Written by Erik M. on 02.11.2013 at 23:38

Written by [user id=17278] on 02.11.2013 at 22:55

Ayreon - Into the Electric Castle - experimental prog? Really? Where do these classifications come from?
Good album BTW, but experimental prog, man, I laughed so hard reading this...

To be honest I only labelled it as such a couple of days ago when I was listening to the new album. But damn, while I know everything Ayreon has put out very well, I'm a bit at a loss when it comes to the genre. Of course it's progressive but it's much more than just progressive and the new album definitely has quite a few experimental parts in it, though maybe not enough to call the band an experimental band. What would you say Ayreon's genre is then?

First of all, 'experimental prog" as a genre name, it does not exist, no one uses it.
Second, I don't find Ayreon as being experimental music, Ayreon wears its influences on a sleeve for anyone to see (which is not a bad thing). The music has become somewhat predictable, there aren't many surprises with the music, at least for me. There's going to be some competent musicianship, some great singing and that's all folks.
Why just calling them "progressive metal"is not good enough?

Written by mz on 03.11.2013 at 00:13

Experimental prog=avantgarde, or experimental everything=avantgarde I should say. Could probably be the first time I hear such tag. Some bands have been classified as experimental/progressive but not experimental prog. Progressive music, at least in words, is meant to promote experiments within music so your term is really odd Erik.

Then would Ayreon be progressive or avantgarde? Hard to say as Ayreon sounds more like progressive, but in my opinion is more experimental than most progressive metal I've heard, hence why I tagged it as such. And to me progressive metal doesn't give the impression of being very experimental, so even though the tag doesn't officially exist, I don't see why it couldn't be a tag, unless you indeed would call it avantgarde. There's been a discussion on here before about this and someone came up with the tag "progressive avantgarde". Progressive metal mostly feels like a style rather than experimentation if you ask me. Unusual song structures and unpredictability are things that make the music progressive if you ask me. But you know a lot more about progressive metal than me, so you're probably right.

Written by [user id=17278] on 03.11.2013 at 09:08

First of all, 'experimental prog" as a genre name, it does not exist, no one uses it.
Second, I don't find Ayreon as being experimental music, Ayreon wears its influences on a sleeve for anyone to see (which is not a bad thing). The music has become somewhat predictable, there aren't many surprises with the music, at least for me. There's going to be some competent musicianship, some great singing and that's all folks.
Why just calling them "progressive metal"is not good enough?

Fair enough. I changed it back as you might've noticed. I sometimes take genre-labelling a bit too serious I guess. Still disagree about the experimental part. Ayreon is far more experimental than most progressive metal. At least, the progressive metal that I've heard (which isn't a lot). And the music isn't really predictable if you ask me. The fact that Ayreon has its own sound, which is easily hearable, doesn't make it predictable. However, this is all coming from someone whose favourite genres are doom, black and gothic metal so as I said I'm not very familiar with most progressive metal.

Written by Erik M. on 03.11.2013 at 20:40


Then would Ayreon be progressive or avantgarde? Hard to say as Ayreon sounds more like progressive, but in my opinion is more experimental than most progressive metal I've heard, hence why I tagged it as such. And to me progressive metal doesn't give the impression of being very experimental, so even though the tag doesn't officially exist, I don't see why it couldn't be a tag, unless you indeed would call it avantgarde. There's been a discussion on here before about this and someone came up with the tag "progressive avantgarde". Progressive metal mostly feels like a style rather than experimentation if you ask me. Unusual song structures and unpredictability are things that make the music progressive if you ask me. But you know a lot more about progressive metal than me, so you're probably right.

First of all, note that I only have heard 3 ayreon albums (UM, HE and 11010...) and thus, I am not familiar with all albums by the band but based on my experience, I say that ayreon's sound is progressive metal and not avantgarde. Using a lot a singers on an album and making an conceptual albums does not grant the avantgardism and to be honest, despite the fact that I love ayreon very much, I think their sound, while personal, is not very especial and the uniqueness of band lies in extensive use of guess vocalists or musicians in general and not the composition qualities. No one else is probably able to gather so many well known and praised musicians and also, there might be just a few people in world who can write ambitious albums like HE (and do it in a good way) and this makes ayreon very especial. In the other words, Ayreon is a "one of a kind" band because other people are not able to record and write albums similar with those of Arjen.
I agree that progressive metal can be very generic and far from experiments but it can also promote experimental attempt. I do not want to praise on of my favorite genres blindly but I think that progressive metal is more experimental than other genres, excluding only avantgarde metal bands.

Quite a few albums on here that I really hate Lol but also quite a few I absolutely drool over. A tad surprised to see Mourning Beloveth's sophomore release on here, I always though you preferred Dust. Both are great albums, just curious

Written by Alex F on 30.03.2014 at 18:34

Quite a few albums on here that I really hate Lol but also quite a few I absolutely drool over. A tad surprised to see Mourning Beloveth's sophomore release on here, I always though you preferred Dust. Both are great albums, just curious

Haha, I can't say I'm surprised. But I'm curious which albums you really hate (aside Vordven ). Most of the gothic stuff I assume?

