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The original post

Posted by on 02.11.2006 at 05:18
Some people just don't understand. You know, they can tell me about my "punk ass bitch gothic t shirts", they can tell me everything I listen to sounds the same, they can say just about anything in the book and I'll gladly set them straight if they allow me the time to explain to them. But nothing pisses me off more than when people tell me that it's just a phase or that I listen to metal music because I'm angry. I live in a part of the city where I'm the only metal head I really know so maybe this is new to you guys but I get this erroneous comment all the time. So just to get the conversation stirring, which people just go through a metal phase and which people (like myself) plan on devoting their whole lives to metal?



Page 13 of 13

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38821

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  08.08.2016 at 04:58
Written by M C Vice on 08.08.2016 at 04:22

Written by no one on 07.08.2016 at 10:55

Written by M C Vice on 07.08.2016 at 10:09

Written by Overrwatcher on 28.07.2016 at 13:59

I just couldn't get into metal since all I knew really were the 80's that I didn't like. I still don't like the 80's.

Even Mercyful Fate? (Or, outside of metal, Billy Idol?)

oh not billy idol!!

Oh yes Billy Idol.


Oh no certainly not Billy Idol.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 2686

Age: 30
From: Australia

  08.08.2016 at 13:50
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.08.2016 at 04:58

Written by M C Vice on 08.08.2016 at 04:22

Written by no one on 07.08.2016 at 10:55

oh not billy idol!!

Oh yes Billy Idol.

Oh no certainly not Billy Idol.

Aww, no one wants to shout more more more.
----
Mum - 21/10/1955 - 19/6/2015. R.I.P.

"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
"Thinking quickly, Dave constructs a homemade megaphone using only some string, a squirrel and a megaphone."
Go the Sharks!
Overrwatcher

Posts: 241

Age: 17
From: USA
  08.08.2016 at 17:21
Written by M C Vice on 07.08.2016 at 10:09

Written by Overrwatcher on 28.07.2016 at 13:59

I just couldn't get into metal since all I knew really were the 80's that I didn't like. I still don't like the 80's.

Even Mercyful Fate? (Or, outside of metal, Billy Idol?)


Even Mercyful Fate. I can see the appeal of King Diamond's music, but in general I just don't like the 80's due to the production, guitar tone, vocal styles, pretty much everything. The 80's were a massive anomaly in general, let alone metal. It's not bad. I can see why Master of Puppets, Powerslave, Melissa, or other distinctly 80's albums are so acclaimed, and I don't disagree, it's just the music is not for me.

Billy Idol is a double negative that does not make a positive: 80's, and non-metal. Of course I have an irrational hatred for his music because of how ridiculously overplayed "White Wedding" is here, but I find his music incredibly dull in every single way. Funnily enough, the only 80's artist I actually enjoy is Madonna, but that's probably because I grew up with her music.
----
Overr's List Of Worthwhile Deathcore Albums

Written by on 12.06.2016 at 19:43

Overwatcher, MS Xena, crumbled him in no time. MS needs you to kill the boredom in here.
3rdWorld
The Psilosopher

Posts: 1455

Age: 24
From: India

  08.08.2016 at 22:51
Written by Overrwatcher on 08.08.2016 at 17:21

Even Mercyful Fate. I can see the appeal of King Diamond's music, but in general I just don't like the 80's due to the production, guitar tone, vocal styles, pretty much everything. The 80's were a massive anomaly in general, let alone metal. It's not bad. I can see why Master of Puppets, Powerslave, Melissa, or other distinctly 80's albums are so acclaimed, and I don't disagree, it's just the music is not for me.

Do you just hate bad/raw production in general or just of the metal genre from the 80's? So does this mean that you really don't enjoy the recent osdm revival and revivalist thrash bands? (Ok, Recent Revivalist thrash may not be really that great, but its still lightyears better than how it was in the 90's). Those traits that you noted puts you off from 80's records are exactly the usp of music from that period. To a degree I even agree with you, I basically favor outsider music more so If I had an upbringing in a background same as you I will definitely be put off by them. But I do enjoy them when I feel like I want a taste of that. But the underground and emerging styles were really good at that time. I would say, give yourself sometime before trying that again. I absolutely hated raw production of the debut records of Suffocation, Death & Godflesh initially, it took nearly 2 to 3 years of metal listening to get their appeal and I still can't explain how I got to liking it. Maybe thats how long it took for me to overlook the glamorous aspects and focus on enjoying only the trve music, which alone matters. Yeah it sounds silly but thats how it is, its quite an acquired liking.

