Ive watched full length tv program bout lightnings and how they are created, its all well figured and said, so no hasty conclusions indeed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning

Written by Eight on 02.03.2007 at 10:59

Ive watched full length tv program bout lightnings and how they are created, its all well figured and said, so no hasty conclusions indeed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning

From that page:

Quote:
The first process in the generation of lightning is still a matter of debate: one common idea from scientists is that lightning forms from the ejection of charged particles from the sun, which reach Earth through the solar wind.

It's basically what I said earlier.
So no, we did not figure it out yet.
And I'm still confused as to what hasty conclusions you people are talking about.

Written by Guest on 02.03.2007 at 11:03

And I'm still confused as to what hasty conclusions you people are talking about.

by 'hasty conclusion' , I actually meant to say that I wouldn't make any conclusions about this lightening- thing because I have come across some new information(the ones mentioned before) regarding it.

Okay, now it makes even less sense than before. Read: the reason you give now is unconnected with the reason you gave earlier (yourself coming across new information vs humanity having limited knowledge). Context seems to be completely different either. So I seriously have no idea what hasty conclusions you're talking about.

But either way, consider the following: You throw away the possibility of supernatural based on assumptions, which turn out to be awfully flawed.
What's interesting, that's exactly how 20th century science worked as well.

21st century science is different in this way, that it shows much more interest in the supernatural and what follows, it's more likely to explain what used to be dismissed. For example Alchemy which thanks to the 20th century mindset is still largely disregarded, still has support in reality. First documented report of turning lead into gold came from a Nobel-winning Chemist about 50 years ago. Still, it wasn't until recently that non-conventional science found large number of its followers.

When I think about 20th century science, I think of schools' physics books. Lots of rules, lots of boredom.
When I think about modern science, I think of all those non-mainstream inventions I've seen on scientific programs. When you look at some of them, you learn how fragile the reality is and how easy it is to bend the rules. Some of it is actually quite frightening as very often those inventions present reality vastly different from what we perceive in our everyday lives.

So if you want to reject supernatural based on scientific "evidence", go ahead. But keep in mind that science that does this, from day to day becomes thing of the past.

The only thing to do with supernatural things that is worth getting interested about is the "fiction" T.V. show Supernatural lol, good show by the way .

Anyways, I think this supernatural stuff is all fairy tales and if there are weird occurences that we can not explain right now, it's because of our race's brief knowlage of science and one day I hope many strange happenings will turn out to have scientific explainations behind them.

No. I don't believe in such things.

Written by Arian Totalis on 17.12.2006 at 00:12
I don't really think of it as the term "Supernatural," however, Because to me, it is entirely another part of nature, another world that exists that effects our everyday lives, and is Just as much a part of nature as a river is.

I perfectly agree with you. Sure I do believe in what people tends to call "supernatural". The fact is that it's completely natural, mankind just forgot how to use it. It doesn't mean that it's scientifically proved, but it exists.

Magic as I intend it is perfectly natural, we just can't demonstrate its effects yet.
Penicillin before 1928 would be considered as something magic. Yesterday's magic becomes today's science.

Written by Guest on 17.12.2006 at 16:58
in what do you base these beliefs?

In everyday experience. I can't talk for Arian Totalis but I am wiccan and I work with natural energies every day. Feeling them flowing in stones and plants, through meditation and visualization. I can't prove what I'm saying, I can't explain it to you precisely. If I could, it's would be science, not religion.

You know...... my views have developed so much in the past year......... Judging by those around me and everyday life........I feel there is no supernatural entity, the supernatural, I dunno it just seems a tad rediculous! It seems so fantasy-related and turns spirituality into a joke.

I watched a horrifying video on Youtube about some people from Portugal who took a ghost hitchhiker in their car, and they crashed and died when the ghost became all bloody when they came to a spot where she (the ghost) died twenty years ago. I'm not sure if it's real, it looked real to me. Horrible.

I never believe in any of this stuff, and quite frankly can't understand why someone would.

Used to when i was a kid...but i havent seen anything yet so i am a skeptic. if someone can prove it then i may listen.

Written by Øyvind on 04.10.2007 at 13:54

I watched a horrifying video on Youtube about some people from Portugal who took a ghost hitchhiker in their car, and they crashed and died when the ghost became all bloody when they came to a spot where she (the ghost) died twenty years ago. I'm not sure if it's real, it looked real to me. Horrible.

Holy fuckin' shit! That made me shiver dude....

I do believe... i've seen pics and stuff. And you can tell teh difference when it's photoshop and when it look real... Spooky. And here at home we had some odd experiences of objects moving for no reason, and we saw a figure, a lady dressed in white. It was damn scary. Mom - and me - thoght it was my grandma. Not that we're highly religious, but mom thought that a parayer would work... and for odd and unbelievable it may seem, it worked. Spooky. I have good reasons to believe.

