Written by [user id=36776] on 11.01.2009 at 01:49

Communism + capitalism = democracy

Written by [user id=160] on 20.01.2009 at 02:21

I want to get Karl Marx's book, "The Communist Manifesto"

anyone here read it?

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

Written by Freezer on 22.01.2009 at 00:38

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

And I'm afraid that it is exactly the problem. We have to consider our lifespan to embark such an important "mission", is it useful to revolution every aspect of life (and very likely through a war, because a system rarely is happy to crumble) without knowing how to manage the consequences of this act and without knowing if the next leading class will be trustworthy?

I think that we have to work on what we can achieve with the least amount of hatred and destruction. I support some of the concepts of Marx and Engels' theory, but I have to admit that the idea of a full-fledged collective society obtained through violence does not appeal me very much. Unfortunately it is a necessary step and, until now, we have seen how bad it has worked in lots of situations...

I simply hope we will be able to reach a balanced status without passing through violence, naturally, it is more than hard.

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

Written by [user id=17278] on 22.01.2009 at 08:54

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

I have read the first post - I spoke my mind; the ideas there seem unrealistic to me, that's all. If my opinion seems nonsensical to you, so be it.

Dream on...

Written by Fhuesc on 23.01.2009 at 04:07

Written by [user id=17278] on 22.01.2009 at 08:54

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

I have read the first post - I spoke my mind; the ideas there seem unrealistic to me, that's all. If my opinion seems nonsensical to you, so be it.

Dream on...

Yes, you speak with your guts, not your brain, have you ever read at least the title of a communist book?.

Written by akatana on 23.01.2009 at 18:22

Written by [user id=17278] on 23.01.2009 at 17:18

Written by Fhuesc on 23.01.2009 at 04:07

Written by [user id=17278] on 22.01.2009 at 08:54

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

I have read the first post - I spoke my mind; the ideas there seem unrealistic to me, that's all. If my opinion seems nonsensical to you, so be it.

Dream on...

Yes, you speak with your guts, not your brain, have you ever read at least the title of a communist book?.

You know what: you don't have to insult me just because you diagree to my opinions; but I cannot give "communism" a positive connotation, I don't believe in the theories you believe in. I lived in a totalitarian communist regime, so I (actually) feel repulsion towards communism. Before people start raving about communist theories, they should evaluate what happened so far, in the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe (44 years of communist regime), China, North Koreea to name a few countries.

I guess we weren't talking about the same thing - you were talking about concepts and ideas on communism, I was talking about communist regimes.

we grew up in the same country and I understand how you feel, but you should feel resentment towards stalinism. If you cannot understand that communism is not by definition an authoritarian regime then no amount of reason can help. The way communism was implemented is what you and I are against.

Written by akatana on 23.01.2009 at 18:22

Written by [user id=17278] on 23.01.2009 at 17:18

Written by Fhuesc on 23.01.2009 at 04:07

Written by [user id=17278] on 22.01.2009 at 08:54

Written by Fhuesc on 22.01.2009 at 00:06

I know this is a free forum, but please, stop posting nonsense, im not against criticism, it helps to improve the theory. But most of the time, people only babbles about how "evil" is communism, without an idea of what's about. I insist READ FIRST the first post before posting.

Since Mr. JohnDoe didn't bother to read beyond... well, i think he didn't read at all, im going to repeat this, communism is NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH US, cuz we are "tainted" by capitalism, our ways are the ways of the current ruling system, the ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNISM, is with, what Engels and El Che named the "New Mankind", this can be defined, as a mankind born in a socialist system, that has none to few traces of the corruption that generates our current system.

Revolution -> PreSocialist State -> Socialist State -> Communism -> Anarchy-> = VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
---------------------------------------------^
The beginning of this, is as far as we can live (And we will be really old)

I have read the first post - I spoke my mind; the ideas there seem unrealistic to me, that's all. If my opinion seems nonsensical to you, so be it.

Dream on...

Yes, you speak with your guts, not your brain, have you ever read at least the title of a communist book?.

