Metal Storm logo
Hellfest - Refuse To Drop Down From Lineup; French Government Yanks Funding


According to HuffPo France, after the controversial video was posted a few weeks ago showing Phil Anselmo giving the Nazi salute and shouting "white power", something he has apologized for multiple times, French senator and President of the General Council of the Vendée, Bruno Retailleau asked the promoters of French festival Hellfest to drop Down from its annual summer fest for promoting hatred. Dutch festival FortaRock canceled Down's appearance "to make clear that there is no room for racism or fascism at FortaRock."

The senator was offering Hellfest promoter Ben Barbaud an ultimatum. Either pull Down from the fest, or the fest loses it's ? 20,000 subsidy funding from the city of Region Pays de la Loire, which senator Bruno Retailleau oversees. Retailleau said that the city will not promote anything with "incitement to racial or religious hatred."

Hellfest isn't dropping Down from the lineup and have released a lengthy statement explaining why. Ben Barbaud, President of the association Hellfest Productions, wrote: "Dear Mme Garnier, Mr Retailleau, President of the Cultural Commission and President of the Regional Council of Pays de la Loire respectively. It has taken you barely more than two months to elaborate your famous pretext used to cancel the 10 year long, historical partnership between the Pays de la Loire region and the Hellfest festival; the biggest modern music festival in France, which I represent.

"No, Madame Garnier you have had no intention of meeting with me, despite my many requests since your appointment, in December 2015, to the regional council. An appointment had indeed been arranged, but only with your 'assistant.' I consider this proof of your lack of consideration for our festival, just recently voted best French festival for the second year in a row. Today we were informed of a sudden change to this appointment; finally you will be present. To what do we owe this honour of your presence so suddenly? Is it out of necessity to defend your stance, given your recent media outpourings.

"I have read with great interest your recent statements to date. Statements published on social media networks to your 5000 followers. I would hasten to reply under the same form but before the scrutiny of our 300 000 followers. I would gladly have given you answers had you had the courtesy to contact me before throwing opprobrium onto an event which has never had the slightest incident to mention. An event for which the majority of the Loire's inhabitants, national media and Prefecture have nothing but praise for its organisation and harmonious atmosphere. For I have learned of your 'demand to exclude the group Down from our festival' via the press - a strange way to communicate with an organisation that is a so-called partner.

"I will endeavour to give you my version of events, and by beginning with the facts your real intentions against our festival will come to light. Unlike you, I have no reason to hide my intentions, and I have no reason to lie to the electorate since I am not standing for office. To be honest, I am disgusted by politics, like many of my fellow citizens. It is my passion for my work and music that obliges me to write to you; regrettably, as I would have greatly preferred it were otherwise. You received on February 2, an email from the collective 'Provocs Hellfest ça suffit' (a collective renowned for their fierce opposition to our festival) informing you of an incident in the USA. You would see the artist Philip Anselmo, whom you had never heard of 72h previous, giving a Hitler salute and shouting 'White power.'

"We, like you, and I speak on behalf of the heavy metal music community, denounce this inexcusable effusion. Nevertheless, you deliberately omit to mention that this man has made multiple, public apologies, and has sworn that he is not anti-Semitic nor does he have hateful feelings towards any creed or kin. Moreover, we know this person and consider ourselves responsible and able enough to justify his presence among the many guests at our festival. This is in no way an act of complacency with regard to inappropriateness, as you have insinuated, for the festival that I head is, and never will be, a platform for racist or hateful rhetoric. This person committed a grave error that he regrets sincerely, it would be fallacious to consider him as someone he is not. I could send you a long list of artists known for pushing the boundaries of provocation under the influence of alcohol and drugs. Rock 'n' roll has always had its excesses that only its fans and connoisseurs can understand and forgive. David Bowie in his time, Sid Vicious, I could go on... Philip Anselmo has acted, I grant you, on this occasion as an imbecile. He is a provocative and fiery artist like many born out of Rock 'n' roll, but an artist that I would defend because I am certain that he does not belong among those who are hate-filled and spread nauseating ideas... Admit it, though, this does not interest you, only the pretext by which to please your electorate through cutting your ties to our event. Must I remind you that you have continually voted against supporting our cause (financially and morally) for the past 10 years in the opposition government? To hear you say that since your election, your regional council has never 'withdrawn support for the festival nor even threatened to,' is but another of many political machinations designed to beguile the electorate in the Loire of your real intentions.

