Written by musclassia on 03.02.2025 at 14:50
I'm only saying this because I get the feeling some people assume we simply hand-wave these decisions. We've looked at this problem from any angle we could find to look for a better solution and always hit a dead end. The current way of doing things really is the one with the least negative side-effects. One of which, unfortunately, is that votes are spread across categories, minimizing a write-in's chance of winning.

I really appreciate all the work the staff has put into making the MS Awards possible and for allowing us to be part of this community. I’m genuinely pleased with everything you’ve done, and I totally understand that structuring something like this isn’t easy.

Maybe I’m just too old-school or retrograde to fully grasp certain things that others do, and I don’t want to come across as a burden—I just wanted to share my thoughts, and maybe they reflect what others feel too. I’m not asking for changes or saying anything needs to be fixed, just expressing a perspective. Thanks again for taking the time to explain everything, and for all the effort you put into making this a great experience for everyone.

Peace

^ You don't come across as a burden, we are just having a discussion, and your initial comment was an opportunity for us to actually reveal more information about how we came to a certain decision. We are trying to be as transparent as possible, so that nobody feels left out or considered as a second-class user.

Ah yes. More fashionable. I can finally identify with this effort!
Now I'm going to put on my Gojira codpiece and Igorr socks and get down to voting!

Oh my, missed a war of the words. far more eloquent issues with the nomination process/nominees than I'm accustomed to.

20 years on, literal thousands upon thousands of hours spent and we still can't get it right. Woe is us.

Hey corrupt, should we run into each other again, will get the first couple rounds of Bitburger. That shouldn't offend anyone.



I'm just happy it seems a couple of the albums I pushed that barely made it in resonate with at least another user or two.

I am super disappointed only to see Schammach for best album art cover
i think they deserved a lot more than that

Written by pedders on 04.02.2025 at 17:28

I am super disappointed only to see Schammach for best album art cover
i think they deserved a lot more than that

What's wrong with Best Post Metal Album?

Would Alunah go in doom or stoner?

Written by M C Vice on 05.02.2025 at 07:31

Would Alunah go in doom or stoner?

We were considering them for stoner, so I'd say there.

The power metal category this year is ridiculously good. Even the weak points hardly feel like it: Orden Ogan and Triumpher I didn't like quite as much as past releases, but they both still had solid albums, and Thornbridge picked up whatever slack Orden Ogan let fall.

Beyond that, Galneryus is back to form, Freedom Call are super catchy and pleasant and uplifting as always, and Phantoma is in competition for Unleash The Archers's best. But I'm most seriously impressed by the four bands that were new to me, which I didn't get to until after the voting opened: Nemedian Chronicles is a clear winner in a tough category and a highlight of the year overall, and Savage Oath is particularly excellent as well. Achelous and Vision Divine are great discoveries. Honestly, I think this is the best power metal category in years - I have to go back to 2017 before I find such a consistently great set of albums in one place. '21 was a standout, too, and I guess I'll need to wait and see whether this lineup stands the test of time as other years have, but I'm really happy with this selection. We didn't even really leave out anything I was pulling for; I liked the new Sonata Arctica and Mägo De Oz enough that I would have been happy to see them make the cut, but I can't complain about what we've got.

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 05.02.2025 at 17:34

Nemedian Chronicles is a clear winner in a tough category and a highlight of the year overall, and Savage Oath is particularly excellent as well.

Oh yes

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 05.02.2025 at 17:34

The power metal category this year is ridiculously good. Even the weak points hardly feel like it: Orden Ogan and Triumpher I didn't like quite as much as past releases, but they both still had solid albums, and Thornbridge picked up whatever slack Orden Ogan let fall.

Beyond that, Galneryus is back to form, Freedom Call are super catchy and pleasant and uplifting as always, and Phantoma is in competition for Unleash The Archers's best. But I'm most seriously impressed by the four bands that were new to me, which I didn't get to until after the voting opened: Nemedian Chronicles is a clear winner in a tough category and a highlight of the year overall, and Savage Oath is particularly excellent as well. Achelous and Vision Divine are great discoveries. Honestly, I think this is the best power metal category in years - I have to go back to 2017 before I find such a consistently great set of albums in one place. '21 was a standout, too, and I guess I'll need to wait and see whether this lineup stands the test of time as other years have, but I'm really happy with this selection. We didn't even really leave out anything I was pulling for; I liked the new Sonata Arctica and Mägo De Oz enough that I would have been happy to see them make the cut, but I can't complain about what we've got.

That's interesting because I found power metal to be less desirable for me this year, not that it was an underwhelming category as such, more the fact nothing really stood out for me, other than perhaps Triumpher. The sheer amount of quality releases in Black metal on the other hand blew me away, where as 2023 it was meloblack. It must show how much more I appreciate black metal than death metal though, because I once again wasn't nearly as impressed with the death metal in 2024. I'm sure there's many others that would think the same but rather the way round, rather appreciating what death has on offer more than black.

