Vaccines - Do you trust them?
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Posts: 58
Visited by: 79 users
Original post
Posted by toxx, 09.06.2015 - 15:57
I'm pro-vaccination, just to get that question out of the way, but how about you people? Do you think that vaccines are just poison, made up for the medical industry to make money? Just a scam? Or do you believe that vaccines actually saves an incredible amount of people from deadly diseases every year?
toxx Supreme being |
12.06.2015 - 11:54
I'll allow myself to copy the text from facebook that is going viral these days, written by a Canadian named Neal Cohen: "A message to all anti-vaxxers: Well, today we found out that my 5 month old daughter has the measles. Think about that for a second...my infant child contracted a disease that until recently had been virtually eradicated from our society. She is too young to be vaccinated (they get the MMR vaccine at 12 months) and so she is entirely reliant on the people around her to have the good sense to get theirs. It's called herd immunity. Here's the thing about herd immunity; it only works if you have an overwhelming number of intelligent people surrounding idiots such as yourself. In other words, your justification of an irresponsible decision is that there are enough people around you being smart that you can afford to be stupid. Unfortunately, your "movement" has given other stupid people the impression that they should have a choice whether or not to vaccinate their children. Vaccination is not a choice; it is a social responsibility. If everyone were to treat this social responsibility with the same disregard that you have, thousands and perhaps millions of children would be exposed to diseases that cause blindness, meningitis, encephalitis, croup, and other preventable complications. Your selfishness (or perhaps more accurately, the fact that you are a fucking moron) has put an entire new generation of children at risk to contract diseases that had been a non-issue for more than 100 years. 92% of doctors in North America are in agreement that the recent "anti-vax" movement is to blame for the resurgence of diseases like whooping cough and the measles. Nearly 100% of doctors agree that the benefits of vaccination greatly outweigh any risks associated with administration of the vaccines. Unfortunately, we have an outbreak of physicians who recently graduated from the University of Google that have outsmarted western medicine. Therefore I'd like to THANK YOU, in the most sarcastic tone possible, for the risk you've reintroduced to society's most at-risk, susceptible citizens. If your school age child contracts the measles, and your child infects others, you should be charged with criminal negligence. Of course that won't happen, but a guy can dream, can't he? So thanks, "anti-vaxxers". I hope you get polio."
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Rasputin |
12.06.2015 - 13:07 Written by toxx on 12.06.2015 at 11:16 I was anti H1N1 and I don't like the seasonal flu shots. The other ones I have no problem with, on that we can agree, but I have to know what is in them before I take them. Written by deadone on 12.06.2015 at 06:52 One of my jobs is in the medical field as well, but I don't do it because of money, but because I like it, and I like saving the lives of the people, so it may not be dead, just hard to find. I have no problem with the standard vaccines we have gotten as children for rubella, pox and other stuff, my only worry is, what is in them in this day and age. I recently discovered that the USA Pharmaceutical companies are testing various vaccines and medications in the Balkans, because even the people from South America got wiser and are not as easily fooled. I have several friends who work as Doctors/Nurses, that have told me pretty much the same thing, people are unknowingly made guinea pigs.
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Ilham Giant robot |
12.06.2015 - 15:06 Written by Guest on 11.06.2015 at 22:42 I know, it gave me chills myself
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Ritual_Suicide Account deleted |
12.06.2015 - 20:39 Ritual_Suicide
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I'd just like to point out that drug companies make very little, if any, profit off of vaccines. The real money is in overcharging for drugs that treat conditions but don't cure them.
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Rasputin |
13.06.2015 - 01:21 Written by Guest on 12.06.2015 at 20:39 Baxter International made a fuckload during the H1N1 scare, especially when Obama signed a bill that you could not sue the company if you had any adverse side effects to include death. If they did not make money on it, they would not make it and lobby for it to be forced on the general public.
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Ritual_Suicide Account deleted |
13.06.2015 - 17:34 Ritual_Suicide
Account deleted Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 01:21 I can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Obama signed any such law. He did make an emergency declaration which gave hospitals more leeway in the case of a massive swine flu outbreak though. I also can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Baxter International made profits off of the swine flu vaccine. Companies that make vaccines can make profits off of other things y'know. They just generally do not from the vaccines themselves. The last part about "forcing" vaccines on the general public being proof that producing vaccines is profitable is, with all due respect, horseshit. The only place I can find anything backing up your claims is Infowars and related sites like CBN and Fox.