"This festival has been such a successful adventure and example of human success. It has eradicated much prejudice against a stigmatised and caricatured public, too often wrongly judged as violent, occultist, even satanic. You must doubtlessly belong to those few remaining persons to realise this fact. This is as much a pity as it is worrying as the people in the Loire have put their trust in you to deliver a policy of cultural diversity in the Pays de la Loire region. This dynamic region should rejoice and be proud to see a group of passionate youngsters succeed in creating such a successful venture in rural France! We have created 15 full-time jobs, 500 part-time and temporary contracts in an unpredictable cultural sector! We have generated more than ?5m of revenue for the Nantais wine industry and have been a formidable communication tool for tourism in a lesser known area! I dare to hope that as a taxpayer in the Loire and Vendée, that my colleagues and cultural peers will not have to face the same wrath of your moralising convictions which, to me, are a barrier to freedom and cultural creativity. It is one of the few remaining cultural jewels in our economic crown that France can be proud of. Throughout its existence, the festival has remained apolitical, yet we are not and have never been fooled by your intentions. An interview in December 2015 on the television channel France 3 confirmed our concerns. You replied in the interview: 'Hellfest? I don't like it...' 'Have you ever been to Hellfest?' 'No, because I don't like it.'

"Easy to see that you would have a hard time convincing many inhabitants that your main priority was to strengthen the partnership with our event, which you see as satanic and violent. So, allow me to reiterate: keep your grant. We who love extreme music have no moral lessons to learn from politicians who have never taken the time to come, see and understand our event for themselves and then try to impose a code of conduct. Wouldn't you agree that it is the organisers and festival-goers to decide what is good and proper for our event of which you know nothing? Wouldn't it be better as elected officials to concentrate on the real problems that eat away at our society rather than to vent your anger on a festival and community of music lovers who, for 3 days, celebrate their passion in peace and harmony; and that almost the entire population of Clisson praises for their respect, politeness and kindness? Madame Garnier, Monsieur Retailleau, you are going the wrong way and I am sad to have to say it, but your political tactics cannot mask the reality of the situation: you simply had to find a pretext with which to put an end to our partnership. One matter of concern on our side, we have been prepared for this since your election. Hellfest is, and will always remain apolitical, pacifistic, and independent. A festival organised BY fans FOR fans that will never cease to make heard the music you deem so diabolical and unsavoury, contrary to all those who have the chance to come and hear it.

"I challenge you to find but one person who has attended our event who is able to prove that our festival incites racial or religious hatred. You would not find a single one, Madame and Monsieur elected officials, once again you are fighting the wrong fight. Madame Garnier, I am aware of your candidacy for the mandate to the city of Nantes; a place dear to my heart, a town of cultural richness I am so proud. I urge you to rethink your position for I would find it hard to bear living (and many Nantais too) in a Nantes with 'selective culture.' May our extinguished grant go to help other dynamic, innovative and creative cultural associations that dare to dream and know when to push the limits of political correctness? BORN TO LOSE, LIVE TO WIN, LONG LIVE ROCK'N'ROLL!

"Ps. Forgiveness and understanding are not only Christian virtues. Those of us passionate about Hellfest and extreme music are also people capable of debating and accepting differences of opinion. The doors of our 'festival of hell' are always open to you, and I remain convinced that our hundreds of thousands of fans would be delighted to show you to what extent our event is just love and fraternity!"

