I decided to make a thread on Abortion after watching a show on it.How it is so open to people these days and more people are beginning to do it.It doesn't really occur to people sometimes that they are killing a life,some people are just so desperate to be free they dont even think about it.I know some people who are 15 and had it done already.In that case,it is necessary,but in the end it is their fault in the first place.There are many people who dont agree with it and think it is wrong,and there are also those who dont have a problem with it and think it's for the good of it.There are times when it should be done,and it is better not to bring a child into the world with no parents,and there are times when an adult couple does it because they just dont want another child.I know the Catholic church is very against it and many protest against it,I just wanted to hear your opinion on whether it is right or wrong or just sometimes necessary.Is it wrong to kill someone who never experiened life or to bring them into the world with a family that could not support them or are not mature enough to.

In my opinion it shouldn't be leguslated, but I think the people should make the concious decision against it. I personally HATE abortion, but as I said...shouldn't be controlled by the government. I'm a 17 year old walking hormone...yet I can still control myself, and abstain. It's not that hard, and if it is...wear a fucking condom...then if it breaks...no one to blame but yourself, and you shouldn't take it out on the baby... sorry. </rant>

well im a walking advertisment for birth control and/or abortion my mother wasnt young but a kid should have its parentS what i mean is i reckon my quality of life although im relitivly happy could have been so much better with things like better finacnces, all the way throu to having someone to kick a footy with, i got to hand it to my mother she done an execellent job at raising me but i shouldnt be here i shouldnt have been put on this earth to me its not right in any case really, luckily i was never over motherd or any shit like that but yeah abortion shouldnt have to happen in other words just use contreception and if this fails then abortion should approached as logically as possible for the health and well being for the young or old chick thats nocked up abortion is a damn handy thing for everyone man and espessialy woman but it will always fascinate me how life is taken like this with all the different ways they cut the unborn fetis up and shit O and another that stress's me out is if i get a chick nocked up by accident perhaps if a conraceptive item doesnt work correctly its her choice whether to get an op done so i could potentially loose a child i want to raise because she doesnt want it, or if she want the baby then i loose my life because ill be damned if i let a child drow up like i did and im also sorta with Ibanez07

My debate with pro-life people is how do we know when it is that the baby becomes a sentient being? I've read in some cultures, they believe that the soul inhabits the body around the fifth month, so until then abortion is okay, since the body is just a lifeless lump of flesh. Until I'm shown that a baby is an intelligent, thinking(remember, babies do think, just not at the comprehensive level of toddler/child/adolescent/adult/elderly) being from the exact moment of conception, I'll continue to support it.

Since wrath edited it, go here for a picture of abortion. And there's your warning.


Edited by wrathchild, re-edited by me.

I am pro-abortion. It's so much better solution than forcing child to live in a non-loving family, sending it to orphanage, or having it murdered after birth.
Our planet is filled with so much violence and corruption, that it's simply inhumane to make baby live without a shelter in form of a loving family.

I don't really get the anti-abortion arguments. That fetus dies? So what? Chances are that if it'll develop and live a normal life, many animals (and let's point out, organisms developed much more than a simple fetus) will die to feed it, trees will be cut to provide it with education and its functioning in the society will cause some pollution, which would further kill the environment. There's just no way to avoid death, it's about time to realise that.

I think abortion should be just a personal desition of any woman, I totally support it... as the discussion about ethics and values will be endless and subjective, but the big problem that a child can mean is objective and for all life, let's each one decide in consequence with own morals.

Absolutely nothing against abortion. I believe it is anyone's decision to do what he/she considers to do. Ethics & values = nothing.

Well as I've said in an another topic,on old MS the best way to avoid abortion which is a murder(we like it or not) is being more careful and responsible,so unwanted pregnacies wont occur.

I really don't agree with abortion in general terms. I only agree, when the birth dangers the life of the mother, or if the was concived by a rape, but these are very extreme cases. I simply can't see why a healthy mother would kill her child.

Why would a healty mother kill her child? For fun is good enough a reason. And I really don't see it as murder. I mean, if aborting a foetus is called murder, i think eating beavers (random example, signature was there) is something just as worse.

Written by NECURATU on 12.06.2006 at 00:22

Why would a healty mother kill her child? For fun is good enough a reason. And I really don't see it as murder. I mean, if aborting a foetus is called murder, i think eating beavers (random example, signature was there) is something just as worse.

In your opinion, a fetus is not a human? Well then how come in 2nd month of pregnacy it is shaped?Damn open some books,see some abortion pictures and then come again and say that killing a fetus is not a murder.

Yes man...a foetus is a foetus, a human is a human. And abortion can be a fancy way of saying murder, which can be a fancy way of saying you made your life better, I still have nothing against it. I don't really see the point of the discussion anyway, and of brainblasting declarations like "abortion is murder!!!" (didn't see any on this topic, but in other places), I mean, it's not your semen involved so take a chill pill.

