P.S.- you still havn't told me why I don't recieve Notifications when you quote me.

Written by [user id=16496] on 09.10.2006 at 18:53

Quote:

When I say educated, I mean educated in the ways of gun safety, and as long as we know that person has gone through a gun safety course, and carry's a permit on them as proof of this, as well as I.D. Numbers that will leave electronic fingerprints and thus proof that that person has gone through those courses.
Yes, Accidents will always happen, but the same could be said for car accidents. Why don't we just forbid people to drive? Oh yeah, then there are people who drown in swimming accidents, I guess people shouldn't be allowed to swim either. Hell, while we're at it, why don't we just kill everyone so that way we prevent all these accidents ahead of time? You really should stop and question your beliefs instead of just blurting out the bullshit your peers feed you. I live in a dominantly Liberal Area, and my grandfather is a right wing extremist, so I gotta hear bullshit from both sides shoved down my throat, thus I've come to hate them both, but that doesn't mean I can't think for myself what's right and wrong, you should do the same.

ok misunderstood you. But the gun is tool to kill a car is not. The car have a meaningfull purpose to get poeple around the gont dont, In Denmark a kid could not get his fingers on a full-automatic machine gun as the kid in Colombine. look at Europe here we dont use them. But the main problem i have about the very lose gun control in USA ,is guns have become a normal thing to have which i think is fucked up. My grandfather too was pretty rightwing... and so what? i have choosen what i belive in...

A gun is a tool to kill, yes, But it's awful strange how guns do so much less killings than so many other things, don't you think? If a man does not harm another, I fail to see what's so fucked up about it being a normal thing to own a gun. That kid that did that Columbine stunt didn't have jack shit for firearms education, his parents wern't paying attention to his behavior, to blame firearms for what one dumbass kid did is the same as blaming Marylon Manson for what one dunbass kid did. (Even though I don't like Marylon Manson). So we balme Guns huh? Let's blame AC/DC for that kid committing Suicide, and so many other bands who were the victims of these things : Deicide, slayer, Iron Maiden, Kiss, so many more.

Not a bad point, Huh.

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.10.2006 at 20:26

Written by [user id=1868] on 09.10.2006 at 19:52

Cool, but I want to know what you have cars there for.
In Poland we use them as means of fast transport that allow us to function normally within the modern society. If people die in car accidents, that's awful, but the cars are here because many people wouldn't be able to reach their jobs, meet with their families and so on without them.
Do you find guns to have a similar importance in the USA? Would you people be unable to function normally without them? I'd find that to be pretty odd, since around here we're doing just fine without them.

And about hunting. Are you people hunting for food or as a hobby? If the latter, then isn't it possible to find something enjoyable to do that doesn't deal with murdering another being?

It's true enough that cars are more important to function normally in our society as well, but it's also true that a car is more dangerous than a gun. But even if it's not as needed as say cars are, why the hell can't you let us have our fun, as long as we follow safety? I do hunt for food, But I also do enjoy the experience, I feel that as long as you eat body of what you hunted, then there is nothing wrong with it, to me something must always die so that we may live, and that plants and animals are equals. A person should be allowed to pursue, and do whatever the hell they want, as long as what they're doing does not impose the rights of others, and my having a gun does not impose upon your rights, you do what you want and I do what I want, as long as I don't run out in the street and start shooting you, I'm just fine.

Okay, I find nothing wrong with your case as far as hunting goes. I'm just wondering why such weapons are so popular, when food is so easy to acquire in USA.

Anyway, I think you're taking a very shallow approach to this whole topic. It's as if I had a nuclear weapon and never used it to bomb anyone and then say this means it's completely okay to make nuclear weapons easy to get. Further, I think you're putting your personal enjoyment (and right to have a gun) above safety of others. If it would turn out large access to guns really is reason for so many murders, would you put away yours as a sign of compassion to those who were harmed by this policy? Or would you continue using it because you never shoot another person and have the right to continue using it?

Lastly, I do believe this topic isn't about whether you have the right to have a gun, but rather should you have the right to have it in the first place. Much of what you said is invalid in this context. And don't take this on personal level. I mean you, as a member of human race.

Aha, and about the quote: I sometimes copy-paste quotes in order to have a better look at other posts. Maybe that's why.

