15:53 - Bad English Frili same here ;) but try drinking regularry as alcoholic they seems sleap, but I dontr ecomend it
15:49 - Gawain dima care to explain better what you mean by expand my points more? i don't understand . i think i expanded well enough in that review.?
15:49 - Fritillaria Isn't there anther way ? Less painful ?
15:47 - Gawain jump head first on concrete. that should put you in a coma for at least three months.
15:46 - Fritillaria I wish I could find a way to sleep for two or three months
Please write your opinions on the list, if you have any. I'm not doing this list because I consider myself as an expert more than other people here, but because I think it is interesting to discuss things like this. I might be wrong in many cases, and I would only be glad if you correct me about any of my "mistakes", if you find any, or suggest other bands that deserves to be on the list. I have tried to only include bands that are fully accepted as metal, why many alternative bands are excluded.
Black Sabbath The first band considered as metal. All their influence could not be described.
2.
Judas Priest They brought in more melody to metal, added the twin guitar and created the traditional heavy metal sound.
3.
Iron Maiden Has had a huge influence on all kind of melodic metal and also on early thrash metal bands.
4.
Motörhead The first band to mix metal with punk. Had a major influence on the thrash genre.
5.
Venom Usually considered as the first extreme metal band. Influenced genres like black metal and thrash metal.
6.
Metallica The first thrash metal band to record an album. Have influenced numerous bands in different genres.
7.
Slayer Brought in hardcore influences in thrash metal to make it more extreme, and influenced a genre like death metal.
8.
Celtic Frost The first band to be described as avant-garde metal. Have had a big influence on different genres like death, black, gothic and symphonic metal.
9.
Bathory Usually considered as the first pure black metal band. They also created the viking metal genre.
10.
Helloween They created the power metal genre, and have influenced most of the bands in the genre since.
11.
Possessed Had a huge influence on early death metal.
12.
Death Created what many considered as the first pure death metal.
13.
Pantera They started the groove metal genre and influenced genres like nu metal, metalcore and other forms of alternative metal.
14.
Godflesh Created the industrial metal genre (or at least was one of the originators). Had a major influence on post metal, and also influenced drone metal and other forms of alternative metal.
15.
Morbid Angel Brought in ultra-speed to death metal.
Napalm Death The first grindcore band along with Repulsion.
24.
Kreator Influenced the death and black metal genres.
25.
Sepultura Started as a death/thrash metal band but had their biggest impact on genres like nu metal and metalcore.
26.
Dream Theater Took the progressive influences more further into metal than any band before them.
27.
Mayhem Although bands like Burzum, Emperor and Darkthrone have had a bigger influence for later black metal, Mayhem was the band that started the 2nd wave black metal.
Manowar Made the metal more epic and bombastic. Influenced the power metal genre and also the viking metal genre.
30.
Candlemass Bands like Pentagram, Trouble and Saint Vitus were earlier, but it was Candlemass who made the genre popular and influenced most forth-coming bands.
31.
Watchtower The first technical thrash metal band, and to many also the first prog metal band.
Repulsion Along with Napalm Death, the first grindcore band.
36.
Pentagram The first band that took Black Sabbath's doom metal sound further, although they didn't release any album until the 1980's.
37.
Trouble One of the bands that is responsible for the creation of doom metal as a genre.
38.
Saint Vitus Together with Trouble and Pentagram, they are responsible for the doom metal genre. They also brought in some punk influences to doom metal.
39.
Entombed As Nihilist they could be said to be responsible for the swedish death metal scene. They brought in a hardcore element to death metal, and had a big influence for the evolution towards melodic death metal, and also started death 'n' roll
I'd give Godflesh credit for industrial metal over Ministry, but otherwise, solid list.
I haven't heard any of Godflesh's music nor any of Ministry's 80's albums (I will check them out), so I couldn't say who was the first to play industrial metal. Godflesh released their first ep in 1988 and their first full-length in 1989. Were they industrial metal from the beginning? Ministry released "The Land of Rape and Honey" in 1988 and "The Mind Is a Terrible Thing to Taste" in 1989. I know there are some discussions about when they really became a metal band, but yet I can't have any opinion. Godflesh isn't as famous as Ministry, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be as important as Ministry. Do you think they deserve to be on the list instead of Ministry? Since they started to play industrial metal almost at the same time, perhaps they evolved independent of each other from common influences? I know there were other bands like Killing Joke who wasn't metal but had a major influence on the genre, so perhaps none of them have been influential enough on their own to reach top 20? I also have no idea what bands like Nine Inch Nails mentions as main influence, nor who has been most influential for later industrial metal bands.
