Metal and Classic Music



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Original post

Posted by sentenced, 11.06.2013 - 15:41
I think metal and classic music are so similiar everybody i know who listen to metal like classic music and also generally classic music lovers like metal music i like classic music as metal
In metal music first you think there is a big chaos and complexity but then you noticed it isn't like that it is very organized some people think that for classical music too
Metal is not a young style of music is not abaout 45-50 year old i think metal's root comes from classic music
Like classic music lovers metal has elite fans
what do you think abaout it ?
06.10.2014 - 09:38
Ganondox
Interestingly enough, studies have shown that metalheads and fans of classical music tend to have very similar Big 5 personalities, the main difference being on neuroticism, where metalheads were likely to be neurotic, while classical fans emotionally stable, and outside of those scores the largest difference was merely the age difference, classical fans were older. Of all the different groups, they were the most similar.

Anyway, metal has similarities to classical music, especially certain subgenres, and it takes more from classical music than most popular genres, but at the roots metal is "pop music", and classical is "art music". I saw an article once where a metalhead explained all the ways metal was different than classical music and how classical music was superior in terms of complexity, but I can't seem to find it.
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07.10.2014 - 06:28
Ganondox
Written by deadone on 07.10.2014 at 01:45

Written by Ganondox on 06.10.2014 at 09:38

Anyway, metal has similarities to classical music, especially certain subgenres, and it takes more from classical music than most popular genres, but at the roots metal is "pop music", and classical is "art music".



Classical was originally popular music i.e. popular music for Europe's aristocracy.


Classical music was never considered popular music, even when it was popular among aristocracy. That is exactly what made it art music back then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music
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08.10.2014 - 16:27
raveneffect
The whole purpouse of this thread was already covered by Sam Dunn
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11.11.2014 - 23:04
_deepblack
Actually i think some roots of metal maybe very original roots of metal came from a guy named Richard Wagner he is like father to metal in a way he is very very talented and creative in Diminished songs u will understand if u give it a try
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02.06.2016 - 23:12
Enteroctopus
Written by Malphas on 12.07.2013 at 06:57

I feel like i should leave this here...

This post has revealed to me that there are an additional three tracks on Portal I did not have (as my friend burned it for me). This is a tremendous discovery, a happy man am I!

Cannot wait to listen to this masterpiece in its entirety, but shall start at the beginning as was intended.
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02.06.2016 - 23:50
Malphas
That post is almost 3 years old, but sure, always happy to help xD
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Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
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03.06.2016 - 08:45
Ganondox
Written by _deepblack on 11.11.2014 at 23:04

Actually i think some roots of metal maybe very original roots of metal came from a guy named Richard Wagner he is like father to metal in a way he is very very talented and creative in Diminished songs u will understand if u give it a try


Beethoven has as much claim, and he did it first.
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11.09.2016 - 21:37
Crimson Maiden
Yeah, I think some classic rock had an influence of metal....Rock is what I started off with before I dived into metal...I am thinking of folks like Eric Clapton, The Beatles, The Doors for example....8-]]
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01.11.2017 - 22:23
MvonSutherland
Every modern music (including metal) has roots in "classical" music: Medieval, Baroque and XIX century music especially).

The way of composing metal riffs is very similar to composing melodies for strings quartets or orchestra.
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14.12.2017 - 04:56
Übermensch242
Classical music was basically just Metal before there was electricity. Fans of both music have the exact same thirst for grandiose presentation in what they listen to.

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What is the difference between the man who fools you from the pulpit, and the other man who fools you from the platform?
Both of them seek to obtain power over you - To rule your mind, control your property interests or labor power.
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14.12.2017 - 11:57
IronAngel
Grandiose presentation? Someone's been listening to film scores and romantic symphonies, I guess. >_> I don't really see the connection to a Bach cello suite, a Schubert lied or a Reneissance vocal piece.

