I mean the education what we recieve in schools. What do you think? IMO education is manipulation, cuz we learn what the government tells us, and the simple fact that sometimes history books are different in countries, makes you think, or not?

Yes, I agree there. Especially in case of History, where not only "History is written by the victors.", but also some parts which could harm the ruling force are being "ignored".
Of course this is just a fraction of the education we receive, but yeah, some manipulation is there.
But then again, the manipulation is everywhere, so that it also appears in schools, is completely natural.

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 13:23

Yes, I agree there. Especially in case of History, where not only "History is written by the victors.", but also some parts which could harm the ruling force are being "ignored".
Of course this is just a fraction of the education we receive, but yeah, some manipulation is there.
But then again, the manipulation is everywhere, so that it also appears in schools, is completely natural.

I agree with all you said and I second it, But i dont see it as natural.
If you seek the truth you will find it.


Saying that Education is manipulation?
Of curse it is...From where do you think you got your morals?
Why do you feel bad if you steal?
because you growd up like that, and
trained to be like that.
Anyways a Society cant exist without a moral system, so if dosent really matter.
If everyoe will chose there own morals then it will be ok to murder.
So morals are determined by logic mostly thes day I think.
Moral changes from era to era age to age and culture to culture.
In some cultures its moral to put down woman in others its not.

Manipulation? Hardly. I suppose that we are manipulated everyday, certain events have an affect on our emotions, as that is the way of human nature. Manipulation it is, as we are being taught new things and information, however I doubt that education in schools is an intentional method of manipulation, which I suppose is what you mean.

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 13:23

But then again, the manipulation is everywhere, so that it also appears in schools, is completely natural.

The thing that manipulation is present in school si natural on some elevl, but I think that it is the most dangerous form of it. I mean children are very naiv when it comes to learning something from their teachors, offcourse this belief is getting weaker every year, I still think that this thing should be monitored, cuz this is one way terrorist are 'made'.

Then how do you propose we educate our children?

Manipulation as in being forced to sing Christian songs and such nonsense when one is still a gullible child, such as is done here in Norway, well THAT certainly is manipulation, or at least attempts at it. I certainly fell for it, but then I became disillusioned as I grew older.

Well here in Norway we learn about how good it is with the oil, how it works wonders for the economy, but not about the pollution it causes, the corruption in oil-producing nations in the fromer USSR, that Norwegian state-run oil-companies are trading with. And neither do we learn much of prosecuted groups such as samis, gypsies and a few others..

What one learns at school is usually not the objective truth, it is a modified truth that leaves out what leaves the nation in a bad light.

@Ridden Disease: Yeah, most likely 'natural' isn't the right word. What I meant is that seeing as manipulation can be found in everyday life, it is to be expected that we'll find it in schools too.

Anyway, eliminating such manipulation would be pretty hard. Teaching altered history is much easier than teaching how to defend against it. But at one point or another one should be taught to question what he's being told. Otherwise we have a lot of grown ups who cannot accept state of facts other than that brought forth by the society. Manipulated to live the way their government wants them to.

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 16:19

Then how do you propose we educate our children?

That's a very hard thing to answer.

Written by Damnated on 25.05.2006 at 17:02

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 16:19

Then how do you propose we educate our children?

That's a very hard thing to answer.

It is. But afterall, it was ye who brought our attention to the topic. Surely you have thoughts on an alternative to school?

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 17:28

Written by Damnated on 25.05.2006 at 17:02

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 16:19

Then how do you propose we educate our children?

That's a very hard thing to answer.

Theres nothing rong with the Idear School..its great actually.
You can just fix it a little bit....

It is. But afterall, it was ye who brought our attention to the topic. Surely you have thoughts on an alternative to school?

Well, yes I do have ideas, but not necesarily alternatives. I'm talking from experince when I'm saying, that every country should adopt a history book, and that should not change, regarding to the past. Also, things should be teached from a subjective point of view, not just the things the current country is proud of, but everithyng. There shouldn't be a version of the truth, just The truth. And I'm just talking about education here, and as I write it down, I really know, that this could never be acheaved by humanity

There is just the truth it's just not what is taught. What our kids learn, in this respect, is an individuals interpratation of the truth.

As for the history book concept; that each country should have thee history book; a document difinitive and unchanged....this is a really good idea. I'm not convinced it is entirely practical, but hey. The ideal is sound, all be it utopian.

Written by Damnated on 25.05.2006 at 15:26

Written by Guest on 25.05.2006 at 13:23

But then again, the manipulation is everywhere, so that it also appears in schools, is completely natural.

The thing that manipulation is present in school si natural on some elevl, but I think that it is the most dangerous form of it. I mean children are very naiv when it comes to learning something from their teachors, offcourse this belief is getting weaker every year, I still think that this thing should be monitored, cuz this is one way terrorist are 'made'.

You aren't the only one, but I think most people here have taken this issue to unnecessary limits. Proposing education and schooling as 'dangerous'? Hah. Laughable really. I don't think you can expect people to believe your opinions when you do not provide reason, especially with such an outlandish statement.
Personally I think this debate is unnecessary, I mean if we are talking about education being manipulative then yes, reasonable to some extent. However since when has education been dangerous? What the hell is so dangerous about sitting in a classroom and learning? Please explain. I know you didn't mean dangerous in a physical sense, but I think your opinions are flawed.

Written by Guest on 26.05.2006 at 10:23

However since when has education been dangerous?

Look up life of such personas as Hitler or Stalin.

Without education , what we shall do ?

