Written by [user id=130727] on 10.09.2012 at 12:34

At Spirit Molecule actually I want all of the to beat the shit out of the shit going on here,I'm sure you know what I'm talking about

the sad truth is, that US army could only bring more shit to your country...even with the purest intentions...its not that i would be strictly against military involvement for better future, but i really cant imagine how exactly it would work in Iran...more likely you will find yourself in the middle of bloody civil war soon, i am afraid...

Written by Ellrohir on 10.09.2012 at 13:42

Written by [user id=130727] on 10.09.2012 at 12:34

At Spirit Molecule actually I want all of the to beat the shit out of the shit going on here,I'm sure you know what I'm talking about

the sad truth is, that US army could only bring more shit to your country...even with the purest intentions...its not that i would be strictly against military involvement for better future, but i really cant imagine how exactly it would work in Iran...more likely you will find yourself in the middle of bloody civil war soon, i am afraid...

you're so true about the blood civil war,I believe even US don't interfere that would happen in any case,cause of the shitty religious stuffs always victimize the peace here.yes it's true the religion an ignorance is the biggest problem with ppl here,however we can see that turkey has a big population of Muslims and Christians and they all live in peace together because their government is secular and their organization is so different from the savagery of middle eastern stuffs

Written by Bad English on 09.09.2012 at 21:33

Midle east is not ready to democracy if they would be arabic and muslims in Europe and USA wont wear burka and those religuse stuffs ... no metter what politricans will rule freedom there willö be when ppl will listen metal, drink alcohol have groop sex and porno be bigger business how smoke a hasish
Its like in Europe remeber 50's and early when church rules, we fight for itand we won , even still its not a freedom ,
Mid east problem is religion , then follows politics

I have the same opnion that ppl themselves are not ready to democracy and it's really something beyond their organizations they can't understand such thing in their life.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, the big shit storm down the road is this November. If the Repulicans get in, which i hope they do, as another 4 years of Obama would bankrupt an dodge the main issue of US solvency, Israel will have the US backing it's nuclear assault of Iran all but guaranteed in 2013. So oil prices will hit 200 dollars a barrel at least, even if Saudi Arabia (which has already given Israel its blessing by allowing it's daily oil production to rise to record levels to compensate for Iranian oil been taken off the market an sold at a loss to India an China) pumps even more oil, the EU is doomed, the world falls into a world wide trade war/currency war an we get a 1970's style stagflationary era, a bursting gold bubble, negative world GDP, interesting times next year.

Written by [user id=1843] on 10.09.2012 at 14:35

Not sure if this has been mentioned, the big shit storm down the road is this November. If the Repulicans get in, which i hope they do, as another 4 years of Obama would bankrupt an dodge the main issue of US solvency, Israel will have the US backing it's nuclear assault of Iran all but guaranteed in 2013. So oil prices will hit 200 dollars a barrel at least, even if Saudi Arabia (which has already given Israel its blessing by allowing it's daily oil production to rise to record levels to compensate for Iranian oil been taken off the market an sold at a loss to India an China) pumps even more oil, the EU is doomed, the world falls into a world wide trade war/currency war an we get a 1970's style stagflationary era, a bursting gold bubble, negative world GDP, interesting times next year.

yeah I've read a lot about all these coincidences,
and some say all these debates Are all because to keep Iran in daily news, which Israelis take advantage of it

Written by [user id=130727] on 10.09.2012 at 15:12

yeah I've read a lot about all these coincidences,
and some say all these debates Are all because to keep Iran in daily news, which Israelis take advantage of it

I wouldn't right that off neither, Israel is a paranoid state, with rich an powerful allies, in the media an out, some would say a justifiedly paranoid state as it's basically an internationally (/ heavily US) sanctioned region that annexed one group of people with beliefs contrary to Judaism. Technically most people in Israel are ex-pats who relocated there mainly from the USSR after that era of anti-Judaism murder during ww2, an Judaism is a old religion, there have been many such incidents like ww2 on a lesser scale, Jews felt its very survival was at stake and moved to create a state that wouldn't turn against it. Now, a tiny area of people, with a history of been massacred, is sitting surrounded by nations such as Egypt, that have a growing Muslim brotherhood following, has issues internally with a growing uber-Jewry extreme right that refuses to work or join the military, very right wing government, with a war in Syria on it border, Ali Khamenei constantly talking of 'the destruction of Israel' while building nuclear weapons (facilities spotted an photographed via satellite, an estimated by external UN experts to be near complete despite sanctions within two years) an supplying arms an money to Hezbollah on Israels north border.