By the way, thanks for sharing your point of view!
I have now checked out 80's Godflesh and 80's Ministry and read more about Godflesh, and now I understand that they have had been more influential than Ministry for industrial metal, and I also now see where the post metal genre comes from, so I replaced Ministry with Godflesh on my list. I also found Godflesh's music much more amusing than Ministry's (especially than their 80's records). Godflesh didn't sounded as commercial and poppy as Ministry, although I don't understand why they sometimes are labelled as grindcore.
This expansion was the toughest so far. Of course it is always difficult to compare bands in different genres, but this time I found it more difficult than before to compare the influences within genres, especially with the traditional doom metal bands. How to compare the influence of Pentagram, Trouble and Saint Vitus?
Pentagram was the first band and recorded demos in the 70's, although they didn't record any album until 1985. I'm not sure how much the 80's doom bands were influenced by them, or directly by Black Sabbath, but I guess they at least were familiar with them. I know Lee Dorrian (Cathedral) have mentioned Trouble as his favourite band and if I'm not wrong also Candlemass has mentioned Trouble as an influence, but I'm not sure how much they were influenced by Saint Vitus or Pentagram. Saint Vitus had a punkier sound and had probably an influence on the developement of sludge metal. When it comes to death doom I know My Dying Bride mentions Candlemass, along with Celtic Frost and Bathory, as there main influences. I haven't heard what other death doom bands like Paradise Lost and Anathema have mentioned as their doom influences.
I placed Candlemass some positions over the other three, despite the fact that the other were earlier, because I suppose they have been more influential for the 90's and 00's doom scene. I have heard far more bands sounding like Candlemass than like the other three, and I'm not sure how much influence Trouble, Saint Vitus and Pentagram have had on modern doom metal, except for some retro-doom bands like Witchcraft, Reverend Bizarre and Gates of Slumber.
I know there is Witchfinder General too, but I'm not sure how much influence they have had.
I guess if I'm wrong about something, or there is something more to add, there is at least one 40+ doom expert who will correct me.
Finally I will also say that the only of the main genres I have excluded on the list so far is folk metal. That is not my genre, and I don't know if there is any singular band who deserves to be in the list. I know that Skyclad is considered to be the first folk metal band, but I have no idea of how much later folk metal bands were influenced directly from them, or developed sound independently of them, since there are so many different forms of folk music to take influences from, and it also took so many years from Skyclad until the genre became big.
"Theatre Of Tragedy
Created the beauty and the beast sound."
I don't know who started that beauty and beast sound but by the time Thetre Of Tragedy started The Gathering already had released two demo's and two full length studio albums which featured beauty and beast vocals
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2012 at 12:55 I don't know who started that beauty and beast sound but by the time Thetre Of Tragedy started The Gathering already had released two demo's and two full length studio albums which featured beauty and beast vocals
Also Paradise Lost featured some female vocals on Gothic by 1992... I still would say ToT are pretty influential in the gothic metal area... just not because of what has been written here.
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2012 at 12:55 I don't know who started that beauty and beast sound but by the time Thetre Of Tragedy started The Gathering already had released two demo's and two full length studio albums which featured beauty and beast vocals
Also Paradise Lost featured some female vocals on Gothic by 1992... I still would say ToT are pretty influential in the gothic metal area... just not because of what has been written here.
Although Gothic featured some female vocals I wouldn't call the use of it there beauty and beast style because there really is no interaction between Nick's grunts the female vocals unlike what The Gathering did en ToT as well.
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2012 at 12:55 I don't know who started that beauty and beast sound but by the time Thetre Of Tragedy started The Gathering already had released two demo's and two full length studio albums which featured beauty and beast vocals
Also Paradise Lost featured some female vocals on Gothic by 1992... I still would say ToT are pretty influential in the gothic metal area... just not because of what has been written here.
