01

Written by Alphafemale on 25.03.2010 at 15:22

Ah, love this one.
I think there is no use to try to force our minds to describe something such as Universe. I believe, everyone of us is a part of it, and knows it all, we just forgot and must remind ourselves.
I know this may sound crazy, but if you can twist inside out every human being, this energy, you will get the Universe.

What are you smoking, Dude?

People who really don't understand the Universe always lean towards abstract definitions.

I wouldn't jump to accusations if I were you.
You just can't know if your opinion is 'more right' then mine.
Science is a pretty fascinating thing,but I believe we still haven't reached the level on which we can be able to understand the whole concept of the world.
And did you ever think we know that much that 'they' want us to know.

And, no, I do not smoke.

Written by Alphafemale on 29.03.2010 at 11:44

Written by TheBigRossowski on 27.03.2010 at 12:01

Written by Alphafemale on 25.03.2010 at 15:22

Ah, love this one.
I think there is no use to try to force our minds to describe something such as Universe. I believe, everyone of us is a part of it, and knows it all, we just forgot and must remind ourselves.
I know this may sound crazy, but if you can twist inside out every human being, this energy, you will get the Universe.

What are you smoking, Dude?

People who really don't understand the Universe always lean towards abstract definitions.

I wouldn't jump to accusations if I were you.
You just can't know if your opinion is 'more right' then mine.
Science is a pretty fascinating thing,but I believe we still haven't reached the level on which we can be able to understand the whole concept of the world.
And did you ever think we know that much that 'they' want us to know.

And, no, I do not smoke.

Relax, mannn, that was just like, ugh, ugh, my opinion. At least in terms of smoking and abstract thought. What do you mean, the concept of the world?

I'm pretty sure there are enough scientists in different branches to be sure we're getting some decent information. We know a lot more about the Universe than you think we do.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 29.03.2010 at 16:03

Written by Alphafemale on 29.03.2010 at 11:44

Written by TheBigRossowski on 27.03.2010 at 12:01

Written by Alphafemale on 25.03.2010 at 15:22

Ah, love this one.
I think there is no use to try to force our minds to describe something such as Universe. I believe, everyone of us is a part of it, and knows it all, we just forgot and must remind ourselves.
I know this may sound crazy, but if you can twist inside out every human being, this energy, you will get the Universe.

What are you smoking, Dude?

People who really don't understand the Universe always lean towards abstract definitions.

I wouldn't jump to accusations if I were you.
You just can't know if your opinion is 'more right' then mine.
Science is a pretty fascinating thing,but I believe we still haven't reached the level on which we can be able to understand the whole concept of the world.
And did you ever think we know that much that 'they' want us to know.

And, no, I do not smoke.

Relax, mannn, that was just like, ugh, ugh, my opinion. At least in terms of smoking and abstract thought. What do you mean, the concept of the world?

I'm pretty sure there are enough scientists in different branches to be sure we're getting some decent information. We know a lot more about the Universe than you think we do.

Or a lot less...

The more we know, the more realize how little we know. You're both right. Let's get on with it. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish.

FUCK!, I was halfway through with a nice full scale attack on the concepts posted so far, but it was lost due to the "last page"-button on my (%&#/&ing mouse. So here is the short version:

On the level of language don't abuse scientific terminology to hide the lack of meaning. Energy is just the potential to do work on an object, eg. accelerate a mass or raise an electron to an exited state in an atom. If you mean anything else, use a different word or explain further.

For a concept to have any meaning at all it must make some kind of assertion that is at least in principle connected with observable reality, otherwise its meaningless. There might be an alternative universe filled with dick-shaped orange bananas, yet without any means to connect the realities the universe its existence would be exactly the same thing as its non-existence from our point of view.

We can classify things into knowns and unkowns, but as we already know more about the knowns, the speculations we make about the unknown should not contradict known facts.

Occam's Razor should be applied to concepts. Especially when complicated concepts are equivalent to simple ones in every prediction they make. For example you can in fact describe the movements in the solar system with a geocentric model, which is just as valid as the heliocentric. Just the equations look more ugly and can be reduced to Kepler's laws by coordinate transformation.

