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Godless Visions

Posts: 36
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 03:04
Just finished a debate I had with Steve from the Faster for the Master show on nocontrolradio.com and I'm still fairly confident it's a fraudulent mimicry of metal attempting to destroy us like a trojan horse. In fact, I'm more confident I'm right now than when I was preparing for the debate.

Good Friday approacheth. What do you think? Do you actually LIKE any of it? Shouldn't we be hostile to it and shun it?
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--
Visions From the Darkside
The greatest extreme metal talk show of all time.
http://soundcloud.com/nocontrolradio
www.nocontrolradio.com
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37939

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  29.03.2013 at 03:10
Is step parents a real parents?
Is swedish summer a real summer?
Is silicon boobs a boobs?

Of corse it is metal, because metal is soun, melody, melody and sound what criates instruments
many cases it is filosfy and ideas what metalheads pratice and follow, but mainly metal is music, sound, melody so .... and lyrics is secendary
only how can you tell it is christian from album title, artwork and sng titles
not from melody
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Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
psykometal
Staffpool

Posts: 4611

Age: 29
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 03:24
Exactly as Bad English has said, metal is determined by it's music, not it's lyrics. Some go so far as to believe/claim that lyrics determine the genre for genres like black metal but really all genres are defined by their musical properties. To say that a Christian band is not metal just because they praise God with their metal is just asinine and immature.
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~Zep~
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9564

Age: 25
From: Canada

  29.03.2013 at 11:37
Written by Godless Visions on 29.03.2013 at 03:04

...attempting to destroy us like a trojan horse.

I don't follow you on this one...This just strikes me as silly, and as psyko said, immature.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
Thrashette

Posts: 621

Age: 22
From: Canada

  29.03.2013 at 16:33
Stupid question that everyone else already answered...
I'm not one to discriminate against religious beliefs. If a band plays music I like, I'll listen to them regardless of what their beliefs or lyrical content is. And I would at least respect them for speaking up about their beliefs rather than writing generic "hail satan" lyrics just to conform with the scene.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36553

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  29.03.2013 at 16:48
Indeed a totally stupid question that defies all logic (behind what constitutes music) and belief.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37939

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  29.03.2013 at 17:11
Written by Thrashette on 29.03.2013 at 16:33

Stupid question that everyone else already answered...
I'm not one to discriminate against religious beliefs. If a band plays music I like, I'll listen to them regardless of what their beliefs or lyrical content is. And I would at least respect them for speaking up about their beliefs rather than writing generic "hail satan" lyrics just to conform with the scene.


belifes is in lyrics but you can sing satanistic lyrics , be anto social in pop music, blues, RnB , be atheist, wear black, some say some bues men sold they souls to devil
Varg said BM is like blues what never changing, but lets take blues and they sing sometjing satanistic, or RnB it wont make them metal

in that case Whitesnake is RmB or pop muisc because David sings about love

what is flower metal when lyrics are about flying draggons?

we would say Witcfinder General is hippie love making music because one song says ''come whit me, lets have some mushroom tea, lets have soem lsd''
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3110

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  29.03.2013 at 17:12
Let me put it this way : are you a different human being if you put on a another sweater ? totally stupid question!
Also all this "holier than thou","kill a poser" and "death to false metal" are starting to annoy the hell out of me ... people should listen whatever they like and quit trying to convert each others ...
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts

Posts: 8896

Age: 30
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 18:03
I in in a stoner doom metal band. We are all devote followers of Jesus. All the songs on our first record are hymns, chants and prayers from the ancient canon (1500 years old and older). Does this mean we are not a Metal band?

Godless, have you read my article Jesus Christ and the Headbanger: Understanding A Heavy Metal Christian Worship yet? If not, I'd recommend it as it may give you some more insight into this topic.
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(space for rent)
Vombatus
Title

Posts: 1394
From: Switzerland

  29.03.2013 at 18:30
Looks like everyone pretty much agrees... Close to imposible to counter the music argument behind it so not much to discuss.