1992? / Gothic is from March 1991
I am not sure if The Gathering's second demo had already been released at the time, but their first demo was already a year old. And at that time of their first demo The Gathering had already played with Paradise Lost in The Netherlands. So it wouldn't surprise me that GOOD old The Gathering influenced Paradise Lost into using female vocals for the Gothic album.
No Napalm Death? they are more influential to Grindcore then Carcass are.
I definitely agree that Napalm Death has been more influential to grindcore than Carcass, but I think of early Napalm Death more like a grindcore punk band than a grindcore metal band, and I wouldn't say their later death metal albums have been that influential, why I excluded them. Carcass was more death metal, and especially with "Heartwork" they also influenced melodic death metal.
Perhaps early Napalm Death deserves to be accepted as metal, and therefore also included in the list. It was a while ago I listened to them so I actually don't remember exactly how metallic they were, but I have heard them talking more of hardcore influences than metal influences. I'm not personally a fan of the whole grindcore genre. The only band I really enjoy in it is Terrorizer.
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2012 at 12:55 I don't know who started that beauty and beast sound but by the time Thetre Of Tragedy started The Gathering already had released two demo's and two full length studio albums which featured beauty and beast vocals
Also Paradise Lost featured some female vocals on Gothic by 1992... I still would say ToT are pretty influential in the gothic metal area... just not because of what has been written here.
1992? / Gothic is from March 1991
I am not sure if The Gathering's second demo had already been released at the time, but their first demo was already a year old. And at that time of their first demo The Gathering had already played with Paradise Lost in The Netherlands. So it wouldn't surprise me that GOOD old The Gathering influenced Paradise Lost into using female vocals for the Gothic album.
Yes, I formulated myself incorrectly. I know Paradise Lost and The Gathering were earlier. Actually, I haven't heard early The Gathering, so I couldn't say how they sound, but I have heard Paradise Lost's Gothic album, and I wouldn't call it beauty and the beast in the vain of Theatre of Tragedy. According to wikipedia "Paradise Lost and The Gathering had already made use of [the beauy and the beast] technique on some songs from their earlier albums but it was the Norwegian Theatre of Tragedy that first released an entire album devoted to this approach with their self-titled debut in 1995.".
The Gathering was definitely one of the candidates for the list. I'm not sure how many bands have mentioned them as an influence; probably a couple, since they were one of the originators of its genre; but I really had no idea they even could have been influential for Paradise Lost. I have only heard Paradise Lost talking about Celtic Frost as an influence. I haven't found what Theatre of Tragedy mentions as their main influence, but probably they were influenced by both Paradise Lost and The Gathering. Neither I'm not sure of how much later beauty and the beast bands were influenced by The Gathering or most by Theatre of Tragedy.
This list really gets harder the longer I make it, but as long as noone has any more objections, except from my formulation, I will keep Theatre of Tragedy over The Gathering until further.
Perhaps early Napalm Death deserves to be accepted as metal, and therefore also included in the list. It was a while ago I listened to them so I actually don't remember exactly how metallic they were, but I have heard them talking more of hardcore influences than metal influences. I'm not personally a fan of the whole grindcore genre. The only band I really enjoy in it is Terrorizer.
By early Napalm Death I assume you are talking about the Scum / From Enslavement to obliteration era (their first two albums) They are Definitely Hardcore Influenced but More than Metal enough to get on this list, Even some of their later demo's could get on this list. I see what you are trying to say though, As Grind is in that Grey area between Metal and Punk, I just don't agree with it.
Perhaps early Napalm Death deserves to be accepted as metal, and therefore also included in the list. It was a while ago I listened to them so I actually don't remember exactly how metallic they were, but I have heard them talking more of hardcore influences than metal influences. I'm not personally a fan of the whole grindcore genre. The only band I really enjoy in it is Terrorizer.
By early Napalm Death I assume you are talking about the Scum / From Enslavement to obliteration era (their first two albums) They are Definitely Hardcore Influenced but More than Metal enough to get on this list, Even some of their later demo's could get on this list. I see what you are trying to say though, As Grind is in that Grey area between Metal and Punk, I just don't agree with it.