Take the early EP's of Big Black or the debut of Swans or bands from the no wave scene for eg., they are some of the most abrasive rock music I've ever heard and they were incredibly influential for the development of the early industrial rock scene. But they may be too much for you to start with, you could start with early records of Celtic Frost, Autopsy, Terrorizer, Amebix, Bolt Thrower etc. Don't count 80's music out just by the sound of the mainstream scene.
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 2686

Age: 30
From: Australia

  09.08.2016 at 12:56
Written by 3rdWorld on 08.08.2016 at 22:51

Written by Overrwatcher on 08.08.2016 at 17:21

Even Mercyful Fate. I can see the appeal of King Diamond's music, but in general I just don't like the 80's due to the production, guitar tone, vocal styles, pretty much everything. The 80's were a massive anomaly in general, let alone metal. It's not bad. I can see why Master of Puppets, Powerslave, Melissa, or other distinctly 80's albums are so acclaimed, and I don't disagree, it's just the music is not for me.

Do you just hate bad/raw production in general or just of the metal genre from the 80's?

I wouldn't call Mercyful Fate's production bad or raw. If anything, the 80s had plenty of (over)polished productions, which I assume she means.
----
Mum - 21/10/1955 - 19/6/2015. R.I.P.

"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
"Thinking quickly, Dave constructs a homemade megaphone using only some string, a squirrel and a megaphone."
Go the Sharks!
Overrwatcher

Posts: 241

Age: 17
From: USA
  09.08.2016 at 15:38
Written by 3rdWorld on 08.08.2016 at 22:51

Written by Overrwatcher on 08.08.2016 at 17:21

Even Mercyful Fate. I can see the appeal of King Diamond's music, but in general I just don't like the 80's due to the production, guitar tone, vocal styles, pretty much everything. The 80's were a massive anomaly in general, let alone metal. It's not bad. I can see why Master of Puppets, Powerslave, Melissa, or other distinctly 80's albums are so acclaimed, and I don't disagree, it's just the music is not for me.

Do you just hate bad/raw production in general or just of the metal genre from the 80's? So does this mean that you really don't enjoy the recent osdm revival and revivalist thrash bands? (Ok, Recent Revivalist thrash may not be really that great, but its still lightyears better than how it was in the 90's). Those traits that you noted puts you off from 80's records are exactly the usp of music from that period. To a degree I even agree with you, I basically favor outsider music more so If I had an upbringing in a background same as you I will definitely be put off by them. But I do enjoy them when I feel like I want a taste of that. But the underground and emerging styles were really good at that time. I would say, give yourself sometime before trying that again. I absolutely hated raw production of the debut records of Suffocation, Death & Godflesh initially, it took nearly 2 to 3 years of metal listening to get their appeal and I still can't explain how I got to liking it. Maybe thats how long it took for me to overlook the glamorous aspects and focus on enjoying only the trve music, which alone matters. Yeah it sounds silly but thats how it is, its quite an acquired liking.

Take the early EP's of Big Black or the debut of Swans or bands from the no wave scene for eg., they are some of the most abrasive rock music I've ever heard and they were incredibly influential for the development of the early industrial rock scene. But they may be too much for you to start with, you could start with early records of Celtic Frost, Autopsy, Terrorizer, Amebix, Bolt Thrower etc. Don't count 80's music out just by the sound of the mainstream scene.


I'm a big production snob in general, being spoiled by an electronic background where pretty much all of the work is sound engineering. Production tools and techniques have evolved as time has gone on, which makes it seem so astounding going from Black Sabbath to Slipknot in terms of clarity and weight. Both are insanely massive names in metal, but the linked songs are 46 years apart, and it really really shows. No matter what you think of Slipknot, "The Devil In I" is a fantastic song production-wise. Every sound is super crisp and meaty without being overwhelming, and every instrument can be heard in the mix, even Clown's unconventional choices for instruments. It's a really dark, haunting, and intense song that avoids being overwhelming unless it wants to, and remains accessible enough to be a massive radio hit. The only time I can really like raw production is when it's really, really fitting. Sonic Syndicate's debut had poor production but in the context of the sound they were going for, it works great. It comes off as really gritty and industrial lo-fi melodeath. But I don't like raw BM albums, even if it's fitting, because that's too raw for me. I can't make out a single thing that's happening in the song and it sounds like a giant jumble of noise.