If anything, these bands (specially from extreme subgenres) embody even better all this supposed ideal that metal should be transgressive, with no rules and controversial.... just look the reactions at Christian BM, it pisses off both sides
Neroese
Account deleted
  29.03.2013 at 18:43
Well, is christian metal is metal? Technically, yes. It has got everythin' what metal has got - drummer, distorted guitars and typical 4/4 (but christian metal hasn't got any girls that wanted to have sex with you at backstage after heavy live show), but IMO christian metal has lost it's 'metal' soul. Well, singing about god, and his goodness isn't 'metal enough'. Metal music is always associated with sex & drugs & orgies & drinking & brutality & more sex and orgies. Metal music is expression. The best expression ever. Do you ever hear emm pop music that lirycally says about redemption, woe, kill, gore sex or everything that is untypical? Same with soul, r'n'b, etc. Even songs about lost love are better with guitars than 'Praise the god! Make next crusade! God is fucking god!'. It's even sound unserious.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37939

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  29.03.2013 at 18:51
You know some religuse ppl say using cobndom is sin, but same time they sau using condom is not a cheeting your wife, same like mafia said using gin whit silencer its not a mureder

seems her are going to this way here to
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3110

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  29.03.2013 at 18:53
Written by Vombatus on 29.03.2013 at 18:30

Looks like everyone pretty much agrees... Close to imposible to counter the music argument behind it so not much to discuss.

If anything, these bands (specially from extreme subgenres) embody even better all this supposed ideal that metal should be transgressive, with no rules and controversial.... just look the reactions at Christian BM, it pisses off both sides

well the case of christian BM is really special one... i mean BM was fundamentally anti-religious ,often exclusively anti-christian and Christian BM is kinda oxymoron. I mean if those CBM band like that sound its ok by me but they should pick up some other name for it .
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts

Posts: 8896

Age: 30
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 19:17
Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Well, is christian metal is metal? Technically, yes. It has got everythin' what metal has got - drummer, distorted guitars and typical 4/4 (but christian metal hasn't got any girls that wanted to have sex with you at backstage after heavy live show), but IMO christian metal has lost it's 'metal' soul. Well, singing about god, and his goodness isn't 'metal enough'. Metal music is always associated with sex & drugs & orgies & drinking & brutality & more sex and orgies. Metal music is expression. The best expression ever. Do you ever hear emm pop music that lirycally says about redemption, woe, kill, gore sex or everything that is untypical? Same with soul, r'n'b, etc. Even songs about lost love are better with guitars than 'Praise the god! Make next crusade! God is fucking god!'. It's even sound unserious.



I am going to to be very open and honest here. Your post shows a lack of knowledge about both Christian Metal and Metal music in general.


Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

but christian metal hasn't got any girls that wanted to have sex with you at backstage after heavy live show),

I have had plenty of shows where some girl in the audience tried to take me back to her place. Is this as common as it is in say the glam metal scene of the 1980's? No it isn't, but it is still there.

Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Metal music is always associated with sex & drugs & orgies & drinking & brutality & more sex and orgies. Metal music is expression.


It is? Huh, I missed that note when I was at a Dream Theater concert. Glam metal is heavily focused on sex, drugs & rock n roll but what about the other genres? I don't see too many power metal bands being associated with it. I tend to associate power metal with riding your majestic steed into battle to slaughter the minions of the goblin king in order to rescue the princess of light...and never turning back on your friends. Prog metal is so often associated with philosophy, religion, and sociology (as well as playing in 19/16 time signature).

Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Metal music is expression. The best expression ever.

Really? More than love. Or sex? Or laying your life down for another? Metal is the best expression ever. Okay...

Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Do you ever hear emm pop music that lirycally says about redemption, woe, kill, gore sex or everything that is untypical? Same with soul, r'n'b, etc.

I guess you've never listened to the blues. Or folk music. There are so many other genres of music that talk about violence...and do it tastefully.

Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Even songs about lost love are better with guitars than 'Praise the god! Make next crusade! God is fucking god!'. It's even sound unserious.


"Make the next crusade!" I guess I missed that lyric. Could you please remind me which song and band that comes from. That whole sentence makes it really apparent that you have not listened to much (if any) Christian bands in the metal scene. I'd highly recommend doing some research on the topic if you want to make such claims.
----
(space for rent)
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3676

Age: 27
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 19:19
It even has the term "metal" in it, genius.

Written by Bad English on 29.03.2013 at 18:51

same like mafia said using gin whit silencer its not a mureder

I wrote a paper on the mafia in college Critical Anaylsis, and I found nothing about that. It's just a myth.
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REPUBLICAN CAR!
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36553

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  29.03.2013 at 19:22
Written by Lit. on 29.03.2013 at 19:19

It even has the term "metal" in it, genius.

