New feature idea: Clubs



Posts: 22   Visited by: 58 users
10.03.2019 - 14:55
Ansercanagicus
This idea comes straight from MyAnimeList. Clubs are just people gathering around a specific idea, and their role is to find good anime albums for the club. Like, "the club of people interested in raw oldschool death metal", "the club of people looking for similar bands as Portal", "the club of people who don't like cheesy power metal", "the club of people who like some sax in their metal"...

- You mean it's a forum thread ? nope. Because the clubs actually have the ability to 'brand' (or 'reward') an album. So people visiting the album page will see: Approved by the club (with a little medal symbol next to it). And if they get acquainted with a club, it could be a great tool for sorting albums they should actually prioritize over other ones. They'd take this brand sign for good advice, or would visit the club's main page with all the pinned albums.

- You mean it's a list ? it is true that lists work the same, since you can create your list of watched albums, and people will see how you ranked it through the album page. But lists are individual, and not collective. And when it comes to actually digging the database to find what albums correspond to the criteria, being on your own can be tedious. Also the purposes of lists are different, people use them for ranking, instead of really highlighting albums for what they are, or for being part of a specific category.

- You mean it's like the staff picks ? Yes, the staff picking stuff is the sole club in action right now. And what do they pick ? things corresponding to the staff's identity - the MS spirit, sort of. But what if we could have several entities doing so ?

Like, right now I've got a serious need for the ability to tell apart albums labeled as avantgarde, but in a "true progressive/experimental" aspect, from albums labeled avantgarde in a "clowny/circus" way. If a club could constituate purposely to highlight one of the two kinds that would be great. I'd like to tell a lot of things apart, but enumerating them can't get things clearer than they already are. I guess a lot of people would also love to have this feature and benefit from it. This will also help people with similar interests to gather, I mean this for newcomers (if there's any) so they could hopefully find their seat, and a lot of great albums to listen to, and be more engaged (?).

I'm quoting the shoutbox: Radup: "But you're not gonna convince any mainstream fan to check out more underground music by telling them that their music and taste sucks"

Maybe this way of creating specific catalogues and links between albums could be more effective and instructive than the usual mainstreams/undergrounds front.

please tell me if you think the idea is worth it, or not, if you have any problems with my presentation or anything to say about it...
EDIT: (forewarning) "Please do not squabble in this thread"
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10.03.2019 - 15:04
Karlabos
Weirdo of MS
That's a great idea
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2016 - 2017
2018 - 2019
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10.03.2019 - 15:20
Starvynth
i c deaf people
Any idea to increase content and encourage participation is a good idea.
Over and above that, your suggestion might help to offer some kind of service comparable sites are (still) lacking.

->

With regard to current shoutbox events, we're in urgent need of a 'LuciferOfGayness recommends music that doesn't suck to people who suck' club anyway.
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10.03.2019 - 17:31
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Starvynth on 10.03.2019 at 15:20



With regard to current shoutbox events, we're in urgent need of a 'LuciferOfGayness recommends music that doesn't suck to people who suck' club anyway.


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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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10.03.2019 - 22:21
LuciferOfGayness
GolemOfWaffles
Written by Starvynth on 10.03.2019 at 15:20

With regard to current shoutbox events, we're in urgent need of a 'LuciferOfGayness recommends music that doesn't suck to people who suck' club anyway.

Thats probably what he meant by this post, but tbh I think people overestimate my taste here.

Still sucking on those lyrics I gave you
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"Every night, full of drugs and liquor, I see, floating above my bed, the Devil.
This woman in white dress, Satan Herself.
She's beautiful. She's there for me. Translucent.
I'm in love with her."
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10.03.2019 - 22:39
RaduP
CertifiedHipster
Written by LuciferOfGayness on 10.03.2019 at 22:21

Written by Starvynth on 10.03.2019 at 15:20

With regard to current shoutbox events, we're in urgent need of a 'LuciferOfGayness recommends music that doesn't suck to people who suck' club anyway.

Thats probably what he meant by this post, but tbh I think people overestimate my taste here.