Yea, everythings propaganda, for one side/thing or the next, an alot, too much, pointing to war. An everything else that that brings considering Israels record, Gaza 2010 for example. Next year should be interesting, even if Obama is elected, as his stated, 'all options are on the table'.

Written by [user id=130727] on 10.09.2012 at 14:13

turkey has a big population of Muslims and Christians and they all live in peace together because their government is secular and their organization is so different from the savagery of middle eastern stuffs

but it was thanks to kinda tyrant rule of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk...all elements of democracy were implemented through state might and forced with power...yea it worked in the end...but is your country and your people ready for something like that? and is there someone like him?

and even if yes, there still will be countries near you, who will do everything to stop such tendencies and break any newborn democracy...especially Saudi Arabia - the ultimate source of oil for western countries, but also the ultimate source of money for terrorists...

Written by Ellrohir on 10.09.2012 at 16:15

Written by [user id=130727] on 10.09.2012 at 14:13

turkey has a big population of Muslims and Christians and they all live in peace together because their government is secular and their organization is so different from the savagery of middle eastern stuffs

but it was thanks to kinda tyrant rule of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk...all elements of democracy were implemented through state might and forced with power...yea it worked in the end...but is your country and your people ready for something like that? and is there someone like him?

and even if yes, there still will be countries near you, who will do everything to stop such tendencies and break any newborn democracy...especially Saudi Arabia - the ultimate source of oil for western countries, but also the ultimate source of money for terrorists...

not at all, they Are not ready, majority Are so attached to their beliefs.

Quote:
I have the same opnion that ppl themselves are not ready to democracy and it's really something beyond their organizations they can't understand such thing in their life.

Offending 300,000,000 people in one sentence ... way to go.

Written by InnerSelf on 11.09.2012 at 18:42

Quote:
I have the same opnion that ppl themselves are not ready to democracy and it's really something beyond their organizations they can't understand such thing in their life.

Offending 300,000,000 people in one sentence ... way to go.

no you have misinterpreted it,and It's not about Syria of course, and anyhow look at the violence and ignorance going on in that reign all the conflicts in the name of different things between different groups of ppl and politicians go on. Are they really ready ? to accept the same leadership as Ataturk and a big change? Many still there suffers from sticking to the same patterns which they torture them

You are saying that the people in the middle east and north Africa (Arab people) are not ready for democracy. let's say this is true, do you think dictatorships create a good environment for such a change ? My answer is : No.
You can't simply erase 40 years of oppression in this short period of time, it's going to be a long process.

Written by InnerSelf on 12.09.2012 at 13:12

You are saying that the people in the middle east and north Africa (Arab people) are not ready for democracy. let's say this is true, do you think dictatorships create a good environment for such a change ? My answer is : No.
You can't simply erase 40 years of oppression in this short period of time, it's going to be a long process.

nothing would ever change if people don't change themselves and stand against the ignorance

A mob in Libya attacked US embassy in Benghazi and killed the ambassador + 3 securities...because someone in USA did a movie to mock Muhammad...so...great that the dictator has fallen, now there is true democracy...

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 16:46

A mob in Libya attacked US embassy in Benghazi and killed the ambassador + 3 securities...because someone in USA did a movie to mock Muhammad...so...great that the dictator has fallen, now there is true democracy...

Militias fired missiles at the embassy. So it wasn't really a mob attacking it.

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 16:46

A mob in Libya attacked US embassy in Benghazi and killed the ambassador + 3 securities...because someone in USA did a movie to mock Muhammad...so...great that the dictator has fallen, now there is true democracy...

That is what I mean that people should change themselves

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.09.2012 at 16:53

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 16:46

A mob in Libya attacked US embassy in Benghazi and killed the ambassador + 3 securities...because someone in USA did a movie to mock Muhammad...so...great that the dictator has fallen, now there is true democracy...