Oh, and to answer your question: I think The Sullen Sulcus is more consistent than Dust. Both are excellent, but I feel The Sullen Sulcus is more refined/polished. However, the difference isn't that big. The difference between these two and their other albums is a lot bigger, that's for sure. Especially A Murderous Circus, which is good, but definitely inferior to their other stuff.

Written by Erik M. on 30.03.2014 at 20:23

Haha, I can't say I'm surprised. But I'm curious which albums you really hate (aside Vordven ). Most of the gothic stuff I assume?

In terms of the ones I actually hate; Decipher, La Masquerade Infernale, Echoes of Battle, Where Lovers Mourn, The Phantom Agony, Seasons, In Defiance of Existence, At Sixes and Sevens, Lake of Sorrow, and Evershade. So yeah mostly the gothic stuff .

Written by Alex F on 30.03.2014 at 22:08

In terms of the ones I actually hate; Decipher, La Masquerade Infernale, Echoes of Battle, Where Lovers Mourn, The Phantom Agony, Seasons, In Defiance of Existence, At Sixes and Sevens, Lake of Sorrow, and Evershade. So yeah mostly the gothic stuff .

La Masquerade Infernale, seriously? Because of the vocals? Also surprised to see you include In Defiance of Existence, Lake of Sorrow and Evershade. But indeed mostly (7 out of 10) the gothic stuff. I never understood why some people (like you ) hate gothic metal so much. The gothic metal here isn't totally whiney gothic metal like some bands play, at least in my view. Lots of doom in quite a few of them as well. I guess I like most genres when they are combined with doom (death, gothic, black and folk).

Written by Erik M. on 01.04.2014 at 21:25

I never understood why some people (like you ) hate gothic metal so much. The gothic metal here isn't totally whiney gothic metal like some bands play, at least in my view. Lots of doom in quite a few of them as well. I guess I like most genres when they are combined with doom (death, gothic, black and folk).

I really don't know to be honest. I like to say that I listen to a little of everything (which I do), but gothic metal for the most part remains unenjoyed. I guess it's the cheese factor to be quite honest.

Written by Alex F on 01.04.2014 at 23:56

I really don't know to be honest. I like to say that I listen to a little of everything (which I do), but gothic metal for the most part remains unenjoyed. I guess it's the cheese factor to be quite honest.

As I said more than once, power metal in general is far more cheesy than gothic metal, for example. Heavy metal as well. I can see why you would say this, but I can't say I agree. Cheesiness is mainly subjective anyway. Stuff like Ayreon I enjoy and I do agree it's cheesy. It's just the kind of cheese that matters. BM can be cheesy too, but mostly it's the good kind of cheese (to me).

Ur list sux -1 lol

Written by [user id=150128] on 28.09.2014 at 19:09

Ur list sux -1 lol

Thanks for the +1 then.

Written by Erik M. on 28.09.2014 at 19:10

Written by [user id=150128] on 28.09.2014 at 19:09

Ur list sux -1 lol

Thanks for the +1 then.

still crap list

Nice fucking list

Written by MetalDoomMaster on 05.10.2014 at 07:09

Nice fucking list

Thanks a lot, man! Will be expanding this into a top 100 soon (in a few weeks, I reckon).

You okay with #29?

Written by Erik M. on 05.10.2014 at 22:42

You okay with #29?

I actually haven't heard that one from them but I shall reconcile that now. I'm sure I will be though haha. A lot of these albums are some of my favorites as well.

Written by MetalDoomMaster on 05.10.2014 at 22:59

I actually haven't heard that one from them but I shall reconcile that now. I'm sure I will be though haha. A lot of these albums are some of my favorites as well.

Good to hear you're going to check it out. Quietus is a true masterpiece, Evoken's best album (haven't heard A Caress of the Void yet, though) for sure.

Written by Erik M. on 05.10.2014 at 23:31

Good to hear you're going to check it out. Quietus is a true masterpiece, Evoken's best album (haven't heard A Caress of the Void yet, though) for sure.

I'm about halfway through it. Pretty damn good so far

Written by MetalDoomMaster on 05.10.2014 at 23:36

I'm about halfway through it. Pretty damn good so far

It actually took me many spins before I acknowledged that it's a masterpiece. Might not be true for you, but it's definitely not an album that's easy to grasp I'd say.

You are awesome!!!!!

Thank you an infinite time for posting this list!! It's the perfect door into the universe of Metal!

Merci!

Nice to see some of my favorites here! (Crimson, Storm of the Light's Bane, Ride the Lightning, The Legacy)

Very awesome list! Will have to reference this for future album recs