Written by Zombie on 26.07.2011 at 23:39

Written by Candlemass on 26.07.2011 at 22:36

... how well will it sit with Hamas?

Hamas is an opportunistic and exploitative movement that gains support by being the "resistance" movement, i personally do not consider them to be terrorists -does not mean that i approve with them bombing innocent civilians- but i believe in their right to fight the occupation, palestine IS occupied, right ?

so, anyways if a fair-peace treaty is signed, Hamas would lose alot of its control over the gaza people, the people, the civilians on both sides have been exhausted from decades of war i think they stopped giving a fuck about "claiming back all of palestine" or "we want all of our promised land", this is ancient talk that our grandfathers would've thought, i do not think its the way anymore.

i believe that if a two-state solution is setteled this year, the arab-israeli tension and mutual 'distrust' engraved in people's minds would be done for good in 10 to 15 years time max.

Terrorism is a tactic. I would not define a group by there tactics alone. Also (accepted) governments use these tactics.
"palestine IS occupied" is sentence built out of two vague words. 1967 borders are occupied, before the green line is occupied like US is occupied - it isn't worth of the title.
And second what is "Palestine" except a geographic region?
It was "occupied" by Egyptians, Canaanites, Hebrews, Greek, Romans, Turkish, British, Jews, Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Israelis...Sand does not give people rights, people declare rights usually historical, by divine right or national. Eventually land is human potential.
Besides people do not have to play a zero sum-game.
My hopes are that Israelis open there eyes and hearts, and do not vote Bibi again and rather vote Israeli left wing.
Who knows maybe when Egyptians can visit Israel for metal concerts and Israeli Egypt for concerts.

An Israeli spring, could it be?

http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/190363/20110801/israel-protests-has-israel-been-hit-by-the-arab-spring.htm

Written by Zombie on 02.08.2011 at 00:23

An Israeli spring, could it be?

http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/190363/20110801/israel-protests-has-israel-been-hit-by-the-arab-spring.htm

Thanks to the Arab's push, yes

More seriously, like in a few Arab states it could bring change or not.
Left wing in economics is also left wing is security (the political figures). Hope for good.

Scenes from the Mubarak trial

Former Minister of Interior



Mubarak's two sons



And, The Son of a bitch himself

Written by Zombie on 03.08.2011 at 15:08

Scenes from the Mubarak trial

Former Minister of Interior



Mubarak's two sons



And, The Son of a bitch himself

Hope to see our president and all symbols of corruption in our country in a same situation here.. but

Do you think there is any chance of armed resistance in Syria? How come the military in Egypt was unwilling to shoot people while in Syria there is no problem of doing so?

Situation in Egypt is very different than in Syria or Libya,

1) first of all, you dont start shooting 85 million people when your whole army is less than 2 million conscripts, who are not willing to shoot their own people. population in syria is less than 20 million and the army is huge in numbers.

2) secondly, Syria's army is mostly shiaa, while the people are mostly sunni, so it's easier to justify killing someone of a different religion/sect than killing someone who belongs to your same religion/sect such as in Egypt (Almost 100% of the army are sunni like the majority of the people).

3) All the generals in the Syrian Army are relatives of Bashar, so they fight for him and not for the country, unlike the Egyptian army that (part of it is corrupt and are loyal to Mubarak) but most of it are patriotic who have no ties to the regime and joined the army to serve their country.

4) Egypt receives the second largest military aid in the middle east region (second to Israel) worth 1.5 Billion dollars annually, and it is the main source of funding for the Egyptian Military, so if they start shooting unarmed civilians, then its goodbye fucking funding, the US people will not let their tax money go to kill innocent Egyptians calling for democracy, so it wasn't in the Head Military figures best interest to shoot civilians

5) With all due respect to yemen, bahrain, libya, or syria, these are countries that the world can ignore, and have been ignoring for the past years (sometimes decades as in Libya), but Egypt is different, we control the Suez Canal that 40% of the world's trade pass through daily, and already international oil and prices peaked during the 18 days of the Egyptian revolution.. also the foreign investments, we're an open market countries with foreign investments worth billions, now those powerful investors will not let their money go to waste and would pressure world governments to take action, we're not a communist country like libya or syria .. so the foreign pressure was huge and it is mainly the reason why Mubarak went down so quickly.