Written by Bad English on 29.03.2013 at 18:51

same like mafia said using gin whit silencer its not a mureder

I wrote a paper on the mafia in college Critical Anaylsis, and it says nothing about that.



Ignore his ramblings on the mob he just gets his information from movies
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3676

Age: 27
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 19:24
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 29.03.2013 at 19:22

Ignore his ramblings on the mob he just gets his information from movies

Point taken.
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REPUBLICAN CAR!
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37939

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  29.03.2013 at 19:46
Marcel - no I head about condoms in some radio long time ago when christian ppl rink to radio and talk something :p
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
psykometal
Staffpool

Posts: 4611

Age: 29
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 20:19
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.03.2013 at 18:53

well the case of christian BM is really special one... i mean BM was fundamentally anti-religious ,often exclusively anti-christian and Christian BM is kinda oxymoron. I mean if those CBM band like that sound its ok by me but they should pick up some other name for it .

You are correct, BM WAS fundamentally anti-Christian when it started out but just like everything else evolves, so does metal; death metal was also fundamentally about death/murder/gore when it started but now there are tons of death metal bands out there that have nothing to do with death/murder/gore.

Music in general is determined by it's music, not it's lyrics and the same goes for black metal; otherwise this guy would be called death metal not rap. And there are technically other names/terms for Christian black metal bands that the really devout black metalheads and musicians like to use: white metal and/or unblack metal, and some sites (like MA) will type it as 'black' metal (I've always found it funny that even the biggest metal purists/douche bags on the internet don't even acknowledge the terms "white metal" and "unblack metal").
----
~Zep~
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3110

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  29.03.2013 at 20:26
Written by psykometal on 29.03.2013 at 20:19

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.03.2013 at 18:53

well the case of christian BM is really special one... i mean BM was fundamentally anti-religious ,often exclusively anti-christian and Christian BM is kinda oxymoron. I mean if those CBM band like that sound its ok by me but they should pick up some other name for it .

You are correct, BM WAS fundamentally anti-Christian when it started out but just like everything else evolves, so does metal; death metal was also fundamentally about death/murder/gore when it started but now there are tons of death metal bands out there that have nothing to do with death/murder/gore.

Music in general is determined by it's music, not it's lyrics and the same goes for black metal; otherwise this guy would be called death metal not rap. And there are technically other names/terms for Christian black metal bands that the really devout black metalheads and musicians like to use: white metal and/or unblack metal, and some sites (like MA) will type it as 'black' metal (I've always found it funny that even the biggest metal purists/douche bags on the internet don't even acknowledge the terms "white metal" and "unblack metal").

well the thing that you wrote was my point from the start ... maybe i was a bit unclear
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
psykometal
Staffpool

Posts: 4611

Age: 29
From: USA

  29.03.2013 at 20:38
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.03.2013 at 20:26

well the thing that you wrote was my point from the start ... maybe i was a bit unclear

I did notice you wrote "was" but you didn't follow up with anything further to indicate you weren't defending the purist ideology of black metal and your comment at the end about choosing another name made it seem like you were defending the bm purist ideology.
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~Zep~
Butters49

Posts: 187

Age: 21
From: Canada

  30.03.2013 at 05:49
Hail Satan
----
"Sataaaaaaaaan. Yeah yeah!"
-King Diamond
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1730

Age: 28
From: Australia

  30.03.2013 at 05:50
Early Black Sabbath was pro-Christian. Are they not metal?
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GO THE SHARKS!

"I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "How does he know what I'm thinking?" Well I know everything, and so does your internet service provider."
4look4rd
The Sasquatch

Posts: 769

Age: 22
From: USA

  30.03.2013 at 06:10
A better question would be: Is Christian metal Christian?
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Susan
Smeghead

Posts: 6052

Age: 31
From: USA

  30.03.2013 at 09:59
I'm about as un-Christian as they come. I think it's tragic that anyone would belief such ridiculous superstition and fairy tales. Christianity itself is almost as asinine as this argument.

To say that "Christian" metal is un-metal begs the question: then what IS metal? Is it only metal if the lyrics are about Satan? If that's true, then bands who sing about Odin are un-metal. What about other religions? What about Islamic musicians? Un-metal. Hindi? Un-metal. Non-religious/non-Satanic? Un-metal. See how ridiculous this is?

