Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.08.2014 at 16:42

Written by Karlabos on 07.08.2014 at 16:36

^That happens to me to. If I listen to someone speaking in Italian, for instance I can actually understand some things even though I never had contact with it
By the other hand I recall being like on the 2nd year of german studying and not being able to get anything at all on a conversation =(

Quite logical... since your native language is Brazilian Portuguese which is a Romance (also referred to as a Romanic or a Latin or a Neo-Latin) language, just like Italian whereas German is a Germanic language and hence totally different to your ow language.

I think Romanic lang is easer to understand if you know one, base is latin....same goes german.
I did study it in the school, I had better grades as in eng in the beginning, knowing ger helped me easer to learned Swedish

Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.08.2014 at 17:32

I don't think Spanish or Italian are that close to English. English takes more influence from German, Latin, and French than it does from Spanish.

English belongs to german lang group even they are more away from continent german as german, flaamish, but also Scandinavian as densish, Swedish, norvegian is farer also, same time icelandish is 12th century Norwegian, and fareo icelands 12 century denish IMO

English has easer grammer (harder spelling :p ) but same time English, scotish (some say its own lang, some say it accent) totally wipe out gealic and al celtic langs in the british islands

I speak English and am 60%-or-so fluent with Canadian French. Enough to avoid being stabbed if I ever heady montreal.


I would very much like to learn how to speak Russian.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.08.2014 at 17:32

I don't think Spanish or Italian are that close to English. English takes more influence from German, Latin, and French than it does from Spanish.

If we're talking about influence, then modern English has taken most influence from Norman French (which was neo-Latin with Norman influence)...
Spanish is also Neo-Latin... Latin took influence from Greek (besides being already related to Greek), the Romance and Germanic group already intermingled during late antiquity and the middle ages and that explains the common word-stock pretty well... Plus the fact that all of the aforementioned languages belonged to the same language family all along... so yes, English hasn't really taken anything from Spanish itself... it's more like English and Spanish having the same ancestor and having been influenced by the same source languages...

English itself is Germanic but it has more French vocabulary than other Germanic languages (such as German)... For example the original English word for "people" is "lede" ("Leute" in German, "lyudi" in Russian)... "people" was borrowed from French ("peuple") which derives from the Latin word "populus" (itself probably a borrowing from Etruscan)...

Written by Ernis on 10.08.2014 at 21:17


If we're talking about influence, then modern English has taken most influence from Norman French (which was neo-Latin with Norman influence)...

That is the received opinion, but I think modern scholarship is starting to recognize the previously-unrealized influence of Celtic languages on English. That could help explain the change that happens between the 9th century before the Norman Conquest and when the vernacular re-emerges as Middle English in the 13th. Caedmon's Hymn and the Ancrene Wisse - let alone Canterbury Tales - are very different, and the changes in the language do not systematically conform to the model of Norman French. Namely, English changed from an inflected language to an analytic one. It's been speculated, then, that the rapid change in English (and it really is a drastic change in just a few centuries) is due to the influence of Celtic languages which were still widely in use in Wales and Scotland.

Furthermore, the influence of Danish is pretty important. English is a Germanic language, that is true, but many of the similarities aren't actually signs of a common ancestry but rather recent (9th century and later) borrowings from the Danes.

So I wouldn't say it's as simple as Norman French being the greatest influence. A lot of the vocabulary related to learning and government are, for obvious reasons, related to French. But even then it's difficult to say whether the word was borrowed from French or Latin - the Norman vernacular was French, but Latin was the language of government and church in both England and France, so many of the seemingly French words might as well be derived from Latin.

Ultimately the question of what's the "biggest" influence is pretty arbitrary, anyway. To understand English, we just need to remember that it was brought to Britain as the Germanic Anglo-Saxon language, was influenced by Latin (as the lingua franca), Scandinavian (through Danelaw) and Celtic (as the previous native language still used locally), and then during the Norman Conquest it borrowed a lot of words and spelling from French (but, perhaps, not much grammar). And finally, for reasons I don't know, the Great Vowel Shift changed pronunciation around the 15th century, give or take a century and a half, so that we're left with the strange inconsistency of modern English spelling.

