Written by Ganondox on 23.02.2015 at 08:33

Written by ADIresiduos on 20.02.2015 at 00:50

I guess false metal would be a wanna-be "metal" band..... Baby Metal anyone?

The rest are just sub-genres.

Mainstream is bad? of course not! this is how a lot more people will get to know metal and further expand the metal community.
I started with AC/DC (classic rock) many years ago and now I hear some death, prog, alt, metal, extreme, etc.

How is Baby Metal not metal? Sure, they're an idol group, but that doesn't make their music any less metal.

In this case I disagree; I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was; IMO they're maybe a pop rock kid band, but definately not metal... I can't imagine them opening for Megadeth.

Written by ADIresiduos on 23.02.2015 at 22:50

I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was

That's hilarious.
Where can I read that?

Written by ADIresiduos on 23.02.2015 at 22:50


In this case I disagree; I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was; IMO they're maybe a pop rock kid band, but definately not metal... I can't imagine them opening for Megadeth.

true. considering GImme Chocolate has more balls than anything off Super Collider. and that's sad on many levels.

Written by Karlabos on 23.02.2015 at 23:44

Written by ADIresiduos on 23.02.2015 at 22:50

I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was

That's hilarious.
Where can I read that?

It's everywhere, text and video interviews.
They were 10 years old (that's young even by idols standards) when the band was created. I didn't have a clue what metal was at that age, started digging music at 14.

Written by ADIresiduos on 23.02.2015 at 22:50

Written by Ganondox on 23.02.2015 at 08:33

Written by ADIresiduos on 20.02.2015 at 00:50

I guess false metal would be a wanna-be "metal" band..... Baby Metal anyone?

The rest are just sub-genres.

Mainstream is bad? of course not! this is how a lot more people will get to know metal and further expand the metal community.
I started with AC/DC (classic rock) many years ago and now I hear some death, prog, alt, metal, extreme, etc.

How is Baby Metal not metal? Sure, they're an idol group, but that doesn't make their music any less metal.

In this case I disagree; I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was; IMO they're maybe a pop rock kid band, but definately not metal... I can't imagine them opening for Megadeth.

So? The attitude of the girls has no bearing on the music's genre. Their music is still clearly metal, they are just an idol group and thus incorporate general idol fakery.

Written by Ganondox on 24.02.2015 at 09:47

Written by ADIresiduos on 23.02.2015 at 22:50

Written by Ganondox on 23.02.2015 at 08:33

Written by ADIresiduos on 20.02.2015 at 00:50

I guess false metal would be a wanna-be "metal" band..... Baby Metal anyone?

The rest are just sub-genres.

Mainstream is bad? of course not! this is how a lot more people will get to know metal and further expand the metal community.
I started with AC/DC (classic rock) many years ago and now I hear some death, prog, alt, metal, extreme, etc.

How is Baby Metal not metal? Sure, they're an idol group, but that doesn't make their music any less metal.

In this case I disagree; I read an interview they had with Babymetal and the girls mentioned that they didn't had a clue of what metal was; IMO they're maybe a pop rock kid band, but definately not metal... I can't imagine them opening for Megadeth.

So? The attitude of the girls has no bearing on the music's genre. Their music is still clearly metal, they are just an idol group and thus incorporate general idol fakery.

I think you nailed it with your last phrase: idol fakery. Metal? is there a little kid metal sub-genre? ok, maybe they would fit in such sub-genre. Although it would be interesting to see them when they grow up and decide to do metal, in the vein of Kittie, In This Moment, Butcher Babies, Cripper, etc.
IMO, yes, attitude has a lot to do with metal. They say Black Sabbath started it all and their documentaries show what their attitude was back then when they were starting something new and unique.
Dee Snider mentioned in an interview that after the Stay Hungry record, and after selling millions of records of it, he was living the high life: cars, women, luxury... so then he started to have a hard time writing new stuff, good stuff, why? he had it all, he was not "hungry" or "angry" anymore... something was missing... attitude maybe?
I'm not saying that being rich is bad for metal bands, but they have to have the right attitude to be able to transmit metal / rock music to the listener.

Written by ADIresiduos on 24.02.2015 at 17:00

I think you nailed it with your last phrase: idol fakery. Metal? is there a little kid metal sub-genre? ok, maybe they would fit in such sub-genre. Although it would be interesting to see them when they grow up and decide to do metal, in the vein of Kittie, In This Moment, Butcher Babies, Cripper, etc.
IMO, yes, attitude has a lot to do with metal. They say Black Sabbath started it all and their documentaries show what their attitude was back then when they were starting something new and unique.
Dee Snider mentioned in an interview that after the Stay Hungry record, and after selling millions of records of it, he was living the high life: cars, women, luxury... so then he started to have a hard time writing new stuff, good stuff, why? he had it all, he was not "hungry" or "angry" anymore... something was missing... attitude maybe?
I'm not saying that being rich is bad for metal bands, but they have to have the right attitude to be able to transmit metal / rock music to the listener.

