So, now there's an outright civil war going on.

Written by FinnishSammich on 12.06.2012 at 20:26

So, now there's an outright civil war going on.

I don't know if I would add the word "civil" in this context, if any context dealing with war at all.

Any idea what are the Syrian Armed Forces demographies?

Written by Candlemass on 13.06.2012 at 08:28


I don't know if I would add the word "civil" in this context, if any context dealing with war at all.

Any idea what are the Syrian Armed Forces demographies?

How do you mean you wouldn't call it civil war?
Taken from Wikipedia: "A civil war is a war between organized groups within the same nation state or republic" Pretty sure that fits the criteria.

Syrian Armed Forces have about 650 000 soldiers, if we count the reserved personnel in.
About 80% of them are in the ground forces.
There's also the Republican Guard, that has about 25 000 bodyguards.

The rebels have little over 100 000 soldiers, + some small islamist groups.

Written by FinnishSammich on 13.06.2012 at 17:50

Written by Candlemass on 13.06.2012 at 08:28


I don't know if I would add the word "civil" in this context, if any context dealing with war at all.

That not what I meant, NVM, who ever got it - got it

This revolution is neither for beer nor for metal, our revolution is against a fucking tyrant, against a killer regime, one that persecuted us for too long. We are not waiting for NATO to come "free" us, all what we depend on now is the FSA and that's it.

[rant]it's funny how western people shat their pants when Morsi won, that was the choice of the Egyptian people ... even the ones who did not elect Morsi are happy to finally have a president elected democratically. piss off anti-Islamist douches[/rant]

Written by InnerSelf on 26.06.2012 at 02:45

This revolution is neither for beer nor for metal, our revolution is against a fucking tyrant, against a killer regime, one that persecuted us for too long. We are not waiting for NATO to come "free" us, all what we depend on now is the FSA and that's it.

[rant]it's funny how western people shat their pants when Morsi won, that was the choice of the Egyptian people ... even the ones who did not elect Morsi are happy to finally have a president elected democratically. piss off anti-Islamist douches[/rant]

Sure it's for "beer or metal", they mean a lot in a country with little or no democratic freedoms. Now don't they?
Wow, really, no tyrant? and then what? Replace him with another oppresive goverment, only now you elected it?
It seems that you didn't take too many lessons in politics during high school (if you have them).
An Ochlocracy isn't a democracy, both of them a group of people can chose.
Now you can hunt down minorities, but you elected it. Now that's bloody genius. How many coptic christians have left Egypt so far after the 'revolution'? 100,00 maybe?

Anti-theist in general and Anti-Islamic in praticular. Any reason to call me a "douche" or you have no actual argument backing up your moralism?
Women's rights, minorities rights, democratic freedoms, and damn right metalheads rights - till then, "western people" will have some serious issues with you.

Written by Candlemass on 26.06.2012 at 07:59

Sure it's for "beer or metal", they mean a lot in a country with little or no democratic freedoms. Now don't they?
Wow, really, no tyrant? and then what? Replace him with another oppresive goverment, only now you elected it?
It seems that you didn't take too many lessons in politics during high school (if you have them).
An Ochlocracy isn't a democracy, both of them a group of people can chose.
Now you can hunt down minorities, but you elected it. Now that's bloody genius. How many coptic christians have left Egypt so far after the 'revolution'? 100,00 maybe?

Anti-theist in general and Anti-Islamic in praticular. Any reason to call me a "douche" or you have no actual argument backing up your moralism?
Women's rights, minorities rights, democratic freedoms, and damn right metalheads rights - till then, "western people" will have some serious issues with you.

Insults are always very amusing, personal ones and anti-religious ones.
Hypocrisy is also really fun, allegedly supporting the Arab Spring then frowning on the results. We are countries with Muslims majority, and when an Islamic political party comes with a clear program and a clear view on how to lead the country in the post-tyrant era I will most gladly elect them, I don't want to enter in a "Islam is good-Islam is bad" debate as I can clearly see that your head is far up your own ass you'll only hear yourself talking, or what you've been always fed with.
Talking down to me ,and to Muslims in general, insulting, questioning our "political education" and making fun of our morals (like "westerns" have always done) is what you do best, that's it.

Written by InnerSelf on 26.06.2012 at 16:36

Insults are always very amusing, personal ones and anti-religious ones.
Hypocrisy is also really fun, allegedly supporting the Arab Spring then frowning on the results. We are countries with Muslims majority, and when an Islamic political party comes with a clear program and a clear view on how to lead the country in the post-tyrant era I will most gladly elect them, I don't want to enter in a "Islam is good-Islam is bad" debate as I can clearly see that your head is far up your own ass you'll only hear yourself talking, or what you've been always fed with.
Talking down to me ,and to Muslims in general, insulting, questioning our "political education" and making fun of our morals (like "westerns" have always done) is what you do best, that's it.