Source: facebook.com
Band profile: Down
Event: Hellfest Open Air 2016
Posted: 11.02.2016 by Bad English


Comments

‹‹ Back to News
Comments: 50   Visited by: 250 users
11.02.2016 - 15:22
qlacs
"The Quaker"
Wow, this was a heartwarming read. Two thumbs up Hellfest!
----
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 15:41
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
People are getting overly reactive over a drunk arm gesture of 2 seconds heh?
Welcome to 2016
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 15:45
corrupt
With a lowercase c
That's a double-edged sword if I've ever seen one. It's a good read and a sane way to react to somthing like this. But on the other hand, Anselmo's behavior isn't tolerable in a culture that he so verbosely describes. Putting them in this position is a clever political move. They had the choice between acting on political behalf (under pressure, even) or risking to be put in a racist corner. Hopefully they'll wait until this matter has settled and then still drop Down from the lineup.
----
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 15:50
HyperDrifter

Quote:
Retailleau said that the city will not promote anything with "incitement to racial or religious hatred."


They have Slayer and Abbath on the lineup yet they call out Anselmo on a drunken outburst? The French government were just looking for any excuse to stop funding.

The world is completely overreacting on this...
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 15:52
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by corrupt on 11.02.2016 at 15:45

Hopefully they'll wait until this matter has settled and then still drop down from the lineup.


I hope so too.
A couple of years ago they dropped Satanic Warhamster for its driving force being a racist/neo-nazi (although he never was as outspoken about it as Phil in interviews and such), so imo they should also drop Down for its mainman being an outspoken racist/neo-nazi. Which Phil has proven to be for at least a couple of decades now.
But the choice lies absolutely by the porganizers and not the authorities, I'd say.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Loading...
11.02.2016 - 16:14
FreddeSwede

As a part time politician, I have to say that I agree with the senators ultimatum. In this time and age, not to mention when I read some of the comments above, it's more important than ever to be very restrictive towards racism and hatred. By all means, pull the plug from Hellfest unless they drop Down from the line-up. There's no excuse for what Phil Anselmo did, and he (Down) should of course pay the consequences for that. Hats off to the politicians in this case.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 16:30
Vombatus
Potorro
20 000 ? is peanuts for a a fest that manages millions. Plus Anselmo isn't anyone for HF, he is there like every single year and always praises the fest. I still think they should drop Down if they want to remain coherent (like they did with Satanic Warmaster) but I doubt they will as the funding has no real impact.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 16:30
Unhealer
Eclecticist
Written by FreddeSwede on 11.02.2016 at 16:14

(...) and he (Down) (...)


There's a problem there, Anselmo is not Down. it's not fair that his bandmates pay for that as well after all the public apologies by Anselmo (remarking that he didn't wish their bandmates to suffer from all the backlash as well) and the other members from Down expressing their discontent with his gesture.
This move would be understandable against a band whose music and imagery promoted racism or hatred, this is not the case at all.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 16:41
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Unhealer on 11.02.2016 at 16:30

Written by FreddeSwede on 11.02.2016 at 16:14

(...) and he (Down) (...)


There's a problem there, Anselmo is not Down. it's not fair that his bandmates pay for that as well after all the public apologies by Anselmo (remarking that he didn't wish their bandmates to suffer from all the backlash as well) and the other members from Down expressing their discontent with his gesture.
This move would be understandable against a band whose music and imagery promoted racism or hatred, this is not the case at all.



The band members have known about Phil's actions over the past 20 years as well and have always turned a blind eye to it up to now.
As for Phil's apologies... they come across extremely insincere.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Loading...
11.02.2016 - 16:47
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Written by Vombatus on 11.02.2016 at 16:30

20 000 ? is peanuts for a a fest that manages millions. Plus Anselmo isn't anyone for HF, he is there like every single year and always praises the fest. I still think they should drop Down if they want to remain coherent (like they did with Satanic Warmaster) but I doubt they will as the funding has no real impact.

20K is what, 125 ticket sales? I doubt they need the subsidiary now in any way.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 17:00
Unhealer
Eclecticist
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.02.2016 at 16:41


The band members have known about Phil's actions over the past 20 years as well and have always turned a blind eye to it up to now.
As for Phil's apologies... they come across extremely insincere.