6) Egyptian Military have been ruling Egypt for the past 52 years; Nasser, Sadat, and Mubarak ... and they were not willing to let the country's rule out of their hands, and what Mubarak had in mind was grooming his son Gamal to succeed him in this year's elections, so the military already had a plan to overthrow Mubarak by the end of 2011 if he had introduced Gamal as a presidential candidate, and what the egyptian people did is basically serve the country on a golden plate to the military, and make this "overthrow" a popular demand rather than a military conspiracy to keep power to themselves

7) Egyptian Military controls 35% of the Egyptian economy, bonds in stock market, agricultural companies, food products manufacture, oil companies, household products, hotels and resorts, ...etc ... so, stability of the economy and the country as a whole is in the military's best interest, and if streets were running with blood it wouldnt be so good economical-wise to the Military

so, these are "a few" reasons why Mubarak went down so quickly and why the Military didn't shoot at protesters.

Btw, did anyone notice that if Tantawi grew a mustache he would look just like Sadat ? lol

Zombie I agree with your opinion and agree with all these reasons but let me ask you something:
Why does Parack Obama tell Mubarak over all the world that he must go down and leave the governance after One Week (for god sake), While after 4 months of beginning this Revolution Parack for this moment didn't say any word about that Bashar must leave the governance???

Written by Zombie on 05.08.2011 at 18:42

5) With all due respect to yemen, bahrain, libya, or syria, these are countries that the world can ignore, and have been ignoring for the past years (sometimes decades as in Libya), but Egypt is different, we control the Suez Canal that 40% of the world's trade pass through daily, and already international oil and prices peaked during the 18 days of the Egyptian revolution.. also the foreign investments, we're an open market countries with foreign investments worth billions, now those powerful investors will not let their money go to waste and would pressure world governments to take action, we're not a communist country like libya or syria .. so the foreign pressure was huge and it is mainly the reason why Mubarak went down so quickly.

No no no, I don't have the same opinion of that, Do you know that Lybia is more important than Egypt in an American's interests.. I know your country has The Suez Canal and .... etc ....
but my friend the wars that do now is an Oil wars, you country is a Commercial, Tourist country and don't have alot of wealth underground..

Written by Zombie on 05.08.2011 at 18:42

2) secondly, Syria's army is mostly shiaa

You mean 'Alawy?

My heart goes out to the Syrian people. I have been following the news ever since the uprising arose and I really hope you'll soon put an end to the tyranny of al-Assad. I just saw the ruddle-spewn streets and goods of your great country being dismantled by his partisans whose obtuseness and stupidity are beyond limits. Are they actualy serious? Do they really believe that the world will buy it? Did they really think that we would actually believe that the people shown in Al-Jazeera footage, who were destroying everything, are the peaceful protestants? It's obviously clear that those persons are the disguised militia of al-Assad who are trying to make the protestants look bad, and have obsolutely no interest in the country's wellbeing.

My sincere condolences to the grieving families. You're truly a great and incredibly brave nation. May God be with you. Just remember you're not alone in this. Definitely Not.

Written by Metal_4Ever on 06.08.2011 at 02:02

Zombie I agree with your opinion and agree with all these reasons but let me ask you something:
Why does Parack Obama tell Mubarak over all the world that he must go down and leave the governance after One Week (for god sake), While after 4 months of beginning this Revolution Parack for this moment didn't say any word about that Bashar must leave the governance???

as i said, syria is a communist-economy country, with no foreign investments, and the whole world isn't affected by the revolution going there, maybe just the neighboring countries.. so, USA isn't harmed by the situation in Syria, and it does not affect their buissness

Written by Metal_4Ever on 06.08.2011 at 02:02

No no no, I don't have the same opinion of that, Do you know that Lybia is more important than Egypt in an American's interests.. I know your country has The Suez Canal and .... etc ....
but my friend the wars that do now is an Oil wars, you country is a Commercial, Tourist country and don't have alot of wealth underground..

