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Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3544

Age: 24
From: India

  25.05.2012 at 10:47
Okay, so this Smokin' Johnny (apparently the same guy who's responsible for the Danzig rumours) has created an online petition by asking its fans to help make a "Big 4 of Doom Metal" tour featuring Saint Vitus, Trouble, Pentagram and Candlemass happen. On why "The Big 4 of Doom Metal" tour should happen, the creator explains:

Since a Big 4 of thrash metal exists, how about a Big 4 of doom metal? Saint Vitus, Trouble, Pentagram and Candlemass all helped shape that genre and a Big 4 lineup featuring all of those bands would be one hell of a tour. They all excelled and made doom metal popular. Unlike the other three bands, Candlemass is from Sweden, but their music has become an important American phenomenon in over the last few decades, and yes, this is one reason why they're in the lineup.

Over a two year period, from 1984 to 1986, all four of the Big 4 bands released defining debut albums; Saint Vitus released their eponymous album, Trouble released Psalm 9, Pentagram released Relentless and Candlemass released Epicus Doomicus Metallicus. Not only did all of those albums give the scene a united front and further the awareness of doom metal as a genre, but they would influence and inspire many well-known later musicians.

Another thing in common about Saint Vitus, Trouble, Pentagram and Candlemass is that they all cite Black Sabbath as an influence. Candlemass recorded a track called "Black Sabbath Medley" on their 1988 album "Ancient Dreams", which is composed of both parts and lyrics to many of their songs, while Saint Vitus named themselves after a song from Black Sabbath's 1972 album Vol. 4 called "St. Vitus' Dance".

Seeing Saint Vitus, Trouble, Pentagram and Candlemass tour together would be such an honor. We, as fans, would love to thank all of them for their hard work and all the classics they've been putting out since the 1980s


Now, are you really want to support this tour??

If yes, go here to sign the petition.

The Big 4 of Doom Metal" also has a Facebook page, go here to "like" it.

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Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37761

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  25.05.2012 at 11:50
You are 1th what saiys big 4 in doom
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Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36432

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  25.05.2012 at 12:20
Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Cill O' Connor

Posts: 373

Age: 20
From: Ireland

  25.05.2012 at 12:29
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.


What did it actually mean? I always just assumed that, like he says, they were the 4 most popular thrash bands of the 80s.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36432

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  25.05.2012 at 12:37
Written by Cill O' Connor on 25.05.2012 at 12:29

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.


What did it actually mean? I always just assumed that, like he says, they were the 4 most popular thrash bands of the 80s.



POpular as in mbiggest selling bands both attendance and albumwise at the height of the thrash boom. If we take those parameters into account then out of the 4 mentioned ONLY Candlemass will make the cut.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Cill O' Connor

Posts: 373

Age: 20
From: Ireland

  25.05.2012 at 12:46
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:37


POpular as in mbiggest selling bands both attendance and albumwise at the height of the thrash boom. If we take those parameters into account then out of the 4 mentioned ONLY Candlemass will make the cut.


Yeah that's what I meant by popular too...then again I have no idea who the other three biggest selling doom bands would be (other than Sabbath, if you're one of the people that would classify them as doom, or their old stuff anyway).
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36432

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  25.05.2012 at 12:49
Written by Cill O' Connor on 25.05.2012 at 12:46

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:37


POpular as in mbiggest selling bands both attendance and albumwise at the height of the thrash boom. If we take those parameters into account then out of the 4 mentioned ONLY Candlemass will make the cut.


Yeah that's what I meant by popular too...then again I have no idea who the other three biggest selling doom bands would be (other than Sabbath, if you're one of the people that would classify them as doom, or their old stuff anyway).


even discounting Sabbath, My Dying Bride, Anathema, Paradise lost, Katatonia, hell even nowadays Swallow The Sun have sold more than Trouble, Vitus, Pentagram
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18403
From: Canada

  25.05.2012 at 13:38
Like Marcel said, the big four marketing tactic was targeting sales, not influence or talent or whatever. I don't know much about doom sales to be honest, but I feel like only Candlemass would be up there out of the four listed.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Mr. Blonde

Posts: 66

Age: 33
From: USA

  26.05.2012 at 01:17
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.


Cheesy marketing agenda aside, would you still want to see this show if it were to happen? Just curious as you seem to be among the more well versed doom fans around here.