What other actions from Anselmo? Did he do something like this before? I'm seriously asking because I looked it up and didn't find other testimonies, only people repeating "Yeah, Anselmo is racist, everybody knows that" all over.
If the dude has always been like this I wonder how only after 20 years the guy is getting a backlash. Also, if everybody knew about this then not only Down but festival organizers, labels, distributors, fellow musicians etc. were turning a blind eye on him so far, and are only jumping against him now that the matter is all over the social media and can benefit from going against him, Robb Flynn being a perfect example.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 17:03
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Written by Unhealer on 11.02.2016 at 17:00

What other actions from Anselmo? Did he do something like this before? I'm seriously asking because I looked it up and didn't find other testimonies, only people repeating "Yeah, Anselmo is racist, everybody knows that" all over.
If the dude has always been like this I wonder how only after 20 years the guy is getting a backlash. Also, if everybody knew about this then not only Down but festival organizers, labels, distributors, fellow musicians etc. were turning a blind eye on him so far, and are only jumping against him now that the matter is all over the social media and can benefit from going against him, Robb Flynn being a perfect example.

Just like people pulling the racist Pantera lyrics thing. Ask them to produce examples and people either can't or pull out the most vague songs that could be about anything. Standard Twitter syndrome: everything gets amplified and exaggerated by keyboard warriors. People say "Oh, they've turned a blind eye to it for 20 years." Well, apparently so has everyone else then if it's that common knowledge. Hypocrites. He may be racist, but internet muppets retroactively ascribing racism to everything he's done annoys me.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 17:10
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by Guest on 11.02.2016 at 16:47

20K is what, 125 ticket sales? I doubt they need the subsidiary now in any way.


Yeah, exactly my point. HF has always done very well with close to none government help, and will probably continue to do so.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 17:36
Darkside Momo
Retired
More interesting to see will be how anti-racist punk and hardcore bands like Ludwig Von 88, August Burns Red or Heaven Shall Burn Will react.
The politicians mentioned here are just in the controversy to please their more obtuse, catholic voters. Remember Vendée is really a conservative Catholic bastion in France.
----
My Author's Blog (in French)


"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you"

"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I am awake"
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 18:57
Multipass

This decision comes from the region (Pays de la Loire), which is led by LR (Les Républicains), opposed to the government... So the title is not true !
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 20:26
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Les festivales des Marin le Pen sorry Wrat, Sebastian . typing whit oit spell check francaise ... but seems so
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 20:34
psykometal
A staff guy...
@Joe, Unhealer

If you watched Robb Flynn's video, he even admits that he's witnessed and overheard such sentiments from Phil's mouth numerous times through the years, but always ignored it or brushed it off because "it was Phil, and Phil's a big dude, and Phil's a legend, etc. etc. etc.", but has finally decided to speak up about it.

Just saying.
----
~Zep, Database and Forum Moderation~

Loading...
11.02.2016 - 20:35
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
I wish Jeff was in this site now , since he works there and is there any video new savlible, I hate read so much on PC
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 20:42
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Written by psykometal on 11.02.2016 at 20:34

@Joe, Unhealer

If you watched Robb Flynn's video, he even admits that he's witnessed and overheard such sentiments from Phil's mouth numerous times through the years, but always ignored it or brushed it off because "it was Phil, and Phil's a big dude, and Phil's a legend, etc. etc. etc.", but has finally decided to speak up about it.

Just saying.

He also insisted that Phil was drinking German beer, and that there was no white wine backstage, which turned out to be a total lie. So, yeah.

He decided to speak up about it now because the whole internet kicked up a fuss. What a big brave man. If he had a backbone, or any real principles he would have cut ties with him years ago. If I knew a racist I wouldn't give him / her the time of day.
Loading...
11.02.2016 - 21:36
psykometal
A staff guy...
Written by Guest on 11.02.2016 at 20:42

He also insisted that Phil was drinking German beer, and that there was no white wine backstage, which turned out to be a total lie. So, yeah.
When was that outed as being a lie? I haven't seen that... O_o

Quote:

He decided to speak up about it now because the whole internet kicked up a fuss. What a big brave man. If he had a backbone, or any real principles he would have cut ties with him years ago. If I knew a racist I wouldn't give him / her the time of day.

And I agree, it's kinda fucked that he came out after the fan posted it instead of saying something years ago, or just "unfriending" him in life, but oh well.