I hope this was all just a ploy by No Control Radio to get people riled up and listen to the show. I hope you guys don't actually try to argue this point.
----
"A life all mine
Is what I choose
At the end of my days"
--The Gathering "A Life All Mine" from Souvenirs
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1730

Age: 28
From: Australia

  30.03.2013 at 10:26
Written by Susan on 30.03.2013 at 09:59

To say that "Christian" metal is un-metal begs the question: then what IS metal? Is it only metal if the lyrics are about Satan? If that's true, then bands who sing about Odin are un-metal. What about other religions? What about Islamic musicians? Un-metal. Hindi? Un-metal. Non-religious/non-Satanic? Un-metal. See how ridiculous this is?

Lets just say all metal is un-metal.
----
GO THE SHARKS!

"I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "How does he know what I'm thinking?" Well I know everything, and so does your internet service provider."
Night Theater

Posts: 54

Age: 26
From: Australia

  30.03.2013 at 11:16
Well, what constitutes metal, then, OP? I think this is rather silly. Now, I'm not a Christian, so I'm not defending it, but Christian metal is still metal. Can you show me where there are (universal, not socially constructed) laws saying Christian lyrics make a metal band not metal?

Just because it doesn't have the same ideology(ies) as you, it doesn't mean the music itself if not metal. There are many conflicting ideologies in metal music, even outside the realm of religion and metaphysics. I think this is coming from an immature need to feel, well, many things.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36553

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  30.03.2013 at 11:44
Written by M C Vice on 30.03.2013 at 05:50

Early Black Sabbath was pro-Christian. Are they not metal?


A point I wanted to bring into the discussion as well. Somehow people seem to think early Black Sabbath is satanic and anti-Christian when in fact it is pro-Christian.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1730

Age: 28
From: Australia

  30.03.2013 at 12:01
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 30.03.2013 at 11:44

Written by M C Vice on 30.03.2013 at 05:50

Early Black Sabbath was pro-Christian. Are they not metal?


A point I wanted to bring into the discussion as well. Somehow people seem to think early Black Sabbath is satanic and anti-Christian when in fact it is pro-Christian.

Those people obviously haven't heard songs like After Forever.
----
GO THE SHARKS!

"I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "How does he know what I'm thinking?" Well I know everything, and so does your internet service provider."
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  30.03.2013 at 12:19
Written by Guest on 29.03.2013 at 18:43

Well, is christian metal is metal? Technically, yes. It has got everythin' what metal has got - drummer, distorted guitars and typical 4/4 (but christian metal hasn't got any girls that wanted to have sex with you at backstage after heavy live show), but IMO christian metal has lost it's 'metal' soul. Well, singing about god, and his goodness isn't 'metal enough'. Metal music is always associated with sex & drugs & orgies & drinking & brutality & more sex and orgies. Metal music is expression. The best expression ever. Do you ever hear emm pop music that lirycally says about redemption, woe, kill, gore sex or everything that is untypical? Same with soul, r'n'b, etc. Even songs about lost love are better with guitars than 'Praise the god! Make next crusade! God is fucking god!'. It's even sound unserious.


I thought the original post/question was stupid enough, but this post manages to trump it in terms of sheer pointlessness, and just being ridiculous. The only criteria on which whether a band is deemed metal or not, is the style of music they play. I don't believe in a so-called "metal lifestyle", where outside, frivilous, non-musical factors are used to measure how "metal" a band, or an individual is. To me, those who think you need to dress, or behave in a certain way to be classed as "metal" are posers of the highest order. Although ironically, it's these sorts of people who rant on about "posers" in metal more than anyone else.

All those things you mentioned (sex, drugs, etc...) have nothing to do with the musical genre of metal whatsoever. Rob Halford, who many deem as "the metal god" was not the slightest bit interested in having sex with girls after a show. I guess that makes him "not metal" then I suppose? lol And what about females who play metal music? I find it funny how so many metalheads believe they are being "non-conformist" by being into metal, but then being very strict about conforming with certain non-musical criteria in order to be seen as "metal". Any music played with passion and soul is "expression". And that expression can take many different forms, but as long as you are playing metal music (or simply love listening to it), then you are "metal", regardless of what way you want to express yourself. When I was younger, I seen metal as standing for true non-conformity, being true to yourself, and not compromising yourself to fit in with others' ideas of what you should or shouldn't be. If a band plays metal music, then they are metal, end of story. What they write about, how they dress, or act, is total non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

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