Still sucking on those lyrics I gave you

Just get a room, you two
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Take off those stupid glasses and kiss me
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10.03.2019 - 23:07
LuciferOfGayness
GolemOfWaffles
Ok, read the initial post and I like it.
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"Every night, full of drugs and liquor, I see, floating above my bed, the Devil.
This woman in white dress, Satan Herself.
She's beautiful. She's there for me. Translucent.
I'm in love with her."
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11.03.2019 - 05:13
HemisphereofWar
I think this is a great idea. I would join metal clubs if they were on the site or something. I also got this same idea a few weeks ago in regards to playing metal vinyl LPs with groups of people. In person, of course, so it's different then an online club in environment, but nonetheless it's a great idea for finding new albums and possibly expanding upon our listening of the albums we already know.

P.S. I'll start the prog/power hybrid club! First album? Tyr's new release Hel.
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See how it sings like a sad heart
And joyously screams out its pain
Sounds that build high like a mountain
Or notes that fall gently, like rain.
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11.03.2019 - 12:25
That's what i'm looking for! "the club of people who like some gay-thing in their metal"

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death to all but science
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11.03.2019 - 12:46
Ansercanagicus
Thank you all for responding, the idea seems to get a very positive feedback. However, for the sake of clarifying things, I must raise some concerns: the club's mission should be somewhat relevant and justify the creation of a club instead of said list or forum thread. Here are some examples of things I'd like not to see (except if a real reason is found to legitimize it):

"albums with Bruce Dickinson"
-> I'm sure all the albums he's involved in are listed on wikipedia

"albums that we, members of the club, do like"
-> you need some directive lines to tell people what you're about, the pinned albums must be objectively tied by some consistent aspect

"hidden gems of [insert genre]"
-> picks will need argumentation explaining how they're "hidden", and how they're "gems"

"underated"/"overrated" stuff
-> ratings should not be taking in account by a club, their observation should be linked to the music. (or the lyrics, or culture, or history, I mean actual substancial things)

...(maybe I'll add more)


What if several clubs compete on the same subject ? it is possible that the concerns of a club meet another one's, but they should differ in a way, and make the difference clear for people to know. If the difference is too faint, those clubs should fusionate.

What if a release that should have been branded by a club but isn't ? people should be able to suggest a club something to examinate. This will make their work even easier. People should also know if an album has already been submitted/rejected (like clubs could positively or negatively brand albums (?).

... I'd say I'm also afraid we (eventually) end up with a lot of one-man clubs (which could not be a problem if they work properly, it's just a bit sad), or inversely hugely populated ones tending to lose integrety. Anyway we're not here yet.
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11.03.2019 - 13:16
Will we have special rules like in a fight club?
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death to all but science
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12.03.2019 - 21:24
DeliciousDishes
I mean this sounds like a great idea, but also a very vague concept imo. I guess from your descriptions I don't really understand how it would make things much better than, say, just asking people or looking at comments/threads/member profiles/suggested bands.

Also you suggested a kind of club badge, but I think the second you join more than one club (which should have to be possible imo, since you want them to be so specific), the band/album site can get super crowded easily. Or someone would have to create a bunch of new pages (at least one thing for every album/band). Which seems like a bunch of work that I'm not sure if anyone will do, especially for some vague worth like clubs.

Maybe I'm just too dumb to see the direct advantage tho :T
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12.03.2019 - 22:13
Ansercanagicus
Written by DeliciousDishes on 12.03.2019 at 21:24

"I don't really understand how it would make things much better than, say, just asking people or looking at comments/threads/member profiles/suggested bands."


This may be true. A lot of features overlap in MS. But looking at comments, asking in a thread, or browsing suggested band do not create an album catalog.

You say that, if one user have a specific demand, he can use all the features said above to find what he was looking for, but if then he doesn't take the time to make a list and tell people: "this is the result of my investigations", the "public-value" of his work is lost (I'm not sure if I'm clear). We'd like to have access to the overview of all his findings.

So yeah, maybe the club idea isn't this much important, although you can see above how some people are interested in its social values, but I'm stressing on the catalog. We should (MS users) be able to set in stone some things, and tell newcomers what the real interesting albums and bands are. And be the garantors of the classics. Begin the work of sorting what should be remembered, talked about and perpetually consulted from what isn't worth it. I think gathering in clubs wan be a solution

Also mind that not having this system will let single users investigate on their own, while they could colaborate and not have to grind in their respective corner.



Written by DeliciousDishes on 12.03.2019 at 21:24

"I think the second you join more than one club (which should have to be possible imo, since you want them to be so specific), the band/album site can get super crowded easily. Or someone would have to create a bunch of new pages (at least one thing for every album/band). Which seems like a bunch of work that I'm not sure if anyone will do, especially for some vague worth like clubs."