Written by IronAngel on 11.08.2014 at 10:47

Written by Ernis on 10.08.2014 at 21:17


If we're talking about influence, then modern English has taken most influence from Norman French (which was neo-Latin with Norman influence)...

That is the received opinion

Thanks for pointing these things out. I might not have mentioned them in my previous post but it's rather logical to think that English was influenced by other contemporary languages spoken at the territory where it eventually developed (including the Celtic languages and Danish)... I was referring to Latin-derived vocabulary as a major prominent feature of modern English... Grammar-wise, all Indo-European have the almost identical rules and features... and I'm saying that because I studied historical linguistics (not that I can speak PIE) but every IE language I've studied besides English (Spanish/German/Persian) has been like going through the same set of rules over and over again... When I started learning German, I had a pretty good advantage compared to those for whom English was the only foreign language... Whenever they were struggling with grammar, I just implemented the rules I already knew from French and Italian and it worked... Languages like Chinese and Estonian obviously do not have this system... although the latter has intermingled with Germanic and Slavic languages (can't say just German and Russian because we're talking about long periods of time and different Germanic/Slavic languages during their respective stages of development...)

English spelling isn't quite as lawless as it appears, it's just that the pronunciation changed dramatically after the orthography was mostly settled (by Caxton's time). The silent K is not the only historical leftover in 'knight' - the /ɪ/ has turned into the diphthong /aɪ/, and the gh, I think, would have been /ç/ (as in the German 'ich'). When you try to imagine how two similarly spelled but differently pronounced words would have been before the Great Vowel Shift, the changes usually make sense. (It is the difference between long and short vowels, typically.) But yeah, I reckon it's fair to say English spelling is difficult when you're first learning it - the notion of spelling competetitions at school, after the very first stages of learning to write, would be absurd for most any other language.

In general, I think English being a mess of a language is a bit of a myth - just like Finnish being hard, which is probably true for any language you try to learn from an entirely different language group. There are plenty of clear rules and internal logic in English, even if they're different from German. But that has a lot to do with it losing its inflected nature, so you don't have long lists of word forms to memorize. I remember being told by my high school teachers how commas and adverbs were difficult and how pretty much anything goes, but it turns out there are perfectly clear rules for where you place them (with wiggle-room, sure).

But yeah, it is easy to learn the basics of a new language if you know another one related to it. Romanic and Germanic languages are fairly easy to understand thanks to shared vocabulary and grammar. I wouldn't exaggerate the similarities of grammar, though: when you know the historical languages the moderns derive from, you can see the connections, but the same basic concepts aren't necessarily applied in the same way in different languages. I find that it can even cause problems: you'll confuse one language for another when something that looks similar actually has a different function.

English and Norwegian. Speaking Norwegian, it's quite simple to understand both swedish and danish, as it is quite similar.

Would like to learn german. I know a bit, but not nearly enough to compose an understandable sentence Would be very useful in my line of work.

Written by toxx on 14.08.2014 at 11:34

English and Norwegian. Speaking Norwegian, it's quite simple to understand both swedish and danish, as it is quite similar.

Would like to learn german. I know a bit, but not nearly enough to compose an understandable sentence Would be very useful in my line of work.

I always have thought german is more important lang. more connected whit ur region history, more useful to know as Spanish, or even frernch.... let they learn English , who cares about L America anyway ---

I want to start learning French, but it seems a bit tired for to begin. Now at 27 age I'm must doing it from zero.. Hope it is more similar to English or otherwise long road..or no the end.

German is really tough language, I don't think that I would improve in learning to speak it sooner than a year

Written by angel. on 08.09.2014 at 15:03

German is really tough language, I don't think that I would improve in learning to speak it sooner than a year

did you start?

Written by Bad English on 08.09.2014 at 19:36

did you start?