I get that the big, bombastic tunes appeal to the plebs because they're recognizable, but I don't think that's what many classical fans listen for. The Wagner comparison (a few posts above) is especially inane; have you actually been to a Wagner opera? Just because he's known for the brief bit that opens the third (second?) act of the Valkyrie doesn't mean it's often like that. He is notoriously unmelodic, unrelenting, teasing and exhausting the listener with endless tension that very rarely resolves into satisfying moments. That's what makes those moments so powerful in their context (not so much separately; I'd much rather listen to Mozart arias on their own). He is the polar opposite of metal's instant gratification and kick-ass aesthetic. After sitting through 4 hours of Tristan and Isolde, I assure you, Iron Maiden is the last thing on your mind.

This self-gratulatory fantasy makes me puke. Metal is straightforward and in your face, with emphasis on rhythm. Classical music doesn't rely on rhythm much at all, with much more attention to complex rules than easy comprehension. Sure, there are similarities, but that's true of all Western music (and music in general). Writing riffs "like classical" is hardly unique to metal (and I'm not even sure what that means; the short, repeating nature of the riff is antithetical to most classical preferences).
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18.12.2017 - 14:24
Become Death
I couldn't agree with IronAngel more. Metal is not an organic growth from classical. Metal comes from rock, which is mostly based on blues and european folk music. I think the genre with the strongest influence on metal is definitely blues, as Black Sabbath are generally considered the first metal band and they started as a blues band. I'm not saying there is no connection between metal and classical, but that I think the classical influence on metal is an after the fact affectation. If you listen to early blues artists such as Son House, Robert Johnson, or Blind Lemon Jefferson, and think of the same stuff played a little heavier and with distortion, I think you will hear many similarities to metal.
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Fear is the path to the darkside. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Once you start down the path to the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
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27.12.2017 - 21:31
Aristarchos
Written by Become Death on 18.12.2017 at 14:24

I couldn't agree with IronAngel more. Metal is not an organic growth from classical. Metal comes from rock, which is mostly based on blues and european folk music. I think the genre with the strongest influence on metal is definitely blues, as Black Sabbath are generally considered the first metal band and they started as a blues band. I'm not saying there is no connection between metal and classical, but that I think the classical influence on metal is an after the fact affectation. If you listen to early blues artists such as Son House, Robert Johnson, or Blind Lemon Jefferson, and think of the same stuff played a little heavier and with distortion, I think you will hear many similarities to metal.

Although I too agree with IronAngel's comment and with you about that metal evolved more from rock than from classical music, I can't here much blues in metal (with some exceptions, like Black Sabbath). Metal is way more rock than blues. The main thing that separates metal (almost more than its weight) from hard rock is that metal has got rid of the blues element. Early Judas Priest may have some influences from it, but I can't here any such influences in Iron Maiden. Sure there are classical influences in a lot of metal bands, for example already in Judas Priest (and Black Sabbath's song "Black Sabbath" was influenced by Gustav Holst's "Mars"), but there are a lot of metal that don't have any influences from it too. Take Slayer, for example (or most of their followers)? Where are the classical influences in them? And Iron Maiden was clearly influenced by progressive rock, but it is easier to find influences from folk music in them than from classical music. And, like IronAngel, I can't think of metal when I listen to Wagner's "Tristan und Isolde", although I have really tried. I don't know much about Wagner's other works, though. Some classical works are great, but there are great pop music too. In general classical music is not for me, although I have given it an attempt. I listen more to pop.
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11.01.2018 - 01:02
Become Death
Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2017 at 21:31

Metal is way more rock than blues.

I think we're mostly agreeing, but this statement makes almost no sense to me, considering rock is almost exclusively based on blues. Some European folk influence too, but rock is really based more on blues than anything else.
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Fear is the path to the darkside. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Once you start down the path to the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
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29.03.2018 - 08:23
CobiWan1993
Secundum Filium
I am a big fan of both metal and classical music and have seen classical orchestras play live as well as regular metal shows. Metal, especially some of the more complex and melodic subgenres, has taken a lot of inspiration from classical music. Just listen to some of Beethoven's compositions like the third movement of his Moonlight Sonata and you can hear the beginnings of power metal! I'll post a link to show what I'm talking about:

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Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree (Martin Luther).
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29.03.2018 - 20:54
Ganondox
Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2017 at 21:31

Written by Become Death on 18.12.2017 at 14:24

I couldn't agree with IronAngel more. Metal is not an organic growth from classical. Metal comes from rock, which is mostly based on blues and european folk music. I think the genre with the strongest influence on metal is definitely blues, as Black Sabbath are generally considered the first metal band and they started as a blues band. I'm not saying there is no connection between metal and classical, but that I think the classical influence on metal is an after the fact affectation. If you listen to early blues artists such as Son House, Robert Johnson, or Blind Lemon Jefferson, and think of the same stuff played a little heavier and with distortion, I think you will hear many similarities to metal.