So, what exactly is attitude in a music context and how does it translate into music? If you're really angry in the recording studio while while playing your instrument, does the recorded music also reflect that? With vocals it's quite simple usually - from the tone of the voice you can usually tell the emotions of the speaker/singer, but what about music itself? Does the guitarist play faster and drummer hits harder? Or let us put it in a different way which reflects the case of Babymetal better - if a guitarist plays an unknown (to the player) piece of music from a sheet which is the main riff of [some_well-known_and_irrefutably_metal_song], is he playing metal? If not, then what is he playing then? Hard rock? Country?

I do not really wish to discredit the existence of "inspiration" or "attitude", but maybe Dee Snider just didn't know what to write? Had a case of writers block? Went to the studio to, sat down with the guitar to compose and no good ideas (as in better than previous stuff) came to mind. Just like a writer after writing a best-selling novel.

Written by Charly546 on 24.02.2015 at 17:38

Written by ADIresiduos on 24.02.2015 at 17:00

I think you nailed it with your last phrase: idol fakery. Metal? is there a little kid metal sub-genre? ok, maybe they would fit in such sub-genre. Although it would be interesting to see them when they grow up and decide to do metal, in the vein of Kittie, In This Moment, Butcher Babies, Cripper, etc.
IMO, yes, attitude has a lot to do with metal. They say Black Sabbath started it all and their documentaries show what their attitude was back then when they were starting something new and unique.
Dee Snider mentioned in an interview that after the Stay Hungry record, and after selling millions of records of it, he was living the high life: cars, women, luxury... so then he started to have a hard time writing new stuff, good stuff, why? he had it all, he was not "hungry" or "angry" anymore... something was missing... attitude maybe?
I'm not saying that being rich is bad for metal bands, but they have to have the right attitude to be able to transmit metal / rock music to the listener.

So, what exactly is attitude in a music context and how does it translate into music? If you're really angry in the recording studio while while playing your instrument, does the recorded music also reflect that? With vocals it's quite simple usually - from the tone of the voice you can usually tell the emotions of the speaker/singer, but what about music itself? Does the guitarist play faster and drummer hits harder? Or let us put it in a different way which reflects the case of Babymetal better - if a guitarist plays an unknown (to the player) piece of music from a sheet which is the main riff of [some_well-known_and_irrefutably_metal_song], is he playing metal? If not, then what is he playing then? Hard rock? Country?

I do not really wish to discredit the existence of "inspiration" or "attitude", but maybe Dee Snider just didn't know what to write? Had a case of writers block? Went to the studio to, sat down with the guitar to compose and no good ideas (as in better than previous stuff) came to mind. Just like a writer after writing a best-selling novel.

I believe that in a certain way, recorded music does reflect the attitude of the musician. Just as an example, compare Stairway To Heaven (Zeppelin) vs Angel Of Death (Slayer). The first one is kind of soothing and emotional rock music and the 2nd is total mayhem. Each of them (musicians) had to be in a certain mood or had a certain attitude to be able to write and perform the way they did, and thus be able to transmit it through their recordings.
I know that mood and the attitude are intangible things, but are indeed present when we transmit a message, be it spoken, music, written, etc.
I myself am a guitar player and vocalist (mostly rock / metal), been in metal bands and have written original music / songs; at least for me, mood and attitude are present when writting music. You do have a point about writers block, because sometimes one is just not in the mood or inspired enough to create something.
When a session musician plays based on a music sheet, let's say a metal riff, mood and attitude have to be at par with what their playing, if not, then there are chances that the final cut will sound flat, uninspired, boring, even if it's stil a metal riff.
Maybe the guitar player from Babymetal does feel the metal music and thus performs very well, but when combined with the little girls voices... well.... it just doesn't cut it for me.

All that talk is cute, but it doesn't make Babymetal any less metal. It's crap, sure, but no big words needed.

There is no "false metal". </thread>

Written by Ilham on 24.02.2015 at 18:53

All that talk is cute, but it doesn't make Babymetal any less metal. It's crap, sure, but no big words needed.

There is no "false metal". </thread>

I guess you're right: metal is metal, good or bad, as long as it sounds like metal or at least a hint of metal.

Written by ADIresiduos on 25.02.2015 at 00:00

I guess you're right: metal is metal, good or bad, as long as it sounds like metal or at least a hint of metal.

You said it better than I did. ;-)

Manowar --- false metal, well metal is metal, what make it its guitar sound, instrument sound , many genres subgenres, of course posers are everywhere, but all depends of taste, you can feel what is good and bad. if you like , don't like
what describe genre is guitar sound, nothing more ... so Venom is speed, thrash metal, Saxon will not be black metal if they will have satanistic lyrics
Immortal is black metal, not Nordic or cold metal (as Xronos wants)

It has to be heavy.

This is the same kind of discussions they must have at ISIS' meetings or something.

The most important criteria would be:

1) Most of the songs are not written by any member of the band, but rather by some hired (star-)producer.
2) The music is engineered to take advantage of current trends (in either music and/or fashion) in such a way as to achieve maximum commercial success in as short time as possible. (Note: not the same thing as being mainstream or commercially successful, just cynically manufactured for that purpose alone)
3) The singer sounds too whiny but does not sing about dragons.

