2008 U.S. Presidential Election
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Original post
Posted by Konrad, 13.08.2007 - 14:14
With much pontificating on whether to even start this one, (due to the anticipation of a major headache), I present to you the official thread of the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. I am just too damn interested in seeing what everyone (U.S. and non-U.S. citizens alike) thinks. I would like for all of us to approach this in an atypical matter. DO NOT discuss petty issues that are discussed every day by various media outlets. (Abortion, Same-Sex Marriage, Etc.) Such issues have been presented to us with intent to take our minds off of things that are actually important.
Feel free to grace us with your opinions of the Political Candidates, Political Debates, Important Issues such as solutions for Iraq, The role that the U.S. will play in the world, Etc. Try also not to look only 4 years into the future...that is what has gotten the U.S. into so much trouble in the past...
Go 'lite' on posting or quoting tons of links to other sights. Everything should come from yourself...and please keep the personal insults to a minimum...we all (hopefully) have the same goal to make the world a better place. Unfortunately that peace is currently being halted by greedy politicians. Remember to keep the big question in mind: What political figure would be the best for the entire Global community and why? Go at it fools!
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite |
19.12.2008 - 15:40 Written by Anthem on 19.12.2008 at 06:23 You blind Republicans are soooooooooooooo funny. Like I said before Obama will be on the right side of the political spectrum here in The Netherlands and in the rest of Europe. You calling him a Marxist clearly shows you have no grasp of polictics whatsoever.
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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Fhuesc |
19.12.2008 - 21:35 Written by Anthem on 19.12.2008 at 06:23 Then i'm Santa Claus
---- Hasta la victoria, siempre! Until victory, always!
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Toast Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 04:34 Toast
Account deleted Written by riffdex on 05.12.2008 at 07:38 First off, sorry for the late reply lol, i'm not on a lot lately. Second, sorry if i offended you or anyone else that wasn't what I was going for. On the other hand, while I have never lived in America myself I am confident that there is a lot of racism there, and I'm just as confident that there is more of it in the redder states of U.S.A. then in places like New York for example. Also, when you look at the actual political science it makes sense that the conservative citizens of a nation would be more racist. The left basically moves towards equality, meaning all races and people would be equal. The right leads to deeper divisions and classes in the population, and it is the idea that black people are of a lower importance/class or whatever that sparks racism. Obviously that's not tested lol, just a statment that a guy with the flu pulled out of his ass , but it'd make sense if that "there need to be classes in society" type thinking contributes to racism.
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Toast Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 04:42 Toast
Account deleted Written by Anthem on 19.12.2008 at 06:23 Obama is actually a fairly right-winged politician. He's as right winged as Canada's Conservative Prime Minister lol, and you say Marxist like it's a bad thing haha. EDIT: By the way, you know it's not just Europeans that like Obama right? It's basically the whole world except for a few deluded neo-conservatives.
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Insineratehymn Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 04:56 Insineratehymn
Account deleted Written by Anthem on 19.12.2008 at 06:23 And I'm a loaf of bread, so what's your point?
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Gigginova Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 05:02 Gigginova
Account deleted Written by [user id=34045] on 20.12.2008 at 04:42 It's sort of difficult to see him as a right-winger as it's such a negative connotation to me lol. Seriously though, I am a leftist but I endorsed him all the way in this U.S. election (despite what my fvcking dad's side of the family say!). But yeah, I agree with Toast. Bluscaponne does say "Marxist" like it's a bad thing. I think Karl Marx was a fvcking genious! He's being fooled because Marx is the "Father Of Communism"! But guess what, Communism was not intended to be negative, it was just perversed by Stalin and such ppl! Marxist philosphy is moral, merciful and beautiful! The right-wing try to maintain morality through religion, but FAIL! Because they are CORRUPT by GREED........they try to make supporting the rich sound pretty, they try make it sound like they really deserve it and the non-rich do not and why? becuase of LACK OF COMPASSION and TOTAL GREED! Liberal and Conservative applies to ALL countries of the world, but you must ask, WHY does the WORLD hate America? I ga tell you why.....cuz of the Conservatives! You think France gives a damn about the U.S. Liberals? lol (The word "Duh" comes to mind). The SHIT that communism cost, you should not blame Marx so much, that's like blaming Slayer for 'shitty death metal' lol (inspired not started). well, i say this 328979347089586794 times a week, but I'm glad The Bahamas has only LIBERAL parties and hasn't had a conservative party since before the '70's
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Insineratehymn Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 05:11 Insineratehymn
Account deleted Written by [user id=160] on 20.12.2008 at 05:02 Yeah, my parents definitely didn't like it when I supported Obama. Before the election was even held, my mother kept going off about how Obama was a terrorist and such. The reason for this was not because she supported McCain, but because Obama didn't pick Kathleen Sebelius (governor of Kansas) as his vice president. I, too, think that Sebelius should have been picked as Obama's vice president, but I still went with Obama simply for the fact that he wasn't McCain.
