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The original post

Posted by BreadGod on 04.09.2007 at 00:51
There was a thread about this a long time ago, but it was locked due to the people posting there being incompetent. This is a very touchy subject, I know, but I want people to at least attempt to act in a civilized matter when discussing this. Flamewars are forbidden, and anyone attempting to start a flamewar will be doused in a chemical bath. With all of this out of the way, let's discuss our views on this subject.

Personally, I have no quarrels with someone being gay, or even bisexual for that matter. To each his own. They are not the monsters that religions make them out to be. They walk, talk, and think just like anyone else, and they have a great plethora of ideas to contribute to society. They are also just as intelligent as everyone else, and they have the same concerns and worries as any other person. As a real life example, my mother's hair dresser (who is also my hair dresser, which explains why my hair is so beautiful) is gay, but he is quite the upstanding fellow, and is quite intelligent. In short, I greatly respect the gay community and I wish to see them claim the same rights as everyone else.

Discussion starts... now.



Page 12 of 21

Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  08.01.2012 at 00:27
Written by Void Eater on 08.01.2012 at 00:24
I am appalled by your ongoing support of the systematic oppression of those who happen to lead a different lifestyle than the one which you choose to live.

It's drug week on the Discovery Channel, and I was watching this documentary about gays in the San Francisco meth scene. It's amazing how many gays are against that (^) kind of crap. I think there are probably as many gay people against the pro-gay parades and shit as there are heteros.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 00:35
Written by Void Eater on 08.01.2012 at 00:24

Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.01.2012 at 00:12

Dude don't be gay, we're trying to be mature here.

I am appalled by your ongoing support of the systematic oppression of those who happen to lead a different lifestyle than the one which you choose to live.

I fear this thread turning to a trollhaven soon...

Actually I doubt anyone deliberately chooses to become gay. While I do not support the idea that it's something people are born with, I tend to think it's a psychological condition that develops because of problems in the environment where a kid grows up and many other outside factors. Inherited mental particularities may also play the part. I don't know many gays nor bisexuals but those I've known all had either a more or less problematic childhood or a broken family or parents who themselves were not your everyday average people. It's rather clear that childhood does leave a mark on a developing personality. At the same time, yes, there are also people who turn it into a fashion statement.
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  08.01.2012 at 01:17
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 00:35
I don't know many gays nor bisexuals but those I've known all had either a more or less problematic childhood or a broken family or parents who themselves were not your everyday average people.

Not the case with my friends. I know two guys (both in university now, one for music study and the other for psychology) who both had - for all intents and purposes - a "normal" childhood.

One of them is Muslim and his family took a while to accept it, but at the end of the day they came to accept him for who he is.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 01:26
Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.01.2012 at 01:17

Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 00:35
I don't know many gays nor bisexuals but those I've known all had either a more or less problematic childhood or a broken family or parents who themselves were not your everyday average people.

Not the case with my friends. I know two guys (both in university now, one for music study and the other for psychology) who both had - for all intents and purposes - a "normal" childhood.

One of them is Muslim and his family took a while to accept it, but at the end of the day they came to accept him for who he is.


Yep, I also heard of a dude from a Muslim country who was a normal bloke and dated hot chicks. He later changed and switched to the other side but as I heard, it was because he met some new friends who introduced this culture to him and he grew to like it.
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 01:28
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 00:35

...but those I've known all had either a more or less problematic childhood or a broken family or parents who themselves were not your everyday average people. It's rather clear that childhood does leave a mark on a developing personality.

Well, for that matter, out of all the people I know from my own generation only 10% have parents with a functioning marriage, at least have of kids have at least one family member with an addiction to, well, whatever and God knows what not. And those who have been fortunate to have a solid family were stirred by other issues because the only people in this country who have had it easy during the 90's were criminals and people who profited from war. Frankly, I have no idea how our parents got by. Maybe my example is a bit extreme but look around you and see how many people have grew up with parents in a gender-equal, loving marriage/relationship. It's no wonder a lot of gays come from those families, a lot of people come from those families too.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 02:33
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 01:28

Maybe my example is a bit extreme but look around you and see how many people have grew up with parents in a gender-equal, loving marriage/relationship. It's no wonder a lot of gays come from those families, a lot of people come from those families too.

Sorry, but I didn't get your message very well. Yep, many families are unhappy and have problems. Of course, not all of them produce homosexual kids. However, unhappy families do leave marks on kids. It's inevitable.
Anyways, it's just that most homosexual people have those roots in family. It's all very complicated and it's hard to draw definitive conclusions. However, one thing is sure, one ain't born this way. No matter what Lady Gaga sings. You could then say that people are born kleptomaniacs/claustrophobics/agoraphobics or whatnot... you could also say that people are born rapists or paedophiles or zoophiles. Why do people say that homosexuality is something that one is "born with" when it hasn't been even proven.
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 02:38
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 02:33

reply

Well, my point was that, if a lot of families in the world aren't happy, that means that naturally a lot of gays will come from troubled families. And about being born with it... we obviously can't reach a conclusion but a lot of gay people say that, in retrospective, they could say that they've always felt "queer" and "inappropriate".
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 02:41
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 02:38

Well, my point was that, if a lot of families in the world aren't happy, that means that naturally a lot of gays will come from troubled families. And about being born with it... we obviously can't reach a conclusion but a lot of gay people say that, in retrospective, they could say that they've always felt "queer" and "inappropriate".

Maybe yes. We'll probably never know.
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  08.01.2012 at 02:44
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 02:38
they could say that they've always felt "queer" and "inappropriate".


Lols, I did not think of any deep shit until I was like 7 and I'm probably overreacting. Kids can barely locate their genitals at that age.
The thing is that I have a hard time thinking that they felt that way when they were little kids XP. But oh well... I'm down with homosexuals and bisexuals... Don't really care about it. I will never believe that you are born that way thought, unless until it's totally proven.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 02:51
Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 02:44

Lols, I did not think of any deep shit until I was like 7 and I'm probably overreacting. Kids can barely locate their genitals at that age.
The thing is that I have a hard time thinking that they felt that way when they were little kids XP. But oh well... I'm down with homosexuals and bisexuals... Don't really care about it. I will never believe that you are born that way thought, unless until it's totally proven.

I'm not saying sexually, I'm just saying... I've meant that, when they were kids, they've always felt a bit "off" about themselves. When you were a kid, when something important was going around you, could you feel the atmosphere? Could you feel that something is strange about people? Something similar went on with them.

And just so before anyone judges these comments, I'm a straight person who is pro-gay rights. But I think that, in an almost straight world, their sexual orientation, while it is not a sickness or deviation or anything like that, is certainly a peculiar thing and could be discussed as such.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  08.01.2012 at 02:55
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 02:51
Could you feel that something is strange about people?


Of course, I felt they were all fucking idiots
But yeah, I'm hetereo, one of my best pals in Chile is gay (AND cheerleader)... yeah, I'm cool with them.
I just like to poke around the subject when I hear someone say that it's totally natural. That's when I say "...no".
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 02:57
Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 02:55

...it's totally natural. That's when I say "...no".

Well, actually, animals are gay in the same percentage as people, if we're gonna be butthurt (no pun intended!) about it
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  08.01.2012 at 02:59
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 02:57
Well, actually, animals are gay in the same percentage as people, if we're gonna be butthurt (no pun intended!) about it


I don't see it as natural either in the most scientifically correct sense of the word... It's an anomaly, an error in the matrix It goes against biology because it doesn't produce any offspring. That's why it's not natural to me on a biologic basis, being acceptable is one hell of another subject though I'm still surprised with the amount of shit I got in some other forums for stating that and how few actually got my point and didn't think I was just some random homophobic.

People have this really shitty thought that natural = right. We do a lot of shit that is not natural, doesn't make it wrong just because of that.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 03:08
Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 02:59


I don't see it as natural either in the most scientifically correct sense of the word... It's an anomaly, an error in the matrix It goes against biology because it doesn't produce any offspring. That's why it's not natural to me on a biologic basis, being acceptable is one hell of another subject though I'm still surprised with the amount of shit I got in some other forums for stating that and how few actually got my point and didn't think I was just some random homophobic.

People have this really shitty thought that natural = right. We do a lot of shit that is not natural, doesn't make it wrong just because of that.

I usually don't use words such as "anomaly", because they tend to be thought of in a negative context. Nature has many ways of limiting offspring in one species, so perhaps this is a universal one and I'd consider it natural.

Yeah, in this day and age a lot of people think that accepting means you should be a part of the LGBT street team and totally mention something positive about being gay every couple of seconds. I've been mistaken for a homophobe once just because I said that kids adopted in gay marriages might be bullied by their peers for that and that it's best for a kid not to go through it. And the other people were all over me because "GAYS HAVE THE RIGHT TO RAISE KIDS". In a perfect world, sure. They might make great parents and make a child very happy. But how would the others perceive them. Kids bully other kids over everything, imagine this/
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 03:12
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 02:57

Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 02:55

...it's totally natural. That's when I say "...no".

Well, actually, animals are gay in the same percentage as people, if we're gonna be butthurt (no pun intended!) about it

A family living in a block across the street had dogs. They had one bitch and the other dogs were her pups. When the pups became adult, they liked to sniff and lick what was beneath the tail of their mum and also tried to mount her. That's called incest. Animals do it, it's natural... apparently. Why are we people so narrow-minded and don't accept it as something natural?