Written by NECURATU on 12.06.2006 at 00:22

Why would a healty mother kill her child? For fun is good enough a reason. And I really don't see it as murder. I mean, if aborting a foetus is called murder, i think eating beavers (random example, signature was there) is something just as worse.

Wow. And I thought that you are serious for a moment. I dunno what to say to you now, cuz whatever I do, you wont get it. Abortion is murder, if you like it or not, cuz a fetus is alive, when they cut it out.

I suppose he could be taking a similar stance to mine. "Is it alive when there's no cognitive function; and if there's no cognitive function, do they actually count as a human being?" In that stance, it wouldn't be murder.

i think abortion should only be allowed if the woman is raped... it wasnt her choice to become pregnant and it might destroy her life... especailly if shes only a teen... but if a grown woman decides she wants an abortion because she doesnt want to raise it... i think then it should not be allowed.

Written by ^Necrolust^ on 12.06.2006 at 04:10

Written by NECURATU on 12.06.2006 at 00:22

Why would a healty mother kill her child? For fun is good enough a reason. And I really don't see it as murder. I mean, if aborting a foetus is called murder, i think eating beavers (random example, signature was there) is something just as worse.

In your opinion, a fetus is not a human? Well then how come in 2nd month of pregnacy it is shaped?Damn open some books,see some abortion pictures and then come again and say that killing a fetus is not a murder.

Can you explain why beavers should have lesser rights than humans?

I have no rational and objective arguments against abortion. Of course, I would feel bad if my girlfriend had an abortion if we had an accident like that. But as Southern Wind pointed out, the discussion of values and ethics is endless, and also pointless. They are just that, subjective opinions.
Some of you say killing a fetus is murder. Well, it might be for you, but it depends on how one defines murder. Personally, I don't even think murder in itself is bad, though in practice it almost always is unacceptable (according to my ethics). I don't see life as a sacred thing, and as long as the fetus is not self-concious and aware of its existanse, I fail to see how it's any different than jerking off and flushing your semen down the toilet. And even if the fetus is aware of itself, but does not understand that its life is ending nor feel any pain/fear, abortion is merely ending a life before the fetus even knows what it's missing out on. If you had never heard of stakes, you wouldn't miss eating stakes.

Life...sacred?! Indeed, it's all about how you perceive it and what you choose to invest in it. I repeat it again...it isn't my semen, it isn't my problem. If a foetus has something against getting aborted he can start swinging his human shape in a tribal fashion and scream for his life. But that aside, I respect your opinions, though, when it comes to actually aborting, the final decision should fall on the to be mother alone. It's her belly anyway.

This post defies the point of what I am about to say...but I'm making a concious descision to stay out of this thread. I would advise others to do the same!

Written by [user id=1868] on 12.06.2006 at 15:20

Written by ^Necrolust^ on 12.06.2006 at 04:10

Written by NECURATU on 12.06.2006 at 00:22

Why would a healty mother kill her child? For fun is good enough a reason. And I really don't see it as murder. I mean, if aborting a foetus is called murder, i think eating beavers (random example, signature was there) is something just as worse.

In your opinion, a fetus is not a human? Well then how come in 2nd month of pregnacy it is shaped?Damn open some books,see some abortion pictures and then come again and say that killing a fetus is not a murder.

Can you explain why beavers should have lesser rights than humans?

I didn't say that beavers dont have rights.I would never kill a beaver.And anyway who eats beavers? And even if you gave another example,like the chicken,we kill the chicken only in order to eat it.I would never accuse a lion if it devoured a human.But I'm against killing animals for any reason except eating.Do you think I need to explain more?

I think the main argument against abortion is the moral argument. It is said to be immoral to take the life of the foetus.

There is always a lot of space for subjectivity when it comes down to morality, but I believe that most people would agree that the basis of morality is empathy. For quite a long period during a pregnancy, a foetus does not have a brain. Even then, for quite a time, it does not have neural activity in it's frontal lobes. Those things that we believe are sacred about human life: Thoughts, emotions, etc. At these stages a foetus doesn't have them. It is really hard to empathize with something that doesn't have a brain. Hence, i think that at least early on in a pregnancy, abortion shouln't be seriously considered as a moral issue on these grounds.

Of course, if you don't like my premise and think morality exists beyond empathy, then my argument is meaningless. For these people, however, I ask you to explain why it is immoral to kill in general. I can think of no explanation that does not rely on empathy.

Written by decapitator on 12.06.2006 at 12:21

i think abortion should only be allowed if the woman is raped... it wasnt her choice to become pregnant and it might destroy her life... especailly if shes only a teen... but if a grown woman decides she wants an abortion because she doesnt want to raise it... i think then it should not be allowed.