i'm not saying that Egypt is important and libya or syria are not important, i'm saying that Egypt is importnt to the USA's buissness, and libya and syria are not neccissarily as much important, i mean, libya has been under an US embargo (boycott) for nearly 30 years, and there are absolutely no american conpamies in libya, not even a mcdonald's ... now the "oil" thing might not be completely true, surely USA has the habbit of invading arab countries for oil, but the revolution in libya ws failing horribly and was turning into a massacre and the Libyan ambassador in the UN himself asked the UN for help, and its not a solo act from the US, lots of other countries are prticipating too, among those re two arab states; qatar and jordan .. so i doubt that the US militry intervention in Libya is for the oil, it was mainly humanitarian and i believe that -for once- the US is waging a war out of good intention (maybe they'll be rewarded by some oil, or a headstart in investments, or contracts with major US construction companies in rebuilding the country, i dunno.. surely they'll get "rewarded" somehow, how its not like the libyan revolution ws a US plot to intervene, this is HIGHLY illogical

and PS: Egypt has underground wealth, Egypt is one of the world's largest exporters of natural gas, we're self-sufficient in oil, and we export, and we have gold mines and uranium mines too .. so egypt is FILTHY rich in minerals.

Written by Metal_4Ever on 06.08.2011 at 02:02

You mean 'Alawy?

yes

Written by Mindheist on 06.08.2011 at 08:58

My heart goes out to the Syrian people. I have been following the news ever since the uprising arose and I really hope you'll soon put an end to the tyranny of al-Assad. I just saw the ruddle-spewn streets and goods of your great country being dismantled by his partisans whose obtuseness and stupidity are beyond limits. Are they actualy serious? Do they really believe that the world will buy it? Did they really think that we would actually believe that the people shown in Al-Jazeera footage, who were destroying everything, are the peaceful protestants? It's obviously clear that those persons are the disguised militia of al-Assad who are trying to make the protestants look bad, and have obsolutely no interest in the country's wellbeing.

My sincere condolences to the grieving families. You're truly a great and incredibly brave nation. May God be with you. Just remember you're not alone in this. Definitely Not.

Thanks bro for your fraternal soul and I appreciate your feelings to your Syrian brothers.
Well nobody destroy anything except 'em and no one lie except 'em, its seems an unfinished..

Written by Zombie on 06.08.2011 at 09:46

as i said, syria is a communist-economy country, with no foreign investments, and the whole world isn't affected by the revolution going there, maybe just the neighboring countries.. so, USA isn't harmed by the situation in Syria, and it does not affect their buissness

Well, USA has interests in your country and business with Mubarak's system so why does USA leave all these business with Mubarak's system and told him that he must leave the governance you said that USA ain't affected by the revolution in Syria and you didn't answer me well.
as well as the revolution in Egypt had got a lot of positive stands from the foreign countries and that was one of a lot of main reasons to success this revolution while in Syria there isn't any stands of what happening here except some of stands from neighbors (Turkey) as you said, If syria is an ineffective country why does Obama said that Syria has the key of the Stability in the Middle-east and why does Rami Makhlof (Bashar Al-Assad's cousin) said that the peace in Israel is related to the peace in Syria?

Written by Zombie on 06.08.2011 at 09:46

i'm not saying that Egypt is important and libya or syria are not important, i'm saying that Egypt is importnt to the USA's buissness, and libya and syria are not neccissarily as much important, i mean, libya has been under an US embargo (boycott) for nearly 30 years, and there are absolutely no american conpamies in libya, not even a mcdonald's ... now the "oil" thing might not be completely true, surely USA has the habbit of invading arab countries for oil, but the revolution in libya ws failing horribly and was turning into a massacre and the Libyan ambassador in the UN himself asked the UN for help, and its not a solo act from the US, lots of other countries are prticipating too, among those re two arab states; qatar and jordan .. so i doubt that the US militry intervention in Libya is for the oil, it was mainly humanitarian and i believe that -for once- the US is waging a war out of good intention (maybe they'll be rewarded by some oil, or a headstart in investments, or contracts with major US construction companies in rebuilding the country, i dunno.. surely they'll get "rewarded" somehow, how its not like the libyan revolution ws a US plot to intervene, this is HIGHLY illogical

Of course he well ask the UN for help as long as Al-Qazzafi is somehow a crazy man and doesn't matter to what would be the Lybians' people's future and of course USA do this things for get a reward from the Lybian's oil.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-israeli-protest-has-turned-into-a-revolution-1.377529



need help /advice ?

Yaaay Libya !!

Written by Zombie on 22.08.2011 at 05:30

Yaaay Libya !!

Yallah Libya!
What about Egypt, how are things turning?

