Written by Zombie on 25.04.2011 at 15:42

On a side note, even thought i'm supportive to the Bahraini revolution, Shia Muslims have the most extremist opinions on Israel (ex: Iran, Syria, and Lebanon), so i guess what has happened is in Israel's best interest, just like all the dictatorships in the middle east was in Israel's best interest (and i quote Beniamin Netanyahu saying: "Hosni Mubarak is a strategic treasure to the security of Israel", and a few days before Mubarak's removal from power he went crying for help in the European Parliament asking the EU to "force" Egypt to respect its peace treaty with Israel)

The dilemma for Israelis is to support the stable and known or the unknown?
[URL=http://www.image-upload.net/viewer.php?file=bckgm9i03nggebafwsl.jpg][/URL]
With such opinion oriented crowds, it's not a hard position to grasp - Israel rather prefers the known.

I think Israel should support the protests towards a more democratic systems in those countries and hold on to the cliche "It's better to have a democracy that hates you, then a dictatorship that loves you". Personally, I wish all these protestors a better future & wish them all the best of luck.

I doubt the figurative loaded language, but if it makes you feel better, you're welcome (I doubt tho, if makes you look better).
Yes, I think it would be of the best interest of two of the people's to respect the peace treaties.

Written by Candlemass on 25.04.2011 at 16:21

I doubt the figurative loaded language, but if it makes you feel better, you're welcome (I doubt tho, if makes you look better).
Yes, I think it would be of the best interest of two of the people's to respect the peace treaties.

No loaded language there, peace is always in the best interest of all parties, but that doesn't justify the straight-forward accusation of the Egyptian people to be "enemies of peace and to Israel" that Netanyahu implied when he called for the support of a dictator that suppresses freedom, and also it is by no means acceptable to interfere in our domestic matter by any foreign state, even if a friendly one.

Written by Zombie on 25.04.2011 at 17:34

No loaded language there, peace is always in the best interest of all parties, but that doesn't justify the straight-forward accusation of the Egyptian people to be "enemies of peace and to Israel" that Netanyahu implied when he called for the support of a dictator that suppresses freedom, and also it is by no means acceptable to interfere in our domestic matter by any foreign state, even if a friendly one.

I don't watch too much news. Can you link me to Netanyahu accusing that?
Why not refer to a domestic matter? Aren't you supportive towards the Bahraini revolution?
Wouldn't you like you're government to voice that support?

Written by Candlemass on 25.04.2011 at 17:47

I don't watch too much news. Can you link me to Netanyahu accusing that?
Why not refer to a domestic matter? Aren't you supportive towards the Bahraini revolution?
Wouldn't you like you're government to voice that support?

Having a personal opinion about an issue is very different than if a head of state interferes in the domestic affairs of a foreign country in an official public statement.
and no i would not want my government to voice support for the Bahraini people because this way Egypt would not be so different than Saudi arabia who sent troops to kill the protesters, i think the maximum that my government can offer is to condemn the attacks on unarmed civilians, but other than that, it is their business, and their revolution, and the Bahraini people have to fight their own battles.

i couldn't find the actual speech that i've read before, it dissapeared from the internet, lol
however, here's the cleaned-up, trimmed, haaretz version of the speech (which holds the same accusation of the egyptian people being hostile, but in 'nicer' words.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-urges-west-make-sure-new-egypt-regime-honors-peace-deal-1.340691

Written by Zombie on 25.04.2011 at 18:40

Having a personal opinion about an issue is very different than if a head of state interferes in the domestic affairs of a foreign country in an official public statement.
and no i would not want my government to voice support for the Bahraini people because this way Egypt would not be so different than Saudi arabia who sent troops to kill the protesters, i think the maximum that my government can offer is to condemn the attacks on unarmed civilians, but other than that, it is their business, and their revolution, and the Bahraini people have to fight their own battles.

i couldn't find the actual speech that i've read before, it dissapeared from the internet, lol
however, here's the cleaned-up, trimmed, haaretz version of the speech (which holds the same accusation of the egyptian people being hostile, but in 'nicer' words.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-urges-west-make-sure-new-egypt-regime-honors-peace-deal-1.340691

After decades of government marketing hostility via mass media towards, never mind Israel, but Jews in general and blaming them for there own made ills.
Now, never mind the moral perspective on this, but it is a breach of the 1979 peace agreement ("[both countries] shall ? abstain from hostile propaganda").