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Arian Totalis The Philosopher |
20.12.2008 - 08:46
@Everybody who calls Obama Right Wing: Okay, so maybe compared to international sclae of politics, you may consider him more right wing than what you're used to. Even for the average democrat, he's more right winged than most, because he is so neutral on his issues. However, looking at it from a completely technical politically scientific scale, he is very much in the middle, and most Americans are. Our country was founded by, and basically run since it's conception by Classical liberals. Classical Liberalism has four primary traits attributed to it: 1) The Responsibility of the Individual citizen to run their own lives, 2) Individualism, ordinarily thought of as one's own ability to pursue one's own talents and natural abilities, 3) Rights and freedoms, basically constitutionality, and 4) The Ideology that the Government should stay out of people's lives. On these four issues, ordinarliy parties will disagree only on the fourth one. A conservative American will ordinarly believe that the Government should stay out of the lives of the individual citizen in the sense that they have no place in Our economic affairs. When it comes to our Moral or private behavior, however, they believe that the givernment has every right. Thus Primarily christian attitudes, anti-abortion outlooks, and anti-marijuana outlooks. Because all of these things can be seen as "More moral" than other outlooks. Be a good christain, don't give up your babies, and ALL DRUGS (except for niccotine and alchahol of course, because ya know, they're not as bad for you as weed) are bad. When it comes to an American Liberal, it's the Polar Oppisite. They believe that government Programs should be employed to solve basically every problem in society (Big waste of tax-payers dollars for alot of those programs, in the eyes of most conservatives) and they believe that the government should have a place in People's economic businesses and affairs as well. When it comes to our morals though, it's more of a "In the privacy of one's own home or body, that's their business." Thus the whole Pro-choice/Marijuana legalization thing. So yeah, in the U.S., that one aspect is actually the only thing that seperates a Conservative and a Liberal. On an international scale however, the terms "Conservative" and "Liberal" have waaaay different meanings. Ordinarilly european countries have proportional represntation in their parties. The traditional forms of this often caused government instability and they fell often, thus why CHarles De Gaul came up with his semi-presidential system, and Britains strengthened their parlimentery system. However, now that they are more stable, there are more parties that are represented, thus more points of view, thus different outlooks on "Right vs Left Wing." Right wing europeans may go as far as to show Loyalty to the re-institution of Monarchy, seeing as how the believe that society should be maintained by class and a "Firm structure of Authority" (IE The State, The CHurch, and Family.) While someone Way over on the left may believe in the institution of Communism. Each outlook I would imagine is pretty unpopular, but it is still common to at least have some precepts of these political outlooks. So, the terms "Left and Right" wing are concequentially expanded. So I guess my basic point would be, On an international scale, Obama, Like most Americans, is a Moderate
---- "For the Coward there is no Life For the hero there is No Death" -Kakita Toshimoko "The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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Gigginova Account deleted |
20.12.2008 - 18:15 Gigginova
Account deleted Written by [user id=5630] on 20.12.2008 at 05:11 At least you can be vocal about it, I think it's best that I don't express to my daddy how I like him. My dad says such dumb things about him, cuz he's prejudice against Muslims and Obama has a Muslim backround.