@Jonas Wow, I've never had any experiences with ghosts, but there are somewhat trivial things that are not pure coincidence. When my grandmother died some 1,5 years ago, a few birds flew into the house, sparrow and a white dove, and again a year after; When you think about someone, and then they call you, or you run into them on the street; You are incredibly lucky to get out of a situation unhurt, e.g. a car almost ran into you, etc. And it's just everyday business

Written by Øyvind on 05.10.2007 at 23:16

@Jonas Wow, I've never had any experiences with ghosts, but there are somewhat trivial things that are not pure coincidence. When my grandmother died some 1,5 years ago, a few birds flew into the house, sparrow and a white dove, and again a year after; When you think about someone, and then they call you, or you run into them on the street; You are incredibly lucky to get out of a situation unhurt, e.g. a car almost ran into you, etc. And it's just everyday business

Dude, I deffinitely don't wish you to have that experience. It scared the fuck out of me. But you're right in the everyday stuff. Most of teh time we don't realise that sort of things. You made me remember something... I was supposed to go to thge Slipknot (If you like 'em or not is offtopic) concert in Bogotá, but I couldn't 'cause I was using crutches. Then a friend told me the bus I was planing to go in had an accident. Spooky.

I mostly certainly believe in the supernatural. I've had a few experiences of my own far beyond natural explanation or coincidence. And of course to the stubborn close-minded skeptic any testimonial isn't convincing because it becomes an effort to explain the supernatural by the terms of the natural. But a certain skepticism is good in a sense of practicing discernment and not just being superstitious or meaninglessly glorifying 'the unknown.'

Written by Øyvind on 04.10.2007 at 13:54

I watched a horrifying video on Youtube about some people from Portugal who took a ghost hitchhiker in their car, and they crashed and died when the ghost became all bloody when they came to a spot where she (the ghost) died twenty years ago. I'm not sure if it's real, it looked real to me. Horrible.

Is this the video you are talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT8P2Q2wmso

Or perhaps this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oi7cDsK1L4

To me this video looks to kind of fake. It says however that it was indeed found by policemen after a car accident, but what can assure us that this information is true? The "ghost" from the first video looks kind of cute. I wouldn't mind a cute she-ghost like that getting a ride in my car.

As Arian more or less said here in this thread previously, there is nothing super natural in those possible occurrences around us. They are fairly natural. It is just that we human beings have this need of putting ourselves in the center of everything in order to understand what surrounds us and, in that effort, those things or happenings that are not so common (perhaps not common only to those who are exercising the power of classifying and scrutinizing this "reality") or that are hard to experience and whose nature is not verifiable and have so many explanations and so few ways to prove them, tend to be lumped into the "supernatural" classification. However, even when those occurrences may not be so common to us, they are there, and they may have a purpose, not a purpose perhaps but a function or functions, or they may be an effect of something, an effect as common as watching the waters of the sea as blue for the reflection of the sky; it is just that they are hard to perceive for we human beings, or some.

I have never had any of these unusual experiences. The weirdest things that have happened to me were seeing the microwave of the kitchen turning on by itself during midnight (a thing I got to know subsequently that that fucked up machine enjoys to do at several times during day and night) and watching the toilet of my bathroom flushing all by itself. Nothing else. Now, some of my parents have had their share of stories.

My father tells me that once, when he was a teenager, he was walking by a trail in route to his home at night. Back then, there was a lot of foliage in the way since roads had yet to be constructed. He was walking all alone and then he saw as a black horse with red eyes approached him from the air and ran behind him trying to catch him. My father escaped him.

Also, my sister has told me then more than once, in different occasions, she has felt that someone sits in her bed. Also, this one time she came running from the kitchen breathless and told us that she saw a black man with white clothes there. I ran into the kitchen to see if there was something there but there was nothing. I screamed in a mocking way with that skepticism that characterizes me: "Come out you black son of a bitch" (no racism intended) but nothing happened.

@ Darth Satanious It's the first clip. It looked a bit unreal to me as well, there are some blurs that might be a result of some tampering with the video. And she is cute, until she becomes all bloody at the very end, which caused the crash IMO. She can be cute all she wants, ghosts who make you die are not nice. Now, supernatural is a term for something we don't understand. It probably is natural, but until we. as human race, learn more about those events, I don't see any problem in calling it supernatural. And that stuff you told about your father and sister: Your dad met my horse , and your sister met a thief or a hungry wanderer

Oyvind:

One should be more careful and aware of the living rather than worrying about the dead. hmm, I think that the crash happened to fast and I don't think that the one driving could be aware of what was happening back there as fast as to get confused immediately and cause the accident. To me it seems as an orchestrated video.

If a cute ghost like that would get into my car, I would only tell it: "Wow, now I know that you can scream... you are on my car now and there is no escape! bwahahaha" Nah, I'll probably shit my pants or something. At, least I'll try to do the first.

I was not criticizing the use of the word "supernatural", I was more like elaborating from where the concept comes from. If I would like to criticize the word, I would have to criticize almost anything around me that is a product of the human intellect, for instance, the use and numbers, which come to be a construction of human beings (unless someone brings a theory that numbers were handed down by another intelligent being(s) or something).