Yes officially

Written by angel. on 08.09.2014 at 15:03

German is really tough language, I don't think that I would improve in learning to speak it sooner than a year

Oh no, it's not that hard really. I had the basics down in about 3 months, although it did help that I was already living in Germany and had the chance to converse with the natives. I've been living in Germany for the past 6 years now and have now no problems whatsoever in expressing myself in casual as well as very technical matters and I have to do that quite often as I'm studying engineering and my course is completely in German. So if you're ever looking for someone to practice your German skills with, you're welcome to send me a PM.

Written by moonflash on 08.09.2014 at 21:08

Written by angel. on 08.09.2014 at 15:03

German is really tough language, I don't think that I would improve in learning to speak it sooner than a year

Oh no, it's not that hard really. I had the basics down in about 3 months, although it did help that I was already living in Germany and had the chance to converse with the natives. I've been living in Germany for the past 6 years now and have now no problems whatsoever in expressing myself in casual as well as very technical matters and I have to do that quite often as I'm studying engineering and my course is completely in German. So if you're ever looking for someone to practice your German skills with, you're welcome to send me a PM.

Oh, I always assumed you were form Germany seeing your location, where are you originally from?

And yeah, German is hard if you don't have anyone to practice with. I couldnt become better even with two years
But my course was only like 3 hrs per week too, so...

Written by Karlabos on 08.09.2014 at 21:24

Oh, I always assumed you were form Germany seeing your location, where are you originally from?

And yeah, German is hard if you don't have anyone to practice with. I couldnt become better even with two years
But my course was only like 3 hrs per week too, so...

lol my location is just that: my location. I'm originally from Islamabad, Pakistan, born and bred. Came to Germany when I was 17 because my parents decided to work here. Have been living here ever since. Well, I guess this country has kinda become my home after all this time though we do visit our relatives back in Pakistan every 2 years or so and it's always a load of fun.
But yeah, it's important to have somebody to talk to and practice when you're learning a new language. I studied French for 2 years in school while doing my Abitur (which is the German version of A-levels) and actually got some pretty good grades in my French tests and exams. But because I didn't practice it, all that I can do now is identify French when it's being spoken and tell my telephone number in French.

Written by angel. on 08.09.2014 at 19:42

Written by Bad English on 08.09.2014 at 19:36

did you start?

Yes officially

I knew german

Written by moonflash on 08.09.2014 at 21:08

Oh no, it's not that hard really. I had the basics down in about 3 months, although it did help that I was already living in Germany and had the chance to converse with the natives. I've been living in Germany for the past 6 years now and have now no problems whatsoever in expressing myself in casual as well as very technical matters and I have to do that quite often as I'm studying engineering and my course is completely in German. So if you're ever looking for someone to practice your German skills with, you're welcome to send me a PM.

Great, thanks a lot, then maybe we can chat sometime later when I'll improve a bit more But remember that you learned the language exactly in where people speak it, I think that makes more easily to learn. On the other hand I have 4 hours German in a week, I think that's not enough but well I can't pay for more hours, and the courses in the embassy are too expensive although I know they're much more qualified, anyway I have take the best out of it anyway.

Written by Bad English on 08.09.2014 at 21:57

I knew german

Really you know so many languages !

Written by angel. on 09.09.2014 at 10:16

Written by Bad English on 08.09.2014 at 21:57

I knew german

Really you know so many languages !

5 but my dream, is gealic

I'd like to learn Japanese, and probably Italian.

Japanese seems insanely hard with all those Chinese characters (2,000 if I remember correctly), but I accept the challenge. I read somewhere that it takes 9 years for the Japanese to learn their own language. That seems so inhuman. I wonder how many years would it take for someone like me?

And I want to learn Italian just because I like Italy

Written by Guest on 09.09.2014 at 19:29

I'd like to learn Japanese, and probably Italian.

Japanese seems insanely hard with all those Chinese characters (2,000 if I remember correctly), but I accept the challenge. I read somewhere that it takes 9 years for the Japanese to learn their own language. That seems so inhuman. I wonder how many years would it take for someone like me?