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Fhuesc |
20.12.2008 - 21:07
@Arian: What you wrote it's just stupid, there's not such thing like"in this part of the world i'm Left, but on the other part im Right". The left and right borders are clearly delimited. Left are those whose ideology it's either Communist or Real Socialist. Right are Liberalism, Neoliberalism (Obama), Conservationism, Monarchy, Conservative Socialism (Socialdemocrats), etc. So Obama no matter in what part of the universe you are, Obama belongs to the Right wing.
---- Hasta la victoria, siempre! Until victory, always!
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Gigginova Account deleted |
21.12.2008 - 06:22 Gigginova
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@Fhuesc: ease up dude. arian was just expressing how Obama is just slightly right by worldly standards but in America he's the very best they've got. I am in The Bahamas, and there was such a huge craze concerning him, you'd swear it was our election lol. But anyway, you cannot deny that in America they're hesitant to swing left as much as other countries so don't give Arian shit! @Arian: I couldn't help but sight the part where you said that weed is worse for you than niccotine or alcohol. that's NOT true and I don't know who taught you that, but that's wrong, i'm sorry. Weed is actually much safer. Personally I don't even think it's immoral either.
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Fhuesc |
21.12.2008 - 07:10
@Gigginova: slightly!?, dude, the difference between a texas dude with a shotgun that kills mexican immigrants and Obama, it's only the accent... and the hat, skin color, etc, well but that's physical differences. Obama is as far right as possible. @Arian: my intention wasn't give you shit, like gigginova wrote, first cuz what i said it's true, second, i have the same decease that alexi laiho, curses and bad words, are my favorite vocabulary.
---- Hasta la victoria, siempre! Until victory, always!
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Arian Totalis The Philosopher |
21.12.2008 - 16:23 Written by [user id=160] on 21.12.2008 at 06:22 lol, 'twas merely sarcasm. I knew that man. I was just trying to point out different flaws behind the mindset of each political party and how the members think. Ya know? So a conservative here would tell you that weed is just this horrible and dangerous thing, but alchahol and cigerettes are okay... Get my meaning?
---- "For the Coward there is no Life For the hero there is No Death" -Kakita Toshimoko "The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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Arian Totalis The Philosopher |
21.12.2008 - 16:27 Written by Fhuesc on 20.12.2008 at 21:07 I didn't mean it in "In this part of the world I'm left, but on the other part i'm right." Indeed it doesn't matter what part of the world you come from, left is left and right is right. Liberal is liberal and conservative is conservative. What I WAS getting at is that American left and right wing politics are different than International left or right wing politics. Most americans tend to be, on international standars, moderates, because in truth, we're right in the middle, not to far to the left and not too far to the right. The differences we see in eachother are lot greater than what they really are.
---- "For the Coward there is no Life For the hero there is No Death" -Kakita Toshimoko "The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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Toast Account deleted |
22.12.2008 - 05:24 Toast
Account deleted Written by Arian Totalis on 21.12.2008 at 16:27 Meh, on an international scale i'd say you guys are more on the right side. Think of it this way, if a guy like Obama who is called a socialist in America would be thought of as a moderate conservative in Europe or Canada then that means you guys are pretty far right politically compared to most countries. With America's huge military spending, private healthcare, and all these moral laws against gay marriages and abortions I doubt many political researchers would say America is "not to far to the left and not too far to the right".
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Arian Totalis The Philosopher |
23.12.2008 - 01:54 Written by [user id=34045] on 22.12.2008 at 05:24 Then tell me why my political science professor explained it to me that way, after all, she does have a PHD in the field. Not to be rude but, Where's your P.H.D? The thing is, in international politics, right and left are put on two different extremes. In the US, right and leftist differences may seem extreme in their differences to the citizens, but in truth the differences are merely stemmed from one disagreement on the four characteristics of classical liberalism. I won't disagree that most of our politics are a little more right swaying, but Obama is actually considered to be on the left wing of politics here. He's just slightly more right wing than most leftists. He's what we'd call a "Moderate Liberal" or a "Moderate Democrat." Most americans are also either moderate liberal or moderaqte conservative, rarely will you find someone who is strictly one way or the other. though their political outlooks are the ones that are usually expressed the most strongly.
