Good to see I'm not the only one who doesn't hand out 10s or 1s.

When I voted I had 1200+ votes with two 10 votes and one 1 vote. People are way too quick to tank and praise unnecessarily.

Does the OP plan on updating this everyday? Because the Top 20 isn't exactly a stagnant thing...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 10.12.2011 at 19:56
Does the OP plan on updating this everyday? Because the Top 20 isn't exactly a stagnant thing...

Nothing hard to do if you have a basic program.

Written by BitterCOld on 10.12.2011 at 17:20

Written by JCJen7 on 10.12.2011 at 10:11

What is the purpose of having those numbers as an option if we're not allowed to click on them???

at what point did i say you were not allowed to click on them? jump to extremes much?

they should be used sparing for absolutes, not 200 10's of 240 votes cast... either that or i guess many folks are just far too easily impressed.

People keep assuming I am talking about their post with my sentence. I am talking to the guy whose paragraph stated many times that 10 means flawless, and art can't be flawless.

Written by JCJen7 on 10.12.2011 at 21:45

People keep assuming I am talking about their post with my sentence. I am talking to the guy whose paragraph stated many times that 10 means flawless, and art can't be flawless.

That would be me. It is my opinion on the matter and I stand by it. if you have differents ways to interpret 10/10 it's your call.

Written by Edmund Fogg on 10.12.2011 at 22:25

Written by JCJen7 on 10.12.2011 at 21:45

People keep assuming I am talking about their post with my sentence. I am talking to the guy whose paragraph stated many times that 10 means flawless, and art can't be flawless.

That would be me. It is my opinion on the matter and I stand by it. if you have differents ways to interpret 10/10 it's your call.

Absolutely. the numbers can be interpreted your own way.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.12.2011 at 18:28

Even though the 2222 I rated are only albums I phsyically own that are featured here I am 100% sure those 10s are all the 10s I would award. All in all the ration 10 to number of albums herad is even smaller because I must have heard over at least 10,000 albums in my life

Well I don't value tens that much at this point. Tens, for me, are albums without weak moments overall, that I could listen to all the time and that have some emotional appeal.
And boy, if things in my country don't change, 3/4 of the money I'd earn during my lifetime would be spent if I wanted to have a collection that vast in the age of forty.

Good stuff, not big surprises though.

I don't like the 1-10 scale, I think Metalstorm should just conform and go with the thumbs up and thumbs down system since a hard percentage of "likes" tell a lot more than a non standardized scale from 1 to 10.

Written by 4look4rd on 12.12.2011 at 21:33
I think Metalstorm should just conform and go with the thumbs up and thumbs down system...

What other sites use that template?

If MS did that, it'd become a clusterfuck in no time. Seriously, YouTube rating bar = bad idea.

Written by vezzy on 12.12.2011 at 21:45
Seriously, YouTube rating bar = bad idea.

Oh he meant like YouTube? No thanks. That's like the worst rating system ever.

Since the rating system is a subjective view, I see a "1" vote sometimes being suitable due to vocals or another element you dispise in the music that ruins the rest of the decent work. On the other hand, for whatever reason, I think of an MS album vote different then an MS review. IMO, to give an album that you really love a 10 is different than writing a review and giving it a 10. Nothing is perfect so it seems there could never be a real 10. Also, I find myself only rating albums that I enjoy and not rating the forgettable ones, which skews the ratings.

I can see myself voting for an album and giving it a 1 if I hate it at that time, but I can never see myself giving such a low score if writing a formal review. So should I instead choose a 2 or 3 if I find something I like in the music? Even if I rate this way, many others would still gives 1's because they merely don't care.

Upon writing this I realize I should probably be more strict with my album votes, and I should treat them just like a review. But on the other hand, music that is exceptionally good should get a 10 in my opinion; there has to be a threshold somewhere for enjoyable music. As for the "1" vote, maybe people should think about what they like about this self-dispised music and give it some credit, awarding an extra point for any enjoyable elements.

If anything we should be able to rate albums with decimal places for more precision. And if there were comments tagged to your rating that could be useful; a quick way to explain your reasonings. Although if there were decimal places in the rating system, it would lower the minimum score to 0.1 but keep the maximum the same at 10, which would handicap new releases.

