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Your views on religion?



Posts: 125   Visited by: 158 users

Original post

Posted by Zealot644, 24.01.2012 - 06:03
This is not a flame thread (Although, it might be inevitable).

I'm young, so maybe I dont know shit. Either way, here's a stupid kids thoughts ^^

I am interested in opinions on having a religion, not having a religion, detesting religions, etc from metal listeners points of view.

To keep it brief:

Things I like about religions:
-Set of rules or philosophies to live by which we adapted into modern society.

This can give people rules to live by that are generally enjoyed by people.

-Amazing historical works and definitely amazing stories.

Not much to say here besides the obvious. I would like to say they are great works of "fiction" but that would mean I would have to openly deny any gods or the likes. Take in what you would like from that.

-Can help people feel like they have a purpose during and after life.

Live your life and die? Or live your life and then go to a so called dream world? Which sounds more appealing ^^? Not to mention we are afraid of death as it is one of our great 'unknowns'

Things I dislike about religions:
-Fanaticism (Including trying to force religions upon others)

Brainwashing, obsession, whatever. I feel the number of people who take it too seriously is far too high - I consider those in this category to be weak minded.

-Wars (Directly related to fanaticism)

Same as above. Weak mindedness.

-Intolerance (Related to the previous two. Basically, the nonacceptance of any religions but one's own)
-Hypocritical at times
-Ignorance of modern day science.

Many years ago when religion and god was 'law' we were okay with that. Our knowledge of the universe was relatively limited and there were many great wonders to us, very much like today. Back then we decided "I dont understand this. I shall call it god." but with today's knowledge of many different things I dont think it is entirely acceptable to stand behind that same shroud of "Oh, it must be god" when we have scientists who are working very hard at making the universe around us make sense and to unlock its true potential for the human race (As destructive and stupid as we can be).

-People still thinking that without books such as the Bible or the Koran we wouldnt have society today in relation to morales, values, laws, etc

To me, saying that humanity is incapable of doing anything on our own without dusty old books written by nomadic desert tribes thousands of years ago is quite simply insulting.




My viewpoints on the matter?

I will try and keep this as unbiased as possible, but that is prettymuch impossible with an opinion. Anyways, I feel that religion is good and bad in many ways I have already described. My personal view on whether a person should or shouldnt believe in religion comes down to a couple of considerations which I feel are of utmost importance.

-There has been absolutely zero legitimate proof that an all mighty being(s) exists that created the world and universe as we know it.
-Scientists are finding some absolutely amazing secrets within the universe around us. Despite this, we haven't even scratched the surface of everything out there nor have we been able to prove that there wasn't some sort of being that created everything as we know it.
-As we have learned, intricate things REQUIRE intelligent design.
-If we were intelligently designed by something, what made it, and it, and it...
-The concept of suddenly 'existing' or even the concept of 'existence' is still far beyond us.
-We still cannot describe the 'human condition' of conciousness with any clarity.

TL;DR - Personally I think that you are a fool to either:
A)Believe entirely in religion without ever questioning the existence of a celestial being who nobody has ever been able to prove exists.
B)Believe entirely against religion when it has not been disproven by any legitimate means.

IMO a person should be:
C) Undecided, In between, both, etc. You may enjoy aspects of religion and believing in the purpose that it gives you for various things in life, pray to god, etc, but you do not mindlessly follow. And, as a modern and intelligent human, you should question an age old belief that has no completely legitimate proof of its existence but keep in mind that there is no legitimate proof of its non-existence.





Anyways, this has been on my mind a lot recently and I figured here might be an okay spot to discuss it and put out my thoughts on the internet. I'm sure with what I wrote I stepped on a few toes (apologies) and I hope if I did, you come in and debate it. The dawn of the internet is one of mankind's greatest triumphs and should be used to its full potential to advance the human race through the absolute complete sharing of knowledge and opinions. Things that are discussed now could lead to all that much of a better future for your children and mankind.
02.08.2012 - 00:57
Vombatus
Potorro
Hmmmm in fact, Turkey is a secular country since the earlies 20'. Though it is true that 98% of the population is muslim, the political party in power is islamist and, I dare say, not all religions are treated equally...
I think Turkey is a peculiar case, not being the greatest representative of all the debates around islam/religion in western europe as the country itself has alot of controversies regarding this issue, somewhere in between both extremes.

