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The original post

Posted by on 19.06.2007 at 23:17
I have been trying to get some vocals sort of between Vader and Meshuggah but i cant do it and if i do i cant keep it up for long, any tips on how to scream/growl like this would be greatly appreciated.



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ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  13.10.2011 at 13:50
Written by Sido on 12.10.2011 at 22:51

Hey saw thjis thread read most of it, very helpful guys! Anyways I started practicing growling maybe a few months ago and thought I got a good sound, I use my diafragm and my throat doesn't hurt, but the thing is that I get this vibration when I growl which isn't supposed to happen, any tips?

give more details about that vibration...but its maybe the consequence of you pushing the air too hard from your lungs ...
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Sido

Posts: 4
From: Canada

  13.10.2011 at 19:38
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 13.10.2011 at 13:50

Written by Sido on 12.10.2011 at 22:51

Hey saw thjis thread read most of it, very helpful guys! Anyways I started practicing growling maybe a few months ago and thought I got a good sound, I use my diafragm and my throat doesn't hurt, but the thing is that I get this vibration when I growl which isn't supposed to happen, any tips?

give more details about that vibration...but its maybe the consequence of you pushing the air too hard from your lungs ...


It might be it, it's kind of a gurgling or trembling sound that I would say comes from the lower parts of my throat, resembling literal growling (like a dog and such).
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  13.10.2011 at 23:17
Written by Sido on 13.10.2011 at 19:38

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 13.10.2011 at 13:50

Written by Sido on 12.10.2011 at 22:51

Hey saw thjis thread read most of it, very helpful guys! Anyways I started practicing growling maybe a few months ago and thought I got a good sound, I use my diafragm and my throat doesn't hurt, but the thing is that I get this vibration when I growl which isn't supposed to happen, any tips?

give more details about that vibration...but its maybe the consequence of you pushing the air too hard from your lungs ...


It might be it, it's kind of a gurgling or trembling sound that I would say comes from the lower parts of my throat, resembling literal growling (like a dog and such).

you are exhaling too much air most likely ...do a little experiment and reduce the amount of air you exhale and try to produce growls in upper parts of your throat because that low throat growls can fuck up yours vocal cords.You see even those low growls are produced in upper part of throat,those low part growls are easy to make but they do a damage to your vocal cords.I think that some vocal tips on www.angelagossow.com cover this stuff.
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Sido

Posts: 4
From: Canada

  14.10.2011 at 01:50
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 13.10.2011 at 23:17

Written by Sido on 13.10.2011 at 19:38

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 13.10.2011 at 13:50

Written by Sido on 12.10.2011 at 22:51

Hey saw thjis thread read most of it, very helpful guys! Anyways I started practicing growling maybe a few months ago and thought I got a good sound, I use my diafragm and my throat doesn't hurt, but the thing is that I get this vibration when I growl which isn't supposed to happen, any tips?

give more details about that vibration...but its maybe the consequence of you pushing the air too hard from your lungs ...


It might be it, it's kind of a gurgling or trembling sound that I would say comes from the lower parts of my throat, resembling literal growling (like a dog and such).

you are exhaling too much air most likely ...do a little experiment and reduce the amount of air you exhale and try to produce growls in upper parts of your throat because that low throat growls can fuck up yours vocal cords.You see even those low growls are produced in upper part of throat,those low part growls are easy to make but they do a damage to your vocal cords.I think that some vocal tips on www.angelagossow.com cover this stuff.


Yea quite helpful, I think I'm going to follow the tip I'm seeing everywhere, and spend a few buck on singing lessons
moe5512

Posts: 405

Age: 20
From: Finland

  24.10.2011 at 23:18
I sometimes get hickups when I growl and for some reason always with my band (maybe I use a different technique?) Why do I get them and what should I do to prevent them?
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  25.10.2011 at 12:40
Written by moe5512 on 24.10.2011 at 23:18

I sometimes get hickups when I growl and for some reason always with my band (maybe I use a different technique?) Why do I get them and what should I do to prevent them?

you may just get stage fright when you are with a band?
I have never encountered hickups but i did sometimes (rarely ) pushed air trough my throat so hard that it almost made me throw up.Maybe its the same with you.
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
moe5512

Posts: 405

Age: 20
From: Finland

  25.10.2011 at 13:45
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 25.10.2011 at 12:40

Written by moe5512 on 24.10.2011 at 23:18

I sometimes get hickups when I growl and for some reason always with my band (maybe I use a different technique?) Why do I get them and what should I do to prevent them?

you may just get stage fright when you are with a band?
I have never encountered hickups but i did sometimes (rarely ) pushed air trough my throat so hard that it almost made me throw up.Maybe its the same with you.