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.10.2006 at 20:35

Written by [user id=16496] on 09.10.2006 at 18:53

Quote:

When I say educated, I mean educated in the ways of gun safety, and as long as we know that person has gone through a gun safety course, and carry's a permit on them as proof of this, as well as I.D. Numbers that will leave electronic fingerprints and thus proof that that person has gone through those courses.
Yes, Accidents will always happen, but the same could be said for car accidents. Why don't we just forbid people to drive? Oh yeah, then there are people who drown in swimming accidents, I guess people shouldn't be allowed to swim either. Hell, while we're at it, why don't we just kill everyone so that way we prevent all these accidents ahead of time? You really should stop and question your beliefs instead of just blurting out the bullshit your peers feed you. I live in a dominantly Liberal Area, and my grandfather is a right wing extremist, so I gotta hear bullshit from both sides shoved down my throat, thus I've come to hate them both, but that doesn't mean I can't think for myself what's right and wrong, you should do the same.

ok misunderstood you. But the gun is tool to kill a car is not. The car have a meaningfull purpose to get poeple around the gont dont, In Denmark a kid could not get his fingers on a full-automatic machine gun as the kid in Colombine. look at Europe here we dont use them. But the main problem i have about the very lose gun control in USA ,is guns have become a normal thing to have which i think is fucked up. My grandfather too was pretty rightwing... and so what? i have choosen what i belive in...

A gun is a tool to kill, yes, But it's awful strange how guns do so much less killings than so many other things, don't you think? If a man does not harm another, I fail to see what's so fucked up about it being a normal thing to own a gun. That kid that did that Columbine stunt didn't have jack shit for firearms education, his parents wern't paying attention to his behavior, to blame firearms for what one dumbass kid did is the same as blaming Marylon Manson for what one dunbass kid did. (Even though I don't like Marylon Manson). So we balme Guns huh? Let's blame AC/DC for that kid committing Suicide, and so many other bands who were the victims of these things : Deicide, slayer, Iron Maiden, Kiss, so many more.

Not a bad point, Huh.

if you dont count you presidents bombs, i would bet guns is on the topscore! are you saying guns dont kill that many people? thats absurd! offcouse it is not fucked to have a gun if youre are a hunter because then you use it to kill animals and it is not easy get and you get the permission to own a hunting rifle for hunting.
But the right to buy machine guns and desert eagles as it pleases you and as many as you like is VERY disturbing because it leads to accidents and it is much easier for criminals to get a gun and there is a lot more guns circulating.
Yes he did he took firearm training. And if he had education do you think he would care about gun security when he was planning to shot up his school?
And yes guns have something to do with this guys behavier.
Because of the loose gun policy he could easly get acsess to his parents weapons and go on killing spree.

"and my having a gun does not impose upon your rights" no but my security

Written by [user id=16496] on 09.10.2006 at 21:46

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.10.2006 at 20:35

Written by [user id=16496] on 09.10.2006 at 18:53

Quote:

A gun is a tool to kill, yes, But it's awful strange how guns do so much less killings than so many other things, don't you think? If a man does not harm another, I fail to see what's so fucked up about it being a normal thing to own a gun. That kid that did that Columbine stunt didn't have jack shit for firearms education, his parents wern't paying attention to his behavior, to blame firearms for what one dumbass kid did is the same as blaming Marylon Manson for what one dunbass kid did. (Even though I don't like Marylon Manson). So we balme Guns huh? Let's blame AC/DC for that kid committing Suicide, and so many other bands who were the victims of these things : Deicide, slayer, Iron Maiden, Kiss, so many more.

Not a bad point, Huh.

if you dont count you presidents bombs, i would bet guns is on the topscore! are you saying guns dont kill that many people? thats absurd! offcouse it is not fucked to have a gun if youre are a hunter because then you use it to kill animals and it is not easy get and you get the permission to own a hunting rifle for hunting.
But the right to buy machine guns and desert eagles as it pleases you and as many as you like is VERY disturbing because it leads to accidents and it is much easier for criminals to get a gun and there is a lot more guns circulating.
Yes he did he took firearm training. And if he had education do you think he would care about gun security when he was planning to shot up his school?
And yes guns have something to do with this guys behavier.
Because of the loose gun policy he could easly get acsess to his parents weapons and go on killing spree.