But anyway, totally agree that a simple headscarf itself shouldn't be a problem as it is used also outside religious purpose... And the initial idea behind it for islam wasn't even of religious nature, so big deal. Other variants are another problem as they bring up other concerns...
Debates about islam in europe are really frustating around here, it's either hippy-embracing-multiculturalism or exactly the opposite. There seems to be no mid point, logical considering they don't even give all religions the same status and political correctness in order not to offend the "others" beliefs is priority.
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02.08.2012 - 02:00
Torelli
Written by Vombatus on 02.08.2012 at 00:57

Hmmmm in fact, Turkey is a secular country since the earlies 20'. Though it is true that 98% of the population is muslim, the political party in power is islamist and, I dare say, not all religions are treated equally...
I think Turkey is a peculiar case, not being the greatest representative of all the debates around islam/religion in western europe as the country itself has alot of controversies regarding this issue, somewhere in between both extremes.

But anyway, totally agree that a simple headscarf itself shouldn't be a problem as it is used also outside religious purpose... And the initial idea behind it for islam wasn't even of religious nature, so big deal. Other variants are another problem as they bring up other concerns...
Debates about islam in europe are really frustating around here, it's either hippy-embracing-multiculturalism or exactly the opposite. There seems to be no mid point, logical considering they don't even give all religions the same status and political correctness in order not to offend the "others" beliefs is priority.


I know. Atatürk wasnt particulary found of religion. Nevertheless, Turkey offically has islam as their state religion, despite being a secular state. Just as Sweden has christianity as their state religion while also being a secular country. We will see how long Turkey will stay secular though ( if it has ever been secular). The current ruling party, AKP, is allready in motion of building two huge mosques in istanbul and also had a suggestion to turn Haga Sophia into a real mosque. also, some creepy laws seems have also been on the suggestion table. like banning birth by C-section and lowering the abortion weeks so it will be illigal to make abortion after 4 weeks have past (in practice no abortions are allowed since women usually dont detect pregnancy during the first 4 weeks). on a side note, the pornografic industry is also faising new morals since it now is only allowed to show erotic scenery that is "reproductive". Im afraid this is only the beginning of bigger changes to a more fundmentalist Turkey... or another military coup will take place once again. On the other hand, this can be signs of keeping the national identity intact rather then singns of religious fiundamnetalism, since Turkey needs more children in the future in order to keep the countrey running. oh well, im going off-topic.

About debates about islam and Europe... i agree, it is really frustrating. But also a really complex one, so finding a middle way is rather tricky i think. Most of the time, people are arguing about culture instead of Islam. we fail to notice that there are many faces of islam. And there we have what you call the hippies vs the opposite. Either Islam is a reigion of peace and its just racism to call it otherwise, or is a hellish religion that should be bannished from europe ( and the people who are associated with it). The truth is that their are both dangeorus "islamic" groups and islamic groups that are non-violent. then we have the in-betweens, which are espcially tricky.
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10.05.2013 - 09:26
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Religion is shit, nuff said.
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11.05.2013 - 01:08
Lit.
Account deleted
Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.

You're not cool.
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11.05.2013 - 01:52
ANGEL REAPER
Im not interested in religion...however i do built my own principle of life...the semi-philosophical system of "guidelines" which i use to organize my life for....
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
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11.05.2013 - 10:35
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Written by Guest on 11.05.2013 at 01:08

Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.

You're not cool.


Every argument against religion has already been made, there is nothing more to add
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11.05.2013 - 17:24
ChadwickAndo
Account deleted
Written by Guest on 11.05.2013 at 10:35

Written by Guest on 11.05.2013 at 01:08

Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.

You're not cool.


Every argument against religion has already been made, there is nothing more to add

It has? There's lots to argue hence its existence. Look at how many people still believe...there's still stuff to talk about. It's just a circle jerk for us who don't care is all.
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12.05.2013 - 15:01
Bulletdodger
Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.


Age:15
nuff said
----
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können.
David Hilbert
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12.05.2013 - 20:10
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Written by Bulletdodger on 12.05.2013 at 15:01

Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.


Age:15
nuff said

Serbian, enough said.
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12.05.2013 - 20:41
ANGEL REAPER
Written by Guest on 12.05.2013 at 20:10

Written by Bulletdodger on 12.05.2013 at 15:01

Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.


Age:15
nuff said

Serbian, enough said.

what the fuck his ethnicity have with valid argument that you are 15?
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
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12.05.2013 - 21:14
Sophist
Age isn't a valid argument either, not all 15 year olds are twats who shit talk for no reason.
But this twat is.
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12.05.2013 - 22:59
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Written by Sophist on 12.05.2013 at 21:14

Age isn't a valid argument either, not all 15 year olds are twats who shit talk for no reason.
But this twat is.