The digital age is in fuller effect in 2016.
----
~Zep, Database and Forum Moderation~

Loading...
11.02.2016 - 21:49
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Written by psykometal on 11.02.2016 at 21:36

When was that outed as being a lie? I haven't seen that... O_o


And I agree, it's kinda fucked that he came out after the fan posted it instead of saying something years ago, or just "unfriending" him in life, but oh well.

The digital age is in fuller effect in 2016.


From here:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ex-machine-head-drummer-says-robb-flynn-and-philip-anselmo-are-both-dumbass-self-centered-blowhards/

How balanced it is is anyone's guess, but the fact he condemns both parties makes me think it's probably one of the more reliable sources.

If Phil is as racist as he is, I'm amazed this all hasn't come out earlier in a bigger way. Reminds me of the BBC and others who turned a blind eye to Jimmy Savile's pedo activities for decades. People only care when they have no choice but to, otherwise they can cover it up with a blanket and forget about it. When it does finally all come out everyone jumps in on it and it's impossible to know what's real and what isn't because everyone wants to have a go.
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 00:01
Timelord

So what! He can believe whatever he wants. What bunch of hypocrites! If some gangsta rapper started some anti-white shit not a goddamn thing would be said. Same goes for queers,muslims or whoever it may be. You don't have to like or go see them play. To make this big of a deal is the same ole song and dance by all those shoving tolerance down our throats but are being intolerate themselves.
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 00:02
Spirit of dead

Good post Joe.

This has been blown out of proportion. 20k Euro is nothing for such a big festival.

Hopefully Phil has learned a lesson.

As for Flynn, the guy's always been an attention seeking trendwhore since he started out. Anyone remember his feud with Kerry King from Slayer? It's supported by his band constantly jumping from one trend to another. I think there aren't many people in metal who have craved attention as much as Robb Flynn (or to be fair Phil Anselmo nut at least he is true to his music! ).
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 01:15
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Bad English on 11.02.2016 at 20:35

I wish Jeff was in this site now , since he works there and is there any video new savlible, I hate read so much on PC



Jeff hasn't worked for Hellfest for a long long time.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Loading...
12.02.2016 - 01:28
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.02.2016 at 01:15

Written by Bad English on 11.02.2016 at 20:35

I wish Jeff was in this site now , since he works there and is there any video new savlible, I hate read so much on PC



Jeff hasn't worked for Hellfest for a long long time.


really? I thought he still works there as promoter
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 01:38
Auntie Sahar
Drone Empress
Written by Timelord on 12.02.2016 at 00:01

If some gangsta rapper started some anti-white shit not a goddamn thing would be said

Oh yeah, that classic "if black people do X, no one bats an eye, but if white people do X, everyone loses their minds" argument. Hey, you know why that might be, people not starting as big an uproar over people of color putting out messages that could be construed as anti white as they do over the reverse happening? I dunno, maybe it could have something to do with the fact that, over the past 500 years, there haven't been many examples of societies in which POC have oppressed and persecuted white people, but on the other hand there have been numerous cases of societies in which the whites have been the ones laying the oppression and persecution upon POC. There is simply not a history of societies dominated by POC making life extremely difficult for white people in the manner in which the periods of American slavery and European imperialism saw societies dominated by whites making life extremely difficult for POC.

Maybe that in turn might create an atmosphere today in which comments suggestive of anti-POC, white supremacist beliefs raise more of an eyebrow among people than those suggesting anti-white beliefs. Just a thought.
----
I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the cube in the circle. “Come unto me” is a foolish word: for it is I that go.

~ II. VII
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 01:54
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
State saying what can and can not play... sounds like Kuwait just banned Swallow the cum , sounds like church speaks.
Its up to organizers , not state decide what to do Madmazel Marin le Pen has said more stupid things as Anselmo and keeps saying it and non cares...its up to organizers , but before dropping band, then band all PSG and OL fans from going to footy, since most of their ultras are WP and has done actions what Ansy has not.
Its up from promoters only, not state, next will be we cant attend concert at sunday, we need be in a church

I doubt band will drop out , promoters needs fans and event going unless fans wont vote out, only what FRance can do reject Schengen visa and make sure they wont get in other country, its all what state can do,
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 02:14
Spirit of dead