First of all, no I don't count my presidents bombs, because that's the Military, not Citizens simply trying to live by their constitutional rights. I'm not trying to Justify his actions, but in the Military, it should be obvious firearms will be present. Second of all you can't buy assult weapons however it pleases you here, there is a ban on assult rifles, but I don't think there should be because as I previously stated "A weapon is a weapon, they all kill". Thirdly if a criminal wants to get a hold of firearms they will, there is no controlling that, as I told taka, you can make them out of easily obtainable products. Maby if that kid had gun education he wouldn't have shot up his school, because from a young age we're taught something called "ethics", maby if a sense of right and wrong had ben drilled in his head than he wouldn't have been so dishonerable and underhanded, inherently giving anyone who owns a gun a bad name. A gun doesn't effect someone's behavior, but it can be used as an excuse.

By the way, about my guns not imposing on your rights But on your security, am I banging down your door? am I in your school Killing people? hell, if I saw that someone was gonna murder you right now I'd probably shoot the guy who was gonna do it. So if you don't like my owning firearms, That's just to bad, you'll have to shut your little candyass mouth and deal with it, But it does NOT effect any kind of security except for maby your Pathetic, weak, feeble self security that is only sustained through anti-american politics and propaganda.

Quote:

First of all, no I don't count my presidents bombs, because that's the Military, not Citizens simply trying to live by their constitutional rights. I'm not trying to Justify his actions, but in the Military, it should be obvious firearms will be present. Second of all you can't buy assult weapons however it pleases you here, there is a ban on assult rifles, but I don't think there should be because as I previously stated "A weapon is a weapon, they all kill". Thirdly if a criminal wants to get a hold of firearms they will, there is no controlling that, as I told taka, you can make them out of easily obtainable products. Maby if that kid had gun education he wouldn't have shot up his school, because from a young age we're taught something called "ethics", maby if a sense of right and wrong had ben drilled in his head than he wouldn't have been so dishonerable and underhanded, inherently giving anyone who owns a gun a bad name. A gun doesn't effect someone's behavior, but it can be used as an excuse.

By the way, about my guns not imposing on your rights But on your security, am I banging down your door? am I in your school Killing people? hell, if I saw that someone was gonna murder you right now I'd probably shoot the guy who was gonna do it. So if you don't like my owning firearms, That's just to bad, you'll have to shut your little candyass mouth and deal with it, But it does NOT effect any kind of security except for maby your Pathetic, weak, feeble self security that is only sustained through anti-american politics and propaganda.

Chill man... take it easy is this is a only a discusion.
Yearh if a harcore criminal wants a gun he can find one. But if little jimmy is frustrated and angry and decides to kill his teacher and his freinds in school in USA it is alot easier for him to find a gun. Or if some drunken idiots fight and the one feels threaten and he draws his gun and shoot it as said before alot easier to pull the trigger once than to beat someone to death + all the acidents with small children and firearms and people that shoots someone they think a is an intruder but is not.

Look at the murder rate in the USA and tell me that guns protect you...

Quote:
By the way, about my guns not imposing on your rights But on your security, am I banging down your door? am I in your school Killing people?

Did you say "and my having a gun does not impose upon your rights" in reference to there being a gun policy that allows you to have a gun, or do you believe this discussion is all about you?
I suppose it's the second case, because otherwise you're not making any sense.

Quote:
A gun is a tool to kill, yes, But it's awful strange how guns do so much less killings than so many other things, don't you think?

Guns doing less damage than something else isn't an argument. You might miss that part of human activities, where we try to reduce risk of people losing their lives. Cars are being made safer. We try to reduce the ammount of wars (well okay, not the USA : ). And some pricks want all those rightful gun-owning rights of American citizens removed (most likely they're just jealous of their freedom).

@Skald/Necronomicon: I'm very sorry if I've made it seem as if I'm trying to make this conversation about myself, and I could continue with you both all night I suppose, but, this really is tiring. I can see right now that we have different viewpoints and we're not going to convince eachother otherwise. You both present some good points, but I think we should agree to disagree. I'm done with this thread for a while. Not because I'm angry, and not because I can't back up what I'm saying, but because I'm just tired of this conversation which I know will get us nowhere and I am thus walking away from it. I bid you both good nights and I hope you sleep well.

