there is no such thing as a right to life. i understand late term abortions being wrong, but abortions as a whole are, for me at least, sometimes necessary.

Personally, I think abortion is bad. You don't want the baby?, you can't have the baby? Ok, you can give it away, there are many coulpes who want a child. The only reason in which I would support it is if there is a high risk for the mom to die.

Written by juliocb on 09.10.2008 at 01:42

Personally, I think abortion is bad. You don't want the baby?, you can't have the baby? Ok, you can give it away, there are many coulpes who want a child. The only reason in which I would support it is if there is a high risk for the mom to die.

...i totally agree with u...there's alot of couples that can have a baby for several reasons, most of them have tried for years and with alot of methods...giving it in adoption is the best choice, ok u dont want the baby and wont raise it but someone out there really wishes a child...having an abortion is a huge thing, it's still killing...i don't know but i don't think i could abort my baby...


@LeChron James: ...like when do u think an abortion is necessary??

Written by LeChron James on 09.10.2008 at 00:02

there is no such thing as a right to life. i understand late term abortions being wrong, but abortions as a whole are, for me at least, sometimes necessary.

yeah, that righ-to-life is pro-life's most ridiculous reason because in that case even employing every birth control method would be a violation of that assumed-right. furthermore, if a fetus is a human, then why don't we celebrate our birthdays 9 months earlier?

Written by nana.MD on 09.10.2008 at 05:26

Written by juliocb on 09.10.2008 at 01:42

Personally, I think abortion is bad. You don't want the baby?, you can't have the baby? Ok, you can give it away, there are many coulpes who want a child. The only reason in which I would support it is if there is a high risk for the mom to die.

...i totally agree with u...there's alot of couples that can have a baby for several reasons, most of them have tried for years and with alot of methods...giving it in adoption is the best choice, ok u dont want the baby and wont raise it but someone out there really wishes a child...having an abortion is a huge thing, it's still killing...i don't know but i don't think i could abort my baby...

Then why are the orphanages full?

Written by AiwiAstwihad on 09.10.2008 at 15:41

Written by LeChron James on 09.10.2008 at 00:02

there is no such thing as a right to life. i understand late term abortions being wrong, but abortions as a whole are, for me at least, sometimes necessary.

yeah, that righ-to-life is pro-life's most ridiculous reason because in that case even employing every birth control method would be a violation of that assumed-right. furthermore, if a fetus is a human, then why don't we celebrate our birthdays 9 months earlier?

yeah, theres no right to life. thats why handguns, missiles, chemical/biological/nuclear weapons and fully automatic weapons were invented. and i WISH i could have my birthday 9 months earlier. life would be much more interesting hahaha.

Written by Lucas on 09.10.2008 at 16:57

Written by nana.MD on 09.10.2008 at 05:26

Written by juliocb on 09.10.2008 at 01:42

Personally, I think abortion is bad. You don't want the baby?, you can't have the baby? Ok, you can give it away, there are many coulpes who want a child. The only reason in which I would support it is if there is a high risk for the mom to die.

...i totally agree with u...there's alot of couples that can have a baby for several reasons, most of them have tried for years and with alot of methods...giving it in adoption is the best choice, ok u dont want the baby and wont raise it but someone out there really wishes a child...having an abortion is a huge thing, it's still killing...i don't know but i don't think i could abort my baby...

Then why are the orphanages full?

...there's a lot of ppl that have sex without protection repeatedly...i know this whole pregnancy thing is about responsability but it's a hard subject to talk about...

^You're saying no one GRANTS life, which is crap -- a small amount of people don't, sure, but as a whole, many people still grant it and everyone has a right to it.

Aaaand I think abortion is stupid. If you were cool enough to get pregnant, now you can be cool and raise your kids.

Hahaha, I didn't tell anyone what to do, I gave my opinion. The only way you'd get pregnant in the situation of needing abortion is screwing around with someone you shouldn't have been with, don't take some easy way out, that's utter crap.

My only qualm is if you get raped or something and fall pregnant.

Written by LeChron James on 10.10.2008 at 05:09

Written by AiwiAstwihad on 09.10.2008 at 15:41

Written by LeChron James on 09.10.2008 at 00:02

there is no such thing as a right to life. i understand late term abortions being wrong, but abortions as a whole are, for me at least, sometimes necessary.

yeah, that righ-to-life is pro-life's most ridiculous reason because in that case even employing every birth control method would be a violation of that assumed-right. furthermore, if a fetus is a human, then why don't we celebrate our birthdays 9 months earlier?

yeah, theres no right to life. thats why handguns, missiles, chemical/biological/nuclear weapons and fully automatic weapons were invented. and i WISH i could have my birthday 9 months earlier. life would be much more interesting hahaha.

well...there's another right in practice called "right to be an asshole" which is used to the extreme in those cases.