I'm not sure to follow you there... Just picture how the "staff picks" already works. One member of the staff (of the club) can pick one album, so it brands it with a little star and a caption "picked by [name of the club]", eventually a short comment is added, and this do not require to create any new page. Except one page for each club, of course, consisting of the description of the club, the members in it, the catalog of picked albums and maybe a sub-forum.

Being in several clubs at a time should definitely be possible.

"An album page could get super crowded easily." I guess yes... I'm not sure if I can correctly imagine the number of clubs possibly existing and the number of times a single album could be picked

... And you know what ? we don't have to implement anything new in fact, we could just make a new forum thread stating the mission of finding albums of a specific kind, recruit people to help that, so they tell us about what they know or begin some MS database speleology. Then have someone taking care of a dedicated list. It would be cool to grant this thread and this list more visibility, like some special design, idk... And *hop* you have a club, that's all. I just want to fusionate those features (forum, list)
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13.03.2019 - 00:08
DeliciousDishes
Written by Ansercanagicus on 12.03.2019 at 22:13

You say that, if one user have a specific demand, he can use all the features said above to find what he was looking for, but if then he doesn't take the time to make a list and tell people: "this is the result of my investigations", the "public-value" of his work is lost (I'm not sure if I'm clear). We'd like to have access to the overview of all his findings.

[...]

Also mind that not having this system will let single users investigate on their own, while they could colaborate and not have to grind in their respective corner.


But that would be what happens in a thread. The distinction to a club here is superficial imo.
You brought up social aspects, which I am the worst person to judge on so I guess that could be a point.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 12.03.2019 at 22:13

I'm not sure to follow you there... Just picture how the "staff picks" already works. One member of the staff (of the club) can pick one album, so it brands it with a little star and a caption "picked by [name of the club]", eventually a short comment is added, and this do not require to create any new page. Except one page for each club, of course, consisting of the description of the club, the members in it, the catalog of picked albums and maybe a sub-forum.

Yeah but I can't see staff picks on the band's page for example. So I would have to check every album page for the band first. Or a list of all the club picks, which would get too crowded after like a month already. If you wanna do a gold star beside the album or something, we get to the issue of multiple clubs again.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 12.03.2019 at 22:13

... And you know what ? we don't have to implement anything new in fact, we could just make a new forum thread stating the mission of finding albums of a specific kind, recruit people to help that, so they tell us about what they know or begin some MS database speleology. Then have someone taking care of a dedicated list. It would be cool to grant this thread and this list more visibility, like some special design, idk... And *hop* you have a club, that's all. I just want to fusionate those features (forum, list)

yeah ofc, I'm just brainstorming possible problems because that's the only thing I'm good at
There's nothing to be said against more features, generally (if they're optional). Just wondering if it's really worth the trouble of implementing it for the guy who runs the site.
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13.03.2019 - 00:59
Ansercanagicus
Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 00:08

Written by Ansercanagicus on 12.03.2019 at 22:13

You say that, if one user have a specific demand, he can use all the features said above to find what he was looking for, but if then he doesn't take the time to make a list and tell people: "this is the result of my investigations", the "public-value" of his work is lost (I'm not sure if I'm clear). We'd like to have access to the overview of all his findings.

[...]

Also mind that not having this system will let single users investigate on their own, while they could colaborate and not have to grind in their respective corner.


But that would be what happens in a thread. The distinction to a club here is superficial imo.


Yeah but imagine new people with a similar demand. They will either:
- start a new thread that is a duplicate
- or have to browse all the threads, find the one of interest, read it from start to finish, and if the person who started it was satisfied with what he had and left the thread inactive then it's not up to date.

You are absolutely right when you say that what you could do with clubs, you can do with threads, but I just wish to give it a special format, so the thread isn't just a thread, and is linked to a bunch of albums and the other way around. It's just a matter of making things a tad more efficient, and also more lasting.



Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 00:08

Yeah but I can't see staff picks on the band's page for example. So I would have to check every album page for the band first. Or a list of all the club picks, which would get too crowded after like a month already. If you wanna do a gold star beside the album or something, we get to the issue of multiple clubs again.


I'm still not following you. :/ "So I would have to check every album page for the band first". In order to do what ?
You mean you want to pick a band as a whole ? I'm merely talking about pick albums for now.

I'll to re-explain.

