I just watched Tuomas answer fan questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6fDUK1xM3Y).

At one point, he said that he's not listening to music anymore. And honestly, I think that says a lot about Nightwish these days. The guy behind the wheel is not passionate about the music as he was (to say the least) and it tells.

He's apparently more into podcasts. Which pretty much explains themes on the last two albums. It seems he prefers talking about evolution and cosmos to writing music. A brilliant musician reduced to a pop science fan.

Written by Ellinor on 08.04.2020 at 19:01

I just watched Tuomas answer fan questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6fDUK1xM3Y).

At one point, he said that he's not listening to music anymore. And honestly, I think that says a lot about Nightwish these days. The guy behind the wheel is not passionate about the music as he was (to say the least) and it tells.

He's apparently more into podcasts. Which pretty much explains themes on the last two albums. It seems he prefers talking about evolution and cosmos to writing music. A brilliant musician reduced to a pop science fan.

That is fucking tragic and heartbreaking to hear. I used to idolize him so much as a composer and the ringleader of the band.

Listened to the record. I like it quite a bit, but I'm sure it'll grow on me even more over the coming months like the last one did.

Written by Ellinor on 08.04.2020 at 19:01

At one point, he said that he's not listening to music anymore. And honestly, I think that says a lot about Nightwish these days. The guy behind the wheel is not passionate about the music as he was (to say the least) and it tells.

He's apparently more into podcasts. Which pretty much explains themes on the last two albums. It seems he prefers talking about evolution and cosmos to writing music. A brilliant musician reduced to a pop science fan.

To be fair to Tuomas I think this is a very common thing. When your whole life is centered around writing music, sitting in studios, touring for months then I think it's difficult to find the passion to listen to music on your time off. I have a very hard time thinking that Steve Harris, Kai Hansen or Tony Iommi chooses to listen to music at home.

I'm looking forward to seeing ratings for this and the future discussion that will come with this.

Written by /Marius on 08.04.2020 at 10:24

I find this post weirdly ironic since is guitars is probably the most present instrument on disc 1.

oh.. all I remember is the intro of Endlessness. which means even if there are guitars elsewhere they are just so forgettable the user doesn't even recognise them.

Written by Ellinor on 08.04.2020 at 19:01

I just watched Tuomas answer fan questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6fDUK1xM3Y).

At one point, he said that he's not listening to music anymore. And honestly, I think that says a lot about Nightwish these days. The guy behind the wheel is not passionate about the music as he was (to say the least) and it tells.

He's apparently more into podcasts. Which pretty much explains themes on the last two albums. It seems he prefers talking about evolution and cosmos to writing music. A brilliant musician reduced to a pop science fan.

I actually prefer that composers don't listen to (much) music. Less temptation to copy something, be it a tune or a trend, and deliver more genuine compositions. I remember in the ol'good days of Rhapsody that Luca Turilli and Alex Staropolli also said they didn't listen to any band of their genre. And it never affected their compositions (at that time).

Written by SAY10 on 10.04.2020 at 01:06

I actually prefer that composers don't listen to (much) music. Less temptation to copy something, be it a tune or a trend, and deliver more genuine compositions. I remember in the ol'good days of Rhapsody that Luca Turilli and Alex Staropolli also said they didn't listen to any band of their genre. And it never affected their compositions (at that time).

For me, Tuomas was always sort of "Tarantino of music". His knowledge and passion for music were all over the place: classical, rock/metal, western spaghetti, Celtic and folk, orchestral, etc. He took all these broad influences to create something new and unique: the distinct sound of Nightwish. He used to speak extensively about his favorite bands, composers and inspirations.

So I think it's safe to say that Nightwish, as we know it, would not exist without him being an avid listener. That's not copying - art inspires art. Genuinity does not grow in isolation. Great artists reinvent, refactor, and reimagine.

What a pile of Kakko.

Only musician who doesn't feel underused is Troy. Tuomas might as well have got Johanna to sing most of the tracks and just paid Floor for live shows.

Give me a second Scrooge album any day.

Written by Ruchesko on 10.04.2020 at 05:35

What a pile of Kakko.