Written by [user id=23805] on 11.10.2008 at 03:12

...that's the problem: people telling other people what to do. Totally uncool.

That would be an Utopia. when there are cops analyzing your hair style/hair length to see if it's ok with Islam, and also your clothing, the color/the size/the sleeves,...likewise search your homes for Satelite dishes or alcoholic beverage, furthermore government censors know what's the ultimate good...plus...many more other rules for all to obey, indeed they can decide for all citizens whether abortion is right or wrong: it's totally illegal according to Islam except in very very rare cases. from doctors performing it to women having it illegally, will be punished...

Written by [user id=23805] on 13.10.2008 at 12:41

Written by AiwiAstwihad on 13.10.2008 at 11:52

Written by [user id=23805] on 11.10.2008 at 03:12

...that's the problem: people telling other people what to do. Totally uncool.

That would be an Utopia. when there are cops analyzing your hair style/hair length to see if it's ok with Islam, and also your clothing, the color/the size/the sleeves,...likewise search your homes for Satelite dishes or alcoholic beverage, furthermore government censors know what's the ultimate good...plus...many more other rules for all to obey, indeed they can decide for all citizens whether abortion is right or wrong: it's totally illegal according to Islam except in very very rare cases. from doctors performing it to women having it illegally, will be punished...

What a weight. That shit would drive me crazy. I can't stand when people say "Good morning" to me, much less make direct demands.

hahaha...then "good midnight", it's 13:30 here so i guess it must be midnight in US...
and 'bout the weight, that's why i'm already crazy and totally out of my fuckin mind. lol

I am not one to debate abortion, as it is hard to debate an issue so heart felt on both sides. I would like to point out a position held by our current presidential nominee Barack Obama. He twice voted against the Born infant protection act. During a late term abortion sometimes the child actually survives. the attempt is botched. At this point the nurses take the child which is now breathing and outside the mother and either disposses of it or lets it lie to die in the laundry room. This is documented and proven. Barack Obama twice voted against an act that would have given the survived child protection under the law. The nurses would watch the baby die, sometimes in a few minutes or sometimes up to 8 hours with their new born lungs gasping for air.

This my friends turns my stomach to no end. i would like your opinion on this!

Ok, I have an idea. Let's make abortion illegal again. Then it can go back to the underground medical school drop-out abortion doctors who desperately need the money...
The best solution I have heard is: Upon reaching sexual maturity, boys will be required by law to begin a process of preserving their semen for future use. After enough has been collected, there will be a government-enforced vasectomy. Now when the boy becomes a man and gets a wife and they want to have a child, they can fill out all the appropriate consent forms and get background checks to receive his seed. This way there will be no more unwanted pregnancies...

And all these men who support Anti-Choice politics can see how it feels to have the government control your body...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.10.2008 at 23:50

Written by [user id=30512] on 08.10.2008 at 22:32

Why would they fuck each other anyway?!? I understand that some guys just can't keep their dick in their jeans...

Why would someone fuck? mmm, lemme think... for fun, cause it is nice. For me and many people that is either the main or only reason to fuck.
And there's such a thing as contraceptives.

so...?
Contraceptives or not, it is not a bad thing to be careful, there are many things to destroy, which shouldn't be destroyed. A kids live for example. One mistake often is enough for a woman to get pregnant. Better be married before having sex anyway.

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:10

so...?
Contraceptives or not, it is not a bad thing to be careful, there are many things to destroy, which shouldn't be destroyed. A kids live for example. One mistake often is enough for a woman to get pregnant. Better be married before having sex anyway.

I hope that you're not describing that which gets aborted as a "kid".

Written by Hyvaarin on 17.10.2008 at 17:14

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:10

so...?
Contraceptives or not, it is not a bad thing to be careful, there are many things to destroy, which shouldn't be destroyed. A kids live for example. One mistake often is enough for a woman to get pregnant. Better be married before having sex anyway.

I hope that you're not describing that which gets aborted as a "kid".

ehh? How else would you describe it? I can't find another name that tells the truth.

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:10

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.10.2008 at 23:50

Written by [user id=30512] on 08.10.2008 at 22:32

Why would they fuck each other anyway?!? I understand that some guys just can't keep their dick in their jeans...

Why would someone fuck? mmm, lemme think... for fun, cause it is nice. For me and many people that is either the main or only reason to fuck.
And there's such a thing as contraceptives.

...Better be married before having sex anyway.

