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Dentura
Shadow King

Posts: 1168

Age: 21
From: USA

  08.09.2012 at 05:04
I thought this might lead to an interesting discussion. There are many of us who put much direct focus on either the music or the lyrics from a particular song or album. In a perfect world, we would of course want both to be of high quality with an equal amount of focus. However what would happen if one of these things was shit, and the other was great? Which would you prefer, spellbinding music with a terrible vocalist singing some of the most atrocious, banal lyrics you could ever write on a bar napkin, or vice-versa, some of the worst, vile music that almost borders on "Lulu" territory, but having an amazing vocalist singing some of the most beautiful and poetic lyrics since Lord Byron? I personally prefer the former myself, but comment below.
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...And so death to the falsity of thy former rulers. Thy kingdom of "heaven" burns in a field of fire, and Dentura is the one true God thou must yield thy hearts and souls to in absolute submission. It is his ultimate decree and will unto thee..
Dinruth

Posts: 232
From: Austria
  08.09.2012 at 09:17
Interesting topic!

to be honest .. although I write poetry myself and am a huge fan of the written word, I tend to care less about lyrics in a song. music definitely has priority .. that's maybe oing to the fact that many metalbands sing in their native language and besides German, English and French I understand nada .. but even in English or even my native language German I don't care so much for the lyrics .. I appreciate good lyrics when I come across them, such as 'Lethe' from Dark Tranquillity which is imo a masterpiece, but usually it takes time until I really absorb the lyrics
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38485

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  08.09.2012 at 10:21
Best is when music fits in lyrics, i remeber in some music docs ac/dc play riffs and try find lyrics who pass best at sound , but its hard,
all poems can be used like lyrics, only fiew lyrics can be used like poetry , I like intsrumental sounds to, so ..... but lyrics is importrant to me
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Jaeryd17‍
Desert Mouse

Posts: 642

Age: 23
From: USA

  08.09.2012 at 11:48
The point of a song is for the music itself to paint emotions while the words paint a picture (it can be the other way around, too, but it doesn't matter--you get the metaphor). If one of them sucks while the other is great, then I might think the band is OK, but nothing more than that.

For instance, Cannibal Corpse can tear shit up. Still, the lyrics just give shit away, make it too plain and blatantly overdone. You're supposed to suggest events, situations, emotions, and images with poetry, not try and come up with the most offensively grotesque stuff you can think of. Mostly I just don't care much for that particular kind of imagery that their music paints, I guess, so I'm pretty biased on that point.

Still, I'm allowed to have my opinion, too, and as I said, they're an example of what I think to be good music with shitty lyrics.
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"It is not your sin—it is your self-satisfaction that crieth unto heaven; your very sparingness in sin crieth unto heaven!

Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which ye should be inoculated?"

Dentura
Shadow King

Posts: 1168

Age: 21
From: USA

  08.09.2012 at 11:56
Written by Jaeryd17‍ on 08.09.2012 at 11:48

The point of a song is for the music itself to paint emotions while the words paint a picture (it can be the other way around, too, but it doesn't matter--you get the metaphor). If one of them sucks while the other is great, then I might think the band is OK, but nothing more than that.

For instance, Cannibal Corpse can tear shit up. Still, the lyrics just give shit away, make it too plain and blatantly overdone. You're supposed to suggest events, situations, emotions, and images with poetry, not try and come up with the most offensively grotesque stuff you can think of. Mostly I just don't care much for that particular kind of imagery that their music paints, I guess, so I'm pretty biased on that point.

Still, I'm allowed to have my opinion, too, and as I said, they're an example of what I think to be good music with shitty lyrics.


Good opinion on that matter.
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...And so death to the falsity of thy former rulers. Thy kingdom of "heaven" burns in a field of fire, and Dentura is the one true God thou must yield thy hearts and souls to in absolute submission. It is his ultimate decree and will unto thee..
theFIST

Posts: 851

Age: 22
From: Austria

  08.09.2012 at 21:36
Great vocalist? terrible vocalist?
the sound of the vocals is part of the music, not lyrics
vocals can sound great and fit the music even when the lyrics are complete garbage

anyways, i care about the sound in music, if i want a good text i can read it
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http://metalstormmusicianscorner.bandcamp.com
Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
Haha, that's like saying "compose your own Metal album and upload it here, instead of writing a review of an album".
Oaken
Hipster

Posts: 1322

Age: 18
From: Syria

  08.09.2012 at 22:29
Like Mr. Doctor once said: Good lyrics can make good music better, but bad lyrics can't make good music bad. However, bad music makes good lyrics bad.
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In that case, man is only air as well.
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  09.09.2012 at 01:35
Written by Oaken on 08.09.2012 at 22:29

Like Mr. Doctor once said: Good lyrics can make good music better, but bad lyrics can't make good music bad. However, bad music makes good lyrics bad.