Actually it's easier for me to growl and sing clean when I'm around people lol, I can somehow sing out louder and more controlled...until the hickups but it can be the fact that I push the air out too hard so I'm gonna try to fix that! thanks for answering!
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  25.10.2011 at 14:46
Written by moe5512 on 25.10.2011 at 13:45

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 25.10.2011 at 12:40

Written by moe5512 on 24.10.2011 at 23:18

I sometimes get hickups when I growl and for some reason always with my band (maybe I use a different technique?) Why do I get them and what should I do to prevent them?

you may just get stage fright when you are with a band?
I have never encountered hickups but i did sometimes (rarely ) pushed air trough my throat so hard that it almost made me throw up.Maybe its the same with you.

Actually it's easier for me to growl and sing clean when I'm around people lol, I can somehow sing out louder and more controlled...until the hickups but it can be the fact that I push the air out too hard so I'm gonna try to fix that! thanks for answering!

i am glad i can help!
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
SSM
Abandoned

Posts: 208
From: Iran

  02.02.2012 at 02:10
Some tips I learned from my vocal coaches and my personal experience:

- Drink 9 or more glasses of water per day (1 glass of water = 250 ml)
Try to use only room-temperature water, not cold or hot water.
Never drink cold water during performance or practice sessions.
[Note: Milk, Beers, Juices and other drinks are different from water.]

- Sleep 8 hours properly per 24 hours. [Note: Don't use any kind of drugs to sleep.]

- Don't smoke. Smoking will dehydrate your vocal cords and it'll decrease your lung capacity.
Smoking causes surface irritation which can lead to chronic inflammation,
it can alter the shape, elasticity and viscosity of the tissue.
When you smoke, maybe it sounds better for a song, but you won't last for a live performance.

- Don't drink alcohol before practice or performance.
One or two shots to warm up before a show might be alright,
but hard alcohol? No. Alcohol has the effect of drying out your cords.
If you go out and drink regularly, once or twice a week, make sure to drink gulps of water after you drink.
This will help prevent damage. As an added effect you won't wake up with a hangover.

- Always warm up before practice or performances.
If you don't believe in warming up before screaming and growling, just do it once.
You'll be surprised to see how well you can control your voice after warming up.
[Note: Vocal warm up consists of some special exercises which will warm up your vocal cords
and will lower the stress in your cords. If you don't know what they are,
buy a normal vocal practice CD or vocal warm up CD and start with them.]

- Don't push. Start with simple, slow and moderate things.
Don't just growl/scream as loud as you can for the first time, loudness is not important.
You should learn it correct, then think about loudness.
As a guitarist first learn the music and memorize it, then try to play it as fast as he/she can.

- Stand and breathe properly. When you breathe, your chest and rib cage should stand still.
The belly is where you should feel the action.
Actually, you should breathe using your abdominal muscles, sides and back.
Don't hold your tummy in, you need to allow it to expand on the inhale and contract as needed on the exhale
[Note: This won't give you a big stomach and this is how to use diaphragm to breathe.]
Remember, when you're growling and screaming (or even singing), your chest and rib cage should stand still.
Additionally, always stand correctly. If you don't stand correctly, you can't breathe correctly.
As you look straight ahead, you should feel like you could look someone in your own height, right in the eyes.


Thank you all for your patience.
BoxCar Willy
John Doe

Posts: 6853

Age: 17
From: Canada

  03.02.2012 at 02:52
Written by SSM on 02.02.2012 at 02:10

Some tips I learned from my vocal coaches and my personal experience:

- Drink 9 or more glasses of water per day (1 glass of water = 250 ml)
Try to use only room-temperature water, not cold or hot water.
Never drink cold water during performance or practice sessions.
[Note: Milk, Beers, Juices and other drinks are different from water.]

- Sleep 8 hours properly per 24 hours. [Note: Don't use any kind of drugs to sleep.]

- Don't smoke. Smoking will dehydrate your vocal cords and it'll decrease your lung capacity.
Smoking causes surface irritation which can lead to chronic inflammation,
it can alter the shape, elasticity and viscosity of the tissue.
When you smoke, maybe it sounds better for a song, but you won't last for a live performance.

- Don't drink alcohol before practice or performance.
One or two shots to warm up before a show might be alright,
but hard alcohol? No. Alcohol has the effect of drying out your cords.
If you go out and drink regularly, once or twice a week, make sure to drink gulps of water after you drink.
This will help prevent damage. As an added effect you won't wake up with a hangover.