Written by Auntie Sahar on 12.02.2016 at 01:38

Written by Timelord on 12.02.2016 at 00:01

If some gangsta rapper started some anti-white shit not a goddamn thing would be said

Oh yeah, that classic "if black people do X, no one bats an eye, but if white people do X, everyone loses their minds" argument. Hey, you know why that might be, people not starting as big an uproar over people of color putting out messages that could be construed as anti white as they do over the reverse happening? I dunno, maybe it could have something to do with the fact that, over the past 500 years, there haven't been many examples of societies in which POC have oppressed and persecuted white people, but on the other hand there have been numerous cases of societies in which the whites have been the ones laying the oppression and persecution upon POC. There is simply not a history of societies dominated by POC making life extremely difficult for white people in the manner in which the periods of American slavery and European imperialism saw societies dominated by whites making life extremely difficult for POC.

Maybe that in turn might create an atmosphere today in which comments suggestive of anti-POC, white supremacist beliefs raise more of an eyebrow among people than those suggesting anti-white beliefs. Just a thought.



So 500 years of European political domination means it's ok for "people of colour" to be racist?

It's a poor argument especially as Europeans had a tendency to persecute each other (e.g. the Irish, Jews, Catalans, Protestants, Catholics) and as "People Of Colour" also gladly persecute each other.

Did you know for example that some of main beneficiaries of the African slave trade were African kingdoms ala Benin or Dahomey who could dictate prices for their human cargo? The Ghana and Mali Empires were built on slave trade with Arabs. We remember European slavery cause we're mainly European or live in European societies.

Slavery has been a fact of African life since time immemorial. And it's still common place, especially in countries like Mauritania, Niger and Sudan, despite white people trying to outlaw the practice since 19th century!


Quote:

There is simply not a history of societies dominated by POC making life extremely difficult for white people in the manner in which the periods of American slavery and European imperialism saw societies dominated by whites making life extremely difficult for POC.


Have you ever heard of the Ottoman Empire? Try being a white Christian there. Indeed the term genocide was first used to describe the Ottoman annihilation of Christian Armenians in 1915-18.


Imperialism didn't really change much for your average POC. They lived in abject poverty and under some sort of tyrannical government before whites conquered them and were oppressed and exploited regardless. This stayed the same while whites ruled and continued after the whites left. It doesn't matter if the tyrant was a local king or warlord, a distant emperor, a European power or a general or "democratically elected" leader. It's all the same.

Do you seriously think that the non-European world was some sort of utopia before whites came? It was just as fucked as it always was. War, poverty, hunger and oppression are a way of the world.

The only difference now is some Western European nations and a few ex-British colonies as well as 3-4 Asian states have got a bit more humane in their treatment of people. Rest of the world continues as it's always done.


So black guy singing about hating whites is the same as white guy hating blacks. Nothing justifies hypocrisy.
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 02:31
Auntie Sahar
Drone Empress
Written by Spirit of dead on 12.02.2016 at 02:14

So 500 years of European political domination means it's ok for "people of colour" to be racist?

Yup, nice way of (grossly) oversimplifying and misinterpreting what I was trying to say. That straw man just flushed any prior consideration I may have had about engaging you in debate right down the drain
----
I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the cube in the circle. “Come unto me” is a foolish word: for it is I that go.

~ II. VII
Loading...
12.02.2016 - 03:37
Spirit of dead

Written by Auntie Sahar on 12.02.2016 at 02:31


Yup, nice way of (grossly) oversimplifying and misinterpreting what I was trying to say. That straw man just flushed any prior consideration I may have had about engaging you in debate right down the drain



Actually the oversimplification is exactly what you said. Basically your argument is intolerance is worse when it's by whites because of slavery and imperialism. Ergo non-white intolerance against whites is more acceptable than white intolerance.

And if being persecuted at some point makes your intolerance more acceptable, then all intolerance is acceptable because at some stage all people's were persecuted including lots of white peoples.


According to the values of our modern Western society, intolerance of any sort should be deplored regardless of prior historical context. So rappers singing about "Killing Whitey" is as bad as NSBM/hatecore bands singing about killing blacks.
Loading...

Hits total: 4348 | This month: 12