Written by Candlemass on 22.08.2011 at 15:26

What about Egypt, how are things turning?

Shit =)

Written by Ernis on 20.06.2011 at 23:43

Written by Zombie on 20.06.2011 at 22:12

Isn't every country really like this ?
some people just refuse to acknowledge it

Yes, I believe it is so...

Except for perhaps Bhutan which is a hidden country deep inside the Himalayas where people still live as if in an ancient kingdom. I've heard they still wear their own historical clothing and almost nothing of outside world has reached them. It is understandable why they have very high limits to the number of foreigners allowed to this realm annually.

Or Mongolia which is an uninhabited grassland or desert for the most of its area... as I've heard... the most independent country on earth, Mongolia never depended of something and nothing ever depended on Mongolia...

But now lets speak of places such as Tibet... they say it's loaded with raw materials and natural resources... sure this land needs to be RESCUED fast. Free Tibet and bring democracy there as soon as possible!

Xinjiang autonomous region... oil... This means freedom and democracy is coming to them NOW!

South Africa... diamonds diamonds diamonds... Diamonds attract democracy and human rights too... who cares the blacks are killing the white people there and about the HIV pandemic and the land reform where white farmers are stripped from their lands which annihilates the country's once so efficient agricultural system and the awful ethnic tensions between black and white population and the rapings... kids start raping their schoolmates already at the age of 9... But who cares about people and society anyway... "diamonds are a girl's(replace if you wish) best friends!"

Bhutan didn't even allow TV until a couple of years ago.


Tibet was laregly like Bhutan until the Chinese invaded in 1950. Anyone who's ever seen Seven Years In Tibet would agree wi6h that.

So, what do you guys thing about the NATO operation in Libya ?

As an arab, for the first time i believe that this is not an imperialistic militry operation on an oil-rich country, and i sincerely think that the "west" launched this operation in a humanitarian attempt to stop the genocide, infact, i'm grateful for what the NATO forces accomplished, and i hope this ushers a new era of west-arab relationships based on mutual respect, acceptance, and cooperation and not domination-attempts, and dictatorship support.

Hope the whole world becomes borderless one day

Written by animal on 23.08.2011 at 06:24

Bhutan didn't even allow TV until a couple of years ago.


Tibet was laregly like Bhutan until the Chinese invaded in 1950. Anyone who's ever seen Seven Years In Tibet would agree wi6h that.

Yep... in the countryside in my country we didn't have TV either for many years... And I first got internet at home in 2004... Yep it can make life comfortable but it doesn't necessarily contribute to happiness...

I've seen the Brad Pitt film and it does portray the Chinese in a diabolical manner, in fact, in such a diabolical manner that it leaves a propagandist impression. Tibet actually has very tiny urban area, basically Lhasa and few other towns which are inhabited by Chinese. The vast majority of Tibetans still live in the countryside in the mountains... Haven't been to Tibet but in China it's usually regarded as a poetical and exotic place and it's a popular tourist destination although a rather expensive one...

Written by Zombie on 24.08.2011 at 02:24

Hope the whole world becomes borderless one day

Aha... the Middle-Earth... united under Sauron... nah, please let my Shire be...

Written by Zombie on 24.08.2011 at 02:24

Hope the whole world becomes borderless one day

Maybe it will. Shall we call it The New World Border?

Lol, new world order is about one nation/group/club/etc controlling the whole world ... more of a world-domination plot.

what i had in mind is a one united, accepting, tolerant world working together for the greater good of all mankind, i mean, nations are a man-made invention, i doubt that god ever intended humans to divide themselves and make up "countries" and "borders" and kill eachothers over land.

Written by Zombie on 24.08.2011 at 02:24

So, what do you guys thing about the NATO operation in Libya ?

As an arab, for the first time i believe that this is not an imperialistic militry operation on an oil-rich country, and i sincerely think that the "west" launched this operation in a humanitarian attempt to stop the genocide, infact, i'm grateful for what the NATO forces accomplished, and i hope this ushers a new era of west-arab relationships based on mutual respect, acceptance, and cooperation and not domination-attempts, and dictatorship support.

Hope the whole world becomes borderless one day

I would not jump to that conclusion. I'm (still) grateful for NATO, but according to the Israeli newspaper (ynet) the NATO countries are starting to debate who is gonna be profit from the oil fields in Libya. Like Italy: Italian oil company leads charge back into Libya.