Half of this conversation is going on in your head. Down to Muslims in general? Where? I'm unfond of theocratic governments, and Islamism is one of them. If you see that as "talking down..to Muslim in general" it's your and only your interpretation which draw that distorted conclusion, because Muslims pre se were not my subject.
Your concept of "democracy" and the results of the elections are. I was questioning your political education, which was evidently poor here, but it is not the subject, probably unnecessarily offending to you, and not anything contributing to the conversation, so please accept my apologies about the remarks of your high school education. That was not a polite nor fair way to debate this subject.

Is "douche" an anti-religious insult? and what's wrong with anti-religious remarks exactly? that is what we do in democracies, parody and making "fun" of morals is a legitimate way of expressing our opinions or to make a a point to raise further open discussion on the matter.
Where do you see insults in my post? disrespect maybe, which I have already referred to. Outright insults is your doing only. I suggest you stop with them.

I'm not the subject, especially not as a representative of "the westerns". The Arab spring and it's results are the subject.
And the results that are not marry for secularists. Which the part of the Western left and it's intellectuals, like Zizek, expected them to be.
Hence, on face, not Arab spring, but Islamic winter. As offending as may find it to be, it is useful.

What I find deeply offensive, is the reactions against free speech in Europe by Islamists
and people being prosecuted simply because of what they actually believe and have discourse about, and this is after the "Arab Spring".
The Tunisian Atheist sentenced to seven and a half years of prison in Tunisia, Ghazi Beji got attacked by a Palestinian extremist islamist by his teeth.
After Ghazi was transferred to the hospital, other refugees at the camp organize a protest calling for his death, which drove the director of the camp to kick him out of the camp instead of helping Ghazi to be in a safe place. Ghazi now doesn't have any place where to live.

Written by Candlemass on 26.06.2012 at 19:39

Half of this conversation is going on in your head. Down to Muslims in general? Where? I'm unfond of theocratic governments, and Islamism is one of them. If you see that as "talking down..to Muslim in general" it's your and only your interpretation which draw that distorted conclusion, because Muslims pre se were not my subject.
Your concept of "democracy" and the results of the elections are. I was questioning your political education, which was evidently poor here, but it is not the subject, probably unnecessarily offending to you, and not anything contributing to the conversation, so please accept my apologies about the remarks of your high school education. That was not a polite nor fair way to debate this subject.

Is "douche" an anti-religious insult? and what's wrong with anti-religious remarks exactly? that is what we do in democracies, parody and making "fun" of morals is a legitimate way of expressing our opinions or to make a a point to raise further open discussion on the matter.
Where do you see insults in my post? disrespect maybe, which I have already referred to. Outright insults is your doing only. I suggest you stop with them.

I'm not the subject, especially not as a representative of "the westerns". The Arab spring and it's results are the subject.
And the results that are not marry for secularists. Which the part of the Western left and it's intellectuals, like Zizek, expected them to be.
Hence, on face, not Arab spring, but Islamic winter. As offending as may find it to be, it is useful.

What I find deeply offensive, is the reactions against free speech in Europe by Islamists
and people being prosecuted simply because of what they actually believe and have discourse about, and this is after the "Arab Spring".
The Tunisian Atheist sentenced to seven and a half years of prison in Tunisia, Ghazi Beji got attacked by a Palestinian extremist islamist by his teeth.
After Ghazi was transferred to the hospital, other refugees at the camp organize a protest calling for his death, which drove the director of the camp to kick him out of the camp instead of helping Ghazi to be in a safe place. Ghazi now doesn't have any place where to live.

I might have jumped into conclusions, after all this isn't the first time someone speaks to me like this, the tone annoyed me and the educations remark actually deeply offended me. You might have not had the intention to insult me nor Islam and for that I'll apologize.
I have minor issues concerning anti-religious remarks as long as they are in the vein of constructive criticism and not based on pre-assumptions or hate-filled speech.
There is one thing that you have to be aware of, it's completely impossible to rise from decades of persecution and dictator-ism into fully democratic governments and regimes, awareness needs to be built and it happens that the Islamic parties are the most prepared and most mature parties and now they're leading this transition into democracy. I have faith in those parties as it happens that I have faith in the way they think and their vision of the future Arab countries.
About that incident, extremists are everywhere, they do crazy things and it's not limited to Islamic extremists, there needs to be a solution to this as it's one of the major issues we have .... as I said, awareness needs to be raised and that's not easy.
I just hope your "problems" are with islamic extremists and Islam itself !