Militias fired missiles at the embassy. So it wasn't really a mob attacking it.

ok, i am sorry, i read the article badly...in Libya it were some wanna-be soldiers...the civil mob was in Cairo, and they "only" tear down the US embassy flag and burn it...but well...

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 17:39


ok, i am sorry, i read the article badly...in Libya it were some wanna-be soldiers...the civil mob was in Cairo, and they "only" tear down the US embassy flag and burn it...but well...

who cares if flags are torn down and burned? It's just a flag

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.09.2012 at 17:43
who cares if flags are torn down and burned? It's just a flag

I still laugh then I remember some dudes burning the danish flag because of the muhammad drawning...
Acording to danish traditions: The only way to get rid of a danish flag without offending it.... It's to burn it!

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.09.2012 at 17:43

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 17:39


ok, i am sorry, i read the article badly...in Libya it were some wanna-be soldiers...the civil mob was in Cairo, and they "only" tear down the US embassy flag and burn it...but well...

who cares if flags are torn down and burned? It's just a flag

maybe...only that "just a flag" waved on a private property (not talking about fact, that embassy ground is considered as a foreign state territory), while bunch of angry Muslims climbed over the wall to destroy it and replaced it with their own "flag" supporting Allah and Muhammad...

and tbh i dont think it really matters what have or havent been destroyed, but the important thing is the fact, that there can be a thousand-headed mob willing to destroy (and maybe even kill) because of a movie that has been shot on the second side of the world...those people want democracy? their "democracy" means "we want to do what we do, but be damned if you want to do something different than we approve"...pity for all "normal" people living there :/

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 18:26

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.09.2012 at 17:43

Written by Ellrohir on 12.09.2012 at 17:39

those people want democracy? their "democracy" means "we want to do what we do, but be damned if you want to do something different than we approve"...pity for all "normal" people living there :/

I doubt that a large sector of society wants democracy. Islamists (or some of them should I say) prefer instauring the Sharia, which is in my opinion of course, incompatible with the democratic principles, and now that that no tyrannical dictator is going to oppress them, they find it's a good moment to come out their caves.

I feel sorry for them. They had a problem and now have a bigger one. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.

Written by Vombatus on 12.09.2012 at 19:08

now that that no tyrannical dictator is going to oppress them, they find it's a good moment to come out their caves.

exactly...the sad thing is, that the tyrannical dictators fell in the name of democracy...but it is not going to happen most likely...

Just because their cause for protesting is of a religious nature makes them an angry mob. I heard somewhere that democracy gives people the right to express their anger through peaceful protests no matter what the cause is, or am I mistaken ?
The militia that attacked the US embassy attacked it on 9/11/2012 and just after a couple of days from the assassination of some Libyan Al-Qaeda leader.So those armed religious fanatics are the reason for this tragedy not the angry Muslim masses.

Written by InnerSelf on 12.09.2012 at 20:46

Just because their cause for protesting is of a religious nature makes them an angry mob. I heard somewhere that democracy gives people the right to express their anger through peaceful protests no matter what the cause is, or am I mistaken ?
The militia that attacked the US embassy attacked it on 9/11/2012 and just after a couple of days from the assassination of some Libyan Al-Qaeda leader.So those armed religious fanatics are the reason for this tragedy not the angry Muslim masses.

Yes, you are mistaken. Killing people, breaking into places and riots isn't simply simply "protesting" and for sure isn't "peaceful protesting".
I personally mocked the God of the Jews (Jehovah) a few weeks ago, we have Facebook page named after him that got published in Israeli newspapers, I didn't (even) receive death threats.
Other Westerners do the same to Jesus - no one is thinking of acting so barbarically. Not breaking into embassies, not rioting and for sure not killing for who ever did that.
The Irony of it all, is that it "proves" the point of the film, doesn't acts like those do?
And over what? a 14 minute bad produced film that would not get any headlines without the "protesting". And what are you so angry about? Never heard of the block button in youtube? Comments section? Make another video rebutting the other one? Get a grip on yourself, there is no place here for apologetics.