If I had to guess if you voided both the 1 and 10 votes from the top 20 of 2011, there would be much less votes for the more "popular" releases.

What I dont understand is that even some of the Staff members are very quick to give 10's - The MS "rule of thumb" is that 7 is good, 8 very good etc. etc - Some of these guys have over a 1000 votes averaging close to 9!! So you're telling me that pretty much EVERYTHING you listen to is close to perfect?

I rarely give 10's...obviously I do, but 40 out of 950 votes seem pretty fair. I think anyone who has an average rating of over 8.5 either only vote for albums they like or they just fucking troll - In a perfect world all metal is amazing and by the off chance you would get hold of an album which doesnt suck, but thats not the way it is.

I agree with the above post that we should be able to give decimals to our ratings. Sometimes two albums are very evenly matched but the one slightly better and a 10% discrepancy between the two / same rating is not warranted.

In regards to our system vs. youtube, ours is immensely better, even if flawed.

at the very least you are able to look at who voted what for what... V above me and I have very different tastes, so if we vote on the same album the average score won't be great. seeing one of use endorse it while the other dislikes it should be a good picture.

truth be told, i really don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut what most people here think of albums or how they rate them (aside from enjoying nuking the 10's or 1's crowd votes) ... i am far more concerned with the opinions of peoples whose tastes are similar to my own.

Further expanding a bit on what BitterCOld said, the greatest thing about the system on MS is that we can stalk other people's votes. If you have been lurking or posting here long enough, it's not hard to find people with taste that is similar enough to yours. It is through this system that I have found many cool albums I would otherwise have missed, rather than relying on looking on the top 20 which is more of a barometer for popularity while a lot of nice music gets less than 20 votes. Also, invisible profiles don't have their albums in the top 20.

Also, looking at one's album votes is also a good way to remind oneself what's good from the year and such, especially when rounding up the end of year lists when you have listened to 200+ albums in the year.

Of course, no one is banning you from taking the top 20 ratings so seriously, but there are better things to do, you know. Like finding out more great music

Written by [user id=1909] on 13.12.2011 at 19:43
What I dont understand is that even some of the Staff members are very quick to give 10's - The MS "rule of thumb" is that 7 is good, 8 very good etc. etc - Some of these guys have over a 1000 votes averaging close to 9!

Okay I guess I'll take the bait here...

Are you fucking kidding me.

It's not bad enough we take shit from everyone for everything else we apparently suck at, but now we're taking flak for how we vote? I guarantee you - literally, guarantee you - that our combined votes are a hell of a lot more thought out than the average user votes.

Just because you give 25 (that's twenty-five) 1s (that's the lowest possible score) to albums you apparently think are just that bad, doesn't mean our overall ratings are inflated. You just happen to tank your overall score with a ludicrous amount of "worst ever" votes.

Written by [user id=1909] on 13.12.2011 at 19:43


I rarely give 10's...obviously I do, but 40 out of 950 votes seem pretty fair.

Actually, it isn't. 10's are, at least according to how I understood what 10 means on a scale of 1-10, reserved for a mere handful of your absolutely favorite albums. An album that does not have a weak nanosecond, let alone a weak track. An album where every, and I do mean every track blows you away for its entire duration. Are you saying you heard 40 such albums? As much as you lack standards, something like this is impossible.

The same goes for your 25 1's. You've heard 25 albums you'd call worst ever? Are you even aware of what "worst" means? Or did you skip that English class?

If someone should shit over the way other users vote, that someone sure as hell ain't you, buddy.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 20:43

Written by [user id=1909] on 13.12.2011 at 19:43
What I dont understand is that even some of the Staff members are very quick to give 10's - The MS "rule of thumb" is that 7 is good, 8 very good etc. etc - Some of these guys have over a 1000 votes averaging close to 9!

Okay I guess I'll take the bait here...

Are you fucking kidding me.

It's not bad enough we take shit from everyone for everything else we apparently suck at, but now we're taking flak for how we vote? I guarantee you - literally, guarantee you - that our combined votes are a hell of a lot more thought out than the average user votes.