Here are some stats from my stae/county where concealed weapon permits have been allowed

The latest data for Macomb county: in the 5 years since they started a sort of "shall-issue" procedure, overall crime has dropped 42 percent while it dropped
14 percent state-wide. In Macomb, index crimes (assaultive) dropped 31 percent, violent crimes 26 percent. In the past 2 years, 71 permits have been revoked,
3 for assault with a deadly weapon.

Here are soem Florida stats

Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 - 2/28/94 (over 6 years) Florida issued
204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used).



Look, you my not wish to own or carry. That is your god or Darwinist given right. You have NO..NO..NO.. I repeat NO right to refrain me or another legitmate, honest, informed
citizen who has passed training from having a gun. There are several hundred million guns in the world today and all the patty cake, tree hugging, hippie loving, Marxist
dreams will not protect you from one looting deranged mind.

As it is there may be some cultures or countries where non gun ownership works. I can tell you it aint here. A gun free society usually is an oppressed one, although not always.

Lastly ask the people of Darfur if they would like to have guns to protect themselves form the african muslims who are killing them by the thousands.
Ask The North Vietnamiese if they would like to have arms to not be oppressed by there govt.
Ask the south africans when the rebels come through and cut off hands and legs of women and children if they would not have liked to be armed.
Ask any person alive that has been behind the barrel as I have if they would not have liked to had a weapon at that moment!!!

Remember you are free to not have a gun. It is your choice. A choice I do not interfere with.

You don't get the point. Any of us tree hugging hippies hasn't proposed to ban all the guns in the world, most of us are talking gun control not gun ban. Could you please answer me with simple no or yes either you think that absolutely anyone in your neighborhood, in your county, in your country have the same right to buy/own a gun, no matter they're trained or not?
Do you think it's a good idea that you can buy a gun anywhere, or would it be better that there would be a strict licencing for the persons selling guns so that these store would have the knowledge to inform people who buys the gun?
The difference between you and me is that I can't see owning a gun as a freedom, I see it as a very responsible privilege, so responsible that not every person is able handle it and that way shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

1st question .. No, I think proper training or classes should be required.
2nd question.. this question is leading. Of course I would want the seller to be liscensed.

We agree on basic "qoute" "gun control". It is after these requirements are met that you and I and other disagree.

I will not even disagree that having a gun is a big reponsibility. I take mine very sewriously. you can bet your finish ass that I will be responsible with my guns. I love my life and
my children. I will also agree that not everyone is able or mentally capable of owning a gun. This is the job of local gun boards tom discern. As the stats I provided show. when
my county started to issue carry permits crime reduced. I talked to an officer today actually in my restaurant. He backed my assertions about crime and carry permits. People whom
commit crime will travel another location if the city they live in may have an owner whom owns a gun.

Angelique, you seem reasonable and understand with proper training a gun can be useful tool. It is the all or nothing crowd that disturbs me.

Written by Anthem on 10.10.2006 at 07:33

People whom commit crime will travel another location if the city they live in may have an owner whom owns a gun.

And that's the way things should be in your opinion?

I don't remember more than one 'story' that was including guns, here in Estonia, but heres one:
Guy was trying to assassinate other guy (some big boss/politic) but accidentaly he shots a girl that was standing next to him, how proffecianally of him.
I once again say, Ban The Gun.

Written by Anthem on 10.10.2006 at 07:33

I will also agree that not everyone is able or mentally capable of owning a gun. This is the job of local gun boards tom discern. As the stats I provided show.

I think it's extremely naive to think that you're safe and can sleep your nights in peace as the local gun boards will handle the gun issues. As a member of your community and the society you should question and critizice as long as things get better, I mean honestly you can't think that the way guns are handled now in your country is the best possible way and there's nothing wrong in it, or do you?

My opinion is, the amount of guns is not necesseraly the issue, people having guns in generally is not neccesseraly the issue.. lack of REAL control and people having guns for purpose of shooting other people if needed is an issue.. as long as there's no REAL control people won't respect guns and they're held and stored like other household tools which we all know is the worst possible way to store guns.

Just couple of news bits from this morning..

JOPLIN, Missouri (AP) -- Fascinated by the Columbine bloodbath, a 13-year-old boy in a dark green trench coat and mask carried an assault rifle into his school Monday, pointed it at students and fired a shot into a ceiling before the weapon jammed, authorities said. No one was hurt.