And I want to learn Italian just because I like Italy

Actually 2000 are the most common ones. If you include family kanjis then this number raises to about 5000 and if you include hard words and technical term kanjis then even I don't know how much they raise up to =P

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 19:53

Written by Guest on 09.09.2014 at 19:29

I'd like to learn Japanese, and probably Italian.

Japanese seems insanely hard with all those Chinese characters (2,000 if I remember correctly), but I accept the challenge. I read somewhere that it takes 9 years for the Japanese to learn their own language. That seems so inhuman. I wonder how many years would it take for someone like me?

And I want to learn Italian just because I like Italy

Actually 2000 are the most common ones. If you include family kanjis then this number raises to about 5000 and if you include hard words and technical term kanjis then even I don't know how much they raise up to =P

How many years did you spend learning it?

Written by Guest on 09.09.2014 at 20:02

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 19:53


Actually 2000 are the most common ones. If you include family kanjis then this number raises to about 5000 and if you include hard words and technical term kanjis then even I don't know how much they raise up to =P

How many years did you spend learning it?

I took classes for about 2 years, but they were only in the saturdays. So i don't know that much... When I go back to Brazil i wanna go back to classes but on a more specialized and serious place, even though it will be more expensive :3

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 20:39

Written by Guest on 09.09.2014 at 20:02

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 19:53


Actually 2000 are the most common ones. If you include family kanjis then this number raises to about 5000 and if you include hard words and technical term kanjis then even I don't know how much they raise up to =P

How many years did you spend learning it?

I took classes for about 2 years, but they were only in the saturdays. So i don't know that much... When I go back to Brazil i wanna go back to classes but on a more specialized and serious place, even though it will be more expensive :3

How much kanji were you able to memorize? Can I learn them all in, like, 4 years or so? 9 years is too much.

Written by Guest on 09.09.2014 at 23:15

How much kanji were you able to memorize? Can I learn them all in, like, 4 years or so? 9 years is too much.

Sheesh, Memorizing kanji is hard. It all depends on how much you study. If you just go to classes and expect to memorize them in 4 years i say you wont be able to

However you could enhance the process by going to sites like realkanji or so to practice. There is how i learned hiragana and katakana :3 Also it helped a lot with kanji, once i was the one in the class that was most ahead when it came to kanji. However i stopped practicing and started sucking....

So yeah, if yo want to be able to read/write kanji i guess you must stay practicing like... forever. They are too complex. its not just a common character like in english, greek or russian alphabet

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 23:23

once i was the one in the class that was most ahead when it came to kanji. However i stopped practicing and started sucking....

The thing with the Chinese characters (kanji/hanzi) is that you need to be exposed to them on a daily basis. You need to use them i.e. read them and write them (yes, handwrite, not type the Latin input into your device and browse for the character)... otherwise your brain will just move them to the recycle bin and restoring them might not be as difficult as learning entirely new material but it will still be a chore...

I take notes in Chinese characters from time to time... they require less space and may be less time consuming to write (if they look like 上... something like 齉 is an entirely different thing... although why would one need to use that in a note anyway)... If I don't exactly remember the strokes, I just resort to splurging ink on the paper... sometimes a vague shape of a character can do the thing as well...

Example... instead of 得ing to 写 a 长名字 such as 石山er, 你就能写石山er。
Ok... instead of having to write a long name such as Steinberger, you can just write Steinberger (and you end up using characters only). The perks of accommodating a word into one character... if only you knew enough of them...

Written by Ernis on 11.09.2014 at 20:48

Written by Karlabos on 09.09.2014 at 23:23

once i was the one in the class that was most ahead when it came to kanji. However i stopped practicing and started sucking....

The thing with the Chinese characters (kanji/hanzi) is that you need to be exposed to them on a daily basis. You need to use them i.e. read them and write them (yes, handwrite, not type the Latin input into your device and browse for the character)... otherwise your brain will just move them to the recycle bin and restoring them might not be as difficult as learning entirely new material but it will still be a chore...