- Always warm up before practice or performances.
If you don't believe in warming up before screaming and growling, just do it once.
You'll be surprised to see how well you can control your voice after warming up.
[Note: Vocal warm up consists of some special exercises which will warm up your vocal cords
and will lower the stress in your cords. If you don't know what they are,
buy a normal vocal practice CD or vocal warm up CD and start with them.]

- Don't push. Start with simple, slow and moderate things.
Don't just growl/scream as loud as you can for the first time, loudness is not important.
You should learn it correct, then think about loudness.
As a guitarist first learn the music and memorize it, then try to play it as fast as he/she can.

- Stand and breathe properly. When you breathe, your chest and rib cage should stand still.
The belly is where you should feel the action.
Actually, you should breathe using your abdominal muscles, sides and back.
Don't hold your tummy in, you need to allow it to expand on the inhale and contract as needed on the exhale
[Note: This won't give you a big stomach and this is how to use diaphragm to breathe.]
Remember, when you're growling and screaming (or even singing), your chest and rib cage should stand still.
Additionally, always stand correctly. If you don't stand correctly, you can't breathe correctly.
As you look straight ahead, you should feel like you could look someone in your own height, right in the eyes.


Thank you all for your patience.

Thanks, I'm going to try this out. I have really bad vocals. I need to practice more.
----
Pop punk crusader
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  03.02.2012 at 14:10
@SSM it seems like you've just copied Angela's vocal tips,didn't you?
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
SSM
Abandoned

Posts: 208
From: Iran

  03.02.2012 at 14:23
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 14:10

@SSM it seems like you've just copied Angela's vocal tips,didn't you?


Actually no, I didn't read Angela's tips.
These are just the basics, so maybe they are the same.
(You mean Angela Gossow, Arch Enemy, right?)

Quote:

Thanks, I'm going to try this out. I have really bad vocals. I need to practice more.


ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  03.02.2012 at 16:00
Yeah i meant Angela Gossow ... well i know that are the basis but the text itself is similar to Angela's tips.
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3376

Age: 24
From: India

  05.02.2012 at 20:32
If you really wanna go for screaming stuff...i suggest to start clicking videos of George Corpsegrinder(Cannibal Corpse),Corey Taylor( Sliipknot), Chad Gray( Mudvayne)...follows up!

They just don't give you a video of screaming but they will help you out with a process of "how to do it"?. Shit, I've seen somewhere on youtube....arrgh! you need to fetch it out.
----
Grody2themax

Posts: 240

Age: 22
From: USA

  07.02.2012 at 02:36
Everyone will say things like, use your diaphragm. But...thats sort of shit advice to a nooby. Your voice is one of those things that happens naturally and its hard to consciously try to use a different area to produce sounds. Basically, you don't want to be screaming your head off, it needs to be controlled and I think naturally you will end up growling out of your diaphragm.

I'd suggest practicing while nobody is home or in the car by yourself to your favorite songs. Doing it by yourself is nice so you don't sound like an idiot because it will take a little time before you get to sounding somewhat legit.

Drink a lot of water, make sure you've eaten food (but not too much), and standing upright helps. Also, you may notice yourself getting lightheaded. If this happens you just need to learn how to more efficiently use oxygen to growl. As time goes on, it won't take as much effort to produce a louder and more diverse sound as it used to be.

Finally, don't listen to those deathcore kids on the internet telling people how to exhale and inhale properly, unless you want to sound like a derivative of every deathcore vocalist. Just learn the old fashioned way, like pretty much every death/black/thrash singer did, which is to just try to do it and you'll figure it out. This will also help you develop your own unique voice as well.
BoxCar Willy
John Doe

Posts: 6853

Age: 17
From: Canada

  07.02.2012 at 03:59
Written by Grody2themax on 07.02.2012 at 02:36

This will also help you develop your own unique voice as well.

This is more important than you might think, I often find myself trying to sound Exactly like a vocalist, find you own style.
----
Pop punk crusader
Grody2themax

Posts: 240

Age: 22
From: USA

  07.02.2012 at 05:14
Written by BoxCar Willy on 07.02.2012 at 03:59

This is more important than you might think, I often find myself trying to sound Exactly like a vocalist, find you own style.


It is important to have your own sound I think. But, at the same time I'm never disappointed at all when a hear a vocalist taking influence from later era Death or Mikeal Akerfeldt growls for example. Its not bad to try to sound like someone else or utilize techniques. I've taken a lot of conscious influence from the way Exhumed does their vocals for example.