---- "For the Coward there is no Life For the hero there is No Death" -Kakita Toshimoko "The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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Toast Account deleted |
23.12.2008 - 06:55 Toast
Account deleted Written by Arian Totalis on 23.12.2008 at 01:54 I was only refering to what you said about Americans being moderates on an international scale. I don't mean this in a bad way, but you guys are pretty far right compared to other countries in the western world. I don't have a PHD in political science, but if she said anything close to "America is a moderate democracey on an international scale" she must be extremely bias. What you said about the small difference between Democrats and Republicans is totally true though, never said it wasn't. Moderate Democrats are right-winged, Moderate Republicans are just slightly more right-winged.
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LeChron James Helvetesfossen |
23.12.2008 - 11:33
Has anyone else besides me noticed these things called "Obama Mamas"? can anyone explain this phenomenon to me, i dont think i've properly grasped it.
---- Kick Ass, Die Young Less is More Stay Pure Stay Poor Music was my life, music brought me to life and music is how I will be remembered long after I leave this life. When I die there will be a final waltz in my head that only I can hear.
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Gigginova Account deleted |
20.01.2009 - 02:25 Gigginova
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So the Inaugeration is tomorrow. According to the local newspapers, hundreds of Bahamians will be there in DC. lol, where I work in the sales department/section, that's gonna be on the TV, I hope to catch some of it. Two local schools I know of in my town are having days of No Classes where they just watch the ceremony in the auditorium all day. One of them say you must come dressed in Red, White and Blue (considering it's a school IN THE BAHAMAS, I find it fvcking retarded and offensive that those colours are to be worn!). Oh and my sister tells me that the school I graduated from (which she still goes to), TV's will be all around campus to see as you walk by.
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Italics Posts: 294 |
21.01.2009 - 17:57 Written by [user id=160] on 20.01.2009 at 02:25 It's retarded and offensive to wear American colors to school in the Bahamas to you? Are you anti-american, or retardedly pro-bahamas? Actually, don't answer, because I don't care. In fact, probably nobody does.
---- But I Justify My Desire to No One
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Gigginova Account deleted |
22.01.2009 - 00:33 Gigginova
Account deleted Written by Italics on 21.01.2009 at 17:57 lol maybe you're retardedly pro-american......are you? seems so seeing as you got so defensive. RELAX. I don't hate Americans, most countries in the world have a chip on their shoulder against the red states......but that doesn't mean that there's a personal hatred. I am Pro-Bahamas in most ways, but in some ways not.....That doesn't mean I'm Anti-All other countries, hell no! I think you misunderstood. I don't see how you can NOT find it offensive for NON-Americans to wear American colours to school! It's kind of like the Bahamian kids are degrading themselves or disrespecting their own country! I mean you must admit, that's REALLY NOT NECESSARY! I mean, on some occasions it's okay, like when I was still in school we had a fund raiser for Haiti, because they're the poorest country in the region.....so that's okay cuz we're aiding the Haitians and compassion is involved! But with the adorning of American colours without having national-ties to it is uncalled for and rediculous. don't try and act hard and tough around me!
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Italics Posts: 294 |
22.01.2009 - 02:39 Written by [user id=160] on 22.01.2009 at 00:33 Oh, just admit it, you would have had your panties all in a bunch had I - or any person of any country - said "How unamerican and ridiculous it is for people to wear BAJAMA'S COLORS to school." You would have been like, "Wtf? What's the big deal with that?" I was just surprised that you seemed so upset and insulted that people would wear the colors of another country in order to celebrate what they felt was a great day for that country. Would you have been upset if after 911 people had put up american flags in respect for the country? If people can show respect for other countries on sorrowful days for that country, why not show respect for them for other countries whenever they are going through a good time (granted, I don't believe Obama being president is a good thing... but that's another discussion! Actually, not really, but not relevant to what we are discussing) Oh, and I actually laughed out loud whenever I read you saying "don't try to act all hard and tough around ME!" I must thank you for that laugh. I love it when super tough, attractive boys like you show guys like me who is boss!
---- But I Justify My Desire to No One
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LeChron James Helvetesfossen |
22.01.2009 - 03:30
We had a drinking game tied to the inauguration ceremony. i skipped school and drank from 8:30 in the morning until the ceremony was over. then i went to my last class hella faded. i love inaugurations, what a better way to celebrate the "most historic event ever".
