Keep going, guys. This is fun

Written by pdepmcp on 25.02.2016 at 23:27

Indesinence - III
It simply is a ordinary record in his genre and even the fans or the staff are not into it (according to the actual votes). Why is it there? I just looks...nonsense

Rating on the website is not an indicator. As far as I know, all staff have a say on what albums get nominated (someone correct me if wrong).

And how do you know that staff didn't enjoy this and found it "average"? If album rating is the indicator, we only know the opinion of 1 staff. Maybe 7 or 8 others that didn't rate it on the website thought it was great.

Reducing the analysis to rating is somewhat flawed.

Kittens are pretty awesome. Especially kittens that listen to Blut aus Nord. The band that had the best album of 2015.

Written by pdepmcp on 26.02.2016 at 00:52

So, to return "polite" (and I think that's how we should remain), how can an average record be "award worthy"?

Ok, I'll (reluctantly) teach you how to do math... Indeed, Indesinence finished last (10th spot in the MSA preselection) and was voted by 5 staff/elite/contributor members - 7 points in total. As you can see it was enough to move further. Shit happens, you know ;]

PS. Is my English language really that bad?

Written by Vombatus on 26.02.2016 at 02:11

Written by pdepmcp on 25.02.2016 at 23:27

Indesinence - III
It simply is a ordinary record in his genre and even the fans or the staff are not into it (according to the actual votes). Why is it there? I just looks...nonsense

Rating on the website is not an indicator. As far as I know, all staff have a say on what albums get nominated (someone correct me if wrong).

And how do you know that staff didn't enjoy this and found it "average"? If album rating is the indicator, we only know the opinion of 1 staff. Maybe 7 or 8 others that didn't rate it on the website thought it was great.

Reducing the analysis to rating is somewhat flawed.

You're definitely right, even if it's mainly a UGC site, so ratings are an indicator of at least popularity and people taste.
Maybe they love the record and didn't vote it or reviewed it.
It's was just an example though: I used it because it was an highlight of the "strange" situation.
And I'm quite sorry for the band because I took their work as a (bad) exemple, while I'm not into their music and after 3 listens to the whole record I don't think it's a bad one (just ordinary).

Written by Paz on 26.02.2016 at 10:12

Written by pdepmcp on 26.02.2016 at 00:52

So, to return "polite" (and I think that's how we should remain), how can an average record be "award worthy"?

Ok, I'll (reluctantly) teach you how to do math... Indeed, Indesinence finished last (10th spot in the MSA preselection) and was voted by 5 staff/elite/contributor members - 7 points in total. As you can see it was enough to move further. Shit happens, you know ;]

PS. Is my English language really that bad?

You're quite good (and probably better than me)
And I have nothing against you, of course

I have nothing against the band or the record itself too: I don't think it's a bad record, indeed.

I used that band as an example of what I wanted to point out: It sounds strange when an open (I say open because it's people-voted) award have underground nominations that are not artistically outstanding but overcome well-known acts.
I don't really care about who wins: I just enjoy discovering new bands listening to nominated records, so I'm fine about it. It just sounds...weired.

Written by pdepmcp on 25.02.2016 at 23:27


What I meant with enrich and sublimate IS NOT "we give you what you want so you are happy with your ego", but is to add artistic inputs to listener (Enrich means to add grater value, not to say what you're supposed to say)! But IMHO it has to stay in touch with people taste.
\

The moment i vote based upon the tastes of other people is the moment my own opinion, my reviews, my staff picks lose all credibility.

How does spouting out popular bands just because they are popular "enrich" anything?

Written by pdepmcp on 26.02.2016 at 10:29

It sounds strange when an open (I say open because it's people-voted) award have underground nominations that are not artistically outstanding but overcome well-known acts.

in my opinion all those nominated are artistically more outstanding than the releases of well-known acts. And the underground acts need the exposure way more than the well-known acts who are usually just marketing tools for the bigger record companies that put a lot of money into promoting those already better known acts.
And how would you Judge artistically outstanding anyway? It is all as subjective as can be. There are no objective criteria that can be applied when judging music.

Still can't decide on biggest letdown. Should I vote for an album where I put all the blame on 1 member, or one where it was a full team effort of disappointment?

