Written by Talvi on 20.02.2008 at 22:37

Oh, also, seeing how genres are divided in the forum, with Melodic, Extreme, and Alternative (kinda of like, 'the others'), does this mean every other genre that isn't melodic and extreme? So, Avant-Garde, Metalcore, Hardcore, Nu, 'pure' Alternative, Industrial, Experimental and sorry if I miss anything, all that is Alternative, acording to the definitions given by this page?

Technically yes. I have said that the Alternative metal tag is ultimately useless but when taken into the same context as the melodic and extreme tags it kinda works. It serves as a blanket term for all of the forms of metal which stray away from the more commonly used techniques of metal (which happen to be melodic, extreme and sometimes both).

Written by Number Juan on 23.02.2008 at 05:52

Written by Talvi on 20.02.2008 at 22:37

Oh, also, seeing how genres are divided in the forum, with Melodic, Extreme, and Alternative (kinda of like, 'the others'), does this mean every other genre that isn't melodic and extreme? So, Avant-Garde, Metalcore, Hardcore, Nu, 'pure' Alternative, Industrial, Experimental and sorry if I miss anything, all that is Alternative, acording to the definitions given by this page?

Technically yes. I have said that the Alternative metal tag is ultimately useless but when taken into the same context as the melodic and extreme tags it kinda works. It serves as a blanket term for all of the forms of metal which stray away from the more commonsly used techniques of metal (which happen to be melodic, extreme and sometimes both).

So we could say Alternative is unpopular because many of our fellow MSers are into the traditional forms of metal: true and tr00?

Written by +{Jonas}+ on 02.04.2008 at 05:13

Written by Number Juan on 23.02.2008 at 05:52

Written by Talvi on 20.02.2008 at 22:37

Oh, also, seeing how genres are divided in the forum, with Melodic, Extreme, and Alternative (kinda of like, 'the others'), does this mean every other genre that isn't melodic and extreme? So, Avant-Garde, Metalcore, Hardcore, Nu, 'pure' Alternative, Industrial, Experimental and sorry if I miss anything, all that is Alternative, acording to the definitions given by this page?

Technically yes. I have said that the Alternative metal tag is ultimately useless but when taken into the same context as the melodic and extreme tags it kinda works. It serves as a blanket term for all of the forms of metal which stray away from the more commonsly used techniques of metal (which happen to be melodic, extreme and sometimes both).

So we could say Alternative is unpopular because many of our fellow MSers are into the traditional forms of metal: true and tr00?

Probably. I personally do not take things so seriously as to destroy and slay "posers" left and right. In short: I don't care what people decide to listen to.

You also have to understand that metal fans are very resentful. Nu metal was the form of metal music which broke into the mainstream in the recent years (at least at the beginning of the century). Any form of music that ascends to the annals of mainstream popularity becomes stagnant and boring. Since nu-metal is very stylistically different than the traditional forms of metal and since most of it was pretty bad, it became the poster boy style for everything alternative, effectively causing everything that wasn't traditional or extreme, to be shunned and criticized, which is frankly wrong.

That is why alternative metal is constantly criticized.

Full on, Number Juan.

it's not popular, because people don't like branching out, it's just a question of trying new things.

alternative is always harder to get into, some people just don't have the curiosity
or feel sated.

I cant stand Alternative Metal. Most the bands are, imo, kiddy metal, and I don't like that. Now, correct my if I'm wrong, but wouldn't bands like Story of the Year fall under this as well? Clean vocals dont mix with screaming like that, and lyrically speaking...the bands you gave leave a lot to be desired.

I thought I should add my simple two cents to this subject: this is METALstorm, not Alternativestorm. Granted some of the bands hold a good interest, like Tool, too me, it just doesn't seem like the place for it, you know?

The internet is full of forums and various band sites and I'm sure there's bound to be a bigger and better place for Alternative.

I thought it was called Alternative METAL?

My source who is ...I will say unreliable, once told me that people said "alternative" because it's an alternative to metal. When one thinks "metalstorm" (not the weapon system), you would expect an plethora of extreme metal, not the dominant known bands or what's considered to be alternative metal.

it's a metal alternative to the decidedly "color by numbers" way of doing metal.

and it's not like MS is lacking a "plethora" of extreme metal to make room for alternative metal - MS goes a step further and incorporates those whose metal journey has them exploring off the beaten path.

if alternative metal bands are not your cup of tea, you can simply avoid the Alternative Metal forum. no one is forcing you to read these threads, nor listen to the music. if you wish to limit yourself based upon scene orthodoxy, that's your call.