Any user could go on a club's page to see the list of albums picked by the club. Any user could go on the album page to see which clubs have picked it. If you dread having a whole column of stars below the album, maybe there could be a hide/show option.

But although you try to anticipate such problems, I don't think they will happen, since the clubs need to be specific. Do you know albums which have enough intricacies to be picked by a dozen of different clubs, hence for a dozen of different reasons ?
(I'd like to convince myself this way, but yeah, it might be an issue)

If I answered off the mark, please correct me, but I don't see what problem you want to address
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13.03.2019 - 01:33
DeliciousDishes
Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59

- start a new thread that is a duplicate

Also could be done with groups, no?

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59
- or have to browse all the threads, find the one of interest, read it from start to finish, and if the person who started it was satisfied with what he had and left the thread inactive then it's not up to date.


same with groups. And can't people continue a thread even though the OP doesn't respond anymore? Not too familiar with forum rules here.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59

You are absolutely right when you say that what you could do with clubs, you can do with threads, but I just wish to give it a special format, so the thread isn't just a thread, and is linked to a bunch of albums and the other way around. It's just a matter of making things a tad more efficient, and also more lasting.


I guess this, yeah.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59

I'm still not following you. :/ "So I would have to check every album page for the band first". In order to do what ?


In order to see if a band has an album that fits a group on the band page. On the album page this is not really an issue, you could just toggle it and have tons of stuff there. But if I'm browsing band pages and I'd like to know if a band has an album picked by my club, then I'd have to check all the album pages (or my club page and scroll through all albums? If there is no search function that is). For bands like Nadja this becomes silly. And I think a club thing should cover this, no?

I mean if you want to leave it out, that's the biggest problem gone. But would also reduce efficiency and maybe lead to multiple albums per artist and all that.
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13.03.2019 - 01:57
Ansercanagicus
Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 01:33

if I'm browsing band pages and I'd like to know if a band has an album picked by my club


-> go to the club's page with all picks, "ctrl+f" in browser, "Nadja" (or "Buckethead" if you wish). That should make it.
If there's like several pages of picks ("" if ""), make a searchbox, or at least "sort by = date/band"

Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 01:33

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59

- start a new thread that is a duplicate

Also could be done with groups, no?


It could happen, but it shouldn't. The idea is that people interested in something will join the corresponding club, or create their only if it doesn't exist yet. We didn't discuss how clubs would form, but it should not be the work of one person dropping by. It should be the work of several persons, discussing what albums should be approved or not, and act as "competent authority" on the subject. A lobby (?) let's say a club.

More practically, maybe someone who wants to create a club would have to present his project and recruit people as a first step through the forum, and then be granted the ability to constituate as a club. If his idea is not relevant enough, or if it's a duplicate, the thread would be closed.
Maybe that's why in my mind I imagine less clubs than you do, they're not meant to be one per user

Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 01:33

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 00:59

- or have to browse all the threads, find the one of interest, read it from start to finish, and if the person who started it was satisfied with what he had and left the thread inactive then it's not up to date.


same with groups. And can't people continue a thread even though the OP doesn't respond anymore? Not too familiar with forum rules here.


Ok, a club could go inactive, but... a concise list of all picked albums will remain, instead of pages and pages of forum. People can continue an old thread yes. I told that what I'd call "club activty" is totally possible in a thread, and that I'd just like to give it another status and more tools
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13.03.2019 - 11:53
DeliciousDishes
Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 01:57

-> go to the club's page with all picks, "ctrl+f" in browser, "Nadja" (or "Buckethead" if you wish). That should make it.
If there's like several pages of picks ("" if ""), make a searchbox, or at least "sort by = date/band"

yeah then we need a good search option, then sure. We don't really have one yet though. And it kind of defeats the purpose of it being very convenient ("wondering about this band whose profile I'M on rn, let me hit another tab, go to my club, search and then maybe find stuff"), but yeah I guess some convenience is better than nothing.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 13.03.2019 at 01:57

More practically, maybe someone who wants to create a club would have to present his project and recruit people as a first step through the forum, and then be granted the ability to constituate as a club. If his idea is not relevant enough, or if it's a duplicate, the thread would be closed.
Maybe that's why in my mind I imagine less clubs than you do, they're not meant to be one per user

I this recruitment step is pretty important probably, as even a few people could start clubs without knowing about them already existing.
Given the variety of metal music, you can be sure there will be more than a few clubs I'd say.