Yes, I'm talking about their first two albums. I don't know how influential their later albums have been. But you win, I will add them. I decided to give them number 19, I hope that is appropriate. Since grindcore (or any hardcore/metal hybrid genre) isn't my genre, I'm not sure if any of the other early grindcore bands deserve to be on the list as well.
I have now expanded the list into a top 80. Since I think I've already brought most of the classic influential bands, I now focused on more modern bands (last 20 years). But if you still think some band is missing, there is always possibilites for further expansions.
If you are going to discuss Alternative Metal, Jane's Addiction is probably more influential than FNM. while FNM was more popular, Jane's Addiction was also very popular back in the day. Their approach included artsy elements, but particularly on "Nothing's Shocking" (which came out in 1988, pre-dating FNM's rise to more mainstream prominence with "The Real Thing") and the first half of "Ritual..." is far more inline with traditional metal, especially in regards to guitar solos.
and while FNM got more radio play, that whole Lollapalooza thing, which for the first 4-5 years was hugely important for promoting alternative music, which incorporated a lot of various styles (including metal), was originally created by Perry Farrel as the Jane's Addiction farewell tour.
if FNM deserves a Top 10 spot in regards to influence, Jane's merits inclusion in the top 80...
If you are going to discuss Alternative Metal, Jane's Addiction is probably more influential than FNM. while FNM was more popular, Jane's Addiction was also very popular back in the day. Their approach included artsy elements, but particularly on "Nothing's Shocking" (which came out in 1988, pre-dating FNM's rise to more mainstream prominence with "The Real Thing") and the first half of "Ritual..." is far more inline with traditional metal, especially in regards to guitar solos.
and while FNM got more radio play, that whole Lollapalooza thing, which for the first 4-5 years was hugely important for promoting alternative music, which incorporated a lot of various styles (including metal), was originally created by Perry Farrel as the Jane's Addiction farewell tour.
if FNM deserves a Top 10 spot in regards to influence, Jane's merits inclusion in the top 80...
Thanks for your comment!
First of all I must say that I'm not a big fan of alternative metal overall, and I'm not sure of how influential different bands have been.
I see a lot bands mention FNM as an influence; for example I have seen KoRn mentioned them as their main influences. I know KoRn have mentioned Jane's too as an influence (as well as they have mentioned a lot other bands). I have also heard Rage Against The Machine talking about Jane's Addiction as a big influence, but I think they were influenced by FNM too.
The big question I want to ask is whether Jane's Addiction really could be accepted as metal. If they really are, then why aren't they featured on metalstorm? I'm not sure if FNM really is fully accepted as metal either and I hesitated a lot before I included them. But FNM is at least tagged as alternative metal on this site, and even featured on metalarchives.com, something that not many alternative metal bands are.
Perhaps I have overrated the influence of FNM, but I have seen them mentioned as the inventor of the entire alternative metal genre (for example on wikipedia; I know it's not a reliable source)? Perhaps the best thing to do is to exclude both FNM and Jane's on the list?
By the way, why isn't Graveland featured on MS? I suppose it is because their nazis, but then why is Burzum featured? I hate nazis so I respect the exclusion, I just wonder what is the difference.
By the way, why isn't Graveland featured on MS? I suppose it is because their nazis, but then why is Burzum featured? I hate nazis so I respect the exclusion, I just wonder what is the difference.
I thought the same thing, both bands are very similar in that aspects. Both musicians have ideologies that can be linked to far-right, though they don't express themselves as NS (Darken even said NS isn't the way to go nowadays, that other forms should take it's place).
And most importantly, both bands make a clear distinction between the person behind the project and the band itself (clearly stating they don't want their ideologies to be mixed to the band).
Main diference probably is that Burzum has a more mystic/legends/darkness theme, while Graveland is very focused on honor, pride and homeland, which makes some people think it's automatically NS (I don't have Graveland booklets near me, but I think there weren't any strict NS reference...).
Savatage is band who probably have very much influences in creating of gothic/symphonic metal from their Gutter Ballet to their last album Poets And Madmen.
Savatage is band who probably have very much influences in creating of gothic/symphonic metal from their Gutter Ballet to their last album Poets And Madmen.
I already have Savatage on number 47. Don't you think that is enough for them?
How about bands that influenced Crossover like Suicidal Tendencies, S.O.D., D.R.I.?