I myself appreciate that MetalStorm has forums dedicated to other genres of music outside metal.

It gives us a chance to talk with people who like metal and x-genre. I believe I can have a better conversation with someone about say...jazz, if that person is also a metalhead.

Talking to someone who is just into Jazz or is biased against metal makes for a less interesting conversation...for me at least.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 21.07.2008 at 20:07

My source who is ...I will say unreliable, once told me that people said "alternative" because it's an alternative to metal. When one thinks "metalstorm" (not the weapon system), you would expect an plethora of extreme metal, not the dominant known bands or what's considered to be alternative metal.

Alternative to mainstream music, in this case mainstream metal.
So yes its still METAL(!!!).

Written by Candlemass on 26.07.2008 at 01:41

Written by TheBigRossowski on 21.07.2008 at 20:07

My source who is ...I will say unreliable, once told me that people said "alternative" because it's an alternative to metal. When one thinks "metalstorm" (not the weapon system), you would expect an plethora of extreme metal, not the dominant known bands or what's considered to be alternative metal.

Alternative to mainstream music, in this case mainstream metal.
So yes its still METAL(!!!).

Yes, understood. I get the meaning behind the genre, I recognize it as a genre. Metalstorm just looks to be a site more focused on the other genres. That's why I believe in doesn't receive much recognition.

Written by Guest on 21.07.2008 at 08:35

I cant stand Alternative Metal. Most the bands are, imo, kiddy metal, and I don't like that. Now, correct my if I'm wrong, but wouldn't bands like Story of the Year fall under this as well? Clean vocals dont mix with screaming like that, and lyrically speaking...the bands you gave leave a lot to be desired.

dude story of the year is generic label made emo "punk", theyre nto even trying to be metal. alternate metal is something completely different.

I personally hardly ever come to the alternative metal forums, and you can see by my collection that I don't exactly listen to any alternative metal either.

Nevertheless, I want to extend the hand of friendship to my fellow metalheads here on the alternative metal forums! While I might not like much of your music, I think you guys deserve to be respected at the very least as fellow metalheads. Power metallers are in the same boat as you guys when it comes to getting respect. You guys get lumped together with the few crappy commercial nu metal and metalcore bands and everyone equates power metal with Dragonforce.

One last thing:

MAY YOU FEEL THE POWER OF DRAGONFLAME IN YOUR HEARTS METAL BROTHERS! FIGHT ON FOR FREEDOM AND GLORY!

Written by Hrothdane on 20.09.2008 at 03:05

MAY YOU FEEL THE POWER OF DRAGONFLAME IN YOUR HEARTS METAL BROTHERS! FIGHT ON FOR FREEDOM AND GLORY!

Starchaser!!!!!

I think its simple, "Alternative Metal" is such a broad term. Many of the bands that fit under "Alternative Metal" could fit under Melodic & Extreme and it works the other way around as well.

Lemme rephrase, Alternative Metal is scene; the cat sings of government and the master plan. I don't like seriousness. If I wanted to know how shitty the world is, I'd listen to hippy music. I need something that makes me feel awesome, and a guy singing about how shitty his life is doesn't do it for me, no, no sir, I need someone singin' about the big ass fucking hammer in his hand and the Christian face he's about to pound.

Written by Guest on 22.09.2008 at 22:13

Lemme rephrase, Alternative Metal is scene; the cat sings of government and the master plan. I don't like seriousness. If I wanted to know how shitty the world is, I'd listen to hippy music. I need something that makes me feel awesome, and a guy singing about how shitty his life is doesn't do it for me, no, no sir, I need someone singin' about the big ass fucking hammer in his hand and the Christian face he's about to pound.

Because serious subjects are somehow absent from other areas of metal?

Napalm Death make more political statements than any alternative metal band I currently listen to.

Sacred Reich wasn't stumping for Obama when I saw them last month... nothin' serious there.

Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, all have taken a stab at a political song or two.

I could go on and on with obvious and thinly veiled song after song if I wanted.