Just because you give 25 (that's twenty-five) 1s (that's the lowest possible score) to albums you apparently think are just that bad, doesn't mean our overall ratings are inflated. You just happen to tank your overall score with a ludicrous amount of "worst ever" votes.

Oh I actually wasnt talking about you, but ok take the "bait". Ludicrous amount of "worst ever" votes? Hmm...I think in reality having 2.5% of my votes constitute absolute turd albums is pretty lenient because there sure is a shitload of bad music out there. If only 2.5% of all the metal I listened to sucked so bad I wanted to die, I would REJOICE!

And where did I say that the staff as a whole has no credibility? Only SOME of them slap 9's and 10's around as if they never even listened to the music.

Oh and as for me "tanking" my overall score: Maybe next time before you "take the bait" you should first calculate how much tanking was really done. By removing the ludicrous amount of twenty-five 1's from my voting, the difference in my overall scoring goes from 6.33 to a staggeringly tanked 6.47....unbelievable how a couple of 1's just fucked my entire voting rating.

Written by [user id=1909] on 13.12.2011 at 21:12
...

Read Slayer666's post. He seems to be thinking exactly what I'm thinking.

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 20:57

Written by [user id=1909] on 13.12.2011 at 19:43


I rarely give 10's...obviously I do, but 40 out of 950 votes seem pretty fair.

Actually, it isn't. 10's are, at least according to how I understood what 10 means on a scale of 1-10, reserved for a mere handful of your absolutely favorite albums. An album that does not have a weak nanosecond, let alone a weak track. An album where every, and I do mean every track blows you away for its entire duration. Are you saying you heard 40 such albums? As much as you lack standards, something like this is impossible.

The same goes for your 25 1's. You've heard 25 albums you'd call worst ever? Are you even aware of what "worst" means? Or did you skip that English class?

If someone should shit over the way other users vote, that someone sure as hell ain't you, buddy.

Fair enough, but there are certain bands which I absolutely love everything they do. Perhaps Im not the person to shit on how others vote, but Im sure as fuck not one of those who give 10's to absolutely everything and anything. Some users give only 10s and 9s....thats the point Im trying to make.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 20:43
It's not bad enough we take shit from everyone for everything else we apparently suck at, but now we're taking flak for how we vote?

Quite normal. Everyone needs a scapegoat.

Besides, you no good staffers didn't give the appropriate score to that favorite DM album of mine.

Written by vezzy on 13.12.2011 at 21:28
Besides, you no good staffers didn't give the appropriate score to that favorite DM album of mine.

I'd give all your favorite albums a 1.

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 20:57

An album that does not have a weak nanosecond, let alone a weak track.

Dude, if we took it like that, there wouldn't be a single objective ten in the whole world of music. You kinda might be overrreacting if I'm going to give an example of my own, because I can't speak for anyone else's, even the most perfect of albums in my tens' collection has, not only weaker seconds but also weaker tracks than the most awesome of the bunch. But just because they're weakER, doesn't mean they're weak. A quieter moment makes you enjoy the more intense one even more. A ten should be an album that you hold in very high esteem, that has precious emotional value to you and that you could replay it over and over again. Out of 950 albums, maybe the dude HAS heard 40 such albums?

A human analogy to your perfect album, and I think my analogy might work, since you guys like putting numbers on girls - is a perfect girl. Skin that looks airbrushed away - no place for any hair, no occassional pimples, not a single rough spot. Awesome, natural red, classic length hair without a split end. The absolutely most perfect body and face in the world, that look like they have been carved by the most unrealistic artist ever. That girl would be a perfext ten, but she doesn't exist. And even if she would, she'd just be YOUR perfect girl - someone else might have preferred blonde hair/little more or less curves/a smaller nose etc on her. Am I right? There are no perfect works of art, only the ones that are perfect to you.