I've personally never had the opportunity to see any of these bands live before and I especially like Candlemass and Trouble. If this Big 4 of Doom actually happened as an American tour I think it would be fun, and I'd want to check it out, lame promotional tactics or not.
@gent_-_orange

Posts: 828

Age: 24
From: UK

  26.05.2012 at 01:57
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.

It seem severy genre needs a big four nowadays, and doom is quite a divrse genre to just grab a big four out of the genre anyway
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Alone he sits, A vanquished Lord upon an oaken throne, presiding o'er this conflict that chills him to the bone, for each tarnished blade that festers is a thorn thrust in his side and his pain alone bears witness to the folly of mankind.
bran

Posts: 157

Age: 27
From: USA

  26.05.2012 at 03:40
Would love to see all 4 play
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top 5 albums of 2012 so far.

1. wintersun- time I
2. woods of ypres- woods V grey skies and electric light
3. agalloch- faustian echoes EP
4. the slow death- II
5. kreator- phantom antichrist
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1655

Age: 28
From: Australia

  26.05.2012 at 06:28
Written by @gent_-_orange on 26.05.2012 at 01:57

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.

It seem severy genre needs a big four nowadays,

I'm eagerly awaiting the naming of the Big 4 of Viking metal.
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GO THE SHARKS!

"I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "How does he know what I'm thinking?" Well I know everything, and so does your internet service provider."
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18403
From: Canada

  26.05.2012 at 06:31
Written by M C Vice on 26.05.2012 at 06:28
I'm eagerly awaiting the naming of the Big 4 of Viking metal.

Bathory, Bathory, Bathory, and Bathory.

Honorable mention: Bathory.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Unhealer
Eclecticist

Posts: 1960

Age: 23
From: Argentina

  26.05.2012 at 06:41
I repeat what I said... uh, on another thread. Why four?
Are we really going to assemble a big 4 of all genres now? Seems to me some bands would be added or left out just to fit that number.
BitterCOld
OldBitterGringo

Posts: 12431

Age: 41
From: Paraguay

  26.05.2012 at 09:08
Written by Troy Killjoy on 25.05.2012 at 13:38

Like Marcel said, the big four marketing tactic was targeting sales, not influence or talent or whatever. I don't know much about doom sales to be honest, but I feel like only Candlemass would be up there out of the four listed.


it wasn't a marketing tactic as the bands were not on the same label. it was an acknowledgement of their importance in a time and place to pushing forth a new form of music. they didn't need marketing... they put out music, people got it.

think of it as "Original Six" - by no means were those the first six hockey clubs, they just helped launch what is now the NHL. those four bands were like the the Red Wings, Maple Laffs, Bruins, and Habs.

and my opinion of a notion of a "big four of doom" is about the same as it is for "new big four of thrash"... THAT is a garbage marketing gimmick.
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get the fuck off my lawn.
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3544

Age: 24
From: India

  26.05.2012 at 10:47
There wasn't any stupidest idea of me to create this thread and letting people know that "this can also happen". Honestly, when I went through, I thought, Meh. It's like another mainstream publicity stuff to be get posted on various Metal websites to get some really good "attention" from Metal fans and trust me it gotta quite a good responses. (Check out FB)

like today Big of 4 Doom..tomorrow Big 4 of Black Metal? Big four of Sludge? Big four of Symphonic Metal? Big four of Deathcore? and blaah! It won't going anywhere. So for me like other have already mentioned...garbage marketing gimmick.
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Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36432

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  26.05.2012 at 12:57
Written by Mr. Blonde on 26.05.2012 at 01:17

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.


Cheesy marketing agenda aside, would you still want to see this show if it were to happen? Just curious as you seem to be among the more well versed doom fans around here.

I've personally never had the opportunity to see any of these bands live before and I especially like Candlemass and Trouble. If this Big 4 of Doom actually happened as an American tour I think it would be fun, and I'd want to check it out, lame promotional tactics or not.


I have already seen all four bands live (and all of them in multiple different line-ups as well and both Vitus, Trouble and Candlemass when they were at their prime artistically) and current Trouble is not something you want to see live, trust me
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Mr. Blonde

Posts: 66

Age: 33
From: USA

  28.05.2012 at 10:46
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.05.2012 at 12:57

Written by Mr. Blonde on 26.05.2012 at 01:17

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2012 at 12:20

Big 4 of doom? Pathetic idea. The originator of that term clearly forgot what the big 4 of thrash actually meant.


Cheesy marketing agenda aside, would you still want to see this show if it were to happen? Just curious as you seem to be among the more well versed doom fans around here.