-_- Alright, just face it... It's not because you don't like a Metal band that it's not metal. You can have Fake Idolatry all over the place, who cares... if there's heavy twin guitars shreddin' riffs, loud drums pummelin' and a bass in the back.. no matter if it's 3 asian schoolgirls fronting that, it's most likely metal. The attitude, trend or the gimmick behind it simply do not describe metal music, why? I just fuckin' said it.. it's music, it's all about sound. Why are we even arguing this... Isn't it fucking obvious to everyone? Don't be too butt hurt because some band turn your ''Oh so precious'' metal world into a Japanese freak-show once in a while...

Written by Cavernous on 28.10.2015 at 20:04

This is the same kind of discussions they must have at ISIS' meetings or something.

... before shouting DeMaioHu AKbar and lopping off the heads of heretics and blasphemers. With Power.

and welcome back.

Every metal record I do not like is false metal.

"false metal" seems like a chemistry definition for certain elements or something

Metal fiction.

While legitimate metal is for individualists, false metal is for the herd. False metal is like that mallcore shit what trend-followers flock towards. False metal is limited by a certain time period (as are all trends) because no matter what form it takes (whether metalcore or nu-metal) is nothing more than a shitty fad. Legitimate metal performers however, transcend fads and time periods. False metal fans have the audacity to call themselves metal fans, yet have never heard of Venom, Celtic Frost or Morbid Angel.

Like whatever music you enjoy, just please don't call it something that it isn't!

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 13.11.2017 at 03:05

While legitimate metal is for individualists, false metal is for the herd. False metal is like that mallcore shit what trend-followers flock towards. False metal is limited by a certain time period (as are all trends) because no matter what form it takes (whether metalcore or nu-metal) is nothing more than a shitty fad. Legitimate metal performers however, transcend fads and time periods. False metal fans have the audacity to call themselves metal fans, yet have never heard of Venom, Celtic Frost or Morbid Angel.

Like whatever music you enjoy, just please don't call it something that it isn't!

Very true!

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 13.11.2017 at 03:05

While legitimate metal is for individualists, false metal is for the herd.

What does that mean in a practical sense? You can't deny that a lot of quality metal is appealing to the masses. Also, I don't see what's wrong with being part of a herd. In fact, I've never seen anything more common than a belief that one is different or special...

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 13.11.2017 at 03:05

False metal fans have the audacity to call themselves metal fans, yet have never heard of Venom, Celtic Frost or Morbid Angel.

Like whatever music you enjoy, just please don't call it something that it isn't!

What do you mean by "have the audacity"? It's not like being into a particular genre makes one better than those, who prefer other types of music. "Metal fan" or "metalhead" is not a title worthy of special recognition.

As to your final statement, can you give me an actual example of "a false metal band" as in a band that doesn't play metal, but is considered metal?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything, it's just that the claims you've made make no sense to me.

Written by Metren on 13.11.2017 at 15:32

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 13.11.2017 at 03:05

While legitimate metal is for individualists, false metal is for the herd.

What does that mean in a practical sense? You can't deny that a lot of quality metal is appealing to the masses. Also, I don't see what's wrong with being part of a herd. In fact, I've never seen anything more common than a belief that one is different or special...

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 13.11.2017 at 03:05

False metal fans have the audacity to call themselves metal fans, yet have never heard of Venom, Celtic Frost or Morbid Angel.

Like whatever music you enjoy, just please don't call it something that it isn't!

What do you mean by "have the audacity"? It's not like being into a particular genre makes one better than those, who prefer other types of music. "Metal fan" or "metalhead" is not a title worthy of special recognition.

As to your final statement, can you give me an actual example of "a false metal band" as in a band that doesn't play metal, but is considered metal?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything, it's just that the claims you've made make no sense to me.

What do you mean you don't see anything wrong with being part of the herd? You're fucking kidding me, right? And no, Metal is not appealing to the masses, especially not where I come from.

......I think there's an objective standard that you're failing to observe here, but I'm too tired to go into depth.

An example? I guess.......System Of A Down.

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 14.11.2017 at 05:36

An example? I guess.......System Of A Down.

Anything else?

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 14.11.2017 at 05:36

What do you mean you don't see anything wrong with being part of the herd? You're fucking kidding me, right?

Just because one is part of a group, doesn't mean he or she lacks individuality. Many a great thing is accomplished by loads of people working towards a common goal, each person bringing their own unique set of strengths to the table. And heck, even if 100 000 people all do the same thing for the same reason, like attend a metal concert for example, how the hell is that a bad thing? Being part of a large group doesn't automatically mean being a blind follower. And once again, I've never seen anything more ordinary than the belief that one is special.

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 14.11.2017 at 05:36

And no, Metal is not appealing to the masses, especially not where I come from.

Why does that matter? When a band becomes more popular than they had previously been, that doesn't automatically result in a dip in songwriting quality or heaviness. If you're going to stop listening to a band just because they become appealing to a larger audience, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Written by Drippy.Hippie on 14.11.2017 at 05:36

An example? I guess.......System Of A Down.

System Of A Down, while not a good band imo, are undeniably metal. The fact that their videos have more views on YT than some pop artists can dream of having doesn't change that.