I disagree with saying education is a form of manipulation.
With education one can open his/her mind to understand the world we live in. I will never stop learning. My life is a journey for learning new and intersesting things. I'm 28 and i'm still learning about my job.
What's for we live if we cannot learn, we cannot have religion, histroy, and so on

You didn't understood me. If you look at education the way that you can only learn some things, many things, but not everything, then you learn only the things that the gov and ppl who basicly rule you will let you to learn. Isn't this manipulation then?

well the history is told by the winners or/and the ones who have power. so they try to put themselves like the "good guys" or make people know only what they want them to know. i just graduated from high school, and the biggest (and kind of brainwash) subject for me was religion

Education is no form of manipulation. I know things are taught in a certain way, especially in history where everything comes to national pride. Anyway, i believe it is school which teaches us what manipulation is, it helps us recognize it and i don't see how telling me 2+2=4 manipulates me. It forces some widely-accepted opinion on me but then again i have the right to reject it and live with the consequences.

As far as i'm concerned, school taught me to question things and never accept what i'm told for 'the simple truth'. Some biology and a little bit of history have sure showed you all that you have brains to use and what happens if you don't

educuation is just one of the many ways government controls most of us. just because a leader of a certain country (this is an example) doesnt like the leader of another country he has all teacher teach all the kids that their ways and religion is bad and they all grow up hating each other. Just look at Russia and USA

Written by Guest on 05.06.2006 at 01:17

educuation is just one of the many ways government controls most of us. just because a leader of a certain country (this is an example) doesnt like the leader of another country he has all teacher teach all the kids that their ways and religion is bad and they all grow up hating each other. Just look at Russia and USA

Well, you over reacted. Country leaders can not change all that. I mean if it's not about a doctrine or something like that. The thing is that the cold war did not erupt because the two leaders hated each other, there was more then that, much more.

I think that the only real manipulation in education comes in strongly religious countries.
They will surely change everything to fit in with the religious doctrine.

But really once you have learned to read , provided you live in a 'free' country you can learn about anything that you want.
That is education too.

Most of what you learn in life you learn after you leave school .

Written by hanna of steel on 06.06.2006 at 20:22


But really once you have learned to read , provided you live in a 'free' country you can learn about anything that you want.
That is education too.

Most of what you learn in life you learn after you leave school .

That's education . Education is an endless process. It is not a way of manipulation. Education is the key of intelligence and the key of the days after scholl as hanna told here

To quote the very first sentence of this thread:

Quote:
I mean the education what we recieve in schools.

Informal education is kind of off topic here...

Anyway, to provide some information on school manipulation.
Corporations and Schoolss:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/beder/overview.htm
http://www.zenzibar.com/articles/corporatepropaganda.asp
Distortion of History:
http://www3.iath.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Texts/Scholarly/Wolf_Distortion_01.html

This topic actually seems to attract many authors:
http://www.freedom21.com/store-educ.htm

Good things there, thanx Draklar. To avoyd any more confusions, I'm remaking this thread...

In regard to History in schools, you should read a book called "man is the measure" in which in one chapter states that in the people that write the History books cant know all the facts and truths of a war or situation and would place the writer in a position where he/she would have to impose their opinions or assumptions to fill in the gaps of what the history writer would not know...

That sounds pretty logical, but at the same time, as humans, we have the instinct to question and a want to know the whole truth and to do that education would probably be much more expensive with more investigators and researchers finding answers.

In the west bank, most textbooks are pretty biased, misrepresenting Israel and the western world and foreign policies and actual events as well as promoting corrupt palestinean leaders as heros (like arafat).
I remember there was a scandal in Japan where koreans wanted the japs to change their textbooks to inform the Japanese public on the atrocities in WWII.

basically, the writers of history also represent the beliefs of their society and biases are always going to be there, I cannot imagine even a politically correct historybook being 100% accurate and unbiased.

The school is diferent at the vision of everyone, while one country gets more free expression for his students, in other the system is very repressive, i'm agree in the aspect that education is an endless process, but the true is that many of the ideas are in favor to put many kids in a classroom, and introduce them ideas that they can't even make a cuestion, the educaton must be for a person the way to knowledge but in many countries this can't be possible, Now you must have a certificate for get money, even if you're a fuckin' dumb, the certificate makes higher...that's shit, that is because i hate the education, it is for make you enter in a society of materialism and no ideas.

you'll have people who seen programmed to rebel, and who wont trust the system, or more appropriately "The Man". education can be misleading, but in modern countries it shouldnt. i dont feel that my history teacher once forced an opinion on us, he allowed us to discuss things and he gave his own opinions on things, good teachers with no fear are the key to education!

Written by Lupas on 06.06.2006 at 23:27

Written by hanna of steel on 06.06.2006 at 20:22


But really once you have learned to read , provided you live in a 'free' country you can learn about anything that you want.
That is education too.

Most of what you learn in life you learn after you leave school .

That's education . Education is an endless process. It is not a way of manipulation. Education is the key of intelligence and the key of the days after scholl as hanna told here

I agree with this.

I think here in the US, I was taught to think one way in elementary school and by the time I got to high school, I was able to form my own opinions on things and for the most part as I got older, I was told both sides that were pretty much unbiased. If the teacher was biased, then he would say "this is my opinion, you're free to disagree with me." I'm in college now and I noticed that if I don't completely agree with some of my professors, the professor may subconsciously give me a lower grade just because there's a disagreement there. Well, that's only happened once so far but I have heard many stories of this happening to people. For the most part, in my classes, we're allowed to have discussions and debates (I'm assuming this is allowed in most countries) and it's definitely helpful to hear all sides of the issue at hand.

Yeah it's 100% manipulation. I go to a catholic school and the way they teach is totally manipulating, and there is no way you can disagree, if you disagree then they will punish you. When school starts again i am going to wear a T-shirt of To Mega Therion, just for the fuck.