Why?

Crap, according to that reasoning I would never ever in my life have sex.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.10.2008 at 18:38

Crap, according to that reasoning I would never ever in my life have sex.

hahahhah, half the forum too

you can't control this sex drive, people like to think they can but in today's world where there's sex everywhere in the media and movies like american pie which stigmatize virgins as "losers", what can you do?

and besides, i also agree with Marcel

Written by Valentin B on 19.10.2008 at 09:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.10.2008 at 18:38

Crap, according to that reasoning I would never ever in my life have sex.

and besides, i also agree with Marcel

Thirded. I won't judge people who wait the marriage to have sex but if I am very in love with my girlfriend and she is too, I can't see why we should not have it.

Written by Elio on 19.10.2008 at 12:11

Written by Valentin B on 19.10.2008 at 09:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.10.2008 at 18:38

Crap, according to that reasoning I would never ever in my life have sex.

and besides, i also agree with Marcel

Thirded. I won't judge people who wait the marriage to have sex but if I am very in love with my girlfriend and she is too, I can't see why we should not have it.

A little more off-topicness... I am talking about sex in general. So even if the people aren't in love. I don't see a problem with two people having sex with each other just because they like sex and are hot for each other at that point in time. So not in love with each other. Sex can be had because of love but also because two people just like t so damn much. Compare it to eating and drinking because one likes it and not because one needs to.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.10.2008 at 12:52

Written by Elio on 19.10.2008 at 12:11

Written by Valentin B on 19.10.2008 at 09:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 17.10.2008 at 18:38

Crap, according to that reasoning I would never ever in my life have sex.

and besides, i also agree with Marcel

Thirded. I won't judge people who wait the marriage to have sex but if I am very in love with my girlfriend and she is too, I can't see why we should not have it.

A little more off-topicness... I am talking about sex in general. So even if the people aren't in love. I don't see a problem with two people having sex with each other just because they like sex and are hot for each other at that point in time. So not in love with each other. Sex can be had because of love but also because two people just like t so damn much. Compare it to eating and drinking because one likes it and not because one needs to.

I know what you meant, I just added my contribution based on my personal experience...I don't find wrong people who are not in love and have sex, but since I have it with my girlfriend I made my example. Ok, off-topic conversation locked.

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:25

Written by Hyvaarin on 17.10.2008 at 17:14

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:10

so...?
Contraceptives or not, it is not a bad thing to be careful, there are many things to destroy, which shouldn't be destroyed. A kids live for example. One mistake often is enough for a woman to get pregnant. Better be married before having sex anyway.

I hope that you're not describing that which gets aborted as a "kid".

ehh? How else would you describe it? I can't find another name that tells the truth.

Zygote, embryo, etc.

Yesterday, there was a "life parade" in Paris, a christian march against euthanasy and abortion, what made me think about it, for lots of friends were going there.

Please, don't consider my opinion as a representant of the christian opinion about the subject, my thoughs are quite unorthodox (hahaha...) for my church, but still
I'm quite shocked when men dare condamning women who have aborted, they just can't imagine what female sexuality is (ok, neither do I, but still, I'm a menstruated girl, so I know a little part of it), female sexuality is very brodly ignored by men (no, it's not off topic, you'll see), the painfull thing is happening INSIDE, it's a hidden thing, you can't see it, you can't have a direct contact to it (to be rude, you don't have it in your hand everytime you want to piss) but still, it's imposing itself VERY PAINFULLY: some woman just can't stand the pain of menstruation, it's as your inside were torn out, it's horrible, some faint because of it. Pregancy is even more stikening, imagine: you have something living inside you, some strange body (ok, it's your child, but it's not you) moving in your uterus.

Of course, having a baby is something VERY serious, you have to take your responsabilities when you fuck, if silly girls get pregnant because they "forgot" the pill, or the condom, it's their fault, they can't be excused. BUT if it's a rape, and rape can happen inside a couple, so when the woman is forced, can you just imagine what it is to suffer 9 monthes from the crime of the rapist, to feel the fruite of the crime inside you, to feel it feed from your flesh, that horrible thing that was imposed to you?
I supposed it is really unbearable and I know that if I had to be raped and pregant, I would abort IMMEDIATELY!

And what if the baby has a physical or mental problem? To educate those kids, you have to be very courageous for any parents wishe to be proud of their child, and you'll have to live with a stupid or horrible creature for the rest of your life, or only knowing you have born a """monster""". I'm really sorry if it shocks you, I'm quite rude, but I can imagine those experiences are terrible. You can't oblige a mother to bear the fruit of a rape or something that's unable to live or will be retarded all his life.