Written by BitterCOld on 26.02.2016 at 14:58

Written by pdepmcp on 25.02.2016 at 23:27


What I meant with enrich and sublimate IS NOT "we give you what you want so you are happy with your ego", but is to add artistic inputs to listener (Enrich means to add grater value, not to say what you're supposed to say)! But IMHO it has to stay in touch with people taste.
\

The moment i vote based upon the tastes of other people is the moment my own opinion, my reviews, my staff picks lose all credibility.

How does spouting out popular bands just because they are popular "enrich" anything?

You could become the Grammys
(suicide pills are in the 2nd drawer)

Pdepmcp - Only well know acts what suppose to be here are saxon, draconian and MDB ... rest is what I say I agree whit MH about those are better as well know acts
Well know acts is not about metal, metal is deeper, dig deeper listed, this is what I a doing all those years

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.02.2016 at 15:32

Written by pdepmcp on 26.02.2016 at 10:29

It sounds strange when an open (I say open because it's people-voted) award have underground nominations that are not artistically outstanding but overcome well-known acts.

in my opinion all those nominated are artistically more outstanding than the releases of well-known acts. And the underground acts need the exposure way more than the well-known acts who are usually just marketing tools for the bigger record companies that put a lot of money into promoting those already better known acts.
And how would you Judge artistically outstanding anyway? It is all as subjective as can be. There are no objective criteria that can be applied when judging music.

You're right on each point. I'm listening to the nominations and I've not found a "bad" record yet (at least in the genres I follow with more attention).
It just sounds strange that popular acts among the MS users, with high-rated releases (by the MS Users, not by major paid magazines) are completely out of the competition (and don't get me wrong: I like the awards this year and I enjoy the the records as I did in the last years. The staff work is great as usual and that's why I fell to belong here more than any other metal community).

I've gone to far in the past posts and now I guess that anything I say is considered as an aggression to someone/something, while my goal was (and is) to point out what I think is an issue, and give a point of view that could enrich the awards process in the future. May be I'll back on it later, when it'll be clear that I don't give a fuck about who wins and just aim to help the community.

Thanks for your kind answer

Written by Karlabos on 26.02.2016 at 01:25

Keep going, guys. This is fun

Written by Bad English on 27.02.2016 at 11:56

Pdepmcp - Only well know acts what suppose to be here are saxon, draconian and MDB ... rest is what I say I agree whit MH about those are better as well know acts
Well know acts is not about metal, metal is deeper, dig deeper listed, this is what I a doing all those years

I don't even care about "big" vs "small" or "well-known" vs "underground".

The point is simple: the MS community who is called to vote the awards thinks that some records are great (not necessary well-known), but they are out of the competition (and without a review where someone says that one of those is crappy because of somthing we, the people, didn't notice). It sounds weird as we are the same who'll vote them. MS Awards are not "staff picks", that can be anything that the staff likes.

The example is that (according to MS users votes) Paradise Lost, Draconian, Shape Of Dispairs and Swallow The Sun released great doom records. Only Paradise Lost and Shape Of Despairs are present.
And even if they are "well known" among doom listeners, they are quite unknown to general metal listeners and I don't think any of them is getting rich with their own music only.
My personal taste is that StS and PL should be in and the other out, but is't not "pdepmcp's awards", it's called "MS awards" so IMHO, they should be all in.

My Dying Bride (that you mentioned) is debatable, and it's not a case that I didn't mention them: they released a good rated release, but on the same level of many other less-known act and far below their previous masterpieces. In that case the staff is for sure the only possible judge.

Written by pdepmcp on 27.02.2016 at 12:29

but is't not "pdepmcp's awards"

Too bad, that has such a nice ring to it.

Written by BitterCOld on 26.02.2016 at 14:58

Written by pdepmcp on 25.02.2016 at 23:27


What I meant with enrich and sublimate IS NOT "we give you what you want so you are happy with your ego", but is to add artistic inputs to listener (Enrich means to add grater value, not to say what you're supposed to say)! But IMHO it has to stay in touch with people taste.
\

The moment i vote based upon the tastes of other people is the moment my own opinion, my reviews, my staff picks lose all credibility.

How does spouting out popular bands just because they are popular "enrich" anything?

I think you got what I meant, so I won't go on whit that. If you didn't, an answer now won't help.

And I agree with your freedom of vote, but of course nobody (and surely not me ) said that you should vote according to people taste. So you're right saying something out of scope.
But just to play your game I await your vote (and maybe review) on Draconian and StS just to know what you think about them (I guess you'll give a 6 and a 7, according to your other votes).