You know what: you don't have to insult me just because you diagree to my opinions; but I cannot give "communism" a positive connotation, I don't believe in the theories you believe in. I lived in a totalitarian communist regime, so I (actually) feel repulsion towards communism. Before people start raving about communist theories, they should evaluate what happened so far, in the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe (44 years of communist regime), China, North Koreea to name a few countries.

I guess we weren't talking about the same thing - you were talking about concepts and ideas on communism, I was talking about communist regimes.

we grew up in the same country and I understand how you feel, but you should feel resentment towards stalinism. If you cannot understand that communism is not by definition an authoritarian regime then no amount of reason can help. The way communism was implemented is what you and I are against.

Written by [user id=17278] on 23.01.2009 at 17:18

they should evaluate what happened so far, in the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe (44 years of communist regime), China, North Koreea to name a few countries.

I guess we weren't talking about the same thing - you were talking about concepts and ideas on communism, I was talking about communist regimes.

Written by Ernis on 23.01.2009 at 20:03

Written by [user id=17278] on 23.01.2009 at 17:18

they should evaluate what happened so far, in the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe (44 years of communist regime), China, North Koreea to name a few countries.

I guess we weren't talking about the same thing - you were talking about concepts and ideas on communism, I was talking about communist regimes.

Taka is right about what he wrote...
The examples you brought were not communist...they said they were "socialist" and speaking of eastern Europe the most correct term was "national democracy"....yes, the politicians said "We will have communism ONE DAY!"....I'm sure they didn't mean any of it and spoke it just to fool people...
Soviet Union was far from communism and never ever made it there....communists are in opposition in modern Russia, the ultra capitalist rightist side is dominant and the amount of youngsters interested in nazism is so large it makes you sick...
China....Mao's regime...ahem...yes, of course we can't speak of much communism nor even proper socialism here...pure personal cult no more no less..plus some major cultural and economical faux-pas because of which everyone is really sorry.....modern China is capitalist....even if there are some characteristics of socialism (a few) the country is capitalist...the fact that here's only one party and it's name happens to be Communist Party has actually little connection to the actual situation...
DEMOCRATIC Peoples Republic of Korea is such an ultra nationalist concentration camp which makes Ceausescu seem like Santa....

I know bout Romania....I know about Ceausescu and his lovely Elena and I know how he loved wasting money and letting people be in poverty...I know about the "let's make more children" boom and the result of AIDS-ridden kids dying in the dark orphanages....that was no communism nor socialism....

But anyway....read Taka's posts....he knows how to explain things more clearly than I do....

Written by Fhuesc on 24.01.2009 at 08:22

@JohnDoe: what i wrote wasn't an insult, it was only a question. Taka and Hobbit, posted some truths that explain the why of my question, so im not going to repeat them.

@Marcel: I'm not blinded, but yes my hatred towards capitalism is huge, but how can not be?, it has made the Earth a living hell for most of their inhabitants (human or not). Taka, already stated this but i think it's important, communism doesn't pretend that everyone it's equal, that would be impossible. One of the basic statements of communism, is De cada cual según su capacidad; a cada cual según sus necesidades, this is kinda hard for me to translate, From everyone according to his/her capacity, for each one according his/her necessity, in simple words, everyone has to give what he/she can give, since we all are have different skills and not everyone need the same things. Finally, yes i never claimed that at this point communism was something more than a theory, but everything has to start in the theory, or how do you think that technology, buildings, even a cake, started?

Written by [user id=17278] on 25.01.2009 at 09:08

Written by Fhuesc on 24.01.2009 at 08:22

@JohnDoe: what i wrote wasn't an insult, it was only a question. Taka and Hobbit, posted some truths that explain the why of my question, so im not going to repeat them.