Can't get over this one

After listening to the album for like 5 times, waiting a couple of days, and then listening to it again: I don't think that it is that bad, generally speaking. Sure, after listening to the second CD I was like Why even bother with this if you're not gonna make something Epic with it, but the first CD is a nice listen. "Shoemaker" being the highlight for me now, "Pan" and also "Tribal" are also cute. "Noise" was a great first single, the first single from NW I like this much in a long time.
Agreeing on the fact that Floor and Emppu sound underused somehow, even Kai, but the whole album feels just laid back and not what one can expect from NW - it just sounds like "Oh here's some music we can sing along to during the live shows", i.e. "How's the Heart".

Written by Ruchesko on 10.04.2020 at 05:35

What a pile of Kakko.

Only musician who doesn't feel underused is Troy. Tuomas might as well have got Johanna to sing most of the tracks and just paid Floor for live shows.

Give me a second Scrooge album any day.

This. I was thinking just the exact same thing. These people are world class talents, but they're not really doing anything interesting here. For example, put Emppu to play more acoustic parts, give him mandolin or lute or something, not just that same two or three metal riffs over and over again in every song. And why have a virtuoso like Kai Hahto in the band if he can't do his thing but rather play some very basic stuff. At this point this just feels like mr. Holopainen would much rather make his own symphony thing, but then there's these other band members so have to include them in somewhere.

I really like the first CD, very enjoyable, melodic and catchy.
Not a fan of the band by any means, so I just take whatever they ship at face value.

Written by Ruchesko on 10.04.2020 at 05:35

What a pile of Kakko.

I am so stealing that!

Written by Ruchesko on 10.04.2020 at 05:35

Give me a second Scrooge album any day.

Tuomas could probably compose a wonderful soundtrack for the next Elder Scrolls game. He needs to stop doing metal, though.

Liked the single "Noise" even though it's an obvious GoT-theme rip off. Album has some decent songs in it (meaning the 1st disc) but I must say it's just a bit boring in the long run, sounding very same as the couple previous ones. I have nothing to say for the second disc, it's just some OST for some imaginary film.. Can't really remember any melody of it.

Tracks I liked most were 2, 8, and 9. Basically the heavier set.

It pains me to say this because Nightwish were such a big part of how I learned to enjoy metal, but this album is really really poor. Floor's vocal work is probably the best element of the whole thing, but if you're familar with her work in After Forever, you'll know she's still being underutilized here.

It's deeply clear that Tuomas either doesn't have enough new inspiration coming in or he's just over the project as a whole. I know they tried to take risks here but this is a slightly better version of the last album, which I'd rank as their most forgettable. A real shame and I'd really like to see Nightwish on top of their game again but I think it would take allowing other songwriters to participate and I think we all know that ain't happening under Tuomas' watch. Oh well. New Epica will make up for it I'm sure.

Finishing a third spin of this record and i already know that i'm not giving it anymore listens. It has it's fine moments like Pan and Noise but most of this material sounds too mellow for it's own sake. The songs lack detail, the grandness of the orchestra smartly used before in Century Child and Once is underutilized and you can count by the fingers of one hand how many heavy riffs this album has. There's little to no trace of the
"bombastic" sound which songs like Wishmaster and Dark Chest of Wonders helped establish as Nightwish's trademark sound.
All these songs sound too flat and emotionless for their own sake. The only song that makes an attempt at this sound is Endlessness which also sounds completely forgetable. This is another major problem with this album: there's few memorable riffs and vocal lines. Ironically the only line that keeps coming to mind is "surrender to the earth" from one of the most experimental tracks of the album, Harvest.
The second part of the album tries to bring to life an hard concept and i guess that listening to it while reading the lyrics might bring these songs some value. But it's only good background music if you know what i mean, and that's about it. All in all, this is probably Nightwish's worst album to date. I believe it has Tuomas wholeheartedness in it, but musically speaking there's very little appeal to me in these songs.

After Tuomas "failed" to use Floor's full potential in the previous album, now apparently he doesn't know how to use other members as well, like Emppu. Have you considered that maybe Tuomas doesn't compose having in mind "I have to put heavy guitars here, since Emppu HAS to play something" and he focuses on the idea and completion of the song? It's perfectly fine to not like the new direction of the sound the band is taking (which is rather bold if you ask me) but please no more nonsense like telling Tuomas what he should've done, as if he doesn't know better. Also, I think those who enjoyed the Scrooge album could find CD2 very appealing. In my opinion, the rating as it is now, is really unfair for an album that is so musically rich. Anyway...