You did not deliver that speech, but let's assume hostile was it.
The Egyptian army is still running drills against "Israeli targets". Where the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is in print, and selling. The state-owned Egyptian newspaper al-Ahram stated Jews made Matza from the blood of (non-Jewish) children.
How about sharing with us about TV series in Egyp concerning Jews?
Is this not hostile?


Wouldn't be different then Saudi arabia, except the goverment will be actually supporting the people's will? Which is a good thing I suppose.
Why should "they" fight there own battle against a government which in the first place should have been serving the people and not itself?

Written by Candlemass on 25.04.2011 at 19:12

...

You said it, State-run TV, State-run newspaper (al ahram), it is the old regime that fueled the hate towards Israel, in order to create an "enemy figure" for the society to function, as Karl Schmidt said. and Israel was being used as a scapegoat, an excuse for keeping the emergency law for 30 years, an excuse for continuing mandatory conscription in the army, an excuse for their incompetency (remember the shark in sharm el sheikh incident, state media actually explained it as Israel's fault as they sent aggressive sharks into egyptian coats, lol), israel was used by the government to kill the popularity of any uprising public figure who could pose a threat to Mubarak's throne s they instantly "accused them" of being "Israel's friend", ... and so on.
On the other hand, Egypt was Israels biggest ally and "strategic treasure", the past government sold natural gas to Israel powering 40% of its electrical needs with one third of its minimum international price, Israelis are allowed into Sinai without a visa, and at last but not least, helping you enforce your blockade on Gaza and destroying supply tunnels.

so, the OBVIOUS deal was to sacrifice the "friendship" of the egyptian people, in return you have our government sucking your cock.

Written by Zombie on 25.04.2011 at 23:59

You said it, State-run TV, State-run newspaper (al ahram), it is the old regime that fueled the hate towards Israel, in order to create an "enemy figure" for the society to function, as Karl Schmidt said. and Israel was being used as a scapegoat, an excuse for keeping the emergency law for 30 years, an excuse for continuing mandatory conscription in the army, an excuse for their incompetency (remember the shark in sharm el sheikh incident, state media actually explained it as Israel's fault as they sent aggressive sharks into egyptian coats, lol), israel was used by the government to kill the popularity of any uprising public figure who could pose a threat to Mubarak's throne s they instantly "accused them" of being "Israel's friend", ... and so on.
On the other hand, Egypt was Israels biggest ally and "strategic treasure", the past government sold natural gas to Israel powering 40% of its electrical needs with one third of its minimum international price, Israelis are allowed into Sinai without a visa, and at last but not least, helping you enforce your blockade on Gaza and destroying supply tunnels.

so, the OBVIOUS deal was to sacrifice the "friendship" of the egyptian people, in return you have our government sucking your cock.

hah...lol.

I wish it was myn, but it isn't, it's the Israeli government's.
What truly matters is the Egyptian people, I have little doubt here.
What can I say? I wish a fresh and good luck to the Egyptian people. Godspeed.

Written by Candlemass on 26.04.2011 at 00:20

hah...lol.

I wish it was myn, but it isn't, it's the Israeli government's.
What truly matters is the Egyptian people, I have little doubt here.
What can I say? I wish a fresh and good luck to the Egyptian people. Godspeed.

I wish so too, but the vast majority of Egyptian hatred towards Israel is because of the Palestinian problem, not because of the Egyptian-Israeli war 40 years ago.
So, when Palestine is declared a legitimate state it'll absorb alot of the arab hatred towards Israel, and all what would be left is a few extremist ignorants who believe it is a religious duty to eradicate anyone of a different faith.

Written by Zombie on 26.04.2011 at 00:53

Written by Candlemass on 26.04.2011 at 00:20

hah...lol.

I wish it was myn, but it isn't, it's the Israeli government's.
What truly matters is the Egyptian people, I have little doubt here.
What can I say? I wish a fresh and good luck to the Egyptian people. Godspeed.

I wish so too, but the vast majority of Egyptian hatred towards Israel is because of the Palestinian problem, not because of the Egyptian-Israeli war 40 years ago.
So, when Palestine is declared a legitimate state it'll absorb alot of the arab hatred towards Israel, and all what would be left is a few extremist ignorants who believe it is a religious duty to eradicate anyone of a different faith.

Probably true, I agree.
I also hope they can get there own state and the current occupation will end.
They have been deprived too long of there political rights.

Israeli minister: Gas deal with Egypt most important Camp David output.
Israel, which enjoys below-market gas prices from Egypt after Camp David Accords, considers alternatives to Egyptian gas flow in light of recent pipeline bombings and political winds of change.
Students march from Cairo University to the Israeli embassy, demanding an end to normalisation with Israel.