SAN ANTONIO -- A 19-year-old man died early Monday in an apparent game of russian roulette, police said.
Police said that Juan Garcia, who had been drinking heavily, showed off a partially loaded revolver to several other people inside a home in the 1300 block of Swaying Oak at 2 a.m. Garcia put the gun to his right temple and fired, but nothing happened, police said.
Witnesses told police that Garcia then put another bullet in the chamber and spun it and fired again, police said. This time, the gun discharged, instantly killing Garcia.

Written by Angelique on 10.10.2006 at 10:20

Written by Anthem on 10.10.2006 at 07:33

I will also agree that not everyone is able or mentally capable of owning a gun. This is the job of local gun boards tom discern. As the stats I provided show.

I think it's extremely naive to think that you're safe and can sleep your nights in peace as the local gun boards will handle the gun issues. As a member of your community and the society you should question and critizice as long as things get better, I mean honestly you can't think that the way guns are handled now in your country is the best possible way and there's nothing wrong in it, or do you?

My opinion is, the amount of guns is not necesseraly the issue, people having guns in generally is not neccesseraly the issue.. lack of REAL control and people having guns for purpose of shooting other people if needed is an issue.. as long as there's no REAL control people won't respect guns and they're held and stored like other household tools which we all know is the worst possible way to store guns.

Just couple of news bits from this morning..

JOPLIN, Missouri (AP) -- Fascinated by the Columbine bloodbath, a 13-year-old boy in a dark green trench coat and mask carried an assault rifle into his school Monday, pointed it at students and fired a shot into a ceiling before the weapon jammed, authorities said. No one was hurt.

SAN ANTONIO -- A 19-year-old man died early Monday in an apparent game of russian roulette, police said.
Police said that Juan Garcia, who had been drinking heavily, showed off a partially loaded revolver to several other people inside a home in the 1300 block of Swaying Oak at 2 a.m. Garcia put the gun to his right temple and fired, but nothing happened, police said.
Witnesses told police that Garcia then put another bullet in the chamber and spun it and fired again, police said. This time, the gun discharged, instantly killing Garcia.

Exactly my thoughts Angelique... people need to have self control and resposnibility when it comes to using firearms, if they are to have one at all

However, if we were to remove all firearms from the possession of all owners, then our world would be a safer one, yes?

@Opium magnet
In theory, yes, world would be a safer place but in practice it is impossible to get possession of all guns in the world so that way we need to do what is to do in these circumstances.. which is in my opinion, a strict gun control. If you need a gun you can have one but you shouldn't be able to have a gun just because it's fun to have a gun.
If you have a valid reason for owning a gun such is hunting or shooting hobby for example you should be able to have a gun once you're trained for using and storing it properly however, I don't see self-defence as a valid reason for having a gun, if anyone needs a gun for that purpose the problems are a lot deeper in his society and guns won't fix those problems, actually large amount of guns laying around available will only make it worse.

Written by Angelique on 10.10.2006 at 10:20

JOPLIN, Missouri (AP) -- Fascinated by the Columbine bloodbath, a 13-year-old boy in a dark green trench coat and mask carried an assault rifle into his school Monday, pointed it at students and fired a shot into a ceiling before the weapon jammed, authorities said. No one was hurt.

For gods' sake o_O
How did a 13 year old even acquire an assault rifle?

I guess it's his freedom to have an assault rifle

Written by [user id=1868] on 10.10.2006 at 19:04

Written by Angelique on 10.10.2006 at 10:20

JOPLIN, Missouri (AP) -- Fascinated by the Columbine bloodbath, a 13-year-old boy in a dark green trench coat and mask carried an assault rifle into his school Monday, pointed it at students and fired a shot into a ceiling before the weapon jammed, authorities said. No one was hurt.

For gods' sake o_O
How did a 13 year old even acquire an assault rifle?

It seems to be getting easier and easier here to get a weapon. This happened in Missouri. He came in and pointed the gun at 2 students, his principal and assistant principal. He looked at them and said "please don't make me do this".

I have a question for everyone who is against firearms.

What should I use to hunt with? I need to feed my family, and hunting is the primary way in which it is done. If you are concerned about safety, forget bows, they are far more dangerous than rifles, pistols, muzzle-loaders or shotguns.

I ask this is total seriousness.