And it's not just a strict "modern bands always have good production" thing. Mainstream modern bands can have awful production too. Chelsea Grin, who previously was passable in my books (Desolation of Eden had a meaty sound and that was good enough), suddenly released this miserable excuse of production in an attempt to sound brutal like their early days. Seriously, who produced this garbage?

But the 80's is more than just production. The 80's is an entire sound. 80's pop had extremely distinct synths that just screamed 80's, and 80's metal had the guitar tone. 80's was a fun and happy time, just a little too fun for my tastes. Even the darker music, I found hard to take serious (sorry Slayer and King Diamond). What I may hate about the 80's, other people love. It's a musical anomaly, but an anomaly doesn't have to be a bad thing. What's odd is that it doesn't have to do with songwriting. I absolutely love Machine Head's cover of "Hallowed Be Thy Name" but don't care much for the original, even though both are extremely similar. It's just that the cover stays true to the 80's spirit while having modern tricks, making it much more listenable for a young production snob like me whose first bands were In Flames and Arch Enemy, not Metallica and Iron Maiden. That shows that my problem with 80's songs is entirely due to the actual sound, not the songwriting itself. I love the 90's more for the sound than the songwriting. "Production" was finally becoming a vocabulary word for metal bands, the music got a whole lot darker and slower, vocals got less cheesy, and the genre as a whole started splintering into the different subgenres. Sure, it could be a bit stupid, repetitive, or leading straight to nu-metal, but it's a comfort zone for me.

I find the OSDM revival okay, it's more listenable than the actual OSDM due to better production but I still don't care much about it. I remember hearing Asphyx's "Deathhammer" and enjoyed it quite a bit, solid 8/10 in my books. Traditional thrash is a genre that I've never been too fond of, so I feel the same way to revival thrash as well. What's interesting is when you mentioned Filth. Filth does not suffer from the same problems that the other 80's albums do. It's really tight and meaty in its production, which is amazing considering the entire style wouldn't really take off for at least another seven years. It was way ahead of its time and wouldn't sound out-of-place in the 90's. Anyway, to wrap it up, I'm still relatively new to metal, so I haven't had very much time to actually let everything sink in. But no matter how hard I try, I simply can't break past the pre-1990 mark. I find myself thinking "I'm bored, I'd rather put on (insert generic over-polished metal band here) instead." I enjoy Sanctuary's Into The Mirror Black (which still has 80's sound) and Death's Leprosy, but that's as far as it goes. Who knows, maybe the music will end up clicking with me eventually, but as of right now I'm sticking with my 90's and beyond. It's shamefully limiting, but it's not the end of the world. It's better if this discussion continues on another thread to avoid derailing the topic entirely though.

Oh, and thanks for the recommendations. I'll be sure to check them out. I've always been meaning to listen to Bolt Thrower, that's for sure.
----
Overr's List Of Worthwhile Deathcore Albums

Written by on 12.06.2016 at 19:43

Overwatcher, MS Xena, crumbled him in no time. MS needs you to kill the boredom in here.
3rdWorld
The Psilosopher

Posts: 1455

Age: 24
From: India

  09.08.2016 at 18:04
Written by M C Vice on 09.08.2016 at 12:56

Written by 3rdWorld on 08.08.2016 at 22:51

Do you just hate bad/raw production in general or just of the metal genre from the 80's?

I wouldn't call Mercyful Fate's production bad or raw. If anything, the 80s had plenty of (over)polished productions, which I assume she means.

I am not much aware of MF but I've heard some songs of King Diamond a longtime ago. Yes, they don't really have a raw or bad production but have a cheesy 80's evil feel or whatever that puts her off. But when I read her posts I got a feeling that she was mainly emphasizing as having a problem with the production aspect more than anything which seems more apparent now with her latest post.
Paw!!

Posts: 723

Age: 20
From: Indonesia

  09.08.2016 at 20:42
Oh no dont talk bad side about Mercyful Fate or King Diamond please.

Heavy Metal really shine in 80's.

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