Actually I had that genre in mind, but since that is one genre I don't listen to I excluded them for two reasons.
1. Since I don't listen to them I'm not sure how metal that genre is, or if it is more hardcore, but I guess it's metal enough to include, but that wasn't my main reason to exclude these bands.
2. My main reason for excluding these bands: Since I don't listen to that genre I don't know what bands who have been most influential for that genre, and deserves to be included.
So, if you first convince me that it is metal enough for this list, and then teach me a little more about the history of crossover thrash I will include at least one of them.
How about bands that influenced Crossover like Suicidal Tendencies, S.O.D., D.R.I.?
Since I haven't got any reply yet I will add these band just outside top 100. If I find, or anyone gives me, a better description of the history of crossover I might adjust it later. And wasn't Corrosion Of Conformity quite influential in that genre too? I'm thinking of adding them too.
How about bands that influenced Crossover like Suicidal Tendencies, S.O.D., D.R.I.?
I have checked out the crossover thrash bands now. They sounded more interesting than I had expected. Especially liked Suicidal Tendencies - Lights Camera Revolution and Carnivore - Retaliation. Still not sure which of these bands that deserves to be highest on the list. Anyway I included Carnivore too in the list for their influence on for example the sludge genre.
Anyway I included Carnivore too in the list for their influence on for example the sludge genre.
wtf?
I have read an interview with Crowbar in Sweden Rock Magazine where they mention Carnivore as one of their major influences, and according to the wikipedia page for Eyehategod, they too mention Carnivore as one of their major influences. And next to Melvins and Neurosis I guess that Crowbar and Eyehategod have been the two most influential bands in the sludge genre.
Anyway I included Carnivore too in the list for their influence on for example the sludge genre.
wtf?
I have read an interview with Crowbar in Sweden Rock Magazine where they mention Carnivore as one of their major influences, and according to the wikipedia page for Eyehategod, they too mention Carnivore as one of their major influences. And next to Melvins and Neurosis I guess that Crowbar and Eyehategod have been the two most influential bands in the sludge genre.
lots of those bands will also mention Kiss as their influence, but that doesn't make Kiss influential for the sludge genre.
I discovered I had left out Vulcano. I definitely think they deserve to be on the list for starting the South American extreme metal scene and influencing bands like Sarcofago and Sepultura. I put them in on a random position.
I'm sorry, but this list is way too long for its own good. Why don't you just list two or three bands per metal subgenre that pioneered the genre? And order them properly... you'd still have a pretty big list then, but 150 is way too much in my opinion, for "influential" bands.
I'm sorry, but this list is way too long for its own good. Why don't you just list two or three bands per metal subgenre that pioneered the genre? And order them properly... you'd still have a pretty big list then, but 150 is way too much in my opinion, for "influential" bands.
I think there are too many bands that have been part of shaping the metal genre for a short list, but if you want a shorter list you can only look at top 40. These are what I consider the most essential bands, that was how far I came when I still really tried to weigh every position against each other, after that it became impossible, although I have tried the best I can. If you have any objections against my order you can express them, I'm only glad for all feedback I receive.
I have no idea if anyone else cares about this list, but at least I think it has been very fun doing this list, and I have learnt a lot by all the research I have put down on it, and also by some of the comments so far.
I couldn't agree more with this list than I already do and all these bands definitely deserve a place here, but I don't know why Killing Joke isn't on this list. They started/heavily influenced industrial rock and metal in their later years and laid the foundation of Godflesh, not to mention influencing some of today's most well-known metal bands like Metallica, Korn, Slipknot, Ministry, even Nirvana and Soundgarden (although they're more grunge than metal). If any revision needs to be made to this list, Killing Joke needs a spot on it.
I couldn't agree more with this list than I already do and all these bands definitely deserve a place here, but I don't know why Killing Joke isn't on this list. They started/heavily influenced industrial rock and metal in their later years and laid the foundation of Godflesh, not to mention influencing some of today's most well-known metal bands like Metallica, Korn, Slipknot, Ministry, even Nirvana and Soundgarden (although they're more grunge than metal). If any revision needs to be made to this list, Killing Joke needs a spot on it.
Thanks! I agree Killing Joke being hugely influential for metal but I have never considered them metal enough for the list.
/ Gothic is from March 1991 