I was raised around firearms. virtually everyone in my community was. And in the past 50 years how many deaths have we had due to firearms? One. And that was a murder. Two criminals escaped from prison and when a trooper pulled over their car, they killed him. With an illegal weapon, mind you. So in 50 years, one death, and that was with a firearm that, was already banned, by two criminals.

Now, by no means, do I support school shootings, or gangs, etc. And I know firearms are a huge part of that. But look at history, there were gangs killing people long, long before firearms were ever invented. And when firearms are gone, the killings will continue. It is not the guns we need to fix, but people.

There is no denying that a firearm is easier to use than, lets say a knife. But here in America, approximately 95% of all murders done with firearms are illegal firearms. So how will banning fire arms fix this? They are already banned! But people can still get them (hurray for Mexican smugglers!). I do not think normal civilians should be allowed to walk around toting an assault rifle. But not allowing me the right to posses a .38 special, or a .22 rifle for hunting?

Written by Dane Train on 12.10.2006 at 18:36

I have a question for everyone who is against firearms.

What should I use to hunt with? I need to feed my family, and hunting is the primary way in which it is done. If you are concerned about safety, forget bows, they are far more dangerous than rifles, pistols, muzzle-loaders or shotguns.

Click the '2' next to 'Pages:' and read Angelique's posts.

Written by Dane Train on 12.10.2006 at 18:36

What should I use to hunt with? I need to feed my family, and hunting is the primary way in which it is done

Are you for fucking real?
Ever heard of a Supermarket?

And to answer the question on this thread.

We use guns for:

War. We don't need war so fuck the guns
Hunting. We don't need guns to hunt so fuck 'em again
Sports. There are over 3400 other sports on this planet, so fuck 'em right again
Collecting. Collecting my ass, for the last time F.U.C.K the guns.

I think most people here don't really know what guns CAN do to a human being.
I'd love to post some pic's of crushed heads, killed children from africa and all over the place. But you know. Actually I could (and I will) if the pictures are linked and not posted directly here, it's ok.

And let me get a 'lil bit nationalistic here. I don't mind americans. Seriously. Come on we all suck.
But why o why is this happening in america this much? Because every damn retard has a gun.
And than you ask yourself why a 6 year old child takes daddy's shotgun and shoots the brain out of a 5 year old girl?

Be 4 real.

This is what's gonna happen to you someday when you keep on supporting this kinda crap.

Written by [user id=14220] on 15.10.2006 at 01:17

Are you for fucking real?
Ever heard of a Supermarket?

Yes I am for real.

I don't go the market for meat. Or vegetable. Or anything else for that matter. I come from a subsisting farm. We grow our own crops. 100% Organic. It is far cheaper than having to go to a store and buy food, let alone trying to buy organically grown food. And we hunt for food. The meat is leaner, healthier and cheaper than buying some chemical induced slab of beef. When I left home for a while I tried to eat precessed food. It was sickening. The chemicals used to grow them. The chemicals used to preserve them. No thanks. When I kill a deer, elf, boar, beet, duck, goose, pheasant, rabbit, fish or any other animal I am going to eat, it is 100% natural. That is why we hunt.

And a word to the wise, if you want people to take you seriously when making a comment about a serious discussion, use better language. Reading the word "fuck" over and over only makes me think less of your post. Many times it is not what you say, but how you say it. And you come off as some immature Nu Metal kid with language like that.

I hear that often so I don't really give a FUCK.
And about your chemical shit. I dunno what america has and what not, but don't you dudes have something called, uhm, Organic farming?

Written by [user id=14220] on 15.10.2006 at 01:39

I hear that often so I don't really give a FUCK.
And about your chemical shit. I dunno what america has and what not, but don't you dudes have something called, uhm, Organic farming?

There is organic farming. Didn't I state that is what my family does? But Commercial Organic Farming is very, very expensive. The price of an organically grown cucumber in a store is about 15 time more expensive than it is for the seeds I buy.

Could you please explain me in what kinda way you support guns and what kind of way you don't support it?
Because all I know is that you need it for hunting, fine with that I eat meat to so go for it.
But what about all the guns in your homes over there? Do you support all that stuff?

Written by [user id=14220] on 15.10.2006 at 01:49

Could you please explain me in what kinda way you support guns and what kind of way you don't support it?
Because all I know is that you need it for hunting, fine with that I eat meat to so go for it.
But what about all the guns in your homes over there? Do you support all that stuff?