Dungeon Crawl - Maze Controller! How did I miss that album! Symphonic thrash and other cool elements thrown in there. Going right on my top of 2024 list. Yeah baby!

Is there some post or an official image that we can share in social media (instagram) so more people come and check them out? I truly believe this effort is outstanding and it helps a lot of people know a looot about metal.

Written by Nick Carter on 07.02.2025 at 02:45

Is there some post or an official image that we can share on social media (instagram) so more people come and check them out? I truly believe this effort is outstanding and it helps a lot of people know a looot about metal.

Well, we used to see buttons at the bottom of every publication to share on social media. I guess lately it has been removed.

You can copy the link of MSA and share it. That's what I did.

Written by Nick Carter on 07.02.2025 at 02:45

Is there some post or an official image that we can share in social media (instagram) so more people come and check them out? I truly believe this effort is outstanding and it helps a lot of people know a looot about metal.

There's a Banners and Buttons menu item on every awards page. That not what you're looking for?

Hey Metalstorm friends! I am a bit late this year because I was travelling, but here are the usual Spotify playlists for all MS Awards categories. Happy listening, and hope you'll vote for the best, not the most popular!

Alternative Metal
Ambient / Drone / Noise
Avantgarde / Experimental Metal
Black Metal
Death Metal
Djent / Math Metal
Doom Metal
Extreme Doom Metal
Extreme Progressive Metal
Folk / Pagan / Viking Metal
Gothic Metal
Grindcore
Hard Rock
Hardcore / Metalcore / Deathcore
Heavy / Traditional Metal
Industrial / Cyber / Electronic Metal
Melodeath / Extreme Power / Gothenburg Metal
Melodic Black Metal
Metalgaze
Post-Metal
Power Metal
Progressive Metal
Sludge Metal
Stoner Metal
Symphonic Metal
Thrash / Speed Metal
Clandestine Cut Of The Year
The Best Debut Album

^ Look at this legend right here.

@ Liafev

Is there any unwritten rule that would prevent me from voting for an album in two categories? This is a write-in I'm talking about, specifically Ihsahn for Extreme Prog and Symphonic.
I think this could be coded to prevent such cases, but I genuinely don't know if it's fine or not. If it's the latter, I can switch my Ex Prog vote.

Written by NastyHero on 08.02.2025 at 14:31
I think this could be coded to prevent such cases

There's a post in this thread that explains everything about this to you in detail.

Written by corrupt on 08.02.2025 at 14:35

Written by NastyHero on 08.02.2025 at 14:31
I think this could be coded to prevent such cases

There's a post in this thread that explains everything about this to you in detail.

Found it with "here are measures in place to prevent double nominations in multiple categories".
What are these measures though? Because right now I have Ihsahn's studio album voted in both categories (which I'll change later), none of them nominated by me.

Written by NastyHero on 08.02.2025 at 14:44

Written by corrupt on 08.02.2025 at 14:35

Written by NastyHero on 08.02.2025 at 14:31
I think this could be coded to prevent such cases

There's a post in this thread that explains everything about this to you in detail.

Found it with "here are measures in place to prevent double nominations in multiple categories".
What are these measures though? Because right now I have Ihsahn's studio album voted in both categories (which I'll change later), none of them nominated by me.

The discussions in this thread touch on how albums nominated by staff are ineligible in other categories, but that albums not nominated by staff are unrestricted by genre, due to the issues that:

- Either we predetermine what category every album belongs to, even for non-nominated albums, which would be very difficult to do while covering all potentially debatable albums, and would also cause even more scope for 'you've put this in the wrong category' complaints
- or we allow an album to be written in anywhere, but no other category after the first vote, which restricts category decisions to the first person who writes it in
- or we open audience debates for every album that gets written into more than one category, relying on users to actively participate in the decision-making on genre location rather than just placing a vote and not discussing it further, and then have the issue that once a category is decided, we have to deal with the challenge of moving votes over to that category (users who write in album X to category A might vote for album Y in category B) - particularly when accounting for users who might visit the site once during awards season and then leave the site for the month, meaning they wouldn't be able to react to category moves mid-month
- or we give users freedom to write in albums in any category and leave it up to them to do what they see fit with a lack of restrictions


There's no real optimal solution, and seeing Borknagar - Fall written into a half dozen categories rather than having users consolidate votes in one category does show the issues with the final option, but we couldn't see how to implement any of the alternatives without getting more complaints, so for now, write-ins for non-nominated albums can go anywhere.

for individual users, im not 100% sure if you can vote the same album in 2 categories if it's not a nominee (you can probably see for yourself if it works); if that is currently possible to do, what I would hope is that users would be able to recognize the potential for abuse of this (imagine a scenario where the same album is written into every category by many people) and would operate in good faith by only voting an album in the category they feel it belongs in

The only alternative idea I can currently envisage going forward is using audience writeins from the first 24 or 48 hours to determine an albums location and restricting it to the category with more votes, which leaves more time for users to react to category changes but places a lot of importance on first day voting, which we don't really want to incentivize since ideally users would use the month to explore any nominees they've not listened to. Still, these will be the kinds of ideas we discuss in the next 12 months before the next awards

Written by musclassia on 08.02.2025 at 15:17

(...)