@Marcel: I'm not blinded, but yes my hatred towards capitalism is huge, but how can not be?, it has made the Earth a living hell for most of their inhabitants (human or not). Taka, already stated this but i think it's important, communism doesn't pretend that everyone it's equal, that would be impossible. One of the basic statements of communism, is De cada cual según su capacidad; a cada cual según sus necesidades, this is kinda hard for me to translate, From everyone according to his/her capacity, for each one according his/her necessity, in simple words, everyone has to give what he/she can give, since we all are have different skills and not everyone need the same things. Finally, yes i never claimed that at this point communism was something more than a theory, but everything has to start in the theory, or how do you think that technology, buildings, even a cake, started?

oh well - isn't telling someone NOT speaking with his brain an euphemism for= that someone is not thinking=that someone must have said something stupid? Well, that was the insult. The answer to your question is YES, I have read from Engels and Marx at least, I just don't agree to what they say there, is that so hard to understand? Is nothing more than an utopia IMO; I know this thread is in the serious discussion forum, but a less serious remark, a last one from me - for those who have read part four of Swift's Gulliver's Travel - the part with the intelligent, talking horses and their perfect society... well, that utopia/fairy tale ain't far from the ideas of (sorry I mention again) communists idealism.

I just don't believe the ideas of communism can be implemented, that's all. Not soon, in fact not ever. There's always gonna be a "villain" to use these ideas for his own purposes, it's happened before, at least let's hope it won't happen again, not too soon, not ever.

Written by Uller on 26.01.2009 at 10:04

Written by [user id=17278] on 25.01.2009 at 09:08

Written by Fhuesc on 24.01.2009 at 08:22

@JohnDoe: what i wrote wasn't an insult, it was only a question. Taka and Hobbit, posted some truths that explain the why of my question, so im not going to repeat them.

@Marcel: I'm not blinded, but yes my hatred towards capitalism is huge, but how can not be?, it has made the Earth a living hell for most of their inhabitants (human or not). Taka, already stated this but i think it's important, communism doesn't pretend that everyone it's equal, that would be impossible. One of the basic statements of communism, is De cada cual según su capacidad; a cada cual según sus necesidades, this is kinda hard for me to translate, From everyone according to his/her capacity, for each one according his/her necessity, in simple words, everyone has to give what he/she can give, since we all are have different skills and not everyone need the same things. Finally, yes i never claimed that at this point communism was something more than a theory, but everything has to start in the theory, or how do you think that technology, buildings, even a cake, started?

oh well - isn't telling someone NOT speaking with his brain an euphemism for= that someone is not thinking=that someone must have said something stupid? Well, that was the insult. The answer to your question is YES, I have read from Engels and Marx at least, I just don't agree to what they say there, is that so hard to understand? Is nothing more than an utopia IMO; I know this thread is in the serious discussion forum, but a less serious remark, a last one from me - for those who have read part four of Swift's Gulliver's Travel - the part with the intelligent, talking horses and their perfect society... well, that utopia/fairy tale ain't far from the ideas of (sorry I mention again) communists idealism.

I just don't believe the ideas of communism can be implemented, that's all. Not soon, in fact not ever. There's always gonna be a "villain" to use these ideas for his own purposes, it's happened before, at least let's hope it won't happen again, not too soon, not ever.

First, i think it is not an insult that fhuesc tell you that you aren't speaking with your brain, i believe it to, and what i mean with this? you are speaking with your feelings, the feelings about what you have lived. You say that in this "communist" jail you saw torture, murder, getting rid of all opposition in the most atrocious and violent way, putting in jail even highschool students, intelectuals, writers, priests, artists, former politicians, all anticommunist resistance. I wanna ask you, if you really really havent seen the same things in common jails? in capitalist jails, or do you think that the ones that oppose capitalism deserve it? its sad that you have to live trough this regime thats far away from what a real communism is.

And i think that many people here has tried to explain that humans are not selfish or villain because of its nature, so i will not say the same things. Just try to understand that what you have lived has nothing to do with communism.

Written by Uller on 26.01.2009 at 10:04

Written by [user id=17278] on 25.01.2009 at 09:08

Written by Fhuesc on 24.01.2009 at 08:22

@JohnDoe: what i wrote wasn't an insult, it was only a question. Taka and Hobbit, posted some truths that explain the why of my question, so im not going to repeat them.