Written by Guest on 30.03.2010 at 00:21

FUCK!, I was halfway through with a nice full scale attack on the concepts posted so far, but it was lost due to the "last page"-button on my (%&#/&ing mouse. So here is the short version:

On the level of language don't abuse scientific terminology to hide the lack of meaning. Energy is just the potential to do work on an object, eg. accelerate a mass or raise an electron to an exited state in an atom. If you mean anything else, use a different word or explain further.

For a concept to have any meaning at all it must make some kind of assertion that is at least in principle connected with observable reality, otherwise its meaningless. There might be an alternative universe filled with dick-shaped orange bananas, yet without any means to connect the realities the universe its existence would be exactly the same thing as its non-existence from our point of view.

We can classify things into knowns and unkowns, but as we already know more about the knowns, the speculations we make about the unknown should not contradict known facts.

Occam's Razor should be applied to concepts. Especially when complicated concepts are equivalent to simple ones in every prediction they make. For example you can in fact describe the movements in the solar system with a geocentric model, which is just as valid as the heliocentric. Just the equations look more ugly and can be reduced to Kepler's laws by coordinate transformation.

I respect all that, but I gave up this kind of 'mental explanations' long time ago.
Of,course,all you wrote is ok, but I just begin to look at things from a different perspective.
I believe we are all energy,and not 'energy' in terms of your definition. I think it is useless to try to type all this down.
I believe the Universe is not a big mystery for mankind, but a home, a map, that all the beings know within them...only problem is that we forgot the most of it, tnx to the manipulation we see every day where secondary information became the priority one.

In some of ancient learnings the person is divided in 3 parts: 'basic i', 'mental i' and a 'higher i'.
The 'basic i' is described as a little child inside us all, 'mental i' is the 'i' through which the most humanity lives, and the 'higher i' is the true one, which connects all 3 of 'i's.
And so, since this dimension in which we live is made for 'mental i', people are trying so hard to mentaly explain all the things around them, not realizing that they themselves are the part of it all. 'higher i' just knows, without definitions and rules, and finds all the answers within itself (here comes the 'mental' explanation: we only use the small percent of our brain,imagine what abilities are hidden in the parts that we do not use).

I believe most of you will find my post stupid and funny, and you may also think i'm some kind of hippie freak, but only thing I can say is, that it all makes a perfect sense, once you allow yourself to grow on may different levels.

Written by Alphafemale on 30.03.2010 at 12:38

Written by Guest on 30.03.2010 at 00:21

I believe most of you will find my post stupid and funny, and you may also think i'm some kind of hippie freak, but only thing I can say is, that it all makes a perfect sense, once you allow yourself to grow on may different levels.

No, not at all, Dude! This isn't youtube or some other intolerant website. What kind of gratification does one have in always bashing the hopeful thinking of others. None...or at least I don't. What you wrote was pretty far-out, as the Great Duderino would say.

I prefer to stick my introduction to Astronomy/Cosmology books and videos, but what you wrote was pretty interesting in it's own manner.

And now I wish I wouldn't have erased everything that other Dude said because I wanted to quote the part about dicks...or bananas or something.

I somehow managed to really fuck that quote up, lol. Oh well, now I could see that funny part again about ''an alternative universe filled with dick-shaped orange bananas...''

The Universe abides!

Wow awesome topic! This has become kind of my obsessions as of lately. I find everything that has to do with the Universe and the cosmos so fascinating.

And well usually I just refrain from discussions of this or other topic, mainly because I struggle to make my mind or put into word my many different opinions. I feel like I'm just learning from everyone and everything. But I wanted to say that I'm kind of with Alphafemale in this one. See I love science, is like our most wonderful tool to understand all of this, but then there's a point in which it becomes pointless. The way I see it, is like every time we try to explain anything, we're just using our perception, we're limited by the way we see and perceive the world, not to mention language and all the things we can use our brains for. No matter how intelligent or educated studies and thing we have, it's all still limited by what we as species perceive (which is amazing and mind blowing the moment you stop to think about it). But there might be way waaay too much things that is impossible for us to explain, and it comes down to when there's not really a need to try to explain, because we're in fact part of it. Is like we ourselves are the universe and we know everything about it, just in another level. I think that sometimes scientists or some people in general give theories and talk about the universe, and is all very interesting but is like they think and speak as if we were a separate entity from the Universe trying to explain it and make it make sense with what we see, when in fact we're part of it. But anyway I just love to hear so many different opinions and learn about all the different things we can come up with, including religions and all, which I myself dismiss all the time.