If you're gonna take influence from a singer, take their dynamic ideas instead of trying to full out copy their voice. For example, high pitched shrieks followed by very low pitched grunts like Exhumed does a lot.
SSM
Abandoned

Posts: 208
From: Iran

  16.02.2012 at 02:20
Written by Grody2themax on 07.02.2012 at 02:36

Everyone will say things like, use your diaphragm. But...thats sort of shit advice to a nooby. Your voice is one of those things that happens naturally and its hard to consciously try to use a different area to produce sounds. Basically, you don't want to be screaming your head off, it needs to be controlled and I think naturally you will end up growling out of your diaphragm.

I'd suggest practicing while nobody is home or in the car by yourself to your favorite songs. Doing it by yourself is nice so you don't sound like an idiot because it will take a little time before you get to sounding somewhat legit.

Drink a lot of water, make sure you've eaten food (but not too much), and standing upright helps. Also, you may notice yourself getting lightheaded. If this happens you just need to learn how to more efficiently use oxygen to growl. As time goes on, it won't take as much effort to produce a louder and more diverse sound as it used to be.

Finally, don't listen to those deathcore kids on the internet telling people how to exhale and inhale properly, unless you want to sound like a derivative of every deathcore vocalist. Just learn the old fashioned way, like pretty much every death/black/thrash singer did, which is to just try to do it and you'll figure it out. This will also help you develop your own unique voice as well.



The very first time I did it, I was just using my throat to get the sound.
The sound wasn't awful, but I couldn't scream/growl for too long and after all it hurts.
I was out of breath for next words and many more problems to come...
It's not about using the diaphragm or exhale and inhale things, it's all about muscle memory IMO.
When you scream/growl the right way, with good technique,
you just get used to it and there's no need to focus on these things anymore.
Just like a professional bodybuilder who doesn't think about "how to do the biceps exercise" anymore.

Additionally, I agree with you about deathcore kids somehow.


Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 16:00

Yeah i meant Angela Gossow ... well i know that are the basis but the text itself is similar to Angela's tips.


I just read them... not really that similar in the text and words.
Anyway, the ENT thing she said is interesting. I should give it a try.
Thrashette

Posts: 608

Age: 22
From: Canada

  11.04.2012 at 05:07
I have to say playing a woodwind or brass instrument definately helps with learning the proper way to use your diaphragm and controlling your breath. I've always been shit at clean vocals, but death metal vocals came pretty easily to me. I had played clarinet for a good 6-7 years before attempting death metal vocals, so I already knew how to use my diaphragm, had great lung capacity for someone my size, and had good control over my breathing. Using your diaphragm is very important, otherwise you'll end up forcing out the growl from your throat and it will fuck up your voice. My main challenge was figuring out how to use my vocal chords properly and developing that muscle memory.

One thing I've noticed is that my throat gets hot and dry really fast, so I have to drink water every 5-10 mins or so (room temp or warmer, since cold water will hurt like a bitch). I think this is normal though. At least I won't have to worry about dehydration... I noticed some people earlier in this thread said that milk helps by producing phlegm in the throat, but I personally find it more detrimental and annoying. I don't think fruit juices and carbonated beverages feel very nice before/after/during death metal vocals either. I just stick to water before/during and tea after...

My advice to you guys is to do a combination of singing along and singing without music. I notice that when I sing along, I try to mimic the vocalist. This is a great exercise and will help you gain control over your vocal chords and figure out what you're capable of by challenging you. Singing on your own is important to help you develop your own voice and be creative rather than being limitted by following someone else's style. This is a lot of fun to do with songs that originally have clean vocals, since you can get creative and do whatever you want with it.
Fritillaria
Evil Butterfly

Posts: 1095


  20.04.2014 at 17:54
I never run out of breath for growling, I can easily do growls for more than 3 hours without even feeling hurt, it's just that I get tired, but I never any kind of hurt in my throat except I feel tense around my belly.

the only thing that keep telling me I'm messing is rhythm and I have no idea how to fix it !

And yeah never ever drink milk before after or during your vocal rehearsals, don't drink fruit juices either, only warm water is good for drinking.
----
Soundtrack of my life : Evil Dead
"He replies that he is stronger than the wolves, because he stands alone."
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 2785

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  20.04.2014 at 22:59
Written by Fritillaria on 20.04.2014 at 17:54

And yeah never ever drink milk before after or during your vocal rehearsals, don't drink fruit juices either, only warm water is good for drinking.

drink acid! be b00tal !:D seriously i find beer (lukewarm one ) good for that stuff...
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Fritillaria
Evil Butterfly

Posts: 1095


  21.04.2014 at 09:43
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 20.04.2014 at 22:59

drink acid! be b00tal !:D


Haha no thanks I don't like it, it's too fruity for my taste.
----
Soundtrack of my life : Evil Dead
"He replies that he is stronger than the wolves, because he stands alone."

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