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John Barleycorn
Minimalist

Posts: 1726

Age: 28
From: Estonia

  29.05.2006 at 19:32
Probably most of my favourite metal bands at the moment come from this so called "alternative metal", for example Sleep, Tool, Om, Burst, Jesu, Kyuss, Isis, Boris etc. Stoner, industrial, avantgarde - all these are wonderful styles of music which I myself prefer to power, heavy, thrash or progressive, for example. But I didn´t want to claim which genre is the best, I am just wondering why the alternative metal bands get so little attention here. Or am I delirious?
jupitreas
Djerk

Posts: 6516
From: Poland

  29.05.2006 at 19:51
Well, we are on a website which has Alexi Laiho in the logo... Its no wonder that most of the people here are fans of various forms of conventional and/or traditional metal. Personally, I am just like you, I find most 'normal' metal terribly boring (power chords get old pretty fast!).
Lokomotiv
Übermensch

Posts: 4548

Age: 30
From: Chile

  29.05.2006 at 20:24
Well, I consider myself a weird breed of Metalhead, because although I certainyl prefer genres like Black or Doom Metal (and in both I'm rather conservative), and with few exceptions can't stand Death, Power, Heavy etc, I'm really addicted to "alternative" Metal (I hate to use that term because it includes bands that have nothing to do with each other), and bands like Neurosis, Oxbow, 5ive, Jesu, Ministry or Godflesh are among my all times favourite... I also like a lot Nu-Metal and Metalcore actually, and I would even say that my favourite 2006 album fo far is 36 Crazyfists - "Rest Inside The Flames", which is Nu Metal...

I agree with Jupitreas that you can't expect passion for alternative Metal in a website that is much focused on the traditional branches of the genre (and I actually like it that way, or it would change into an absolutely different concept).
Twilight
IntepridTraveler

Posts: 1161
From: The Netherlands

  29.05.2006 at 20:26
Yeah... It sucks to have your favorite alternative metal bands bashed in the ground here, just because a lot of people think it's not true metal. It's silly.

I like a lot of alternative bands. Also some bands that aren't even metal at all. So uku, you're not the only one.
----
And when our eyes will meet there
We will recognize nothing's wrong
John Barleycorn
Minimalist

Posts: 1726

Age: 28
From: Estonia

  29.05.2006 at 20:35
Well, maybe I am just disappointed to see so few comments in my awesome threads about Om and Sleep Anyway, I like this site very much but I really can´t connect to the music taste most of the people have here.
Twilight
IntepridTraveler

Posts: 1161
From: The Netherlands

  29.05.2006 at 20:38
I'll try some of Sleep then.

I'm not really into Stoner, but I've heard Neurosis and that wasn't bad at all. But for some reason I didn't listen to it that much.
----
And when our eyes will meet there
We will recognize nothing's wrong
GT
Coffee!!

Posts: 5058

Age: 32
From: Denmark

  29.05.2006 at 20:46
Have also been wondering about the lack of activity in here. I'm a big fan of Rammstein and Oomph! but they are almost the only bands I know belonging in this forum. Heard Tool once but found it rather boring. And I agree with Jupitreas. The focus of the site is in other genres and therefore it's only the few that like more than one who come here.
----


Dreams are made so we don't get bored when we sleep
Lucas
Mr. Noise

Posts: 13423

Age: 23
From: The Netherlands

  29.05.2006 at 20:54
Mostly because it sounds too commercial. Damn, I'm gonna get killed for saying that. I better delete it.

No, I hate bands suchs as Slipknot and Korn, but I know you don't mean those with ''Alternative". Well, at least more than those too.

To answer your question, I have NO idea. Maybe because it doesn't sound extreme enough for me, or just because it is not my taste?
----
SLUDGE. DOOM. DEATH. Wait, what?

"The reason I'm running for president is because I can't be Bruce Springsteen." - Barack Obama
John Barleycorn
Minimalist

Posts: 1726

Age: 28
From: Estonia

  29.05.2006 at 20:59
@Nervel: Or maybe it´s because you don´t know enough about these bands. No offence.

Btw. I don´t like Slipknot, either. So at least there´s a point we can agree on.
BitterCOld
OldBitterGringo

Posts: 12350

Age: 41
From: Paraguay

  29.05.2006 at 21:00
I think a lot of it hinges on the fact that a lot of the bands listed above are more challenging listens. Also, the "tr00" factor probably dissuades a lot of people... oh well, their loss, right?

Personally, I don't really care what the label of the music is, but rather the music itself.
----
get the fuck off my lawn.
BitterCOld
OldBitterGringo

Posts: 12350

Age: 41
From: Paraguay

  29.05.2006 at 21:04
Written by Lucas on 29.05.2006 at 20:54

Mostly because it sounds too commercial. Damn, I'm gonna get killed for saying that. I better delete it.

No, I hate bands suchs as Slipknot and Korn, but I know you don't mean those with ''Alternative". Well, at least more than those too.