I don't know what is it about you that gets you so offensive whenever you're having a discussion here (at least the ones I had with you and some of the stuff I read) ! Muslims have the right to protest showing their discontent with something they feel is offending to them, and idiots who go around breaking into embassies and doing shit should be persecuted.
Concerning my opinion of the movie, I found it to be bad, stupid and unintelligent and not worthy of such a reaction concerning how much more offensive stuff to Islam there is over the internet, that being said I still fully endorse Muslims' right to protest their cause as it's a part of the freedom of speech that comes with democracy.

Mmm Candlemass' post is totally inoffensive.

Written by InnerSelf on 14.09.2012 at 01:39

I don't know what is it about you that gets you so offensive whenever you're having a discussion here (at least the ones I had with you and some of the stuff I read) ! Muslims have the right to protest showing their discontent with something they feel is offending to them, and idiots who go around breaking into embassies and doing shit should be persecuted.
Concerning my opinion of the movie, I found it to be bad, stupid and unintelligent and not worthy of such a reaction concerning how much more offensive stuff to Islam there is over the internet, that being said I still fully endorse Muslims' right to protest their cause as it's a part of the freedom of speech that comes with democracy.

Or you take it as offensively for no principled reason. Mutual grounds for respect isn't the relationship Muslims or the religious tend to offer. Antisemitism is widely accepted in Arab cultures and no one is going to censor the bible or Quran for offensive staff there against women, gays, none-believers or people who believe in many gods (polytheists).
I try and articulate myself to cause the less cognitive dissonance, not offense. If I see wrong things I wrote, I'm happy to apologize

Yeah, they have a right to protest, but it's pointless to a degree. No one is going to shut up any one else unless it is a threat or an attempt to harm him. If you would base your grounds that it may harm Muslims as a minority group in some way, I would better empathize.
In a democracy if you are not offended at least once a day, you probably have a mental disorder. I'm not saying this in a offending way, but some medical serious way.
I get offended all the time by religious or conservatives who want the gays out of the public sphere - and there opinions get published in newspapers. To a certain degree, a man must be offended in a properly functioning democracy.

You are circling around the point, many comments has been written here by you and other users dissing the whole concept of people protesting against the movie, somehow you turned the discussion into whether these protests will get them any results !
And again, please stop bringing the women issue into every discussion about Islam, I have stated countless times before that women's right are mostly cherished in Islam, it is the close minded old fashioned mentality of some Arabs that offends women.

Reading your first comment again, I might have taken it in an offensive way while it wasn't .

Written by InnerSelf on 14.09.2012 at 16:54

You are circling around the point, many comments has been written here by you and other users dissing the whole concept of people protesting against the movie, somehow you turned the discussion into whether these protests will get them any results !
And again, please stop bringing the women issue into every discussion about Islam, I have stated countless times before that women's right are mostly cherished in Islam, it is the close minded old fashioned mentality of some Arabs that offends women.

Cherished as what, is the question...for a different discussion, in a different thread.
I think it was clear that women in the Quran (or the Bible) were not my point, but the demands for respect on the grounds of "mutual respect", in principle was. To be consistent at least they could say "I'll shut you up because I value Islam more than your freedom of speech". That would be coherent in my opinion. And that's instead of using "mutual respect" as grounds because then you have to censor holy books, clerics, etc and that's not what they want.
I've added a comment about results. Well, results? Heard there has been some looting going around. Islam got an even badder rep then what it already has in Western countries. And probably the real wanted result, maybe next time someone will be afraid to express himself. Deterrence.

I think what heated you up a little was the word "barbaric". I'll try and avoid loaded language as much as I can in order to express myself.

Written by Candlemass on 14.09.2012 at 17:16

"I'll shut you up because I value Islam more than your freedom of speech"

THAT pretty much sums up many current conflicts between "East" and "West"...i am afraid we cant really talk about tolerance, when the other side isnt willing to tolerate us...

i dont really value this american for creating offensive movie...but this is freedom of expression - you must accept also things you dont like...you are very free step out and say "well, i think this guy is an idiot", but use violence trying to punish him (and whats more - the whole country and all the people) is totally unacceptable...accept this and then we can move on towards democracy and towards respecting your culture