As one listens to more good music, maybe his expectations will be a bar higher, and maybe they will not be. But is putting numbers on art really be made such a big deal? I rarely looked at anyone's ratings, usually when on the shoutbox someone points out blatant abuse, or a person asks me to, or I'm just that curious of their taste, but I never judge what I find there, because it's personal business. For me, they're there just for keeping track how my taste develops over the years.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 21:48
There are no perfect works of art, only the ones that are perfect to you.

I think you two both have valid points.

While S36 is a bit extreme in his evaluation of a 10 (since, as you pointed out, can't ever really be assigned to anything) he does bring up a good point about objectivity.

While everyone's ratings are their own, a 10 is - objectively - for the best of the best. If you have 50 10s or whatever, it either says you can't tell the difference between good and great or you're just incredibly easy to please.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 21:48

Dude, if we took it like that, there wouldn't be a single objective ten in the whole world of music. You kinda might be overrreacting if I'm going to give an example of my own, because I can't speak for anyone else's, even the most perfect of albums in my tens' collection has, not only weaker seconds but also weaker tracks than the most awesome of the bunch. But just because they're weakER, doesn't mean they're weak.

Then they shouldn't be a 10, simple as that. All 3 of my tens are such albums. Some tracks are better, but it's such a slight difference that I can't even say that the weaker tracks are actually weaker. Rather, they are just (quite slightly) less good, but still mindblowing in their own right.

Quote:

Out of 950 albums, maybe the dude HAS heard 40 such albums?

Maybe he has heard 40 albums that meet the criteria you described, but I think that criteria does a disservice to a rating of 10.

Quote:

A human analogy to your perfect album, and I think my analogy might work, since you guys like putting numbers on girls - is a perfect girl. Skin that looks airbrushed away - no place for any hair, no occassional pimples, not a single rough spot. Awesome, natural red, classic length hair without a split end. The absolutely most perfect body and face in the world, that look like they have been carved by the most unrealistic artist ever. That girl would be a perfext ten, but she doesn't exist. And even if she would, she'd just be YOUR perfect girl - someone else might have preferred blonde hair/little more or less curves/a smaller nose etc on her. Am I right? There are no perfect works of art, only the ones that are perfect to you.

Oh, I love comparing stuff to hot girls. Yes, you're right. That kind of a girl would be a perfect girl for me only, but there would only be one such girl. Not 40 of them. I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself properly here, but look at it this way: Valskyf-whatever thingy has 40 10's, I have 3. Now, that would be like if I had one perfect girl (which is completely logical, seeing as how she's perfect), and he would have 10+ of them.

Quote:

But is putting numbers on art really be made such a big deal?

I don't really care, I just don't like it when people are accusing others of the things they're guilty of themselves.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 21:54

I think you two both have valid points.

While S36 is a bit extreme in his evaluation of a 10 (since, as you pointed out, can't ever really be assigned to anything) he does bring up a good point about objectivity.

While everyone's ratings are their own, a 10 is - objectively - for the best of the best. If you have 50 10s or whatever, it either says you can't tell the difference between good and great or you're just incredibly easy to please.

Well we do, but I just keep thinking how we're making too big of a fuss about it. Someone is easy to please? It's his human right to be so. I used to be like that. Hell, I probably am still like that. The way some of us users (I'm guilty of it too) try to pimp out our tastes and claim we have higher standards than others made me sick in the way I treated some others (my brother and sister, respectively. Yes, they do listen to same albums over and over again. No, it doesn't make them any less awesome!), and now it makes me sick in the way users here treat eachother. Music taste isn't something people should use to impress or intimidate people by.

Yes, both you and Slayer (I'm taking you two as an example, I don't think of you as arrogant persons but you have less 10's than most of us here so it allows me to make an objective point, don't think of this as an attack) have the right to say you're harder to please than most other guys in this thread save of Marcel ofc. Does that account to anything in the world? More people like you makes bad music harder to sell. But your, or my standards of bad or unimpressive music/metal is another person's treasure. And 90% of users in here do not endorse purposedly bad music anyway. Sure, not all metal comes close to the 'okay'-gray area, some of it is abysmally bad. And not all metal is made for the love of music. But people handing out perfect tens to SUCH albums is reasonably small. So we can rest knowing that the users here aren't Satan's legions designed to popularize awful metal.