Is anyone sure that Israel Sued Facebook For 1 Billion $ for not closing the 3rd Intifada page since earlier time?
If yes, then what's the point? since they've created a new one with 258,868 users till now and the first one had about 350,000 users! also they have their own website!

Out of curiosity, what news sites do you guys follow? Because, I'm getting pretty sick of seeing articles about Donald Trump. Time to broaden my horizons.

Palestinian elections to take place through 1 year, following Fatah-Hamas reconciliation.
Netanyahu: Palestinian Authority must choose - peace with Israel or Hamas.

Written by wormdrink414 on 28.04.2011 at 10:56

Out of curiosity, what news sites do you guys follow? Because, I'm getting pretty sick of seeing articles about Donald Trump. Time to broaden my horizons.

Under this topic?

http://www.Haaretz.com/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middleeast/roundup
http://www.ynetnews.com
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/middle_east/

Rather diverse, in the Israeli sites you will find the most 'contradicting' opinions. ("Seeking peace, Netanyhu must choose state over land" vs "Debunking the 2-state myth").

Written by wormdrink414 on 28.04.2011 at 10:56

Out of curiosity, what news sites do you guys follow? Because, I'm getting pretty sick of seeing articles about Donald Trump. Time to broaden my horizons.

Recently, those are the most leading news agencies within the Arab world and the middle east:
http://english.aljazeera.net/
http://english.alarabiya.net/

Also you may try: http://rt.com/news/

And the rest are well-known like Reuters, BBC, etc...

But actually I don't stick to a specific source! because recently many news agencies are focusing on the middle-east issues.

Former heads of security services: Netanyahu, a major threat to Israel.

Written by 0rpheus on 28.04.2011 at 21:34

Former heads of security services: Netanyahu, a major threat to Israel.

Ex-security officials, business execs to push peace agenda

The group of some 40 prominent personalities includes former Mossad head Danny Yatom, former Shin Bet head Yaakov Perry, former IDF chief Amnon Lipkin- Shahak, former head of the Shin Bet Ami Ayalon, former Labor Party chief Amram Mitzna, Idan Ofer, owner of the ZIM shipping company, and Yuval Rabin, son of slain prime minister Yitzhak Rabin.

Written by Candlemass on 28.04.2011 at 21:51

Ex-security officials, business execs to push peace agenda

Can the Israelis protest and kick Netanyahu out?! Maybe they should give a try, It's wind of change through the middle east!

Written by 0rpheus on 28.04.2011 at 23:38

Written by Candlemass on 28.04.2011 at 21:51

Ex-security officials, business execs to push peace agenda

Can the Israelis protest and kick Netanyahu out?! Maybe they should give a try, It's wind of change through the middle east!

Not probable, even tho I would like it to happen.
He is a so called "hardliner", considerably right wing, and the street, like most "streets" prefer are (vulgarly) patriotic - and for some reason, these lines
speak to them better then others. For Social psychologists to tell us I assume.

Just was watching, how identifying yourself with a particular group can distort your thinking.

Written by Candlemass on 28.04.2011 at 23:58

Just was watching, how identifying yourself with a particular group can distort your thinking.

Indeed!

Gaddafi Troops Raping, Issued Viagra: U.S. Envoys
eh?

Written by Candlemass on 28.04.2011 at 23:58

Just was watching, how identifying yourself with a particular group can distort your thinking.

+1

Written by Candlemass on 29.04.2011 at 08:41

Gaddafi Troops Raping, Issued Viagra: U.S. Envoys
eh?

WTF!

http://rt.com/news/features/libya-protest-undress-femen/

Written by 0rpheus on 30.04.2011 at 00:38

Written by Candlemass on 29.04.2011 at 08:41

Gaddafi Troops Raping, Issued Viagra: U.S. Envoys
eh?

WTF!

http://rt.com/news/features/libya-protest-undress-femen/

The Irony.
Tho I guess it's not woman who take off shirts for gadaffi, it's money...

Written by Candlemass on 30.04.2011 at 09:19

Written by 0rpheus on 30.04.2011 at 00:38

http://rt.com/news/features/libya-protest-undress-femen/

The Irony.
Tho I guess it's not woman who take off shirts for gadaffi, it's money...

Of course. Recently, many things related to that man are dramatically funny yet impossible!