Written by pdepmcp on 27.02.2016 at 12:29

My personal taste is that StS and PL should be in and the other out, but is't not "pdepmcp's awards", it's called "MS awards" so IMHO, they should be all in.

Thing is, there can be only 10 nominees... If the staff would put every of the ones you liked it would already be 4 of them... That's just you.. Now Imagine trying to please everyone
Plus, there's nothing that implies those releases should be nominees except for your subjective taste. The "they are well-known argument" has been refuted and you said yourself you don't care about what is well-known or not, the "MS users like it" argument also doesn't hold, because as said before, if the staff would nominate what MS users like it would be no different than just looking at the top charts, what leaves us with just the staff subjective taste...
The way I see, they made a small vote among them and it turns out the top 10 doom albums were the ones which were nominated, and that's it.

The way I see it it's also the way it should be, staff picks, votes, nominates. No complications, pretty simple stuff.

The rest of discussion you guys keep engaging into is like "Paradise Lost should be here", "no, they shouldn't, they suck", but that's also all subjective no? There's nothing which indicates for real that one of those affirmatives is correct...

Btw Draconian wouldn't be in doom but would be in gothic if it had made the cut. And Swallow The Sun would be in doom and not extreme doom had it made the cut.

MDB was mentioned as BIG and it discussable , because those doom albums are hard to choose, well to me I only can say those 3 should be nominated.
But nominated albums are also great, have you listened to those
besides if x album is so good, vote write-in

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.02.2016 at 14:37

Btw Draconian wouldn't be in doom but would be in gothic if it had made the cut. And Swallow The Sun would be in doom and not extreme doom had it made the cut.

For Draconian it's quite curious, because they are gothic doom metal (both in band description and record description) which implies they are doom with a gothic twist (otherwise it would be doomed gotich metal or something like that).

For Sts I do agree with you, but as you surely know, the last release is actualy a triple record and the third is for sure extreme doom, while the first fits the doom category. The choce to release a triple formed by 3 records in 3 different styles is strange anough to confuse, indeed.

But you already know that....

Written by Karlabos on 27.02.2016 at 14:33

Written by pdepmcp on 27.02.2016 at 12:29

My personal taste is that StS and PL should be in and the other out, but is't not "pdepmcp's awards", it's called "MS awards" so IMHO, they should be all in.

Thing is, there can be only 10 nominees... If the staff would put every of the ones you liked it would already be 4 of them... That's just you.. Now Imagine trying to please everyone

I wrote and you quoted that 2 of them are not worthy to be there in my opinion.
It's not a metter of taste, really. Don't get confused by the fact that I actually like StS last release (at least record 1&3).
In the awards we are supposed to vote what we like, but excluding things we said before that we like. That's a hiatus between staff and users. Nothing more than just that.

The argument of awards=top albums has been discussed before with a explicit evidence that it's just not automatically true (Vader won even if Behemoth had a better average rating)

Written by Bad English on 27.02.2016 at 14:57

MDB was mentioned as BIG and it discussable , because those doom albums are hard to choose, well to me I only can say those 3 should be nominated.
But nominated albums are also great, have you listened to those
besides if x album is so good, vote write-in

Yeah, I'm really enjoying listening to nominated albums
In particualr the post section gave me more than a positive surprise

Long live the MS awards

Just cast my votes. Very glad to see a category for best artwork, pretty sure I've been asking for this for years!
Only weird thing was seeing Tribulation in death metal.

I'm predicting Iron Maiden, Nightwish, Blind Guardian, Autumn For Crippled Children, Avatarium and Leprous to win. Have a feeling Arcturus might be the first band to beat Enslaved and can't split A Forest Of Stars and Leviathan.

I've finished voting; is drama of the year something to be taken seriously or just nonsense, bands turmoil touching ridiculousness (as seen many times).

Nothing worse than the Colectiv tragedy last year.

I changed best video ... I forgot that that video exist, old vote was OK, but I like closer home, so new video

btw will lyric video counts in video category?

Written by pdepmcp on 27.02.2016 at 17:56
For Draconian it's quite curious, because they are gothic doom metal (both in band description and record description) which implies they are doom with a gothic twist (otherwise it would be doomed gotich metal or something like that).

Just letting you know that going by the genre tags in the band profiles is just as valid as going to metal archives or wikipedia. That means that anyone with the proper permissions (= almost everyone who has been here for a longer period) can do it.