@Marcel: I'm not blinded, but yes my hatred towards capitalism is huge, but how can not be?, it has made the Earth a living hell for most of their inhabitants (human or not). Taka, already stated this but i think it's important, communism doesn't pretend that everyone it's equal, that would be impossible. One of the basic statements of communism, is De cada cual según su capacidad; a cada cual según sus necesidades, this is kinda hard for me to translate, From everyone according to his/her capacity, for each one according his/her necessity, in simple words, everyone has to give what he/she can give, since we all are have different skills and not everyone need the same things. Finally, yes i never claimed that at this point communism was something more than a theory, but everything has to start in the theory, or how do you think that technology, buildings, even a cake, started?

oh well - isn't telling someone NOT speaking with his brain an euphemism for= that someone is not thinking=that someone must have said something stupid? Well, that was the insult. The answer to your question is YES, I have read from Engels and Marx at least, I just don't agree to what they say there, is that so hard to understand? Is nothing more than an utopia IMO; I know this thread is in the serious discussion forum, but a less serious remark, a last one from me - for those who have read part four of Swift's Gulliver's Travel - the part with the intelligent, talking horses and their perfect society... well, that utopia/fairy tale ain't far from the ideas of (sorry I mention again) communists idealism.

I just don't believe the ideas of communism can be implemented, that's all. Not soon, in fact not ever. There's always gonna be a "villain" to use these ideas for his own purposes, it's happened before, at least let's hope it won't happen again, not too soon, not ever.

First, i think it is not an insult that fhuesc tell you that you aren't speaking with your brain, i believe it to, and what i mean with this? you are speaking with your feelings, the feelings about what you have lived. You say that in this "communist" jail you saw torture, murder, getting rid of all opposition in the most atrocious and violent way, putting in jail even highschool students, intelectuals, writers, priests, artists, former politicians, all anticommunist resistance. I wanna ask you, if you really really havent seen the same things in common jails? in capitalist jails, or do you think that the ones that oppose capitalism deserve it? its sad that you have to live trough this regime thats far away from what a real communism is.

And i think that many people here has tried to explain that humans are not selfish or villain because of its nature, so i will not say the same things. Just try to understand that what you have lived has nothing to do with communism.

Written by Uller on 27.01.2009 at 10:14

With only the social revolution, the proletariat wont become a collection of saints, it wont be immunized against errors and weakness. But the possible errors (y los intentos interesadamente egoístas de cabalgar sobre otros[i dont know how to translate this]) will inevitably lead it to understand this true.

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin - Questions of national policy and proletarian internationalism

Written by Ernis on 27.01.2009 at 13:16

Written by Uller on 27.01.2009 at 10:14

With only the social revolution, the proletariat wont become a collection of saints, it wont be immunized against errors and weakness. But the possible errors (y los intentos interesadamente egoístas de cabalgar sobre otros[i dont know how to translate this]) will inevitably lead it to understand this true.

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin - Questions of national policy and proletarian internationalism

But the possible errors (and the selfish attempts of riding on other people's backs/suppressing others) will inevitably lead to understand this is true....

What is "interesadamente"? Dictionary doesn't contain this word....is it a misspelling or does the word exist in spoken form only?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.01.2009 at 13:29

Written by Ernis on 27.01.2009 at 13:16

Written by Uller on 27.01.2009 at 10:14

With only the social revolution, the proletariat wont become a collection of saints, it wont be immunized against errors and weakness. But the possible errors (y los intentos interesadamente egoístas de cabalgar sobre otros[i dont know how to translate this]) will inevitably lead it to understand this true.

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin - Questions of national policy and proletarian internationalism

But the possible errors (and the selfish attempts of riding on other people's backs/suppressing others) will inevitably lead to understand this is true....

What is "interesadamente"? Dictionary doesn't contain this word....is it a misspelling or does the word exist in spoken form only?

The Spanish - Dutch dicitionary I have here does contain the word and it means "out of self-interest"

Written by [user id=36088] on 26.11.2008 at 07:31

In theory, Communsim is the best form of government. In theory...