Some pictuers from the Banias. CNN reporting.
WTF is even going there beyond what is western media sciolism?
75% of the country is Sunni, while most of the army is Shia (mostly Alawite).
It sounds like historical conflicts are also playing a part (if not major)[?]

Israel kills protesters on catastrophe day:
One person had been killed and at least 150 hurt in the Qalandiya village near the city of Ramallah in central West Bank.
In Syria's Golan Heights, at least 12 protesters were killed and 30 wounded by Israeli military fire. In Lebanon, Israeli forces killed six protesters, injuring 71 others, 13 of them seriously.

Written by 0rpheus on 15.05.2011 at 20:13

Israel kills protesters on catastrophe day:
One person had been killed and at least 150 hurt in the Qalandiya village near the city of Ramallah in central West Bank.
In Syria's Golan Heights, at least 12 protesters were killed and 30 wounded by Israeli military fire. In Lebanon, Israeli forces killed six protesters, injuring 71 others, 13 of them seriously.

At least you didn't add to "peaceful" to the word "protesters", that would be a laugh.
Does victiomhood become a hobby, when you have little to be proud of?
I guess they didn't die for nothing, they ("shahids") can be added to the charts on ISM.
It will help them continue confuse quality and quantity, and help create more of an aggressive-victimhood (and who knows this better then Jews).
What a waste of human life. I even doubt I'm the cynical one here.

Some people live in a fantasy that they can go to the streets, vandalize them, burn things, shout - and change will come. Never mind sympathy.
How about improving literacy rates?
Maybe this book (by a Palestinian Doctor) could receive more attention where needed.
(You can order it in Arabic here cheaper then the English versions)

Written by Candlemass on 16.05.2011 at 01:00

Written by Candlemass on 16.05.2011 at 01:00

What a waste of human life. I even doubt I'm the cynical one here.

It's better to call it suicide then! since in your eyes it's a waste of human life! They did that and died for something you may never understand/believe, something you deny.

Written by Candlemass on 16.05.2011 at 01:00

Some people live in a fantasy that they can go to the streets, vandalize them, burn things, shout - and change will come.

If you mean Anarchy I agree such acts won't work with Israel as effective as within your own country against the regime, simply as it happened in Egypt. If any folk really want to clash with Israel, it must be military.

Alleged peace is a big lie! we can hope as much as we can but sooner or later another war is inevitable. What was taken by force can be restored only by force!

Yes, yet some people don't sanctify death, they prefer to sanctify life & find meaning in it.
What there is to deny? a violent crowed shouting slogans - isn't an idea/argument to deny.

Do you want to know why you use such vague terms which manipulate? what is "innocent" for a Muslim leader.
When you say "We will not harm the innocent" - it sounds good & you look good in the media using such unclear language. But you actually mean something else then the usual use of the word. This is the beauty of propaganda language.

So I look out of the window into a school yard, and think to myself what have they have done to justify they murder or up rooting by romantic bigots.
What I understand is there are many hypocrites, who think innocent people being kicked out of there houses justifies the same action.
How do they justify it? I already written on this. They rationalize; victimize; dehumanize.
If Israelis are not human, or all Israelis for all of the generations are a unified collective which you field under the term "Zionist entity"- they are far from innocent, never mind human.

So peace is a big lie, and you support war and killing. If you were to my face, I would reprimand (and then slap) you - for the simple reason of blaming me of something I never toke part in (on the contrary - for the issue of settlements in the west bank). This is what a few minutes ago the Israeli prime minister said, you are not interested in peace, the borders of 67 are not the issue - it is the borders of 48.

Nice to say you're true face. Now let's continue this trend.
Either you answer what I asked you a few times already (what do you mean by the vague term "occupation") or continue to display you're lack of intellectual honesty
to the forum readers.
If you will continue tenaciously to avoid rational argument & belief formation ("If you can't change your mind - are you sure you still have one?") - you invited to watch the link (This is How You Deal With Prejudice)
And take the last word.

I didn't mean to sanctify death whatsoever!
To deny that they have right of return to their homelands.

This video about Muslim leader is irrelevant! We are just discussing not analysing each others character.

I support war and killing?! How the hell you say that on my tongue?! Don't make your own conclusions please! It's just a viewpoint and I'm sorry if it hurts others feelings, life is harsh sometimes and so are we. Man, believe me! I don't blame you for anything.

Well I hope this shall enlighten you. This is also for anyone who finds the term "occupation" is vague when it's mentioned in Israeli-Palestinian conflict subject!

There are also in this documentary Israelis against what Israel is doing in case anyone thinks it's biased or something.