Also, in the countryside some cows humped each other. Lesbian cows probably.
Years ago my mother's friend left her dog at our place for some days. It was a female dog but she liked to hump things... your leg/the couch/the chair/whatever... apparently a lesbian dog...

Animals most logically just have the instinct to hump and/or be humped. They often don't pay attention to what they're humping.
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  08.01.2012 at 03:12
Written by Milena on 08.01.2012 at 03:08
I usually don't use words such as "anomaly", because they tend to be thought of in a negative context. Nature has many ways of limiting offspring in one species, so perhaps this is a universal one and I'd consider it natural.


Hhahhahah yeah, I get that sometimes but fuck it, words don't have any feelings unless you put them there, amiright fucktard? I think that people that get offended by words like that are pretty dense... Except fucktard, that is offensive.

To me, homosexuality is as much as an anomaly as oral sex, biologically speaking it doesn't do anything to the human race... It's just wrong because it doesn't help the goal that we have that is to create more offspring... Unless I'm proven wrong and they actually contribute to something but I doubt it.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  08.01.2012 at 03:17
Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 03:12

Hhahhahah yeah, I get that sometimes but fuck it, words don't have any feelings unless you put them there, amiright fucktard?
To me homosexuality is as much as an anomaly as oral sex, biologically speaking it doesn't do anything to the human race... It's just wrong because it doesn't help the goal that we have that is to create more offspring.. Unless I'm proven wrong and they actually contribute to something but I doubt it.

I agree with you here. Nevertheless, I think some people will bring forth the aspect that human beings don't associate sex with having kids any more and thus anomalies are treated as normalities.

I have to admit tho... oral sex with a woman I have feelings for makes me feel a bit bad. It's unnatural and unpleasant and has nothing beautiful about it. Oral sex with a whore or a one-night-chick is another thing because there's no feelings, just the dirty "fun".
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  08.01.2012 at 03:22
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 03:17
Nevertheless, I think some people will bring forth the aspect that human beings don't associate sex with having kids any more and thus anomalies are treated as normalities.

You know what I say to those who bring that argument?
Biology doesn't change for you and anybody.... It doesn't offend you, it doesn't benefit you, it does nothing to you. It just IS. Stuff like that doesn't change just because our mentality did.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  08.01.2012 at 10:56
Written by Mr. Doctor on 08.01.2012 at 02:44
I will never believe that you are born that way thought, unless until it's totally proven.

I don't know if there's a way to prove it (and I'm too lazy to search for something on Google), but two of the gay friends I was talking about earlier both knew from an early age that they weren't interested in women. One kissed a boy when he was in kindergarten, the other in third grade. And neither of them were brought up in environments that enforced any kind of "unnatural" behavior.

If anything, I had a better chance of being "turned" gay. I did a lot of... interesting things as a child. And I'm only somewhat experimental straight as fuck.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 12:59
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 03:12

Humans most logically just have the instinct to hump and/or be humped. They often don't pay attention to what they're humping.

I fixed your quote lol
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Slayer666

Posts: 2379

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  08.01.2012 at 21:29
Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.01.2012 at 10:56

I did a lot of... interesting things as a child.


Do tell.
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  09.01.2012 at 02:17
Written by Troy Killjoy on 08.01.2012 at 10:56
I did a lot of... interesting things as a child.

Tell me more tell me more does he have a car?
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6736

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  09.01.2012 at 02:46
All right... It should go to the funny stuff thread but as it's about a gay steward, it might as well as suit this one here...

----
Go ahead, make my day...
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  09.01.2012 at 03:07
Written by Slayer666 on 08.01.2012 at 21:29
Do tell.

There was some crossdressing, talent shows with singing and dancing, and maybe a little too much time spent thinking about what it's like to be a girl.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Slayer666

Posts: 2379

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  09.01.2012 at 10:00
Written by Troy Killjoy on 09.01.2012 at 03:07

There was some crossdressing, talent shows with singing and dancing, and maybe a little too much time spent thinking about what it's like to be a girl.


That's f-ing hot.
Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15272

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  09.01.2012 at 10:46
Written by Ernis on 09.01.2012 at 02:46

All right... It should go to the funny stuff thread but as it's about a gay steward, it might as well as suit this one here...


That was beautiful.





I really like this post number (8008), I'll stop for a while just to look at it.
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  09.01.2012 at 12:20
Written by Ernis on 08.01.2012 at 00:35
Actually I doubt anyone deliberately chooses to become gay. While I do not support the idea that it's something people are born with, I tend to think it's a psychological condition that develops because of problems in the environment where a kid grows up and many other outside factors. Inherited mental particularities may also play the part. I don't know many gays nor bisexuals but those I've known all had either a more or less problematic childhood or a broken family or parents who themselves were not your everyday average people. It's rather clear that childhood does leave a mark on a developing personality. At the same time, yes, there are also people who turn it into a fashion statement.