I take notes in Chinese characters from time to time... they require less space and may be less time consuming to write (if they look like 上... something like 齉 is an entirely different thing... although why would one need to use that in a note anyway)... If I don't exactly remember the strokes, I just resort to splurging ink on the paper... sometimes a vague shape of a character can do the thing as well...

Example... instead of 得ing to 写 a 长名字 such as 石山er, 你就能写石山er。
Ok... instead of having to write a long name such as Steinberger, you can just write Steinberger (and you end up using characters only). The perks of accommodating a word into one character... if only you knew enough of them...

Yeah I think those who are learning japanese are bound to know less kanji than those learning chinese. Probably because we use more hiragana and kataktana to express ourselves in the beggining, while in chinese you must know the kanjis. So i dont think i know many characters enough to start doing that. I could do the same with hiragana pretty easily though =P

Also Steinberg = 石山 I see what you did there xD The characters are the same for japanese here.

Written by Karlabos on 11.09.2014 at 21:03

Yeah I think those who are learning japanese are bound to know less kanji than those learning chinese. Probably because we use more hiragana and kataktana to express ourselves in the beggining, while in chinese you must know the kanjis. So i dont think i know many characters enough to start doing that. I could do the same with hiragana pretty easily though =P

Also Steinberg = 石山 I see what you did there xD The characters are the same for japanese here.

A friend of mine started out studying Japanese independently before going on to university to major in Japanese. He graduated last December and is now living in Japan, and he speaks, writes, and reads with native-like proficiency. Anyway, he was extremely successful in learning kanji. It's been a while since I talked to him about this, but if anyone cares to know I can ask him for more details on his exact method -- what I do remember him telling me was that before he started learning characters, he learned all the radicals. If I remember correctly, I think he also said something about memorizing the on and kun readings outside of the context of lexical items, which helped him develop a good intuition for pronouncing unfamiliar compound words (or, as good an intuition as one can have, I don't think they're always very predictable).
He also told me that he found his knowledge of Japanese kanji was extremely helpful when he took a course on classical Chinese literature, but not so much when he was studying modern Chinese. Apparently some of the characters they encountered a lot in the literature still had their original meanings in Japanese, while in Chinese the meanings had changed.


As for myself, I answered this thread a long-ass time ago, but my answer has changed slightly. Since I'm here, I might as well do it again, right?
Aside from English (which is my native language), I can also speak German, some Swedish, and some Japanese. Unfortunately, I'm so out of practice with Japanese that, while I can still talk to people about casual topics and things that I'm familiar with, I've lost so much kanji that I'm functionally illiterate. I can pick out words, but getting through even one paragraph is usually a nightmare.

In addition to that, I can read Middle High German (though, admittedly, it does take a bit of time). I can also sometimes read a little bit of Norwegian and Danish (again, it takes a while, and my level of success will depend on how complicated the text is, but success is possible). For kicks, I also like to go on Wikipedia and try to read articles in Dutch. Depending on the content of the article, I can sometimes comprehend a surprising amount of it. But most of the time it kind of just makes me feel like my brain is broken.

^--- Why all that stuff in the last paragraph? Because half of my bachelor's degree was in Germanic Languages and Literatures. The other half of my undergraduate studies was in Linguistics, which is why I also know more than I rightfully should know about Blackfoot, for someone who can't actually speak a word of it. Given the opportunity, I would dearly love to take an actual Blackfoot language course. There was supposed to be one offered at my current university this fall, but I wasn't able to take it because of a scheduling conflict, and I heard later on that it was cancelled anyway because the instructor resigned shortly before the semester started. I'm hoping they find someone else to teach it by next year so I can take it. Outside of that I'd like to learn any North American indigenous language, and I'm particularly interested in Algonquian languages (specifically Blackfoot and Shawnee, for reasons unrelated to each other).

I speak slovene,english and serbian.. I know a little german from high school but to be honest my german is quite poor.. Also know a little spanish but not enough to talk to spanish speaking person.. I always loved scandinavian languages (Norwegian,Swedish and Finnish) and would like to learn them someday.. And I also love slavic languages.. (Russian)..