The awkward moment when you were going to post your opinion and someone else's says your opinion out loud.

But yeah... That's pretty much where I stand these days. I remember that when I listened to one of the cds I bought for the first time I always wanted to do it while reading the lyrics (I still do that) and if the booklet didn't have the lyrics I searched them and listened to the album while reading the lyrics from the computer or some paper I printed.

This last thing is something I changed for lack of interest tbh... If I'm really interested, I will search them after listening to the cd. Sometimes it's even better to just leave the booklet and don't think about the words and just float with the music... Since it describes more than words could ever hope to do.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Oaken
Hipster

Posts: 1322

Age: 18
From: Syria

  09.09.2012 at 02:25
Written by Mr. Doctor on 09.09.2012 at 01:35

But yeah... That's pretty much where I stand these days. I remember that when I listened to one of the cds I bought for the first time I always wanted to do it while reading the lyrics (I still do that) and if the booklet didn't have the lyrics I searched them and listened to the album while reading the lyrics from the computer or some paper I printed.

This last thing is something I changed for lack of interest tbh... If I'm really interested, I will search them after listening to the cd. Sometimes it's even better to just leave the booklet and don't think about the words and just float with the music... Since it describes more than words could ever hope to do.

It's the same for me actually. At first I never listened to music without the lyrics, but now I'm not interested that much. If the music is amazing, I check out the lyrics after listening i.e. The Ruins Of Beverast's music made me read the lyrics, which are so dark and poetic. But sometimes I'm pissed off when there are no lyrics, like Lurker Of Chalice. Dafuq I wonder how dark the lyrics of these songs are.
----
In that case, man is only air as well.
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  09.09.2012 at 02:35
Written by Oaken on 09.09.2012 at 02:25
Lurker Of Chalice. Dafuq I wonder how dark the lyrics of these songs are.


Well, he used many samples and they are quite easy to understand... Haven't read the lyrics but the samples sure paint a perfect idea of the music.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Oaken
Hipster

Posts: 1322

Age: 18
From: Syria

  09.09.2012 at 02:39
Written by Mr. Doctor on 09.09.2012 at 02:35

Written by Oaken on 09.09.2012 at 02:25
Lurker Of Chalice. Dafuq I wonder how dark the lyrics of these songs are.


Well, he used many samples and they are quite easy to understand... Haven't read the lyrics but the samples sure paint a perfect idea of the music.

The samples in "As Spectre As Valkyrie Is" are amazing. But the thing about the lyrics is that they're completely unavailable online. Only "Piercing Where They Might" has lyrics printed.
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In that case, man is only air as well.
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3788

Age: 27
From: USA

  09.09.2012 at 03:00
Written by Guest on 08.09.2012 at 20:31

Books & Poetry Storm.


Want.
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REPUBLICAN CAR!
BestMetalstormer

Posts: 3331

Age: 27
From: Vietnam

  09.09.2012 at 12:07
If only one choice I pick Lyrics... good lyrics can make me remember the songs because of good meaning... if only music is good without good lyrics, I quite dont remember the song names... : )
Cill O' Connor

Posts: 375

Age: 20
From: Ireland

  09.09.2012 at 16:16
Music is most important for me, but it does take away from my enjoyment of music if the lyrics are terrible/childish/cheesy. As an example: I would have held Megadeth's most recent release in much higher esteem had I found the lyrics to be better. Manowar is often a band who I find take away from their integrity as musicians with their sometimes crappy lyrics. This usually doesn't apply to death and black metal though because often the vocals are indecipherable, so unless I look up the lyrics it's unlikely to bother me.
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8147

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  09.09.2012 at 23:43
I have to admit i usually dont even know the exact lyrics of the song - except when i really want to learn them...what matters more for me is the voice of the singer...
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The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Jaeryd17‍
Desert Mouse

Posts: 642

Age: 23
From: USA

  10.09.2012 at 11:50
Written by Mr. Doctor on 09.09.2012 at 01:35

Written by Oaken on 08.09.2012 at 22:29

Like Mr. Doctor once said: Good lyrics can make good music better, but bad lyrics can't make good music bad. However, bad music makes good lyrics bad.
If I'm really interested, I will search them after listening to the cd. Sometimes it's even better to just leave the booklet and don't think about the words and just float with the music... Since it describes more than words could ever hope to do.