Written by Danigar on 30.03.2010 at 19:35

Wow awesome topic! This has become kind of my obsessions as of lately. I find everything that has to do with the Universe and the cosmos so fascinating.

And well usually I just refrain from discussions of this or other topic, mainly because I struggle to make my mind or put into word my many different opinions. I feel like I'm just learning from everyone and everything. But I wanted to say that I'm kind of with Alphafemale in this one. See I love science, is like our most wonderful tool to understand all of this, but then there's a point in which it becomes pointless. The way I see it, is like every time we try to explain anything, we're just using our perception, we're limited by the way we see and perceive the world, not to mention language and all the things we can use our brains for. No matter how intelligent or educated studies and thing we have, it's all still limited by what we as species perceive (which is amazing and mind blowing the moment you stop to think about it). But there might be way waaay too much things that is impossible for us to explain, and it comes down to when there's not really a need to try to explain, because we're in fact part of it. Is like we ourselves are the universe and we know everything about it, just in another level. I think that sometimes scientists or some people in general give theories and talk about the universe, and is all very interesting but is like they think and speak as if we were a separate entity from the Universe trying to explain it and make it make sense with what we see, when in fact we're part of it. But anyway I just love to hear so many different opinions and learn about all the different things we can come up with, including religions and all, which I myself dismiss all the time.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 30.03.2010 at 17:33

Written by Alphafemale on 30.03.2010 at 12:38

Written by Guest on 30.03.2010 at 00:21

I believe most of you will find my post stupid and funny, and you may also think i'm some kind of hippie freak, but only thing I can say is, that it all makes a perfect sense, once you allow yourself to grow on may different levels.

No, not at all, Dude! This isn't youtube or some other intolerant website. What kind of gratification does one have in always bashing the hopeful thinking of others. None...or at least I don't. What you wrote was pretty far-out, as the Great Duderino would say.

I prefer to stick my introduction to Astronomy/Cosmology books and videos, but what you wrote was pretty interesting in it's own manner.

And now I wish I wouldn't have erased everything that other Dude said because I wanted to quote the part about dicks...or bananas or something.

Ok, but glad we understand each other

That all sounds nice, but you've gotta consider the people who started learning and studying all this stuff. If everyone thought there was just TOO much impossible stuff in the Universe and stopped trying to learn things through science and observation, we never would have came so far as we are today!

We are a part of the Universe...a special part, regardless if we think so or not. However, that doesn't mean we have to stop trying to figure things out. All of the best science has happened in the past four hundred years. If mankind makes it another four hundred, imagine where we'll be then.

Maybe multiverses will be fact, who knows!

Until then, we're just the PALE BLUE DOT (yeah...Carl Sagan, man!)

Written by TheBigRossowski on 31.03.2010 at 13:29

That all sounds nice, but you've gotta consider the people who started learning and studying all this stuff. If everyone thought there was just TOO much impossible stuff in the Universe and stopped trying to learn things through science and observation, we never would have came so far as we are today!

We are a part of the Universe...a special part, regardless if we think so or not. However, that doesn't mean we have to stop trying to figure things out. All of the best science has happened in the past four hundred years. If mankind makes it another four hundred, imagine where we'll be then.

Maybe multiverses will be fact, who knows!

Until then, we're just the PALE BLUE DOT (yeah...Carl Sagan, man!)

I never said that science is bad and that people don't have to research. The opposite, researching and learning is a natural thing to do it and I support it 100%, and I think it's wonderful.
My only point is that there are no limits.

I my opinion,what science does, is a microstudying of the 'universal mechanics', and the other things I mentioned are the 'soul of the Universe'.
People also have bodies and souls (or whatever you like to call that), so does the Universe.

Sagan rulz!

Somewhat on the topic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8593780.stm

Heard about that in the news here and on MSN. Pretty far out stuff, man. I heard they're rolling their way into the Semis, Dios mio, man!

Http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Design-Stephen-Hawking/dp/0553805371

I want!

I believe in the current Futurama philosophy that time will keep going on and on until about 1 000 000 000 AD when the universe implodes on itself, creating the exact same cycle that came before it...another big bang and the a repetition of the cycle that came before it...