Seems to me you're big into the whole fantasy thing and don't know too terribly much about alternative metal.

I'm not sure about this.
It does seem to be an issue, i also consider myself a fan of Alternative, Stoner,industrial, avantgarde grunge rock.
And when i have told others, of the heavy tastes, this is so, i get shunted for it.
I find that the height of all rudeness. I dont understand how people can judge other people because of the music they like,.
like i said, i love stoner grunge rock, hate thrash and all that uncultured, eneducated thrash shit. Not only do i not find it entertaining, or musically pleasing, but i have above average hearing. to the point i can constantly hear the electricity buzzing through machines around me. Thrash is defiantely not good for those of sensetive hearing man, fucking make my ears bleed LITERALLY
but i defiantely do not judge others that like it, because that is simply not my right. If i was too, i could list a thousands things as to why its crap music ( thrash etc ) it would be quite easy.
But you dont and im off the mind that these thrash heads should realise that it's a case of each to their own in this life.
Im not sure about their hatred for alternative rock either. A lot of thrash heads tend to be slightly aggressive people, including girls, their testosterone levels are too high or something. So, i believe that alternative rock does not give them that fix they need. Their like junkies, ragy music gives thema hit. They get off, jump around in death circles or whatever those fucked up mosh circles are and spill blood and LOVE it.
Kepp it i say, I'll have my Alice in Chains and my peace pipe any day

Written by DevilBabi on 23.09.2008 at 04:18

but i have above average hearing. to the point i can constantly hear the electricity buzzing through machines around me. Thrash is defiantely not good for those of sensetive hearing man, fucking make my ears bleed LITERALLY

Okay, then I do find it strange that you have Death Magnetic listed as your favourite album.
Because the RECORDING (so not talking about the songs as such) is way too loud (being in the red all the time), has no dynamics to it, and literally does buzz all the time. And soundwise it is only slightly better than St. Anger.

Another thing I find surprsing is that you also list Pantera as one of your favourites because especially Far Beyond Driven is an aural asssault of unprecedented magnitude and epitomises the state of thrash at the time.

You hate thrash yet list Pantera & Metallica amongst your favourites. I guess with Pantera you mean the albums they recorded with Phil from Cowboys From Hell till they split. And for Metallica I guess you would also include the first four (which were totally thrash)

Written by BitterCOld on 22.09.2008 at 22:58

Written by Guest on 22.09.2008 at 22:13

Lemme rephrase, Alternative Metal is scene; the cat sings of government and the master plan. I don't like seriousness. If I wanted to know how shitty the world is, I'd listen to hippy music. I need something that makes me feel awesome, and a guy singing about how shitty his life is doesn't do it for me, no, no sir, I need someone singin' about the big ass fucking hammer in his hand and the Christian face he's about to pound.

Because serious subjects are somehow absent from other areas of metal?

Napalm Death make more political statements than any alternative metal band I currently listen to.

Sacred Reich wasn't stumping for Obama when I saw them last month... nothin' serious there.

Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, all have taken a stab at a political song or two.

I could go on and on with obvious and thinly veiled song after song if I wanted.

Seems to me you're big into the whole fantasy thing and don't know too terribly much about alternative metal.

Sure, but I don't mean political songs, I mean that their music has the lyrical ingenuity and originality of a fish.

Now, I haven't listened to Alternative Metal seriously; I've heard songs, but I don't pay much attention to them, so I went through the forum, compared bands to lyrics. First on, Mortiis:
"Here standeth I.
Mighty and unbreakable.
My shadow is the darkness, of this land.
All folk fear me...
My windows are few...
Shining with the power, of uncountable ages...
Within me happen all...
Magic spells are cast.
All power dwelleth in me.
I am the doom of all.
For I hosteth him, that created, destiny and reality.
He that travel, in time and space.
Walking the paths, of life and death's twillight.
He that once, left his heart, in this land,
He that once, entered the iron gates, of me.
He leaves never but seldom,
his chambers within...
Perhaps now, his mind broods and plotts, unsaid dark thoughts.
Or perchance he is only sad?"


The lyrics sway from story to story, all they are is words, they hold no meaning other than depression, darkness, and that's the gamut of their communicative value.

Tool, another example, I closed my eyes and picked a random song from a list.

"
Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled agaiiiiin.
I'm born againnnn....