While I agree that just experiencing the music itself is something special, there's a reason why people even put words in their songs. Music is poetry, and the lyrics are part of that poetry.

For example, imagine a death metal band, a black metal band, a prog metal band, any kind of metal you can think of, with the lyrics from this song:

Scream for My Ice Cream

I personally like to know the lyrics because the words help paint the picture. Maybe it's just because I like poetry in general, and that may not be other people's thing. Still, just like there is an atmosphere to the music, there is a tone and setting imparted by the words used in a song. If the words didn't matter, then there wouldn't be any lyrics in these songs, now would there?

You're still right. Music can be good without good lyrics, as long as the vocals don't suck hard, too (I consider vocals an important instrument in music if they are used at all). What I'm trying to say is that good lyrics don't just make a good song better, they make a good song fantastic. It's still according to preference, of course, but my preference is to have music with good lyrics.
----
"It is not your sin—it is your self-satisfaction that crieth unto heaven; your very sparingness in sin crieth unto heaven!

Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which ye should be inoculated?"

Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  10.09.2012 at 18:03
Written by Jaeryd17‍ on 10.09.2012 at 11:50
While I agree that just experiencing the music itself is something special, there's a reason why people even put words in their songs. Music is poetry, and the lyrics are part of that poetry.

I don't mix poetry with music, two different kinds of art that just happen to work well together. Simple as that for me.

Quote:
For example, imagine a death metal band, a black metal band, a prog metal band, any kind of metal you can think of, with the lyrics from this song:
Scream for My Ice Cream

Would give them a high-five for giving the finger to stereotypes and don't take themselves seriously like 90% of the bands from those genres... Specially if it happens that the vocals aren't clean and very difficult to understand... In that way the vocals enhace its role of an instrument even more and I can focus on the most important part: music.

Quote:
I personally like to know the lyrics because the words help paint the picture.

I understand and respect that... But I always felt I had enough imagination to not need lyrics in order to paint my own picture of the music. That's why I have no trouble with NS black metal bands... I don't care about the artist's picture of their music. I only care about my own... If my own picture is the same as the musicians then that's pretty cool though...

Quote:
Maybe it's just because I like poetry in general, and that may not be other people's thing.

I dig poetry and litterature as a whole quite a lot... I just have another set of priorities when it comes to music.

Quote:
If the words didn't matter, then there wouldn't be any lyrics in these songs, now would there?

Well, like I said: Different priorities... To me, this argument goes straight to its shithouse the moment I think about bands with imposible-to-decipher vocals, when they are on a language I don't understand (with a couple of exceptions if I'm interested enough to check out the translations, see Rammstein lyrics which I find amazing... But my opinion about the music wouldn't change if they turned out to be awful) or when the vocalist isn't actually singing real words at all and makes up his/her own sounds. I just care about the sound first and then check if the words are any good.... After I do that it can only go better or just plain indifference if the lyrics aren't really special... I mean... Lyrics aren't special for most metal bands anyways specially in the more extreme kinds of metal which are the ones I listen the most. That's why I'm not picky about bad lyrics but will on the other hand strongly appreciate the good ones.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Jaeryd17‍
Desert Mouse

Posts: 642

Age: 23
From: USA

  10.09.2012 at 22:45
Written by Mr. Doctor on 10.09.2012 at 18:03

I just care about the sound first and then check if the words are any good.... After I do that it can only go better or just plain indifference if the lyrics aren't really special... I mean... Lyrics aren't special for most metal bands anyways specially in the more extreme kinds of metal which are the ones I listen the most. That's why I'm not picky about bad lyrics but will on the other hand strongly appreciate the good ones.


That's reasonable, and I completely respect that. Maybe it's just that I've barely started developing a taste for death metal and thus haven't had much of a chance to realize that yet. Still, with bands like Amon Amarth or Opeth where I can understand most of what they're saying throughout all the growling, I think it still helps to know what they're saying, but I think I also get what you are talking about. Maybe it's good to know the lyrics only when you think the lyrics might be worth it, and if they're not that special, that doesn't detract from the song.

For example, I think that Amon Amarth's "Destroyer of the Universe" makes a lot more sense when you read the lyrics, since it's about Surtur coming from Muspelheim on the day Ragnarok to set the world on fire. Still, I thought the song was awesome before I knew the all of the lyrics. I also have listened to songs in other languages (like Drudkh, Alcest, or Rammstein), and not knowing what it said didn't make them any less enjoyable.