How was I being a twat? Please do enlighten me.
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12.05.2013 - 23:03
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Serbian, enough said.

what the fuck his ethnicity have with valid argument that you are 15?

What does my age has to do with anything? I wasn't trying to insult him/ her, I was simply showing how using some arbitrary information about a person to diminish their argument is a silly thing to do.
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12.05.2013 - 23:06
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Quote:
Quote:
Every argument against religion has already been made, there is nothing more to add

It has? There's lots to argue hence its existence. Look at how many people still believe...there's still stuff to talk about. It's just a circle jerk for us who don't care is all.

People believe not because of reason, but because of emotions such as fear.
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13.05.2013 - 01:04
Bulletdodger
Written by Guest on 12.05.2013 at 20:10

Written by Bulletdodger on 12.05.2013 at 15:01

Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.


Age:15
nuff said

Serbian, enough said.


Nahh bro, I'm Bulgarian ( if it matters )
----
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können.
David Hilbert
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13.05.2013 - 02:27
Sophist
Written by Guest on 12.05.2013 at 22:59

Written by Sophist on 12.05.2013 at 21:14

Age isn't a valid argument either, not all 15 year olds are twats who shit talk for no reason.
But this twat is.

How was I being a twat? Please do enlighten me.


Written by Guest on 10.05.2013 at 09:26

Religion is shit, nuff said.

So far from my experience twats and/or edgy kids spout nonsense like that, and I admit I was a twat like that around the same age as you, maybe a year younger.
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13.05.2013 - 08:44
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Can we all just make up? I'll bring the cookies! And btw I have got nothing against eastern Europeans, I hope no one has taken any offense.
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13.05.2013 - 10:14
Bulletdodger
Written by Guest on 13.05.2013 at 08:44

Can we all just make up? I'll bring the cookies! And btw I have got nothing against eastern Europeans, I hope no one has taken any offense.

Sure thing, screw cookies , get beer.

And there is a lesson in all of this, refrain from calling stuff bullshit without a proper explanation
----
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können.
David Hilbert
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13.05.2013 - 13:09
ANGEL REAPER
What Bulletdodger said...
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
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13.05.2013 - 20:10
Sophist
Written by Bulletdodger on 13.05.2013 at 10:14

Written by Guest on 13.05.2013 at 08:44

Can we all just make up? I'll bring the cookies! And btw I have got nothing against eastern Europeans, I hope no one has taken any offense.

Sure thing, screw cookies , get beer.

And there is a lesson in all of this, refrain from calling stuff bullshit without a proper explanation

Seconded.
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14.05.2013 - 00:15
Jimbul2
Account deleted
Agreed then and again I should have explained myself more, I am truly sorry.
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15.05.2013 - 20:04
Aseliot
Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03

-There has been absolutely zero legitimate proof that an all mighty being(s) exists that created the world and universe as we know it.


And there is also no proof that there is none, that is definately an argument every religious person will use against you.

Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
-Scientists are finding some absolutely amazing secrets within the universe around us. Despite this, we haven't even scratched the surface of everything out there nor have we been able to prove that there wasn't some sort of being that created everything as we know it.


See, you already start stating facts here. Problem in science is obviously that you cannot state any facts if you do not have something to back it up. Simply put we have no idea if we know alot about the universe or not. You offcourse could kind of guess we know little as we havent seen a lot of it in person but scientists can predict some really complicated things sometimes.

Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
-As we have learned, intricate things REQUIRE intelligent design.


Wait what, where have i learned this? Human designs are square and artificial. Natural designs are messy, dirty and clumsy. Some animals have parts they don't even really need, as do we. Evolution.

Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
-If we were intelligently designed by something, what made it, and it, and it...


I am a pantheist, at least that is what comes closest to my belief.

Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
-The concept of suddenly 'existing' or even the concept of 'existence' is still far beyond us.


Yeah okay I can agree on that but you are being rather vague with existence here, but then again existence itself is vague.

Written by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
-We still cannot describe the 'human condition' of conciousness with any clarity.


Well your brain is just a piece of meat with energy going through it, the moment you die it is just a piece of meat. If you were to be braindead and would be revived even a second after all your brains functionality would be gone regardless. I don't know what you think a conciousness is but we are just single pieces in a greater thing, at least in a sense...