Written by InnerSelf on 26.06.2012 at 20:17

I might have jumped into conclusions, after all this isn't the first time someone speaks to me like this, the tone annoyed me and the educations remark actually deeply offended me. You might have not had the intention to insult me nor Islam and for that I'll apologize.
I have minor issues concerning anti-religious remarks as long as they are in the vein of constructive criticism and not based on pre-assumptions or hate-filled speech.
There is one thing that you have to be aware of, it's completely impossible to rise from decades of persecution and dictator-ism into fully democratic governments and regimes, awareness needs to be built and it happens that the Islamic parties are the most prepared and most mature parties and now they're leading this transition into democracy. I have faith in those parties as it happens that I have faith in the way they think and their vision of the future Arab countries.
About that incident, extremists are everywhere, they do crazy things and it's not limited to Islamic extremists, there needs to be a solution to this as it's one of the major issues we have .... as I said, awareness needs to be raised and that's not easy.
I just hope your "problems" are with islamic extremists and Islam itself !

You could have a point there. Maybe I'm expecting unrealistically for a perfect solution, in an imperfect world and changes in the long run are for the better for Egyptians and Tunisians, hopefully Syrians too.
I do have problems with Islam "itself" (given there is one correct theology), I think there is not a strong base enough to believe in god/s or religion, and I expressed this here before (different topic) my dissatisfaction with Islamic scripture and treatment of women. This does mean I think the Quran should be banned or Muslims prosecuted. What it does mean, is that people should be vigilant about secular and democratic government. religious moderates maybe don't act in violence, but this eventually this is a matter of worldview differences, and hopefully to be solved through culture instead of violence.
For similar reasons I reject and actively oppose Judaism in most of its forms. I think [Harris

7+ years in jail isn't from extremism. It is Institutionalized punishment because of disbelief.

Written by Candlemass on 26.06.2012 at 20:54

7+ years in jail isn't from extremism. It is Institutionalized punishment because of disbelief.

Nah, Institutionalized punishment for disbelief isn't by any means prison ... I suspect they fabricated a story and imprisoned him for it.
if it was up to the extremists they would have killed him, another misinterpretation of Islamic laws by the extremists concerning non-Muslims sadly

Written by InnerSelf on 26.06.2012 at 21:36

Written by Candlemass on 26.06.2012 at 20:54

7+ years in jail isn't from extremism. It is Institutionalized punishment because of disbelief.

Nah, Institutionalized punishment for disbelief isn't by any means prison ... I suspect they fabricated a story and imprisoned him for it.
if it was up to the extremists they would have killed him, another misinterpretation of Islamic laws by the extremists concerning non-Muslims sadly

Seems like it is because of disbelief from what I've read. I'm at work, so I cannot access the link again.

As I said before, it is a matter of worldviews.
Dnying the word of god and sewing doubt in minds is the greatest harm that can be done when seen from a religious prespective. Its a completely different way of looking at existence, society, humanity and what constitutes harm. And a baseless and unjust one in my opinion.

Eventually there will be conflict, and for secularists time is not on their side. They simply do not bring enough children.
One worldview puts people in it's center and the other so called god's words. The scriptuers are clear about women, gays, outsidersand people of other religions to an extent where even moderate or liberal religious people have problems reconciling with a modern democratic worldview.

Speaking of beer...
Two Iranians Sentenced to Death for?Alcohol Consumption

Written by Candlemass on 27.06.2012 at 08:46

Eventually there will be conflict, and for secularists time is not on their side. They simply do not bring enough children.
One worldview puts people in it's center and the other so called god's words. The scriptuers are clear about women, gays, outsidersand people of other religions to an extent where even moderate or liberal religious people have problems reconciling with a modern democratic worldview.

Speaking of beer...
Two Iranians Sentenced to Death for?Alcohol Consumption

Again, no !
The scripture is indeed clear but misinterpreted, Islam guarantees women's rights as equals to men. I really don't like going through this discussion as I'm not in the mood at all.
about the Alcohol thing, Iran's government might be even worse than the Saudi one in terms of extremism (and hypocrisy).

I dont think turkey gonna have war with Syria any soon because its part of neto and USA dont want the revolution in Syria to win because under table the regime of al assad and iran are friends with USA they are just playing a fucking game around and if the Revolution wins in syria for sure Muslim brotherhood will be taking over Syria as long they are the old arch enemy of al assad they are the once who declared an Islamic revolution in 1979 in syria witch it ended in 1982 with bloody end . so for sure they are the real winners and iran and USA will be the biggest losers because god party will be controlled by new Syria and Isreal will be always be in danger of a war because of the Golan highest .

@Candlemass Dont talk about Islam in this shallow way just remind your Your self who protracted you when you were wronged in all the past ages from the Islamic stat in Arabia til Andalusia 's fall and ottoman empire who did hold you in all these empires ?