To answer your question, I have NO idea. Maybe because it doesn't sound extreme enough for me, or just because it is not my taste?



And here we discover the root of the problem (this was posted as I was typing my initial offer on this thread)...

Immediately people spring to "nu", "korn" and "slipknot" once alternative comes up.

As for "too commercial", there is absolutely nothing commercial about Godflesh, Sleep, Neurosis, or probably a huge swath of the bands flagged as alternative...

Close minded stereotyping boorishness. "Alternative music sucks because I hate Nu-Metal" crap... that's like saying "I hate black metal because Dani Filth is gay."

It's because of crap like that that I fall out of my chair rolling on the floor laughing whenever I hear a metalhead use the term "openminded."
----
get the fuck off my lawn.
jupitreas
Djerk

Posts: 6516
From: Poland

  29.05.2006 at 23:15
The reason why I dont reply is simply because I've been on this site for years and I've already replied in the previous two or 3 "Sleep" and "Om" threads, LOL. I just cant be bothered to do it again
Ur-Nammu
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 02:06
@uku, they don't call it "alternative" just because the word sounds fancy But seriously though, in a conservative and conforming old dinosaur of a genre (as metal for the most part is, whether we like it or not) there is little room to maneouver and still be popular. It's like suggesting Indian seasoning to a French chef, unorthodox.

Metal overlaps quite a lot with the mainstream, and a lot of metalheads aren't into metal for the music (the art), but for the scene, so anything that threatens these old conventions is shunned by the metal majority. Hence, again, the word alternative

I'm not even making sense anymore, oh well, I'm tired.
Lokomotiv
Übermensch

Posts: 4548

Age: 30
From: Chile

  30.05.2006 at 03:03
Written by John Barleycorn on 29.05.2006 at 20:35

Well, maybe I am just disappointed to see so few comments in my awesome threads about Om and Sleep


mmm I feel the same... not a single fucking comment in my awesome threads about Oxbow and 5ive hehehe.... shame on you!
jupitreas
Djerk

Posts: 6516
From: Poland

  30.05.2006 at 03:07
I've been praising 5ive for like a year or so in the previous forum, LOL.
Thats why this time I didnt say anything
Lokomotiv
Übermensch

Posts: 4548

Age: 30
From: Chile

  30.05.2006 at 03:34
Written by jupitreas on 30.05.2006 at 03:07

I've been praising 5ive for like a year or so in the previous forum, LOL.
Thats why this time I didnt say anything


hehehe really??? I didn't knew about that praises... (only slightly remembered about someone in this forum naming them).... well, maybe a post yours would help to make people interested in the band it won't hurt anyone...

btw... do you know Oxbow?
jupitreas
Djerk

Posts: 6516
From: Poland

  30.05.2006 at 03:52
Yeah man, they are a great noise rock band, really awesome stuff. I still kinda think Jesus Lizard is unbeatable in the 90s noise rock category though...
Lokomotiv
Übermensch

Posts: 4548

Age: 30
From: Chile

  30.05.2006 at 04:00
I have to check Jesus Lizard then...
BitterCOld
OldBitterGringo

Posts: 12350

Age: 41
From: Paraguay

  30.05.2006 at 08:43
Written by Guest on 30.05.2006 at 02:06

@uku, they don't call it "alternative" just because the word sounds fancy But seriously though, in a conservative and conforming old dinosaur of a genre (as metal for the most part is, whether we like it or not) there is little room to maneouver and still be popular. It's like suggesting Indian seasoning to a French chef, unorthodox.

Metal overlaps quite a lot with the mainstream, and a lot of metalheads aren't into metal for the music (the art), but for the scene, so anything that threatens these old conventions is shunned by the metal majority. Hence, again, the word alternative

I'm not even making sense anymore, oh well, I'm tired.



No worries, mate, you made perfect sense. I think you and I were ultimately approaching the same point from slightly different angles - you managed to state it a little more "politically" than I did...
----
get the fuck off my lawn.
Lucas
Mr. Noise

Posts: 13423

Age: 23
From: The Netherlands

  30.05.2006 at 16:03
To replay on you, uku (no offence taken) and Bitter COld..

First to uku: I don't know a lot about Alternative, very true. Is that ignorant? I don't know. I do know, that the alternative that I HAVE heard, was something I didn't like. Did I listen to the wrong bands? The wrong songs for example? I don't know. Sometimes I just am not interested enough, and stick to the 'old' and 'known' paths of Death & Black, you see? For example Stoner. It sounds like quite interesting music, am I right connceting it with Space Rock? So basically my point to you is, some Alternative I don't like, some I haven't heard. I might try it out sooner or later, I just haven't reached that point. (yet)

To Bitter COld: I KNOW I should not have said that, don't know why I still did. I apologize for that. I say the same thing to you as I said to uku, I just simply don't know enough of it, to make a realistic judgement. My opinion of Alternative is based on Korn & Slipknot, which isn't fair, but isn't it obvious? As those two bands represent those genres (or at least, they are [b]said[/i] to represent 'Alternative').