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Rasputin |
14.06.2015 - 04:12 Written by Guest on 13.06.2015 at 17:34 My bad, it was Obama's secretary that signed it, but he approved it. Also, a fun fact, he had shares in the company when he was a Senator and still now. If they did not make money on this vaccine, why did they patent it then? Why would they make it? Why did they apply for a patent for H1N1 year or two before the official outbreak? You think it was a coincidence that the media was pushed to ramp up the bullshit story or a mass pandemic? Right.
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Candlemass Defaeco |
14.06.2015 - 10:58
Yes and people that don't vaccine their children are a danger to them and others.
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Ritual_Suicide Account deleted |
14.06.2015 - 11:17 Ritual_Suicide
Account deleted Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:12 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause EDIT: I just finished doing another google search looking for sources saying that Obama owns stock in Baxter International and once again all of the sources are from conspiracy sites.
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Rasputin |
14.06.2015 - 14:58 Written by Guest on 14.06.2015 at 11:17 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/19/us-flu-vaccines-idUSBRE90I0AI20130119 You are correct that the big Pharma does not make as much money from vaccines as it does from everything else, but I would say that it still makes enough. One thing that this "mainstream" source points out, is that if they don't sell enough vaccines, they will go to waste and they will not make money, which would explain why they generated so much hype, to scare people to go get immunized. And also, we live in capitalism, no one does anything for free, or at least not with some ulterior motive. You do realize that by just stating "they are from conspiracy sites" I can pull up any media outlet and just say for CBS, MSNBC etc, "well, they are from maintream media sources."
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Rasputin |
15.06.2015 - 20:59 Written by deadone on 15.06.2015 at 03:05 They get money from the government for the vaccines, and I think up until recently you could've sued the pharmaceutical company if you had adverse side effects to the vaccine, now you can't do that, you have to go through the US government that has funds set up for things like that. They don't have to ram it down your throats, no no matter what, you use their products. Pharmaceutical industry and it's companies have their fingers in too many pies, people just don't realize that. Corporations only care about making money, everything else is secondary.
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Rasputin |
16.06.2015 - 21:11 Written by deadone on 16.06.2015 at 02:20 I didn't say it was a conspiracy, I just merely pointed out that I disagree with money over life/livelyhood mentality, especially from the industry that provides medicine. But I think too much capitalism and greed is not a good thing
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carltonh Posts: 72 |
18.06.2015 - 04:50
A friend of mine's baby reacted and died within 48 hours of receiving a DTaP vaccine. Her baby was a micro-preemie (born at 2 pounds). The DTaP vaccine makers even specifically warn about its danger to preemie babies, as their weak immune system can't handle it, but doctors in the USA don't read or listen. To keep her from reporting this as a vaccine death, they threatened to have the state take away her other children, as if the death were her fault. You may say that this is just a single anecdotal case, but even the US Gov. statistics show that infant mortality in industrialized countries is directly related to number of vaccines in infants, with the countries with the most vaccines also having the highest infant mortality.
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carltonh Posts: 72 |
18.06.2015 - 06:30
Here's the data on infant mortality, and I'm anti-vaccine because I'm a statistician (by college degrees). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/ I'm not trying to stop anyone from getting vaccines who wants them. I just believe in natural medicine, natural immunity, etc. for myself and family.
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Ritual_Suicide Account deleted |
18.06.2015 - 07:12 Ritual_Suicide
Account deleted Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30 And this matters when discussing medicine how? Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30 You must not be aware that there are a multitude of diseases that can kill children that have no vaccine and are instead prevented by modern sanitation and medical care. Just look at the way Libera dealt with the recent ebola outbreak versus the way Nigeria handled it. The former has a very poorly developed infrastructure in both categories while the latter is among the best in Africa. Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30 Only a spoiled westerner living today could make such a ridiculous choice. Go back 100 years and see how long "natural" medicine protects you against small pox, diphtheria or typhoid.