Please, tie your horse during night, ok? I don't think it was none of those. The back door of the kitchen was closed so that dude needed to have the ability to cross walls or something. I think my sister just needed to sleep a little.

I do tie it, but when it's night in Serbia, it's still day in Puerto Rico, so it's not my fault. I agree with you than it is all natural, but we don't yet know enough to call it that way. And all philosophy about whether something deserves to be called that way, e.g. tree is a tree, one is a one, two is a two... What's the point? A friendly advice, don't think about it, it leads to suicide.

Ive never experienced anything you could call "supernatural" or whatever, but of course, we all shit the pants sometimes, you sometimes hear strange things in the night, or think you saw something weird.... That happens, but I cant call that unnatural...

The other thing is that sometimes people you know for whole life, people who dont need to lie you or anything, tell you of something that happened to them, and you dont know whether to believe or not... After some thinking, you start to wander where is the border between possible and impossible....

Written by Stalker on 14.10.2007 at 00:08

Ive never experienced anything you could call "supernatural" or whatever, but of course, we all shit the pants sometimes, you sometimes hear strange things in the night, or think you saw something weird.... That happens, but I cant call that unnatural...

The other thing is that sometimes people you know for whole life, people who dont need to lie you or anything, tell you of something that happened to them, and you dont know whether to believe or not... After some thinking, you start to wander where is the border between possible and impossible....

Everything is possible, believe me. I was born, there's an example.

i do believe in ghosts and stuff, too much stuff has happened within my family for it to be a coincidence. my stepdad tells us his experiences sometimes, once he was in bed and he saw something get in next to him, like a person was there but there was noone there, doors always shaking and slamming and being pushed down the stairs in an empty house.

he believes he has healing hands as well...kinda sounds like bullshit but his ands get really hot and when he touches people for example, my auntie had a painful knee, he touched her knee and concentrated and the pain was eased which is kinda freaky!

Written by +{Jonas}+ on 08.10.2007 at 05:28

Dude, I deffinitely don't wish you to have that experience. It scared the fuck out of me. But you're right in the everyday stuff. Most of teh time we don't realise that sort of things. You made me remember something... I was supposed to go to thge Slipknot (If you like 'em or not is offtopic) concert in Bogotá, but I couldn't 'cause I was using crutches. Then a friend told me the bus I was planing to go in had an accident. Spooky.

lol what the hell can you do at a slipknot concert in crutches it sounds at least weird to me, considering moshing would be the thing to do.

as for the supernatural, i do believe in it, there is something higher than us, and yes it does sound completely ridiculous and out of a weird fantasy novel. there's just been too many shit that happened in my life to make me believe otherwise.

It seems to me like people who believe in the supernatural are more susceptible to witnessing something deemed to be "supernatural"...

of Course NOT, i don't believe in supernatural or so.
@ Zombie, M.D. :your avatar is awesome.

"[...] in my opinion nothing occurs contrary to nature except the impossible, and that never occurs" - Sagredo, in The Two New Sciences, Galileo Galilei

I would believe more in it if it hadn't been completely commercialized by things such as Ghost Hunters and every other clone of the show, or all the hoaxes going around for popularity. It is possible that there is something beyond this world, and it is possible there isn't, I doubt anyone will be able to make factual statement on the matter for a long time, if ever.

Yes, I do believe in a supernatural entity.

"Supernatural" seems like an impossible concept. Nature encompasses all that exists. Nature is, by a reasonable definition, existence. I don't see how something supernatural could be in the sense we understand being, as it would be logically incongruous. If it exists, it's natural. If it's supernatural, it cannot exist.

You could postulate other forms of existence, a possibility outside of nature. Sure. But as purely creatures of nature, we couldn't experience it, be in any causal relationship to it, and couldn't even think about it. Frankly, "supernatural" has no meaningful content that the human mind could grasp. Anyone claiming to be talking about it, let alone experience it, is simply guilty of sloppy thinking.

Something that has physical, natural effects isn't supernatural. Even if there were ghosts or telekinetic abilities, they wouldn't be "supernatural" insofar as they could be perceived or could affect our reality. Therefore they would be subject to the same rules of comprehension and causality the rest of our reality, and could be interacted with. If there are genuine phenomena still unobservable by and incomprehensible to science but which people have experienced and formed superstitious beliefs about (which is possible but probably not as common as tinfoil people would have you believe), there's nothing supernatural about them. They can eventually be explained in natural terms.

Many things can be inexplicable, but that's not very shocking. Explanation is a human discursive practice. It may very well be that we don't have the tools to process certain phenomena in a culturally comprehensible way. That has no bearing on their status as causal phenomena of natural reality. Many types of formal logic have only been developed in the 20th century and would answer problems that seemed inexplicable to 19th century logicians. To the common man, they're still incomprehensible, because they haven't mastered the conceptual tools of the discursive practice of logic. That doesn't make possible world semantics or somesuch "supernatural."