Excuse the typos i dont have a backspace =D
----
Anál nathrach,
orth' bháis's bethad,
do chél dénmha
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23.05.2013 - 13:51
Candlemass
Defaeco
Not wanted.
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30.05.2013 - 06:59
Lady GaGa
Account deleted
Jesus is my Lord and Savior
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31.05.2013 - 10:38
no one
Account deleted
I was reading about Christianity in Norway and Sweden today and can understand why there would be a hate towards religion up those ways
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05.06.2013 - 18:53
Da?bog
I've never given it much thought, but i consider nowdays major religions manipulative, and also as tools to control people for personal sake...as for the chistianity, religious person should abandon material things from this earth in order to become closer to god (i heard that somewere), but our townchurch taxes are just too damn high, and our priest drive extremely expensive cars...wahts that all about???
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BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it or who has said it, unless it agrees whit your own reason and your own common sense...
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07.06.2013 - 10:15
alisha15
Religion is a set of different doctrine that people believe. This is merely my view regarding that word.
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08.06.2013 - 15:27
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by alisha15 on 07.06.2013 at 10:15

Religion is a set of different doctrine that people believe. This is merely my view regarding that word.


doctrines was made to ordinary ppl wont gossip and be slaves to ruler class
christianity, islam , maybe juadiasm but in modern days we are brake the chains ,
Why vaticane archives is close, its hard to get in like in Russian archives about WWII and after WWII topic?
Both are hidng the truth
----
I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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11.06.2013 - 10:55
This is my views on religion (i did not write this - im aware it has the authors name at the top but hey, some people are just obtuse, right?)

God: What does the word god mean to you? - by A.C. Grayling

What religious people mean by 'god' means nothing to me beyond an incoherent cluster of concepts from which religious apologists choose the most convenient subset, different subsets for different apologists and different purposes.

But the word brings to mind the man-made phenomenon of religions, whose net effect on humanity now as throughout history has been, by a considerable margin, negative. It would be so just because of the falsity of belief; and the consequent distortions of behaviour premised on the idea that there exist supernatural agencies who made this very imperfect world, and who have an interest in us that extends to our sex lives and what we should and should not eat on certain days, or wear, and so on.

But it is worse than false: it is far too often oppressive and distorting as regards human nature, and divisive as regards human communities.

It is a frequent source of conflict and cruelty. Crimes have been committed in its name that could not have been committed for any other reason: murder of those who 'blaspheme' or are 'heretics' (that is, disagree with those currently in charge), who 'profane' objects and texts regarded as 'sacred' (at the time of writing a number of Christian Pakistanis have just been murdered for allegedly mistreating a copy of the Koran) - and so distressingly on.

And more often than not religion has stood in the way of efforts at human liberation and progress, not least scientific progress: examples are legion.

Apologists for religion point to the Sistine Chapel and Bach's Mass in B minor as some sort of justification for it. I answer: first, the Church had the money to commission these things, and artists have stomachs like other men; second, lots of wonderful art is about naked women and bowls of fruit, and requires no belief in deities to prompt its production; and third, the existence of religious art does not excuse burning people at the stake for disagreeing with one or another doctrine or piety.

Apologists point to charitable works as some sort of justification for religion also. I answer: non-believers perform such works, too, out of simple fellow feeling, not requiring the idea of pleasing a deity or getting into heaven to prompt them to do it.

Apologists point to Stalinism and Nazism as murderous ideologies, as if their existence made Torquemada and the Taliban somehow acceptable. I answer: all monolithic ideologies, claiming to possess the One Great Truth and demanding that everyone submit to it on pain of penalty, with their prophets and pieties and shibboleths and sacred cows, come to the same thing when allowed to go to their all-too-natural-extremes - which is precisely the objection to religion. This does not stop anyone having the same objection to Stalinism and Nazism, which I very much do.

The basic doctrines of the major religions have their roots in the superstitions and fancies of illiterate peasants living several thousand years ago. It is astonishing that these superstitions, in the partial guise of sophistical successor versions, retain any credibility. The reason they do is proselytisation of the very young, the institutionalisation of religious sects, and certain psychological factors.

I would wish people to live without superstition, to govern their lives with reason, and to conduct their relationships on reflective principals about what we owe one another as fellow voyagers through the human predicament - with kindness and generosity wherever possible, and justice always. None of this requires religion or the empty name of 'god'. Indeed, once this detritus of our ignorant past has been cleared away, we might see more clearly the nature of the good, and pursue it alright at last.
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28.07.2013 - 05:46
DyingWorld
I don't have anything against (non-fanatical/organized) religion per say but I do have a problem when a religion has a certain amount of influence over a society. Especially when it's used to justify oppressive laws and bullshit wars. As well as when it's being shoved down people's throats. That said, I have a growing interest in the occult but I approach everything with a critical mind. There are certain religions that I do read about, mostly for the philosophical aspect but I don't believe in any actual gods.
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