Of course, there is the problem of eugenism, of murdering etc... but please, first don't blame the woman, it's very easy to moralize when everything is beatiful and confortable in your life.

Then, for the "murder", well, I won't blame a woman who kills her rapist, so killing the rape-fruit is no problem for me!
Of course, there is the religious problem, for life is a gift of God, etc... that's difficult, but in any case, killing a embryo is no worse than killing an enemy at war or by death penalty, and the judge or soldier are not morally blamed. Of course, the embryo is innocent, but so he will go to paradize and everything is fine ^^ (sorry for this very bad taste...)

Dagorwen I couldn't agree with you more...

Written by Hyvaarin on 19.10.2008 at 18:49

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:25

Written by Hyvaarin on 17.10.2008 at 17:14

Written by [user id=30512] on 17.10.2008 at 17:10

so...?
Contraceptives or not, it is not a bad thing to be careful, there are many things to destroy, which shouldn't be destroyed. A kids live for example. One mistake often is enough for a woman to get pregnant. Better be married before having sex anyway.

I hope that you're not describing that which gets aborted as a "kid".

ehh? How else would you describe it? I can't find another name that tells the truth.

Zygote, embryo, etc.

zygote or embryo means kid in it's early state...

Written by akatana on 19.10.2008 at 21:10

Written by Dagorwen on 19.10.2008 at 19:22

Yesterday, there was a "life parade" in Paris, a christian march against euthanasy and abortion, what made me think about it, for lots of friends were going there.

Please, don't consider my opinion as a representant of the christian opinion about the subject, my thoughs are quite unorthodox (hahaha...) for my church, but still
I'm quite shocked when men dare condamning women who have aborted, they just can't imagine what female sexuality is (ok, neither do I, but still, I'm a menstruated girl, so I know a little part of it), female sexuality is very brodly ignored by men (no, it's not off topic, you'll see), the painfull thing is happening INSIDE, it's a hidden thing, you can't see it, you can't have a direct contact to it (to be rude, you don't have it in your hand everytime you want to piss) but still, it's imposing itself VERY PAINFULLY: some woman just can't stand the pain of menstruation, it's as your inside were torn out, it's horrible, some faint because of it. Pregancy is even more stikening, imagine: you have something living inside you, some strange body (ok, it's your child, but it's not you) moving in your uterus.

Of course, having a baby is something VERY serious, you have to take your responsabilities when you fuck, if silly girls get pregnant because they "forgot" the pill, or the condom, it's their fault, they can't be excused. BUT if it's a rape, and rape can happen inside a couple, so when the woman is forced, can you just imagine what it is to suffer 9 monthes from the crime of the rapist, to feel the fruite of the crime inside you, to feel it feed from your flesh, that horrible thing that was imposed to you?
I supposed it is really unbearable and I know that if I had to be raped and pregant, I would abort IMMEDIATELY!

And what if the baby has a physical or mental problem? To educate those kids, you have to be very courageous for any parents wishe to be proud of their child, and you'll have to live with a stupid or horrible creature for the rest of your life, or only knowing you have born a """monster""". I'm really sorry if it shocks you, I'm quite rude, but I can imagine those experiences are terrible. You can't oblige a mother to bear the fruit of a rape or something that's unable to live or will be retarded all his life.

Of course, there is the problem of eugenism, of murdering etc... but please, first don't blame the woman, it's very easy to moralize when everything is beatiful and confortable in your life.

Then, for the "murder", well, I won't blame a woman who kills her rapist, so killing the rape-fruit is no problem for me!
Of course, there is the religious problem, for life is a gift of God, etc... that's difficult, but in any case, killing a embryo is no worse than killing an enemy at war or by death penalty, and the judge or soldier are not morally blamed. Of course, the embryo is innocent, but so he will go to paradize and everything is fine ^^ (sorry for this very bad taste...)

I agree on most things you say. And I have another comment, most of the abortions are actually natural. For religious people this would mean that god is the greatest abortionist. I don't hear them blaming god for killing a baby. But perhaps the most important thing is that until a certain time the embryo has no mental activity, it is just a mass of cells dividing. So it's not a baby, it's not a living thing yet. And to all who might say that this lump of cells could be a baby, to those I say, so this means that every time you masturbate you kill a couple million possible babies? That is ridiculous. It is the same as saying that a girl kills a baby every month just because she failed to get impregnated.

Let's be reasonable about this. The biggest problem is lack of sexual education. Everybody would love to see the number of abortions reduce to a minimum. But the religious fanatics are not helping this cause by clinging to the notion of teens not having sex. Teens will always have sex, the idea is for them to be educated about what the issues are and to know how to have safe sex.