---- Kick Ass, Die Young Less is More Stay Pure Stay Poor Music was my life, music brought me to life and music is how I will be remembered long after I leave this life. When I die there will be a final waltz in my head that only I can hear.
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Gigginova Account deleted |
24.01.2009 - 02:12 Gigginova
Account deleted Written by Italics on 22.01.2009 at 02:39 Okay. I do appologise for that "acting hard" comment. But of all seriousness, if Americans would have deemed it rediculous for them to wear Bahamian colours......I WOULD AGREE!!! I would NOT say "wtf, what's the big deal?!" I would NOT be upset because in that case, the American would NOT be dissing my country! Just like How I never once dissed America in my post! I was just being logical! Once again, you're just interpreting what I said wrongly and taking it the wrong way! and about the "911" thing you said......okay, that may not be wrong to show respect in that manner, you have a point....but personally, I've never heard of countries showing respect in that way, to me that's odd. I showed respect for India when their terrorist attack took place, I wore white the following Monday to show respect for those who died (as Indians wear white to mourn instead of black). But sporting a flag or flag colours that isn't yours is incredibly fake.
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Gigginova Account deleted |
26.01.2009 - 03:31 Gigginova
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Wow check this out, it's repulsive: [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD3p_g2jXh8&feature=channel[/URL] [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k&NR=1[/URL]
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Insineratehymn Account deleted |
27.01.2009 - 04:12 Insineratehymn
Account deleted Written by [user id=160] on 26.01.2009 at 03:31 Where's a facepalm macro when you need one? People like the ones in the videos are the reason why I prefer to stay indoors.
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Anthem |
27.01.2009 - 06:31
With all due respect to all who post here. You all have different experiences from many nations. You along with myself have our life experiences and education to guide us. I could say this or that about any given nation or ideology, as you could say to me ( as i am a conservative fellow) you are a right wing this or that. We need to keep in context what the American philosophy is with respect to the recent election. those of you abroad may adore a certain ideology which i do not aspire to. that doesnt mean it is not right for you or your nation. Here in America we have had a unique experience of individualism. You CANNOT understand it unless you have lived it. I do not with all my heart wish to disparage any other nation or philosophy, but here in the U.S. one cannot veiw politics as they do in say Europe. It cannot be done. All that said. In the American spectrum of politics Obama was voted the most liberal senator in the senate. For us that means something. He one the election but 46% of the people did not agree. It was not a landslide. There will be more devisive electins to come you can be sure. As a sidenote it is hard to loose an election when the national media is slobbering all over you. Harvard, CMI, UCLA, Pew research etc have all done studies on media bias in this country. One journalist ( and I use the term loosely) had thrill up his leg over an Obama speech. Look folks, he is not "The Christ" he is a man who has already changed his positions daily to accomadate. He may be smart but he is NOT wise. Wisdom does not come from a smooth tongue but a sound mind. Please remember to veiw this election from A U.S. point of veiw. If you think he is going to change the world you have deluded yourself.
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite |
27.01.2009 - 07:46 Written by Anthem on 27.01.2009 at 06:31 Remeber the first time Bush Jr. won? More than 50% of the people did not agree, plsu there was election fraud in Florida. And for the seocnd term as president he also did not get the popular vote.
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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Italics Posts: 294 |
28.01.2009 - 02:16 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.01.2009 at 07:46 UGHHHH!!!! This is what I cannot stand about most metalstormers Do you just say random things and hope that they are correct? Bush DID win the popular vote his second term. And the comment you made about the 46% (actually, Mccain got 48% of the popular vote), was not to say that McCain should've been president. He was making the point that Obama is not HALF as popular as the media makes him out to be. The way they have covered things, you'd think that Obama had won 90% of the popular vote... not barely over half. Way to make a completely useless, irrelevant post.
---- But I Justify My Desire to No One
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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite |
28.01.2009 - 02:21
@Italics Bush's administration made it out to be to be he got the popular vote the seconde time arund around when in fact he didn't, so please sleep tight. As for Obama... I hopr you will realise soon what a Godsend he is compared to the last couple of presidents before him (and yes I also mean compared to CLinton)
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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