Although I too agree with IronAngel's comment and with you about that metal evolved more from rock than from classical music, I can't here much blues in metal (with some exceptions, like Black Sabbath). Metal is way more rock than blues. The main thing that separates metal (almost more than its weight) from hard rock is that metal has got rid of the blues element. Early Judas Priest may have some influences from it, but I can't here any such influences in Iron Maiden. Sure there are classical influences in a lot of metal bands, for example already in Judas Priest (and Black Sabbath's song "Black Sabbath" was influenced by Gustav Holst's "Mars"), but there are a lot of metal that don't have any influences from it too. Take Slayer, for example (or most of their followers)? Where are the classical influences in them? And Iron Maiden was clearly influenced by progressive rock, but it is easier to find influences from folk music in them than from classical music. And, like IronAngel, I can't think of metal when I listen to Wagner's "Tristan und Isolde", although I have really tried. I don't know much about Wagner's other works, though. Some classical works are great, but there are great pop music too. In general classical music is not for me, although I have given it an attempt. I listen more to pop.


With regards to Wagner, I think his main influence on rock is via the Ring Cycle, and even there it's more the aesthetics and themes that are influential rather than the actual music, though the individual segment Ride of the Valkyries certainly influenced a lot of songs. The classical musicians who I think are biggest influences musically on metal (or at least have the most superficial semblance) are Vivaldi, Beethoven, Ravel, and Stravinsky (the last only on certain extreme metal though).
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30.03.2018 - 11:16
IronAngel
Written by Ganondox on 29.03.2018 at 20:54

The classical musicians who I think are biggest influences musically on metal (or at least have the most superficial semblance) are Vivaldi, Beethoven, Ravel, and Stravinsky (the last only on certain extreme metal though).


What are you thinking of, specifically, as regards Ravel?

I think it's obvious that classical music has "inspired" or "influenced" plenty of metal, but that's true of virtually any music genre (in different ways). It would be pretty weird if the world's most popular, well-known pieces of music had no impact on musicians who, in all likelihood, had to play them time and again during their training, whether at conservatories or private lessons.

But acknowledging that is almost trivial. Without doubt, metal (as other umbrella genres) has been equally influenced by other, comparably well-known music. The fact that some people feel the need to stress the classical connection is probably for two reasons:
1) It sounds cool and respectable, trying to siphon some of the prestige of classical for metal. That's what irritates me the most, kind of like people who go to classical concerts just because it's the "appropriate" thing to do. It's as if they're worried metal isn't legitimate music on its own merits.
2) It's not the closest, most obvious comparison, which makes it seem relevant. Classical music is far enough removed from metal, and unfamiliar enough for most metal fans, to make the similarities seem surprising. Of course you'll find similarities like the Beethoven sonata above (like, eh, plenty of notes played in quick succession?) if you take bits out of contect (a classical piece is hardly defined by any single melodic passage). But that's just because the much more obvious influences are taken for granted. I'm sure that early 21st century metal is much influenced by Bruce Springsteen, being what the musicians heard a lot on the radio as kids, but it's too obvious and familiar to pick up on.

I hear plenty of "classical influence" in piano-driven singer-songwriter stuff, prog, krautrock, electronic music and plunderphonics, various forms of jazz, post-rock, types of experimental and free folk, art/chamber pop etc. Hell, Pet Shop Boys' Go West is basically built on Pachelbel. It's not like "classical influence" is exactly uncommon in Western popular music; more like inevitable.
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01.04.2018 - 02:20
Ganondox
Written by IronAngel on 30.03.2018 at 11:16

Written by Ganondox on 29.03.2018 at 20:54

The classical musicians who I think are biggest influences musically on metal (or at least have the most superficial semblance) are Vivaldi, Beethoven, Ravel, and Stravinsky (the last only on certain extreme metal though).