Written by Blackleaf on 30.06.2012 at 08:35

I dont think turkey gonna have war with Syria any soon because its part of neto and USA dont want the revolution in Syria to win because under table the regime of al assad and iran are friends with USA they are just playing a fucking game around and if the Revolution wins in syria for sure Muslim brotherhood will be taking over Syria as long they are the old arch enemy of al assad they are the once who declared an Islamic revolution in 1979 in syria witch it ended in 1982 with bloody end . so for sure they are the real winners and iran and USA will be the biggest losers because god party will be controlled by new Syria and Isreal will be always be in danger of a war because of the Golan highest .

@Candlemass Dont talk about Islam in this shallow way just remind your Your self who protracted you when you were wronged in all the past ages from the Islamic stat in Arabia til Andalusia 's fall and ottoman empire who did hold you in all these empires ?

Shallow way? I wasn't speaking about Islam per se, I was referring to past conversations in the forums.
Protected me? Sounds to me delusional. I'm 23 years old, and never been under Islamic reign. I don't have "fathers", I have one father.
If you mean certain religious people in power that 'protected' (meaning as a Dhimmi) a tribe of Jews a few hundreds of years ago which has little to do with me whatsoever? Besides you don't think your cherry picking here?
You don't personal credit or blame for something you didn't do, which you had no say nor no part in it. The choices Islamic leaders at the time, have nothing to do Muslims choose or how they act today. Reminds me of someone lacking any knowledge in math, yet taking credit for Jewish scientist's work in physics. What tribal nonsense.

Quote:

Quote:
@Candlemass Dont talk about Islam in this shallow way just remind your Your self who protracted you when you were wronged in all the past ages from the Islamic stat in Arabia til Andalusia 's fall and ottoman empire who did hold you in all these empires ?

Shallow way? I wasn't speaking about Islam per se, I was referring to past conversations in the forums.
Protected me? Sounds to me delusional. I'm 23 years old, and never been under Islamic reign. I don't have "fathers", I have one father.
If you mean certain religious people in power that 'protected' (meaning as a Dhimmi) a tribe of Jews a few hundreds of years ago which has little to do with me whatsoever? Besides you don't think your cherry picking here?
You don't personal credit or blame for something you didn't do, which you had no say nor no part in it. The choices Islamic leaders at the time, have nothing to do Muslims choose or how they act today. Reminds me of someone lacking any knowledge in math, yet taking credit for Jewish scientist's work in physics. What tribal nonsense.

@Candlemass Really after Andalusia 's fall the Jewish people were under attack all the time they even expelled and exiled from Andalusia even before musilms the Ottoman empire open its doors for you to live in it in peace and that what happen even though you have a hand of its collapse in the great war and after and about fathers yes you do have fathers and they lived in peace under all of the Islamic empir:) and about math we have the best did you not ever heard of KORIZMY

Quote:

Quote:

Written by Blackleaf on 01.07.2012 at 03:14

@Candlemass Dont talk about Islam in this shallow way just remind your Your self who protracted you when you were wronged in all the past ages from the Islamic stat in Arabia til Andalusia 's fall and ottoman empire who did hold you in all these empires ?

Shallow way? I wasn't speaking about Islam per se, I was referring to past conversations in the forums.
Protected me? Sounds to me delusional. I'm 23 years old, and never been under Islamic reign. I don't have "fathers", I have one father.
If you mean certain religious people in power that 'protected' (meaning as a Dhimmi) a tribe of Jews a few hundreds of years ago which has little to do with me whatsoever? Besides you don't think your cherry picking here?
You don't personal credit or blame for something you didn't do, which you had no say nor no part in it. The choices Islamic leaders at the time, have nothing to do Muslims choose or how they act today. Reminds me of someone lacking any knowledge in math, yet taking credit for Jewish scientist's work in physics. What tribal nonsense.

@Candlemass Really after Andalusia 's fall the Jewish people were under attack all the time they even expelled and exiled from Andalusia even before musilms the Ottoman empire open its doors for you to live in it in peace and that what happen even though you have a hand of its collapse in the great war and after and about fathers yes you do have fathers and they lived in peace under all of the Islamic empir:) and about math we have the best did you not ever heard of KORIZMY

Their isn't a place Jews were not expelled from (England, Spain, etc). Jews were a small differentiated ethnic group, that's the price to pay.
Today Muslims attack Jewish schools in Norway. And that's besides the point.
It is your notion of collective responsibility is what I reject, not your cherry picking of history to fit your ends.

Uhm, I saw this thread for the first time though but Al-Houla massacre is now regular as for everytime it happens in Syria or even my city (Aleppo).
I don't know how to say that but as IS said we're not depending on the nato or anything, we're just depending on The FSA that's it, and I asked to join it
Russia, China and Iran will never change their mind as they have interests being with the Syrian government.
And I guess NATO will never attack or help though, it's about to be like 25k killed people in Syria and they still say 'We feel bad' O'really you feel bad.. Thanks for your feelings anyway.
But after the FSA is owning more than 60% of Aleepo and increasing, I hope the victory is soon.. I just hope that.