A child has it's own blood circulation. This is something a friend of me (a medical doctor) told me today. I've never thought about this. When there is no bloodcirculation there is no child. When there is no insemination there will never be a bloodcirculation at all. So, it is not rational to even considder masturbation abortion. As we all know, life is in the blood, so from the moment a baby has it's own bloodcirculation it is a child. This in contrast to a tumour, that has no bloodcirculation and is indeed a lump of cells. That is what should be aductated, but won't be educated, because who cares?

Kids in our schools are being raised as fools that cannot do what is good to themselves nor others. I know who those are that want sex to early. Mostly the boys and young men. I've seen in in my neighbourhood, where teenage boys, friends of mine pressurize girls (with whom they have a relationship) to have sex with them and then they go away, leaving the girl alone. And they don't know better, because they have learned on school and from their parents that the highest thing in their lives is their own life. And they don't care about others. You'd wish it wasn't true, that I was lying, but it is the way it goes today.

When somebody gets pregnant one is always responsible, the boy/ man. A man cannot make somebody pregnant against his will. Most of the time to people are involved, one bears the consequence. Can I understand a woman that stands alone and don't want to be pregnant that is pregnant to abort the child (yes, I've read what you said Dagorwen). Absolutely. But now we are talking about the worst situation possible. One man, or a man and woman together just can't control their lust (I have lust too, I know what it is) and none of them takes responsibility. While a child in itself is a bringer of both grief and happiness. A child should be loved and cherished, not killed.

Responsibility is the question, but not blame. As you see, Taka, we both see the solution in the same direction. But you want to learn children how to get not pregnant. I can tel you, Taka, children know that. You don't have to learn them that. I am afraid that today we need to learn children to care about others and to take responsibilty for their actions, because parents don't learn that anymore (don't blame me, there are many examples of the opposite). We all are responsible for our actions. Sometimes I don't like it, but it is true and we must live with it, not kill with it.

Jesus H. Christ I have seen a lot of bullshit in this thread especially by the christian fanatics. My fucking bleeding God are you really THAT brainwashed?

^ I agree. If a woman wants to have an abortion for whatever reason f#$% off and let her do it because it's a choice that will impact her life, not yours.

A common reason could be that the girl is only a teenager, and a baby would completely destroy her life. Not only would the child harm the mother, the father, and related peoples lives, but the baby would also be born into a pretty messed up life which a child shouldn't have to deal with. What's the point of having the child if this awaits?

Further more, the world is getting overpopulated and our non-renewable resources are running out. If abortion can in any small way help counter these problems why shouldn't we let woman do it? Especically if some woman don't want to give birth anyways.

Also, a commonly known fact is that an embryo does not yet have the ability to feel, and knowing this it is doubtful that it can think. If it cannot feel, and it cannot think, how is that life? This stage is comparable to the seed of a plant; it can under the right conditions become life, but it isn't, so all you religious nuts get your facts straight. EMBRYO IS NOT LIFE, this is not an opinion, this is fact, if you think an embryo is life you might as well think a stone is life because neither can think or feel.

Yet another point, stem cell research. The embryo which could potentially cause harm and damage things around it (as listed in the above paragraphs) could instead be used to help research and one day save lives; I think that's a better choice then it being born to a mother that doesn't want it. If you don't think so too, i'm not sure what to think of your perceptions.

Written by akatana on 19.10.2008 at 21:10

And to all who might say that this lump of cells could be a baby, to those I say, so this means that every time you masturbate you kill a couple million possible babies? That is ridiculous. It is the same as saying that a girl kills a baby every month just because she failed to get impregnated.

let's get a little bit off-topic and cross the "christianity" topic: you know, masturbation is considered as a crime in the Bible precisely because of semen waste. It's the story of Onan (where the word "onanism" comes from). And I think (personnal analyse) that sodomy is condamned for the same reason. Sodome and Gomorrha were not burnt down because there were homosexual cities but cities of moral dereliction (you can be homosexual and not fuck with the whole town or have orgies every night and day) and above all rapist (they wanted to rape the angels!!!). We see that nowadays the position of (at least catholic and orthodox) church is very ambiguous and not very well balanced: masturbation is not recomanded but no horrible, monstruous, unnatural crime, but sodomy and abortion are still so considered, what is very irrationnal! (well, I think it's because masturabtion is at least more discret, it's supposed to only involve one persone)
And I'm sorry for having played the nurd if you already knew the fact

@ Toast: about your malthusian argument, do you know the Church of Euthanasia? It could please you (it's mostly a counter-cultural joke)