Not really worth continuing to argue now, we'll see how things work out when they are established.
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13.03.2019 - 12:41
Ansercanagicus
Written by DeliciousDishes on 13.03.2019 at 11:53

("wondering about this band whose profile I'M on rn, let me hit another tab, go to my club, search and then maybe find stuff")


I swear that's convenient enough for me. Like you said, displaying the stars on the band page will lead to a nonsensical mess.
What could the other options be ?
- The actual feature of "following" a club activty, so only the "followed" clubs are in display ?
- just opening the Discography page for a band, and scroll it (or crtl+f the club name)
... (more ideas ?)
I mean anyway those bands are exceptions, most of the time a band's discopgraphy won't exceed 30 studio albums.

Untill now we've discussed the possible answers to the question "has this band an album in this club ?", but maybe it starts to get out of hand with "has this band albums picked by some of theSe clubS". Then yes, people would have to make a custom search for each album AND for each club, that's not convenient at all. ... And we come back to your initial thoughts, one of the solution can be creating a new page for each band
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14.03.2019 - 12:10
Starvynth
i c deaf people
...and without you even having realized it, the first club has already been established:
it's a debating club and it consists of two members.

Seriously, I still like your idea and I guess it's about time to go one step ahead.
Basically, there are two options:

A) make it BIG, including your ideas of
- new club badges
- the possible need of exclusive chat rooms/threads for club members only
- the option to build and join a particular club
- club picks on album pages
- etc.

B) starting off with a test phase, using the site's features that are already there, like
- polls
- threads
- lists

I understand that the staff has not been asked yet for support or general technical issues concerning the theoretical and practical possibilities of site updates, right?
Besides, I strongly believe that there is a need to launch some test phase anyway. So far, nobody can predict how well a club idea will be received by the community. Without participation, the idea is doomed to fail and any programming efforts are a waste of time and capacities.

I'd suggest to begin with B) and think about some rules and a 'corporate identity' for all club activities (thread headlines, club names, etc.). Parallel thereto, get in contact with the staff in order to find out whether or not A) is within the framework of the site's possibilities and the staff's intentions.
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14.03.2019 - 13:23
Ansercanagicus
Written by Starvynth on 14.03.2019 at 12:10

- the possible need of exclusive chat rooms/threads for club members only


what ? I don't see the point of that and I'm sure that's not "within the framework of the site's possibilities and the staff's intentions"
I you really want such a feature we could just create a discord server without charging the admins with extra work. But I'm not sure that being opaque is a good thing.

Written by Starvynth on 14.03.2019 at 12:10

B) starting off with a test phase, using the site's features that are already there, like
- polls
- threads
- lists


we should do this, since I explained how a club would almost exactly be like having a thread+list. A test phase would reveal some problems we haven't thought of yet... But of course we won't be able to predict what could happen on a very large scale. Let's just see how to make things right with the club activities and visibilty, how to nominate albums, recruit members, what rules should apply etc...
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14.03.2019 - 14:15
Starvynth
i c deaf people
Written by Ansercanagicus on 14.03.2019 at 13:23

But I'm not sure that being opaque is a good thing.

Me, neither. That's why I said 'the possible need'.
Operating 'secretly' offers two advantages, though:
- you will not flood the 'new posts' stream
- people following club discussions will most probably not feel very obliged to still their curiosity by looking at the results (lists, picks, whatever), they already know the results before them being published. I think this somehow renders a large proportion of the club idea unnecessary.

Written by Ansercanagicus on 14.03.2019 at 13:23

Let's just see how to make things right with the club activities and visibilty, how to nominate albums, recruit members, what rules should apply etc...

Just some brainstorming:

- open a thread entitled 'CLUB: Best Blackened Bulgarian Viking Themed Rap Metal Of The Late 70's Featuring Harps And Trumpets'
(or whatever first club idea you're up to)
- first topic: goal of the club + list of its members (updated whenever someone wants to join)
- suggest an album*
- suggest more albums and collect opinions*
- publish a list called 'CLUB: Best Blackened....'
- ask club members to upvote the list to initiate some recognition (I hope that won't clash with the site's definition of 'rating abuse')

* you don't even need an official poll to do so. Just start with an initial post like "album title - Yes: 1 No: 0" and club members can upvote/downvote by quoting the post ("album title - Yes: 2 No: 0"). The advantage is that everything would stay inside of the club (the thread) and you wouldn't flood the site with polls that are intended for club members, only. You can't restrict polls to a certain groub of people, anyway.
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