I support the right to own simple firearms. What is a simple firearm? A Hunt/Target rifle, shotguns, pistols, black powder/muzzle loaders are simple firearms. Now, as I have said many times before, if firearms are handle maturely and responsibly, I think people should be allowed to have them. And the fact is, people who legally own fire arms here in America tend to do it. The problem is the people who illegally posses fire arms.

What do I mean by illegal? An actual illegal fire arm; a gun which has been banned. This would include assault rifles, certain pistols, etc. I by no means think the average civilian should own an M-16 A2 Assault Rifle. The military and law enforcement, sure. A firearms master, instructor, maybe. The other form of illegal are firearms which have been stolen.

Now if you actually look at the crimes committed with firearms, approximately 95% of them (this is in America, of course, I don't know the stats for other nations, sorry) are illegal. That means the massive majority of these crimes are being committed with guns that are already banned! Banning all firearms will not fix this problem.

The United States has made marijuana, crake, speed, etc. illegal. And as we all know, no one ever uses them. *insert major sarcasm* The majority of homicides committed with firearms are in large cities (many times gang related) and are illegal firearms. As I said in a previous post

Written by Dane Train on 12.10.2006 at 18:36

I was raised around firearms. virtually everyone in my community was. And in the past 50 years how many deaths have we had due to firearms? One. And that was a murder. Two criminals escaped from prison and when a trooper pulled over their car, they killed him. With an illegal weapon, mind you. So in 50 years, one death, and that was with a firearm that, was already banned, by two criminals.

Here, people are responsible. We teach our children extreme care with firearms. The use of guns growing up helped me mature so much in my younger days. I have never pointed a gun at anyone. I have never thought about killing someone. Why? Because my father, our neighbors, Scout leaders, etc taught me how to care for my gun, and what is appropriate use for it. It is the areas where fathers don't teach their children that this happens. There is a whole social-political aspect to thins, I know, and I don't want to get into it. But why should some gangbanger in L.A. who shoots up a car with an Uzi make it so I can't own my .22?

It is the social situations we need to change. Banning guns will not reduce the number of crimes. In fact, crimes may actually rise. Here is just an example of what I mean
Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred: Crime rate went down 35%, firearm homicide rate went down 37% and the handgun homicide rate went down 41%likewise, Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%.

So banning guns won't fix it. Maybe we should just ban people?

Jed, do you beleive that even the most responsible and mature person who owns a gun no matter what the age could still undergo a mental episode - involving mind you severe skematic conditions that go far beyond his control and device - in which his gun acts as a subconsious motive in order to solve a problem that seems at the time primatively basic to pursue? I'm not talking about people who have a history of these episodes because in general you can never know what will happen given the right situation...

I am a strong beleiver that nobody should own a gun at all whenever in any social setting. My paradise is that man will one day just close off forests with large glass domes and let people hunt, forests that are closed off from any public interference and force people to surrender their guns at the door and bring out their kill...or something

You can let law enforcement, military, firearms instructors and the like have the right to own weapons but they will still be used for wrong in their hands; it's just human nature. There are many law enforcers who do not deserve a gun. The gun has over a 90% probability that it will wind up falling into the wrong hands given certain social situations that evolve with the nature of man and interaction with people. This is one of the mjor problems I have with living in cities to begin with. Four people were randomly killed on my campus last year due to gun related incidents. Back where I used to live, I could hear the hunters in the forests where I walked; very scary. There are a lot of people killed in gun related incidents in Toronto.

Banning people basically means putting them into jail. But people get out of jail on parole so that is not the answer. To be completely contridictory and say it would be easier to simply send all these people to a large detainment facility where they just shoot each other instead of shooting someone who has a bright future (that adorable little teenager in Toronto on Yonge St. who was shot last year on Boxing Day right in the street in a gang related incident) instead of them killing a bright induvidual who might do some good for the world in some way would be an insane government's way out; to sentence the mentally deranged gun-totting masses to a large prison where they are trained to hunt each other to death.

im againt guns, special illegal guns, we have that alot now ehre after war almost every fuckin idiot have gun, or bomb
and that reasonw hy we here have murders every day, kid kill kids they say we just were playing
it would be better without guns, ig noone has it there won't be killings all around and ppl could walk safely when they goan out in city

@Hemlock
indians were living from hunting animals and they dind't have firearms