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Saturn ascends, comes round again.
Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage dooooone.

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what you will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
Wear the grudge like a crown.
Desperate to control.
Unable to forgive. And sinking deeper.

Defining, confining, sinking deeper.
Controlling, defining, and we're sinking deeper.

Saturn comes back around to show you everything
Let's you choose what you will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again
Spits you out like a child, light and innocent.
Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child
or drags you down like a stone to
Consume you till you choose tooooooo, let this goooooooo.
Choose tooooooo, let this gooooooo.

Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

Let gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

It's just so...depressing...and -- no offense, don't get pissy about this or anything, I'm just saying -- it's kinda gay.

Written by Guest on 23.09.2008 at 22:32

It's just so...depressing...and -- no offense, don't get pissy about this or anything, I'm just saying -- it's kinda gay.

because there is absolutely nothing homoerotic at all about listening to and enjoying songs about a big burly man hitting another man in the face with a hammer... Freud might have a thing or two to say about that imagery.

so what about the lyrics you posted? anyone can cherry pick whatever they want.

you fail.

Written by BitterCOld on 23.09.2008 at 22:54

Written by Guest on 23.09.2008 at 22:32

It's just so...depressing...and -- no offense, don't get pissy about this or anything, I'm just saying -- it's kinda gay.

because there is absolutely nothing homoerotic at all about listening to and enjoying songs about a big burly man hitting another man in the face with a hammer... Freud might have a thing or two to say about that imagery.

so what about the lyrics you posted? anyone can cherry pick whatever they want.

you fail.

I didn't go looking for shit lyrics that a baby came up with, I posted two songs; guess how many songs I clicked on? Two. The search I had on my reason of complete dislike for the entire genre showed that lyrically, one of the most popular bands under the heading of Alternative Metal, Tool, has, at a complete random guess, lyrics which make no sense.

There's no reason to like or dislike music, it's all opinion, no argument on that, but let's not get into all the other shit that we can call opinion. MY OPINION is that Alternative Metal is depressing and faggy. and my OPINION of good music is that it doesn't involve how shit things are.

one individual's analysis of "The Grudge" by Tool...

First off, sorry this is gonna be so long, I'm gonna disect pretty much every line
Well guys, I'm not here to clear anything up on the meaning of this song, cuz I don't know it for sure. I like to think my interpretation is right (some of you are probably closer though), but it's open to everyone's views, and I love reading what all of you think. But anyway, here goes.

I think unlike most songs, Tool is pretty straightforward on this song. It doesn't seem allegorical, but it is quite deep. To be honest, after buying lateralus and hearing this song, it became my life motto. I hate grudges, and I can't stand holding them now. It just seems so childish.

I think Maynard is almost throwing the idea of grudge holding back into the faces of people that do it. He's making fun of them for such a savage thing. Like the first line...

"wear the grudge like a crown of negativity" (go ahead, put your grudge out where everyone can see it, let everyone know that you're mad and that you want to be that way).

"calculate what we will and will not tolerate" (decide exactly what you want to get mad over that would make you hold a grudge. this way when it happens, you can keep putting that crown back on)

"desperate to control all and everything" (you don't want to be on good terms. you WANT the grudge. if you can control the grudge, you can control the person you hold the grudge against.)

"unable to forgive your scarlet letterman" (although they know they've done wrong, you won't forgive them under any circumstance)

"clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down" (clutch the grudge that you hold like a cornerstone, because you know if you don't then the grudge dies. you don't want that)

"justify denials and grip em to the lonesome end" (come up with excuses to continue holding the grudge, and stand by them until the end, even when everyone hates you for what you're doing, hence lonesome)

"Terrified of being wrong, ultimatum prison cell" (you're scared to death that someone can prove that you have no reason to hold a grudge. you worry about it so much you put yourself in your own little prison over it)
[Remember this whole time, I believe Maynard's making fun of the people that do this. Almost reverse psycology by showing them how stupid it is]

Then I have to agree with 'Insecure Dilusions' idea on the Saturn thing. Saturn was god of all greek gods. he was sooo worried he could be overthrown he ate his children. Yet Zeus was the one thing that Saturn overlooked. That one thing overthrew Saturn and killed him. Hang on to the grudge like saturn would, because if you don't you'll be humbled in your ignorance. And later he says "ignorant to the damage done"... ignorance isn't stupidity, it's not knowing about something. in this case, Saturn was ignorant to the damage done to himself until Zeus killed him.