A guy tell me that he prefer the peaceful over the freedom (He meant he with any decision of killing any one who say against the system), I told him that is wrong and the freedom > peaceful etc, etc, .. then he told me that he doesn't want to make the country like Egypt or Tunisia!!

Written by Metal_4Ever on 24.08.2011 at 11:53

A guy tell me that he prefer the peaceful over the freedom (He meant he with any decision of killing any one who say against the system), I told him that is wrong and the freedom > peaceful etc, etc, .. then he told me that he doesn't want to make the country like Egypt or Tunisia!!

Things in Egypt and Tunisia ain't so great now, their ex-regimes -after seeing the massacres in libya, syria, bahrain, and yemen- thought that maybe they gave up power too soon and without much resistance, so they're making a slow come back to power now, and my guessing is that if we do not start another revolution, all will be lost ... and i'm not just talking about demonstrations against SCAF (Supreme Council of Armed Forces), i'm talking about a full-scale revolution bringing down the whole regime and its remnants, and i firmly believe that is why the Egyptian-Israeli tensions is all about now, SCAF know that they're unpopular and that their days are coming to an end, so they're channeling all the public anger towards Israel rather than towards them, the past regime has been doing that for DECADES, and so is the new one.

PS: the Judge that fined mubarak 540 million pounds for cutting down cell-phone networks during the revolution, was suspended from duty today for no reason

also, this is tahrir square today, the symbol of the "white, peaceful revolution"

This is why Arabs sympathize with Palestinians, its not a racist or an anti-semite thing, its strictly humanitarian...



Salute to our Israeli brothers who support a two-state solution.
If you support this, sign here:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/middle_east_peace_now/?r=act

Written by Zombie on 24.08.2011 at 18:51

This is why Arabs sympathize with Palestinians, its not a racist or an anti-semite thing, its strictly humanitarian...

Salute to our Israeli brothers who support a two-state solution.
If you support this, sign here:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/middle_east_peace_now/?r=act

About "Arabs" sympathizing from solely humanitarian interests is an hypothesis I don't think that works. But thanks for the link. I signed.

I'm reading now the history of settlements in Israel from 67'.
Sad but true, 'security' is many times an excuse.
Slavoj Zizek said it also well here, which really influenced me when I've seen it:

Written by Zombie on 24.08.2011 at 18:51

This is why Arabs sympathize with Palestinians, its not a racist or an anti-semite thing, its strictly humanitarian...

Yup, they did take down the Berlin wall but we have some other walls today...

My bro saw an interview with a family who said "Oh yes, the Palestinians do live quite bad there packed into their Gaza sector and other areas. Quite frankly, it's rather awful. In general we are against violence. But with Palestinians it's another case. You see, they are not humans. Therefore it's quite understandable what's happening..."

Yes Zombie, I believe you are not anti-sem... neither am I ... (and being quite frank, Bar Refaeli is pretty) which means I sincerely hope the country were speaking of is going to be a peaceful and beautiful place as it's supposed to be.

I really love how international this forum is. I studied the conflicts in the Middle-East during my time at college, and by no means do I have any first hand experience. ... Consider that a bit of a disclaimer...

I suppose the only things I could say is that I am only 'for' Western intervention when there's a humanitarian risk involved. Such as with the example Zombie mentioned with NATO and Libya. I know that here in the United States people that I know personally were aghast when President Obama didn't send in ground forces right at the get go. Even some politicians on this side of the puddle denounced Obama's judgement.

As it was, Obama's stance with Libya was to simply assist NATO with the bombing operations. The United States did initiate the operation, but when NATO came to assist, the United States did as said and backed down militarily, and stepped up assistance in other areas, which I believe was the best way to go about it.

As for anything else... I am a little behind on the details with other facts, such as with Israel and the Palestinians... Though, I do know enough to say that a two state solution would be for the best. Yet, Candlemass was good enough to provide that video (which I did not watch 'all' the way through, apologies!) but security is a major deciding factor when attempting to establish borders.

And, given the current climate in the Middle East... Any sort of motions towards a two-state solution may be deterred even longer, unfortunately.

Anything else I will have to research on, though I am really interested in this topic, and I'm willing to learn and give input (when I can).

A little late, but this is an informative video: