‹‹ Back to the Melodic metal forum Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 [7]
Posts: 206  
Users visited: 276  
Search this topic:  


The original post

Posted by Lord TJ on 01.11.2007 at 19:59
Im doing a senior project on metal, can somebody help me out and tell me who the pioneers of power metal are? Thanks!



Page 7 of 7

Infernal Eternal

Posts: 531

Age: 100
From: Greece

  10.04.2012 at 10:43
Helloween is considered the first (european) power metal band. Euro-power and US power are quite different and many US power metal bands like Manowar are considered heavy metal. Agent Steel had a style similar to power metal but I don't think they are pioneers of the genre.
----
www.carnagedeathmetal.de - Awesome Fanzine
chronic-headache

Posts: 199
From: USA

  13.04.2012 at 00:43
I would say bands that helped pioneer the genre would be Helloween (big time), Iron Maiden, Stratovarius, Blind Guardian, Rhapsody (helped start the branch of symphonic epic power metal, but IDK if they could be counted as a pioneer)
bran

Posts: 157

Age: 27
From: USA

  13.04.2012 at 09:21
I think rainbow was the band that really kicked it off IMO i mean kill the king,gates of babylon,stargazer etc are pretty much the foundation of power metal
----
top 5 albums of 2012 so far.

1. wintersun- time I
2. woods of ypres- woods V grey skies and electric light
3. agalloch- faustian echoes EP
4. the slow death- II
5. kreator- phantom antichrist
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36410

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  17.04.2012 at 04:35
Written by bran on 13.04.2012 at 09:21

I think rainbow was the band that really kicked it off IMO i mean kill the king,gates of babylon,stargazer etc are pretty much the foundation of power metal


Of course they are the band that pioneered it. I still find it baffling that some people here posting in this thread are trying to deny that,
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

bran

Posts: 157

Age: 27
From: USA

  17.04.2012 at 07:51
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.04.2012 at 04:35

Written by bran on 13.04.2012 at 09:21

I think rainbow was the band that really kicked it off IMO i mean kill the king,gates of babylon,stargazer etc are pretty much the foundation of power metal


Of course they are the band that pioneered it. I still find it baffling that some people here posting in this thread are trying to deny that,


i know it is kind of baffling
----
top 5 albums of 2012 so far.

1. wintersun- time I
2. woods of ypres- woods V grey skies and electric light
3. agalloch- faustian echoes EP
4. the slow death- II
5. kreator- phantom antichrist
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  21.04.2012 at 04:47
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.04.2012 at 04:35

Written by bran on 13.04.2012 at 09:21

I think rainbow was the band that really kicked it off IMO i mean kill the king,gates of babylon,stargazer etc are pretty much the foundation of power metal


Of course they are the band that pioneered it. I still find it baffling that some people here posting in this thread are trying to deny that,


Actually, I'd kind of like to see how you two really qualify that idea. I mean, did Rainbow really "pioneer" power metal, and if so, how? There certainly is no doubt that Rainbow and Dio's other work were an inspiration, but to actually say "pioneer" is another idea altogether.

Now, I'll admit that I've already posted in this thread, stating that Helloween is (IMO) the first power metal band, the guys who pioneered the sound that became power metal (a fusion of thrash and Iron Maiden, really). However, for what it's worth, I decided to listen to Rainbow's first three albums (which include the aforementioned songs) before I responded to your posts, and I admit I had a hard time even considering them heavy metal (though I can see them as a bridge between Led Zeppelin and NWOBHM).

I know that a lot of this is just a matter of personal taste and semantics, but I'm pretty adamant that a metal genre (and all music, really) should be defined by the sounds and musical theory it uses, not by things like content or lyrics. Some people (read: Sam Dunn) state that Rainbow is power metal because they were one of the first hard rock bands to have overtly fantasy-like lyrics, but I don't think that's good enough. I believe that if a band has death metal riffs and rhythms with death metal vocals, it's death metal, regardless if the lyrics are about decapitation or Hello Kitty. And just because Rainbow's songs are big and epic doesn't necessarily make them power metal either.

Let me say that I'm not calling Rainbow a bad band and I'm certainly not debating their influence, but I really want to come down on the difference between "inspiration" and "pioneer." Saying that Rainbow "pioneered" power metal is like saying Discharge and Diamond Head "pioneered" thrash, or Metallica "pioneered" death metal, or Deep Purple "pioneered" NWOBHM. You can see the connections, but it feels a bit off or overreaching (in my opinion, anyway).

So, now that I've given my reasons why I think Rainbow isn't Power Metal (let alone a pioneer), what makes you guys say that Rainbow IS such a pioneer?
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18293
From: Canada

  21.04.2012 at 05:40
Written by bj_waters on 21.04.2012 at 04:47
Some people (read: Sam Dunn) state that Rainbow is power metal because they were one of the first hard rock bands to have overtly fantasy-like lyrics, but I don't think that's good enough. I believe that if a band has death metal riffs and rhythms with death metal vocals, it's death metal, regardless if the lyrics are about decapitation or Hello Kitty

Agree completely with this. Pretty much why I dislike goregrind and pornogrind as genres... they're just grindcore with gore- or porn-themed lyrics, but still musically grindcore.

Same rule applies to people trying to label Amon Amarth as viking metal because they sing about Vikings.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Boxcar Willy
*sigh*

Posts: 7108

Age: 17
From: Canada

  21.04.2012 at 06:44
*cough* Thread from 2007 *cough*
----
waste of space
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18293
From: Canada

  21.04.2012 at 06:50
Written by Boxcar Willy on 21.04.2012 at 06:44
*cough* Thread from 2007 *cough*

One of many. Do you have a rule against posting in old threads?
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Boxcar Willy
*sigh*

Posts: 7108

Age: 17
From: Canada

  21.04.2012 at 06:53
Written by Troy Killjoy on 21.04.2012 at 06:50

Written by Boxcar Willy on 21.04.2012 at 06:44
*cough* Thread from 2007 *cough*

One of many. Do you have a rule against posting in old threads?

Not at all, I just find it funny that he asked for this info, when he was in high school 5 years ago.

Anyway I don't know a helluva lot about power metal so I'm just going to leave now.

kthxbai
----
waste of space
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3539

Age: 24
From: India

  21.04.2012 at 08:04
Every guy who whack his post no matter what knows that Manowar are the pioneers of Power Metal and still they don't post it to get bashed arbitrary.
----
R'Vannith
Spiralmind

Posts: 2718

Age: 22
From: Australia

  21.04.2012 at 16:25
Written by bj_waters on 21.04.2012 at 04:47

So, now that I've given my reasons why I think Rainbow isn't Power Metal (let alone a pioneer), what makes you guys say that Rainbow IS such a pioneer?


At the end of the day I don't think you can sit down and definitively pinpoint the exact origins of music of any kind. You can refer to various possibilities which may have led to the development of a genre.

As for your question, I don't think Rainbow is Power metal at all. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't have some sort of influence on the genre in its emergence. When you identify particular bands which were first identified as Power metal, such as Helloween, most likely they would have heard of Rainbow. To what extent Helloween implemented what they found in Rainbow's music is not only difficult for the listener to identify, but I daresay even for the bands themselves.

Now whether this influence amounts to "pioneering" isn't exactly a simple question to answer, and in some cases its not as simple to disprove either. It's an ongoing discussion I suppose, as it would be in many cases of identifying genre origins. Music often as straightforward and clear cut as we imagine it is, there are many blurred lines given the sheer size of its scope, even narrowing things down to a particular genre doesn't guarantee you at all to find absolutely certain answers or parameters.
bran

Posts: 157

Age: 27
From: USA

  27.04.2012 at 10:25
I just think rainbow layed down the foundation that every other power metal band would use the lyrics and the imagery. kill the king is a perfect example of a song that really is the proto type power metal song.
----
top 5 albums of 2012 so far.