While this is a popular opinion it is legally impossible. What would this law say? That you have to have your rapist convicted before you can have an abortion? Most rape cases go unsolved - but even if your rapist is arrested it takes many months to go through a trial and conviction process. The fetus would be a toddler by the time the father was finally sentenced.

So, the opposite is that any woman could get an abortion if she says she was raped. This wouldn't fly either. Otherwise there would be no point in the law.

**Abortion must stay completely legal for all women. No one is in a position to decide WHO gets one and WHY.

It's never an easy choice to make.. no one "just gets" an abortion because they don't particularly feel like having a kid right then. It's always a tough, life-altering, heart-breaking decision between the lesser of 2 evils.

But if the progress of the foetus is to far a human would be killed. All in all I think if the life of the women is in danger an abortion should be always allowed. If her life is not in danger it only should be allowed in the early stages of the foetus.

I LIKE ABORTIONS. I'VE ALREADY HAD TWO. AND IF YOU ASK ME, I'D LIKE TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE

@lil_charlie You know i love you,and i know you're a spammer at heart..and yes...we have together spammed our way to a lot of banns cause it's fun....but seriously...you'll get an IP ban in 10 seconds..heeheheee...don't come crying to meeeee luuuvvv yaaaaaa

Well I don't believe the government should decide who takes an abortion or not. Neither do I think some moralistic organization/religion should decide it either. As an example around 20-30 percent of the Norwegian population call themselves christians. Christianity talks about how life is sacred, however it would be unfair and undemocratic for the minority to decide to ban abortions, despite about 80% of Norwegians being members of the state church (everyone is registered as being part of it at birth unless an expression of not wanting to be a member is raised by the parents). If we then say that there was a vote. 51% voted to ban it. What about the 49% present who voted for abortion to be legal? Abortion is not something that affects anyone else than the person who aborts, as well as the immediate familiy (the same applies for homosexuals).

To conclude, those who are against abortion do not have to do an abortion, whereas those who are pro-abortion might do it if they have need for it. And everyone should thus be happy, as abortion does not intrude on other people than those few involved in it. However councelling about the issues surrounding abortion should be obligatory, at least for those under the age of 18, together with their parents. It is a hard decision, yet one that has to be taken within a certain amount of time, according to the law.

I'll say just as I said in the old thread: If a woman is desperate enough, who knows what she would do to herself to get rid of her pregnancy?

I am actually doing a debate in my class on this topic, i think that abortion should be allowed, and is a privlage, because if you think of it, it might be taking a life, but if the child would be born it could be a waist to two lifes, because lets say a 14 year old get pregnant if she would not get an abortion her life along with the childs would be ruined, but if in another case a married 35 year old wants an abortion just because she dosent want more then one kid, that is a crime, i agree with abortion, but to a certain extent, i think it should have an age restriction on it, like people over a certain age, becuase after a certain age you should be able to provide for yourself and your child, but if your too young to provide for anyone, then an abortion should be used. So i agree with an abortion but i think the diffrent situations people are in to get abortions should be looked at.

I'm against abortion. However, I sincerely don't believe that it ought to be on the top of society's to do list. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the ten year olds being gunned down on street corners on the other side of the world than a person who isn't even physically formed and developed enough, nor cognizant enough to even comprehend neither language nor the outside world in general.

Also, it's not like abortion is a new fad or anything. It's a practice that has been around for quite a long time - hundreds and hundreds of years. Sure, it's not a fact that justifies the practice or anything, but rather it's just adding more context to the argument.

Written by Susan on 15.06.2006 at 05:44

Written by decapitator on 12.06.2006 at 12:21

i think abortion should only be allowed if the woman is raped... it wasnt her choice to become pregnant and it might destroy her life... especailly if shes only a teen... but if a grown woman decides she wants an abortion because she doesnt want to raise it... i think then it should not be allowed.

While this is a popular opinion it is legally impossible. What would this law say? That you have to have your rapist convicted before you can have an abortion? Most rape cases go unsolved - but even if your rapist is arrested it takes many months to go through a trial and conviction process. The fetus would be a toddler by the time the father was finally sentenced.

So, the opposite is that any woman could get an abortion if she says she was raped. This wouldn't fly either. Otherwise there would be no point in the law.

**Abortion must stay completely legal for all women. No one is in a position to decide WHO gets one and WHY.

It's never an easy choice to make.. no one "just gets" an abortion because they don't particularly feel like having a kid right then. It's always a tough, life-altering, heart-breaking decision between the lesser of 2 evils.

Exactly. I totally agree with your post. I think this really sums up the argument on its most logical and practical level, as well as the moral side of things.