So yeah, I guess I can see precisely what you mean now. Lesson learned.
----
"It is not your sin—it is your self-satisfaction that crieth unto heaven; your very sparingness in sin crieth unto heaven!

Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which ye should be inoculated?"

Evil Chip

Posts: 496

Age: 23
From: Chile

  12.09.2012 at 16:53
In music both are important for the meaning of the song IMO. The verse signifies as it does because of the music. It's not the same saying "I love you" in a piano quiet song than in a grind song with pigs screaming out. But obviously the first thing I care about is the music, but lyric can make a song worse or better.
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3788

Age: 27
From: USA

  12.09.2012 at 18:09
Music is mandatory. Lyrics are optional.
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REPUBLICAN CAR!
Carrion Misery

Posts: 409

Age: 29
From: USA

  13.09.2012 at 02:15
I think all variations of better music/better lyrics satisfy different musical cravings. Additionally, it matters if you're a musician, song writer or only a listener . Furthermore, if you take music seriously or just want to "have fun", it also changes perspective.

For me, lyrics matter a lot, but in the end, it all depends on how the vocals execute them. The lyrics could be the best ever, but if the asshole is yapping like a pomeranian, there is a 100% chance I won't be listening to that band more than once on purpose. There's so much gray area though. Most of the bands I like mostly have unoriginal lyrics and stories, and that's okay -- the music still rules. If the music rules, and the lyrics are phenomenal, there's a good chance they will be in my top favorite bands. With that said, the lyrics are the tipping point for whether or not a band is phenomenal (holy shit these guys are sick, and the lyrics are just as good) or disappointing (wow, these guys are amazing musicians, but man do these lyrics blow). Besides, listening to a band, and growing with their music will change your outlook the more you listen to them. You'll notice parts of the story you never realized before making that album even better. I think if lyrics don't matter to you, then it's possible you're missing out on a whole level of experience from the band you adore so much.
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-- Carrion Misery
Jpageforever

Posts: 63

Age: 14
From: USA
  15.03.2013 at 18:16
I pay attention mostly to the music. I don't even know the lyrics to some of my favorite songs haha
Yavanna

Posts: 593

Age: 24
From: Brazil

  21.03.2013 at 22:40
Written by Jpageforever on 15.03.2013 at 18:16

I pay attention mostly to the music. I don't even know the lyrics to some of my favorite songs haha

I think you should pay more attention to the lyrics... I really do
----
Carry me to the shoreline
Bury me in the sand
Walk me across the water
And maybe you'll understand
Swordbearer

Posts: 76

Age: 22
From: The Netherlands

  25.03.2013 at 11:25
In a perfect scenario music and lyrics should complement Music supports the lyrics and tells what words cannot convey and lyrics can elevate a simple song to divinity. Which is why I love doom metal. I however prefer when the music is better than the lyrics. As a musician I think there is nothing worse than having horrible music. Your lyrics can be perfect stories, but your music needs to reflect that quality.
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Druantia | Folk metal
Jpageforever

Posts: 63

Age: 14
From: USA
  25.03.2013 at 18:52
I do, but I'm mostly worried more about the music. It's kind of hard to miss the lyrics completely
moe5512

Posts: 413

Age: 21
From: Finland

  24.04.2013 at 21:47
I really don't care about lyrics and I don't think metal is the right genre for those who lyrics are important. I mean, Bodom was the first heavier metal band I liked and I like them now too but I can't understand a word that Alexi sings except for "shit" "fuck" "bitch", "hate".
Azarath

Posts: 501

Age: 31
From: Finland

  25.04.2013 at 17:44
Lyrics don't matter, until they do.
DaveBarlow

Posts: 23
From: UK
  12.09.2013 at 23:13
If the lyrics suck then i'm less likely to like the song. The same is true with vocals, don't matter how the music is, if the vocals suck, chances are I won't like it.
I seem to be more leient the other way (I can still like a song when the music is rubbish but lyrics are good)
Dunno why, I guessed i've always loved good vocals and meaningfl lyrics.
Mary N.
Evil Butterfly

Posts: 1661


  12.09.2013 at 23:21
The music makes a difference that if lyrics matter or nope
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The Fangirl.
telephonebear

Posts: 96

Age: 18
From: UK

  21.04.2014 at 21:20
Music as thats the thing that hits you first. but lyrics are just as important for future listens as i much prefer a song to be deep and emotional. i think so long as the two compliment each other and the music fits the words and vice versa its good

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