What are you thinking of, specifically, as regards Ravel?

I think it's obvious that classical music has "inspired" or "influenced" plenty of metal, but that's true of virtually any music genre (in different ways). It would be pretty weird if the world's most popular, well-known pieces of music had no impact on musicians who, in all likelihood, had to play them time and again during their training, whether at conservatories or private lessons.

But acknowledging that is almost trivial. Without doubt, metal (as other umbrella genres) has been equally influenced by other, comparably well-known music. The fact that some people feel the need to stress the classical connection is probably for two reasons:
1) It sounds cool and respectable, trying to siphon some of the prestige of classical for metal. That's what irritates me the most, kind of like people who go to classical concerts just because it's the "appropriate" thing to do. It's as if they're worried metal isn't legitimate music on its own merits.
2) It's not the closest, most obvious comparison, which makes it seem relevant. Classical music is far enough removed from metal, and unfamiliar enough for most metal fans, to make the similarities seem surprising. Of course you'll find similarities like the Beethoven sonata above (like, eh, plenty of notes played in quick succession?) if you take bits out of contect (a classical piece is hardly defined by any single melodic passage). But that's just because the much more obvious influences are taken for granted. I'm sure that early 21st century metal is much influenced by Bruce Springsteen, being what the musicians heard a lot on the radio as kids, but it's too obvious and familiar to pick up on.

I hear plenty of "classical influence" in piano-driven singer-songwriter stuff, prog, krautrock, electronic music and plunderphonics, various forms of jazz, post-rock, types of experimental and free folk, art/chamber pop etc. Hell, Pet Shop Boys' Go West is basically built on Pachelbel. It's not like "classical influence" is exactly uncommon in Western popular music; more like inevitable.


With Ravel most people point out the similarities between Bolero and the riff oriented compositions of metal music, but I find Toccata to be the most similar. If played on electric guitar it would practically be heavy metal as it, it's got the rhythm, harmonies, and melodic structures down. Of course his typical impressionist sound is nothing like metal.
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01.04.2018 - 11:50
IronAngel
Written by Ganondox on 01.04.2018 at 02:20

With Ravel most people point out the similarities between Bolero and the riff oriented compositions of metal music, but I find Toccata to be the most similar. If played on electric guitar it would practically be heavy metal as it, it's got the rhythm, harmonies, and melodic structures down.


Oh yeah, that's true about Bolero. I had no recollection of the toccata or the piece it's a part of, although we seem to have it (along with all his solo piano works) on CD. What's interesting and perhaps telling is that Bolero was specifically written for ballet, and Le Tombeau de Couperin as a whole is inspired by baroque dance suites (Wikipedia ftw). So classical is closest to metal and rhythmic popular music when it's associated with dancing? That wouldn't be surprising.

I think of jazz when I think of Ravel, mostly because of the Piano Concerto in G Major, one of my favorites. He does have quite a lot of breadth!
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02.04.2018 - 03:22
Ganondox
Written by IronAngel on 01.04.2018 at 11:50

Written by Ganondox on 01.04.2018 at 02:20

With Ravel most people point out the similarities between Bolero and the riff oriented compositions of metal music, but I find Toccata to be the most similar. If played on electric guitar it would practically be heavy metal as it, it's got the rhythm, harmonies, and melodic structures down.


Oh yeah, that's true about Bolero. I had no recollection of the toccata or the piece it's a part of, although we seem to have it (along with all his solo piano works) on CD. What's interesting and perhaps telling is that Bolero was specifically written for ballet, and Le Tombeau de Couperin as a whole is inspired by baroque dance suites (Wikipedia ftw). So classical is closest to metal and rhythmic popular music when it's associated with dancing? That wouldn't be surprising.

I think of jazz when I think of Ravel, mostly because of the Piano Concerto in G Major, one of my favorites. He does have quite a lot of breadth!


That sounds about right. One thing I'd like to add is that my music history teacher stated that he believed Toccata specifically was inspired by the rhythmic sounds of machinery, which was also an influence on many heavy metal bands.
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