So, I WILL, sooner or later, try it out. I think I'm open-minded enough, since I listen to other stuff than Metal, so one day, I will have a valid opinion. If I'm not locked up in prison when that time arrives, I'll post it here.
----
SLUDGE. DOOM. DEATH. Wait, what?

"The reason I'm running for president is because I can't be Bruce Springsteen." - Barack Obama
Ur-Nammu
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 16:16
@Bitter COld, cheers The subject matter herein is among the reasons why I nowadays don't really consider myself a metalhead, but an extreme music listener, since some people have narrow opinions, i.e. (now this is an exaggeration) "I like this, so it's metal, I don't like this, so it's not metal".
TheKreator
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 21:06
alternative is so unpopular, probably because it does not contain any form of technicity , maybe just of the voice(sometimes)...the subject of a song can very well be transmitted through a more atracting rythm of another metal genre ( thrash for example)
John Barleycorn
Minimalist

Posts: 1726

Age: 28
From: Estonia

  30.05.2006 at 21:09
Written by Guest on 30.05.2006 at 21:06

alternative is so unpopular, probably because it does not contain any form of technicity , maybe just of the voice(sometimes)...the subject of a song can very well be transmitted through a more atracting rythm of another metal genre ( thrash for example)

I even don´t understand what did you say
TheKreator
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 21:15
Written by John Barleycorn on 30.05.2006 at 21:09

Written by Guest on 30.05.2006 at 21:06

alternative is so unpopular, probably because it does not contain any form of technicity , maybe just of the voice(sometimes)...the subject of a song can very well be transmitted through a more atracting rythm of another metal genre ( thrash for example)

I even don´t understand what did you say


i mean that the guitar riffs... don't really exist...the drummer doesn't have to know so much about drumming...an the basist...uses one bass line for each song...the songs seem to me plain and unattractive...while a speed metal song for example has all it takes ( take a listen to metal church) now you understand?
John Barleycorn
Minimalist

Posts: 1726

Age: 28
From: Estonia

  30.05.2006 at 21:32
Well, let´s take Tool, for example. How can you say the drummer doesn´t know much about drumming; even if you don´t like Tool, the quality of Carey´s drumming is beyond doubt. There surely exist riffs in Isis, for example, and saying that there are no riffs in stoner is just contradiction And these are just some meager examples.

Which bands do you mean when you say they´re unattractive.

I´m afraid this discussion doesn´t get us anywhere but your post was simply false.
Twilight
IntepridTraveler

Posts: 1161
From: The Netherlands

  30.05.2006 at 22:07
Written by Guest on 30.05.2006 at 21:15

Written by John Barleycorn on 30.05.2006 at 21:09

Written by Guest on 30.05.2006 at 21:06

alternative is so unpopular, probably because it does not contain any form of technicity , maybe just of the voice(sometimes)...the subject of a song can very well be transmitted through a more atracting rythm of another metal genre ( thrash for example)

I even don´t understand what did you say


i mean that the guitar riffs... don't really exist...the drummer doesn't have to know so much about drumming...an the basist...uses one bass line for each song...the songs seem to me plain and unattractive...while a speed metal song for example has all it takes ( take a listen to metal church) now you understand?

If you listen to The Dillinger Escape Plan you will hear that they're far more technical than most heavy metal bands. And if not, then the drummer is still one of the best drummers I've heard and the guitarists are amazing as well.

And uku states another great example.
----
And when our eyes will meet there
We will recognize nothing's wrong
TheKreator
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 22:40
ah...i guess you're right ...both uku and Twilight....but still,i was refering to more popular bands, such as P.O.D.,Zebrahead, and The Bloodhound Gang...anyway...you do make a point...i guess alternative does have it's strong points after all
Ur-Nammu
Account deleted
  30.05.2006 at 23:06
Alternative as a genre is very loose, it's not really a genre actually. Alternative is just anything outside of the metal mainstream. Then there are different styles within this loose categorisation. Why most people "hate alternative metal" is because they assume it's synonymous with nu metal. And as to why metalheads hate nu metal... well, for the same reasons I listed above for hating alternative metal.

And nu metal is a ridiculous concept, since after Korn people started dubbing everything new with distorted guitars nu metal.
4look4rd
The Sasquatch

Posts: 768

Age: 22
From: USA

  01.06.2006 at 02:01
one curious thing:
Even though I hate Slipknot, they do have some +points (well one), their drumer is not that bad, same thing with the Avenge Sevenfold one (cant stand that band!), of course there are better drumers in the metal scene
----
Lokomotiv
Übermensch

Posts: 4548

Age: 30
From: Chile

  01.06.2006 at 02:16
Written by 4look4rd on 01.06.2006 at 02:01

one curious thing:
Even though I hate Slipknot, they do have some +points (well one), their drumer is not that bad, same thing with the Avenge Sevenfold one (cant stand that band!), of course there are better drumers in the metal scene


I only know ONE better drummer than Slipknot's in Metal: Reno Kiilerich from Panzerchrist.

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