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no one Account deleted |
18.06.2015 - 09:01 no one
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I don't think natural medicine is a total write off in a milder sense and is becoming more common these days now scientist are understanding how things work more and how to use them, how to extract certain chemicals and things i'll pretend to know lots about. Things like st johns wort, 5htp and just look at what they are doing with cannabis now.
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no one Account deleted |
18.06.2015 - 09:36 no one
Account deleted Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 09:18 hence why i said "in a milder sense"
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toxx Supreme being |
18.06.2015 - 09:49 Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 05:15 Can't speak for other countries, as I don't really have the knowledge, but here's a few numbers from Norway. We have one of the lowest mortality rates for children under 5 years in the world. And by the age of 2, they have gotten all the vaccines in the program before 5. next vaccine is given at the age of 7-8 years. In total there is 9 vaccines in the Norwegian program (counting the HPV-vaccine for girls) There is about 200 deaths a year (Children under the age of 4), mostly because of sudden infant death (crib death). Can't stick that on vaccines, though I know a lot of anti-vaxxers do. Some children are sadly lost to cancer. Can't stick that on vaccines either. I don't rally think there is a correlation between child mortality and the vaccine program. But if there is believable statistics on this, not coming from som conspiracy website, I would be more than happy to read it. Gotta say I agree with deadone on this.
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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite |
18.06.2015 - 11:34
Like Churchill (I think it was him) said: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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no one Account deleted |
18.06.2015 - 22:31 no one
Account deleted Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.06.2015 at 11:34 statistics can be false too.......it's all a conspiracy
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Ritual_Suicide Account deleted |
18.06.2015 - 23:54 Ritual_Suicide
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Something else to consider when comparing infant mortality rates between different countries is that the criteria they use to determine live births can vary quite a bit. One country can have a very narrow definition based on weight or age of the infant while another can basically leave it up to the doctor. This applies to all statistical comparisons between different countries.
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Mick Bynes |
22.06.2015 - 09:49
I do. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I was and then a good friend of mine told me the truth about vaccines. He knows his stuff when it comes to science.
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MoonProgeny |
14.10.2015 - 04:03
My wife works at a hospital that makes it mandatory to get the flu vaccine which, in my opinion, feels rather dystopian. The flu vaccine merely consists of perceived remedies for flu strains that some corporate big-wigs think are going to be popular during whatever given year the vaccine is being administered in. It's not a cure and it's not universally effective either, obviously. Eh, it's all too much of a shot in the dark in my eyes to be considered mandatory. Furthermore, medicine, as a whole, is a personal choice that shouldn't be dictated by employers, corporations and the like. I mean, it's bad enough the exploitation of capitalism is where it's at presently in the health-care industry without things like this being added to the fray.
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Cavernous |
28.10.2015 - 18:15
I don't see any difference between letting people not to vaccinate themselves or their kids and allowing random assholes to carry weapons. One of the great accomplishments of human civilization is decease control. Some people just have too much time to waste and shit to spread. And yes; that's another accomplishment of human civilization, unfortunately.
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Metren Dreadrealm |
31.07.2017 - 14:15 Written by Mick Bynes on 22.06.2015 at 09:49 Wow. Not too many cases like that in my experience. I know loads and loads of people who don't vaccinate their kids, not even with scheduled childhood vaccines and I can't get any of them to listen to reason. It's always the same long ago debunked garbage about mercury this, big pharma that, autism those etc. You have my deepest respect for changing your mind when presented with scientific evidence.
---- My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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CraigNima Posts: 1 |
03.05.2019 - 13:36
Vaccinations have emerged as one of the most emotional issues of the 2019 legislative session, spurred by a growing number of outbreaks of measles, whooping cough and other diseases across the country.1
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Vincenzo E |
27.05.2019 - 21:24
I trust vaccines but you have to admit that accepting that the government can force you to take an injection would require a large amount of trust in government.
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Metren Dreadrealm |
06.06.2019 - 11:33 Written by Vincenzo E on 27.05.2019 at 21:24 I think we can trust the government to prefer a healthy citizenry to one that is dying/ill. If nobody is well, then nobody's working and paying taxes, nobody is ready for military service etc.
---- My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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