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 22:08

Maybe he has heard 40 albums that meet the criteria you described, but I think that criteria does a disservice to a rating of 10.

Yes, you're right. That kind of a girl would be a perfect girl for me only, but there would only be one such girl.

Point one: So his standard of a ten isn't a lot like yours. Maybe it isn't much like mine either. But as ratings ain't real and albums aren't people, I doubt any album is going to shoot itself for it

Point two: No, you would have none because nothing like that, in our world or in the art world, doesn't exist. And he'd have 10+ of them because he reckons a perfect looking girl should be allowed a bad hair day, a little cellulite here and there or just about any size of boobs. It wouldn't be a blasphemy for him to call her PERFECT. When people tell you you have perfect mental health, that also means you can forget your keys in your car or cry over nothing sometimes, BECAUSE YOU'RE HUMAN. And, get this, art is human. There isn't a perfect piece of art. That three tens in your collection? They might be stunning and you have every right to call them perfect to you. But they're not.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:09
Well we do, but I just keep thinking how we're making too big of a fuss about it. Someone is easy to please? It's his human right to be so.

Obviously he's got the right to give 1s and 10s to albums he feels appropriate - I'm not questioning the ethics of users' voting patterns.

Quote:
The way some of us users (I'm guilty of it too) try to pimp out our tastes and claim we have higher standards than others made me sick in the way I treated some others. Music taste isn't something people should use to impress or intimidate people by.

I've never claimed to have higher standards, nor do I use my taste in music to somehow try to impress or intimidate people. Anyone who follows me in the forums knows I'm a fan of artists like Elton John and Adele and I enjoy 80's synth pop... Anyone who claims to be "better" at listening to music is an idiot.

Quote:
Does that account to anything in the world?

I'm not trying to have this account for anything. All I'm pointing out is that some people obviously are more impressed by what they hear than others. It's not a matter of who has a more objective outlook or who has a better taste in music, it's about the inability to separate more than 40 albums from each other, giving them all a perfect score. When I had 1200+ votes I had 2 10s. That doesn't mean I vote "better" or "worse" than anyone - it means I know how to look at my favorite albums and break them up into "best" and "runner up" categories.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:12

Point one: So his standard of a ten isn't a lot like yours. Maybe it isn't much like mine either. But as ratings ain't real and albums aren't people, I doubt any album is going to shoot itself for it

Point two: No, you would have none because nothing like that, in our world or in the art world, doesn't exist.

1) It's not a question of standards, Mora. According to descriptions given to the numerical ratings, 10 = perfect. Although there is nothing that is really perfect, when you click on that "10", you acknowledge that the album is about as close to perfect as it can get. My description fits into this criteria more than what you said, I think.

2) DAMN YOU I WANT MY PERFECT GIRL!!! D:

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:20

When I had 1200+ votes I had 2 10s.

Out of curiosity, which albums were those?

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:20

post

I know you're not like that, though you DID say to the dude he forces low votes a bit too much. But everyone has such moments. Ever seen a dude with a side fringe and a metalcore shirt or a similar stereotype and thought, "oh boy, what a douche". Don't tell me you never did. We all judge people based on their taste in music even if only we do it sometimes. I didn't say you or Slayer or Marcel (I mentioned him too, did I?) is like that, but there ARE people on forums which take rating as a contest in who can be "the most objective" and "more cool".

Like dudes who go around and brag "my rating of entire Iron Maiden's discography averages at 7.351, sure they were important, but this totally obscure band pulls it off so well they could have been so big in the 80's and I'm so cool for telling you that, now do polish my shiny metal boots while I show you my battle vest collection and totally play classical music while you do that cause I've grown tired of metal, only a handful of bands do it for me these days..."

Have I bored you enough with this description? This is how dudes like these sound to me. And that type of people are the plague in every democratic vote system whether they rate albums, cookie dough flavors or presidents. We all might recognize ourselves in a part of the above speech, but I hope none of us ever finds himself uttering a statement that long and awful.

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 22:26

My description fits into this criteria more than what you said, I think.

I edited my post, so you can see what I meant more clearly.