I've personally never had the opportunity to see any of these bands live before and I especially like Candlemass and Trouble. If this Big 4 of Doom actually happened as an American tour I think it would be fun, and I'd want to check it out, lame promotional tactics or not.


I have already seen all four bands live (and all of them in multiple different line-ups as well and both Vitus, Trouble and Candlemass when they were at their prime artistically) and current Trouble is not something you want to see live, trust me


Cool, I gotcha. Well you're fortunate to have seen those groups in their prime. I know a number of bands nosedive. I'll take your word on Trouble, still love their old albums though. I wonder what current Pentagram is like live? I know that Bobby Liebling has been through some rough shit. I'd still want to see something like this big 4 show though just for the novelty at least. I can understand why more veteran fans of the genre may be turned off at the idea of it though.
Valentin B
Iconoclast

Posts: 10009

Age: 24
From: Belgium

  28.05.2012 at 12:17
Big four this, big four that, when are we gonna have the big four of porngrind?
----
Sing me a song, you're a singer
Do me a wrong, you're a bringer of evil.
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  28.05.2012 at 15:08
Whilst seeing all 4 of those bands on one bill would be amazing, it's really not a proper "big 4 of doom" for reasons Marcel has already stated...

Written by Valentin B on 28.05.2012 at 12:17

Big four this, big four that, when are we gonna have the big four of porngrind?


Is there enough good bands in that genre to make a big 4?
R'Vannith
Spiralmind

Posts: 2727

Age: 22
From: Australia

  28.05.2012 at 16:02
One question, why 4?
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18403
From: Canada

  28.05.2012 at 16:26
Written by R'Vannith on 28.05.2012 at 16:02
One question, why 4?

Ask the people who came up with the term back in the day for Metallica/Megadeth/Slayer/Anthrax.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18403
From: Canada

  28.05.2012 at 16:33
Written by Angelic Storm on 28.05.2012 at 15:08
Is there enough good bands in that genre to make a big 4?

Yes, although the term revolves around sales as opposed to quality... so in that case, no.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
R'Vannith
Spiralmind

Posts: 2727

Age: 22
From: Australia

  28.05.2012 at 16:35
Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.05.2012 at 16:26

Written by R'Vannith on 28.05.2012 at 16:02
One question, why 4?

Ask the people who came up with the term back in the day for Metallica/Megadeth/Slayer/Anthrax.

That would seem like a logical course to take, but why use the same number if it is implied that the concept isn't purely a gimmick? The tendency to stick to one number, 4, suggests that to apply it within the doom genre is taking something well established from another genre and just copy pasting it into a different context.
I guess what I'm trying to say is why would 4 be the number of which each genre has 'big' bands of?
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18403
From: Canada

  28.05.2012 at 16:41
Written by R'Vannith on 28.05.2012 at 16:35
I guess what I'm trying to say is why would 4 be the number of which each genre has 'big' bands of?

I think it's just a way of reflecting what's already been done... so, convenience?
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
R'Vannith
Spiralmind

Posts: 2727

Age: 22
From: Australia

  28.05.2012 at 16:50
Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.05.2012 at 16:41

I think it's just a way of reflecting what's already been done... so, convenience?

Exactly, and that seems to wave the gimmick flag for me, taking it out of one context simply for the sake of ease and putting into another context doesn't seem like it takes much into question about the new genre into which it is used.
That's my long winded way of saying this shits ridiculous, a pure gimmick.
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  28.05.2012 at 16:57
Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.05.2012 at 16:33
Yes, although the term revolves around sales as opposed to quality... so in that case, no.


I am aware of that, I was just speaking in jest.
IronAngel

Posts: 4347

Age: 25
From: Finland

  28.05.2012 at 19:20
This thread is kind of stupid. It's about a proposed tour, and people argue about terminology. Nobody debated whether The Unholy Alliance was really unholy or if alliance was the correct technical term. It's just a promotional name, get over yourselves. >_<

That said, I've seen Vitus. Would love to see Candlemass, but not interested in Pentagram or Trouble. Not that some US tour even concerns me.
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3544

Age: 24
From: India

  28.05.2012 at 19:46
Written by R'Vannith on 28.05.2012 at 16:02

One question, why 4?


Help yourself out.
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Sync
SatanicWarmaster

Posts: 396

Age: 19
From: UK

  28.05.2012 at 20:59
No My Dying Bride? M'okay
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