Thanks so much for the detailed answer, seems I misunderstood corrupt's post.
I was thinking about it and came to the same conclusions - the limitations would be reliant on the person who nominated it first, and he may be, let's say, "less correct" than it should (obvious trolling could be removed, but lots of albums would be like "ehh, it kinda fits").

Each potential album could be discussed and then have its category changed but I think that would simply create a mess. Users votes for that write-in in that category would have to be removed and it's very likely they would not redo the voting again.

I think a step in the right direction would be to prevent situations like mine - one user can vote for that album in one category and that's it. I think it would not be that hard to implement (well, depends on the codebase). So I would be able to vote Ihsahn in Symphonic, someone else could vote for him in Ex-Prog, but none of us would be able to vote in both.

That's a minor issue anyway, I don't think anyone is really abusing that system. Like, while I think that Staff nominations should of course not be spread out amongst many categories (as it is now), if a user would vote for one album in two or even three categories, if they fit (which I believe for Ihsahn they do - still, I'll change my vote and keep him to one category), it's fine. As long as they don't obviously troll/spam.
As in - Swallow the Sun was (as a write-in in both) in top 10 of both Doom and Gothic in 2019, and the world still lives on (:
But that's just my two cents.

@Liafev

You do god's work every fucking year.

Written by AndyMetalFreak on 05.02.2025 at 18:24

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 05.02.2025 at 17:34

Power

That's interesting because I found power metal to be less desirable for me this year, not that it was an underwhelming category as such, more the fact nothing really stood out for me, other than perhaps Triumpher. The sheer amount of quality releases in Black metal on the other hand blew me away, where as 2023 it was meloblack. It must show how much more I appreciate black metal than death metal though, because I once again wasn't nearly as impressed with the death metal in 2024. I'm sure there's many others that would think the same but rather the way round, rather appreciating what death has on offer more than black.

I think I agree. Death definitely has some great stuff this year - Ulcerate never disappoint, and I particularly liked Eye Eater, Veilburner, Sarcophagum, and Vitriol - but black is easily another one of the best categories overall. Right away the difficulty of choosing between Paysage d'Hiver, Kanonenfieber, and Panzerfaust is daunting; in another year, any of them would win easily, and they're all candidates for my top ten. But there's not a single album I didn't think was great, with the exception of Verwoed (still good).

I, on the other hand, reckon that death metal knocked it out of the park last year with many great releases that unfortunately didn't make our final cut, because we can only nominate ten albums. For example, Maze Envy, Defilers Of The Light, Duck Face Killings, Lifeless Birth, Sanshi, The Underworld Awaits Us All, More Insane, Unicursal, The Skorian // The Greyleer, EPIC, Emerald Fires Atop The Farewell Mountains, Infinite Mortality, and my personal favourite, Caverns, could have easily been nominated and for a good reason.

For me, it has been one of the poorest years in black metal. In general, I think there is way too much black metal out there, but not much good black metal. "Uninspired" is the word that comes to my mind when I listen to most of it.

Written by Nick Carter on 07.02.2025 at 02:45

Is there some post or an official image that we can share in social media (instagram) so more people come and check them out? I truly believe this effort is outstanding and it helps a lot of people know a looot about metal.

Don't think Backstreet Boys fans are very big on heavy metal music though.

Written by nikarg on 08.02.2025 at 18:20

I, on the other hand, reckon that death metal knocked it out of the park last year with many great releases that unfortunately didn't make our final cut, because we can only nominate ten albums. For example, Maze Envy, Defilers Of The Light, Duck Face Killings, Lifeless Birth, Sanshi, The Underworld Awaits Us All, More Insane, Unicursal, The Skorian // The Greyleer, EPIC, Emerald Fires Atop The Farewell Mountains, Infinite Mortality, and my personal favourite, Caverns, could have easily been nominated and for a good reason.

For me, it has been one of the poorest years in black metal. In general, I think there is way too much black metal out there, but not much good black metal. "Uninspired" is the word that comes to my mind when I listen to most of it.

Agreed, some serious albums missed out in death metal - Infinite Mortality in particular, but also the Defacement album and a couple of others. Think black metal was pretty solid, but meloblack more so

Written by musclassia on 08.02.2025 at 20:10

also the Defacement album

Oh yes, that too. They are actually playing here with Kvadrat in a few days and I will probably go see them.

Written by Archie 666 on 08.02.2025 at 19:11

Written by Nick Carter on 07.02.2025 at 02:45

Is there some post or an official image that we can share in social media (instagram) so more people come and check them out? I truly believe this effort is outstanding and it helps a lot of people know a looot about metal.

Don't think Backstreet Boys fans are very big on heavy metal music though.

So is with "666". Just saying.