1. wintersun- time I
2. woods of ypres- woods V grey skies and electric light
3. agalloch- faustian echoes EP
4. the slow death- II
5. kreator- phantom antichrist
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  28.04.2012 at 02:48
Written by R'Vannith on 21.04.2012 at 16:25

At the end of the day I don't think you can sit down and definitively pinpoint the exact origins of music of any kind. You can refer to various possibilities which may have led to the development of a genre.

As for your question, I don't think Rainbow is Power metal at all. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't have some sort of influence on the genre in its emergence. When you identify particular bands which were first identified as Power metal, such as Helloween, most likely they would have heard of Rainbow. To what extent Helloween implemented what they found in Rainbow's music is not only difficult for the listener to identify, but I daresay even for the bands themselves.

Now whether this influence amounts to "pioneering" isn't exactly a simple question to answer, and in some cases its not as simple to disprove either. It's an ongoing discussion I suppose, as it would be in many cases of identifying genre origins. Music often as straightforward and clear cut as we imagine it is, there are many blurred lines given the sheer size of its scope, even narrowing things down to a particular genre doesn't guarantee you at all to find absolutely certain answers or parameters.


I've already admitted that musical definitions can be very personal and drawn on semantics, but I still think that definite origins can be determined, like Metallica is the origin of Thrash Metal. Of course, such origins are defined by rules, so if my rule is that power metal is stuff like Stratovarius, DragonForce, and Hammerfall, then it makes sense that Helloween is going to be my originator. I know that Helloween is often credited for being the pioneer of European or melodic power metal, but I find that I have a hard time accepting anything else as power metal. For example:

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 21.04.2012 at 08:04

Every guy who whack his post no matter what knows that Manowar are the pioneers of Power Metal and still they don't post it to get bashed arbitrary.


Manowar is a band that quite often gets mentioned as a "pioneer" of power metal, but what did they do, exactly, that leads to power metal? I've listened to the first handful of Manowar albums and all I hear is an American Judas Priest. Is Judas Priest power metal? (@Sam Dunn: NO! (I know he changed it later.)) The same could be said for a lot of other so-called "power metal" bands. Accept? German Judas Priest. Scorpions? German Deep Purple/Rainbow. Malmsteen? Iron Maiden with more noodly leads. This is why I think that Helloween really were doing something different: they were taking the intensity of thrash metal and adding the upbeat and melodic nature of NWOBHM (especially Iron Maiden). I really feel like this is something that can be analyzed and determined and not just simply be opinions (though I won't deny that this is still very opinionated).

Again, I'm not denying these band's influences. I'm certain that we wouldn't have Helloween and the rest of power metal without Rainbow, Manowar, Accept, and Malmsteen, but calling them power metal when they still sound so much like traditional heavy metal seems so inconsistent and vague, as if no one really knows what power metal is (and I'm saying that we do).

Written by bran on 27.04.2012 at 10:25

I just think rainbow layed down the foundation that every other power metal band would use the lyrics and the imagery. kill the king is a perfect example of a song that really is the proto type power metal song.


While I'm not debating Rainbow's direct influence (Stratovarius has a live cover of the song on their Intermission compilation), I just don't think it's a good enough reason to call Rainbow a "pioneer" of power metal. It's like saying Led Zeppelin is a "pioneer" of viking metal because they "laid the foundation" with "The Immigrant Song." There were lots of other bands that had fantasy lyrics and epic sounds (prog rock, anyone?), Rainbow just ended up being the one that power metal bands later covered and mentioned as an influence.
Aristarchos

Posts: 754

Age: 29
From: Sweden
  20.11.2012 at 13:22
Nobody mentioned Uriah Heep yet? They weren't exactly power metal, but they definitely had a big influence on the genre, and were earlier than Rainbow. Many power metal bands have mentioned them as a big influence and have covered them. Just listen to songs like "Pilgrim" and "Return To Fantasy".

Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37716

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  21.11.2012 at 21:29
Written by Aristarchos on 20.11.2012 at 13:22

Nobody mentioned Uriah Heep yet? They weren't exactly power metal, but they definitely had a big influence on the genre, and were earlier than Rainbow. Many power metal bands have mentioned them as a big influence and have covered them. Just listen to songs like "Pilgrim" and "Return To Fantasy".


Interesting point, they were(is special band, quate unique, I cant remeber band name but I saw once live on TV they were like wizards on stage .... damn it was popular band, well know inm underground. damn cant remeber they us eto have one hit what was often on VH1

Eddit band calls Wizzard - they could be also pioneers
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Guib

Posts: 2051

Age: 23
From: Canada

  24.11.2012 at 19:15
I don't know what people are talking about but eh... Rainbow is definitely a pioneer in Power Metal.. Musically and Lyrically. how can one deny that ? And then, it would be Helloween.
----
- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37716

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  24.11.2012 at 20:21
Written by Guib on 24.11.2012 at 19:15

I don't know what people are talking about but eh... Rainbow is definitely a pioneer in Power Metal.. Musically and Lyrically. how can one deny that ? And then, it would be Helloween.


musicaly Dio era albums dont sounds like chease .... its more HM how flower if we talk about sound ,
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36410

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  24.11.2012 at 20:26
If people start mentioning Uriah Heep as pioneers of peower metal one might just as well mention Deep Purple as such. Extremely far-fetched to call either a pioneer fo PM
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  24.11.2012 at 20:45
Written by Guib on 24.11.2012 at 19:15

I don't know what people are talking about but eh... Rainbow is definitely a pioneer in Power Metal.. Musically and Lyrically. how can one deny that ? And then, it would be Helloween.


As I've stated previously in this thread, there needs to be a line between INSPIRATION and PIONEER. I don't consider Rainbow a pioneer because they weren't playing anything like the power metal we have today (I think of it as half-way between Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest). However, I can't deny that Rainbow is an INSPIRATION for the power metal bands that came later. For me, Helloween was the first PIONEER of power metal because they were the first to combine the speed of thrash with the melodies of Iron Maiden.

I know that I'm being limiting by insisting that European Power Metal is the only Power Metal, but I feel that it sounds distinctly different from Heavy Metal (which is where I put Rainbow, Dio, Manowar, Accept, etc.).

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.11.2012 at 20:26

If people start mentioning Uriah Heep as pioneers of peower metal one might just as well mention Deep Purple as such. Extremely far-fetched to call either a pioneer fo PM


Aristarchos only mentioned them as an influence, which could also be said for Deep Purple. Don't get me wrong, all of these bands are important for shaping the sound of Power Metal. I just think they should be labelled as "inspirations" and not "pioneers" like Helloween, Blind Guardian, Stratovarius, etc.
Iamawalker

Posts: 255
From: Norway

  29.11.2012 at 19:10
If we draw a clear line between European Power and American Power, then it sure looks like the first three Helloween albums is the foundation, or at least an important part of it, of the European style. If the real and true Power Metal sits right in the middle of Heavy Metal and Thrash Metal (many people feel this way), then I think it's fair to consider Helloween, Blind Guardian, Stratovarius, Gamma Ray, etc to be among the foundation of the European style, which is noticeably more uplifting and melodic overall than the American style right? If we go by these "rules" then Rainbow and even Iron Maiden is not within that genre, even though there are definite similarities as well as influences to be seen, as in lyrical content and atmosphere and such.