Easily their weakest album. Pan and Endlessness were probably the best tracks on there, I can see others like Shoemaker and Harvest being growers, but Noise was the only track with a melodic hook that really sticks (on the merit of ripping off the GoT theme). No interesting riffs to be heard and Floor could be replaced with anyone else since her vocal talents just weren't required for the music that was written here. My rating is for disc 1 only, otherwise it'd be even lower...

This has to be the band most listened by people who don't like their music for at least the past decade.

Written by Dark Forever on 10.04.2020 at 17:34

This has to be the band most listened by people who don't like their music for at least the past decade.

This idea that "if you don't like all of a band's output you don't like the band at all" stance must be the most repeated one on this website

Written by tiny dog ghosts on 10.04.2020 at 17:37

Written by Dark Forever on 10.04.2020 at 17:34

This has to be the band most listened by people who don't like their music for at least the past decade.

This idea that "if you don't like all of a band's output you don't like the band at all" stance must be the most repeated one on this website

I said "people who don't like their music for at least the past decade". I'm not saying people don't like the band or don't love their earlier outputs, but I still see people talking about the Tarja-era sound in this comment section. I mean, clearly Nightwish are not going back to that.

Written by SAY10 on 10.04.2020 at 01:06

I actually prefer that composers don't listen to (much) music. Less temptation to copy something, be it a tune or a trend, and deliver more genuine compositions. I remember in the ol'good days of Rhapsody that Luca Turilli and Alex Staropolli also said they didn't listen to any band of their genre. And it never affected their compositions (at that time).

It's fun to consider this, since my thoughts listening to the album were that there was a lot of reylcing. All compositionnal tricks here haven't already used so mainy times in previous I could believe the tracks were mashups. It may be a good thing to stay true to your band's identity, but it's also another to make progress and not deliver the same songs over and over. Now instead of copying other bands he's copying himself

Written by Irritable Ted on 10.04.2020 at 15:01

YouTube fan boys seem to love it though. Their view holds more weight than Metalstorm, so don't expect the next album to be a return to Wishmaster.

I'd hate to see Holopainen take the 'nostalgic throwback' route. Tony Kakko's approach, dividing albums into songs he wants to sing and songs he thinks fans will appreciate, has shipwrecked Sonata Arctica creatively.

I would be happy for him to just move on from this semi-Celtic rut he's got stuck in. Unfortunately, he'd probably have to fall out with Troy before that happens, and I don't want to wish unhappiness on the guy.

1st album is good as a whole but nothing special. 2nd...well it is instrumental and not super exciting.
The power, riffs, magic that the albums with Tarja brought is gone. The last really amazing album was Dark passion play. So sad that they kicked Tarja , they should have kept her in that album and then the band should have ended on top!
Floors vocals are better than before though, got to be something🤟

Crazy how Floor is the best vocalist that they've ever had, but the albums with her are their worst.

Although the album is suppose to sound epic and orchestral, it just comes off as hollow and devoid of any real emotions. It's a boring, by-the-numbers symphonic pop-metal album.

Well, I can't ever understand the tastes of the people on this page. What the hell do you want from Nightwish to create, guys? (just a matter of curiosity, not a reproach at all) For myself this album is another grand creation from Tuomas in itself.

This is the most active thread I read in a while, so I must listen.

Written by Dark Forever on 10.04.2020 at 17:34

This has to be the band most listened by people who don't like their music for at least the past decade.

I think it's the other way around. There are people like myself who appreciate Nightwish's career so much, that every new album is considered a must listen, even if their last album wasn't that good. That's very flattering for a band! Having a persistent and dedicated fan base.
Loving most of their records, doesn't automatically makes their latest album a 10/10.

Written by RaduP on 10.04.2020 at 21:09

Crazy how Floor is the best vocalist that they've ever had, but the albums with her are their worst.

One can argue on who is the best vocalist Nighwish ever had, but there is no denying that Floor is a great vocalist and she is wasted in Nightwish. It is time to relisten to those After Forever albums.
A really boring album, but CD2 would make good background music in my supermarket...