"unable to forgive and we're sinking deeper" (you won't forgive, and for this you're slowly creating a larger grudge)

The grudge begins to define you, confine you, even control you.

Again to the Saturn reference for almost the rest of the song. Saying that Saturn, almost as if, takes over your body. He and you become one, you make the decisions Saturn chose. And not until you end the grudge will he quit tearing you apart.

Finally Maynard quit's criticizing and simply tells them what they need to do.
Give away the (corner)stone. Let the oceans take and transmute this cold and weighted anchor (that was your grudge, holding you down). Give away the stone. Let the waters take and transmute these leaden (heavy burdensome) grudges into gold. LET GO.

And thus ends my entirely too long interpretation. However, this is what I believe and exactly how I feel. This pretty much explains my life motto. I thank each of your for your time in reading such a long and drawn out post. You deserve a pat on the back for putting up with my jabbering.

maybe the lyrics are just too complex for you. that's cool. stick with your songs about swords and hammers and magic spells or whatever. no point in challenging yourself.

Quote:

Quote:

Okay, then I do find it strange that you have Death Magnetic listed as your favourite album.
Because the RECORDING (so not talking about the songs as such) is way too loud (being in the red all the time), has no dynamics to it, and literally does buzz all the time. And soundwise it is only slightly better than St. Anger.


Another thing I find surprsing is that you also list Pantera as one of your favourites because especially Far Beyond Driven is an aural asssault of unprecedented magnitude and epitomises the state of thrash at the time.

You hate thrash yet list Pantera & Metallica amongst your favourites. I guess with Pantera you mean the albums they recorded with Phil from Cowboys From Hell till they split. And for Metallica I guess you would also include the first four (which were totally thrash)

Intersting conclusion, however, i turn my levels down on all my stereos where possible. So bass is always booming, but high range is turned down and selected low range to help with that . I usually stick to low range, and avoid high range all together. Trble levels down as far as possible etc. That's also the reason i dont like trance the high range in that gives me a killer head ache man. I cannot hear any reverbs through the Death Magnetic, however, that may be why. All my high ranges are low.

Pantera, although i feel i dont have to explain my musical choices to anyone, is an exception to the rule. I still dont enjoy thrash metal and in my eyes, do not consider Pantera to be thrash. Actaully, i dont consider Pantera to be part of any genre, Their defiantely in a league of their own, if you'd like a further in depth conversation about my genre grouping, pm baby, i can talk for days.
And your correct, albums with Phill.

The first four Metallica albums, I do NOT like. And if by the first four you mean,
And Justice For all - I only like 1 song and its the one every one else likes, One. Besides that, the rest of the album is complete wank thrash shit. Cant stand it.
Then there's Kill 'Em All. Nope cant stand that album either.
Also, Master of Puppets, nope nothing on there i like either.
Ride the lightening - Only like 3 songs off that, wait no, make that 2. The rest, in MY OPINION AND MY OPINION ONLY, complete crap.
CANNOT stand St Anger hate that album also,
but i love love love teh standards and thats what makes them MY fav band.
The standards i like are
Re-Load, Load, Metallica and Death Magnetic.

The tone of this thread is getting way too serious. Just let people listen to what they want for Christ's sake. Is that so hard??

Written by Number Juan on 24.09.2008 at 05:26

The tone of this thread is getting way too serious. Just let people listen to what they want for Christ's sake. Is that so hard??

I concur! Live and let live.

first off, this thread has toned down considerably since the opening days.

second of all, how do you think I would be received if I went into a Manowar thread and said "Manowar is, well, gay. There is nothing more faggy than a Manowar album cover."

think civil discourse would follow that?

i don't. which is why, even though i think Manowar is horribly homoerotic, i don't post on their thread.

if people who clearly have minimal to no grasp on alternative metal post on this thread, posting ill-informed negative comments regarding the subgenres which make up Alt-metal they open themselves up to rebuttal.

if you post serious reasons as to why you dislike the genre, that is fine. if you cannot get beyond using words like "nu", "gay", or "faggy", i don't feel the need to even attempt to be pleasant in my counterarguments with you.