I fully agree with bj_waters in this, even though I do not claim to be any kind of expert or enclyclopaedia on the matter. Though I don't really like to be nazi on genres and usually find these word-wars back and forth regarding this a bit silly, I still think there should be a reason for why a particular band is called Heavy, Power or Thrash, etc.
Delvestius

Posts: 14

Age: 21
From: USA

  08.12.2012 at 00:20
I'd give Rainbow the title of greatest power-metal "inspirerer". Pioneers, I'd say Helloween, Blind Guardian and Stratovarious. In America, Manowar really kicked it off.
Aristarchos

Posts: 754

Age: 29
From: Sweden
  31.12.2012 at 21:59
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.11.2012 at 20:26

If people start mentioning Uriah Heep as pioneers of peower metal one might just as well mention Deep Purple as such. Extremely far-fetched to call either a pioneer fo PM

I think Uriah Heep has a sound closer to power metal than Deep Purple has, and they also had the fantasy lyrics. Demons And Wizards even took their name from a Uriah Heep album. Both Blind Guardian and Gamma Ray have covered Uriah Heep songs, and both bands mention Uriah Heep as one of their main influences. But of course Deep Purple had an influence on power metal too, especially their song "Highway Star", which sometimes is called the first speed metal song, and contains a classically-influenced solo.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37716

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  12.01.2013 at 15:06
Written by Aristarchos on 31.12.2012 at 21:59

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.11.2012 at 20:26

If people start mentioning Uriah Heep as pioneers of peower metal one might just as well mention Deep Purple as such. Extremely far-fetched to call either a pioneer fo PM

I think Uriah Heep has a sound closer to power metal than Deep Purple has, and they also had the fantasy lyrics. Demons And Wizards even took their name from a Uriah Heep album. Both Blind Guardian and Gamma Ray have covered Uriah Heep songs, and both bands mention Uriah Heep as one of their main influences. But of course Deep Purple had an influence on power metal too, especially their song "Highway Star", which sometimes is called the first speed metal song, and contains a classically-influenced solo.


lyrics is nothing to do whit power metal, flower metal is muisc and melody not lyrics, black metal band and death metal can sing about dragons and still be in style
melody make style not lyrics

@those who talk about Stratovarius --- have you ever have herad Fight Night?
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  12.01.2013 at 21:13
Written by Bad English on 12.01.2013 at 15:06

@those who talk about Stratovarius --- have you ever have herad Fight Night?


Yyyyyyeeeeeeeessssssssss? I'm assuming Fright Night (I have to admit I have hard time reading some your posts, Bad English), but I'm not sure what you're getting at. I would consider the song to be early power metal, mostly because it reminds me so much of Helloween's "Halloween" that I don't think it's a coincidence (I think I posted elsewhere that I think all Tolkki listens to is Kai-Hansen-era Helloween, Iron Maiden, and Malmsteen).
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37716

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  12.01.2013 at 21:21
Written by bj_waters on 12.01.2013 at 21:13

Written by Bad English on 12.01.2013 at 15:06

@those who talk about Stratovarius --- have you ever have herad Fight Night?


Yyyyyyeeeeeeeessssssssss? I'm assuming Fright Night (I have to admit I have hard time reading some your posts, Bad English), but I'm not sure what you're getting at. I would consider the song to be early power metal, mostly because it reminds me so much of Helloween's "Halloween" that I don't think it's a coincidence (I think I posted elsewhere that I think all Tolkki listens to is Kai-Hansen-era Helloween, Iron Maiden, and Malmsteen).


I wish Richard was here once he said something when guy tray put Iron maiden to flower
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing

Advertise on Metal Storm
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 [7]


Login or register to post here.



Similar topics

Forum Topic Similarity Started
Melodic metal forum Generic European Power Metal - Good Or Bad? 4.5 13.05.2007 by Judas
Melodic metal forum Dying Fire 4.5 19.04.2007 by APOHAKC
Melodic metal forum Magica 4.5 17.05.2006 by Bas
Melodic metal forum Katagory V - Progressive Power metal 4 16.08.2006 by Hellish Star
Melodic metal forum List Of Essential Power Metal Albums 4 16.05.2011 by