The major pitfall with this line of thought is there are lots of people who had bad childhoods who grow up to be straight, and many people with mental disorders stemming from that are also straight. At the same time, there surely are gay people who grew up in "normal" households, and had a run-of-the-mill childhoods. I have heard many gay people saying they believe they were born gay, and thinking about it logically, I'd be inclined to agree with them. The childhood/envoirnment arguements have too many contradictions and inaccuracies for them to carry any real weight. I didn't choose to be straight, I just am. I cannot control who I'm attracted to, and I doubt gay people are any different. They can't help being attracted to their own sex.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  09.01.2012 at 14:56
Written by Angelic Storm on 09.01.2012 at 12:20

I didn't choose to be straight, I just am. I cannot control who I'm attracted to, and I doubt gay people are any different. They can't help being attracted to their own sex.

Yes! Attractions just come naturally. A lot of people joke about having "gay" crushes but they're just aesthetic, at the end of the day. If you're straight, a person of your own sex just couldn't make your heart beat faster for real. Maybe the same is to gay people - I'd need to ask a gay person but I'm sure they're bothered by such questions daily so I wouldn't want to be a disturbance

I remember a line from Will and Grace, where Will was sad for some reason and that other gay dude who's name I can't remember told him:"Come on, cheer up, let's go to the park and laugh at straight people kissing." I found it very funny.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  09.01.2012 at 15:47
Written by Milena on 09.01.2012 at 14:56
Yes! Attractions just come naturally. A lot of people joke about having "gay" crushes but they're just aesthetic, at the end of the day. If you're straight, a person of your own sex just couldn't make your heart beat faster for real. Maybe the same is to gay people - I'd need to ask a gay person but I'm sure they're bothered by such questions daily so I wouldn't want to be a disturbance

I remember a line from Will and Grace, where Will was sad for some reason and that other gay dude who's name I can't remember told him:"Come on, cheer up, let's go to the park and laugh at straight people kissing." I found it very funny.


Exactly! Aesthetic attractions have nothing to do with your sexuality. If it did, we'd all be bisexual, even the most rampant homophobes. I can of course recognise beauty in other females (inner and outer), but it is completely aesthetic. I couldn't imagine doing anything with another female, or having a relationship with one. It's just not how I "roll".

Like I said, I don't believe being gay is a choice, because being straight isn't a choice. I couldn't choose to start having attractions to women beyond the aesthetic, so by the same token, I have no reason to believe that it's not the same for gay people. You can choose to defy your sexuality, but that isn't the same thing as choosing it. Attraction, the type where you get butterflies in your tummy, and feel sick, is beyond your control. If straight people can't control that, why think that gay people can?

And yes, I can imagine that to gay people, the idea of doing anything physically intimate with the opposite sex is just as repulsive as the idea of doing anything physically intimate with the same sex is to straight people.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  09.01.2012 at 16:00
Written by Angelic Storm on 09.01.2012 at 15:47

Exactly! Aesthetic attractions have nothing to do with your sexuality. If it did, we'd all be bisexual, even the most rampant homophobes. I can of course recognise beauty in other females (inner and outer), but it is completely aesthetic. I couldn't imagine doing anything with another female, or having a relationship with one. It's just not how I "roll".

Like I said, I don't believe being gay is a choice, because being straight isn't a choice. I couldn't choose to start having attractions to women beyond the aesthetic, so by the same token, I have no reason to believe that it's not the same for gay people. You can choose to defy your sexuality, but that isn't the same thing as choosing it. Attraction, the type where you get butterflies in your tummy, and feel sick, is beyond your control. If straight people can't control that, why think that gay people can?

And yes, I can imagine that to gay people, the idea of doing anything physically intimate with the opposite sex is just as repulsive as the idea of doing anything physically intimate with the same sex is to straight people.

*agrees*

Gays have it way harder than us though. They can't show affection anywhere, at least not here in Serbia. Most of them are scorned by their families. And I can't imagine a gay person holding a job for many years and not being harassed unless they lie. I live in a pretty homophobic country, and when I say I wouldn't mind being friends with a gay man/woman or seeing a gay couple kiss in the street, everyone looks at me like I'm not right in the head. I'm not saying everyone should be supportive, but homophobia is very dangerous. Same thing as racism really. A person who has such views should seek out a psychiatrist to discover what causes such negative views at an entire group of people, and heal his prejudice somehow.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."

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